Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: MrBump on July 12, 2008, 12:41:15 PM
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Relic'd Guitars - why?!?!?
Am I the only person that doesn't get the concept??? My main guitar, a Charvel ST Custom that's nearly 20 years old, and was purchased new, has hardly a scratch on it!!!. And that's exactly how I want to keep it. Why do people spend good money turning perfectly good guitars into some sort of unholy facsimile of what they think a "cool" guitar must look like???
Rant over.
Mark.
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I think you have a sound point. I have an old Strat that has been gigged constantly and it shows the wear but I certainly wouldn't want to buy someone else's battle worn guitar. I know where mine has been. I suppose that anyone wanting a guitar to look as if it is old might be thinking that they don't want someone else's grime on it and so they go for the "pre worn but new" route. Personally I too can't see the point though I wouldn't mind a brand new slightly worn type guitar that feels played in.That is legitimate in my book but marks and scratches for the sake of it, not for me.
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Yeah don't want a dented(relic) guitar...if it's scratched dented then is from me
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I would never buy a guitar which has been mashed up - I hate making marks on my guitars - Why would I pay EXTRA to get an effect I abhore?
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Wanting £££££££ + Old guys with ££££££ Trying to get the good old days of guitar back = reliced guitars.
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It's not something I feel strong enough about to rant over, but I'm with you all the way.
I do like bashed up old guitars, but brand new guitars that look like that seem very odd to me.
When Fender brought out the Rory Gallagher strat, I drooled over the idea, but when I finally saw one, it looked nothing like it close up!! I understand they're a very nice guitar, but... what??? The only one I've seen that I liked the look of was the Joe Strummer signature series tele.
I can understand people "aging" their own guitars, but the general move towards pre-relic'd models/ranges - especially the ones I've seen close up - I just do not get it... when you look close, they seem to be aged in such a clinical pristine sort of way, they just don't look "old"!!
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Wanting £££££££ + Old guys with ££££££ Trying to get the good old days of guitar back = reliced guitars.
Yeah that's the only thing I can think of that is driving it - but how many people are actually buying these things? Is there really that much of a market for it?
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i've never much seen the point either.
mr 38th has a point about older guitars feeling more played-in... but certainly relicing just so it looks like a relic is daft if you ask me.
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Yeah remember seeing a Kirk hammett signature..esp relic....was well over a grand and looked like someone had taken a bike chain to it..ahhh what is the point in that
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I know one guy that has a relic. Its a strat. Its actually a nice guitar, woods and construction wise (I havent amped it up). Hes the guitarist in my mums band. Super-nice bloke, and not a regressive player at all (he mixes van-halen like flourishes and tapping into blues playing and actually makes it sound good!!!), plays through a JMP1 a lot of the time, and was looking at engl rack units (!!!!), but he definately has an attraction to older guitars, and he likes his relic.
I dont think theres anything wrong with it, per se, its supplying something some people want. But the demand is certainly out there. I dont think theres anyone sitting around going "Well that strats pretty cool, but I dont want it if it doesnt look like kieth richards threw up on it!", its one part of some poeples buying proclivities.
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Yeah remember seeing a Kirk hammett signature..esp relic....was well over a grand and looked like someone had taken a bike chain to it..ahhh what is the point in that
I believe the gutiar in question was actually well over 4 grand, identical, bar dents and stickers, to hammets normal sig, which at 2.5 grand is well over 1.5 grand overpriced.
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I like a bit of natural aging/wearing like my Pearl has but I hate it when its totally over the top and obviously fake. I'm probably getting an aged nickel cover for the bridge pickup in that guitar as well, I think it'll fit in better :)
I've never really liked plasticcy shiny looking guitars though, cant stand some of the PRS that look like they've never been played!
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I think that if you want a relic, play the shite out of you guitar day in, day out. Have little regard for any harm it may come to (short of structural damage) and dont oil any metal components so corrosion is allowed.
Thats how the guitars that relics are supposed to immitate were originally 'reliced'. SRV, rory and co played the $%&# out of them all the $%&#ing time.
That way you earn a real relic.
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Ok well I must admit that I like relic-ed strats. One of the most appealing things about them for me is the way they play. Everyone of the strats I've played plays great, like it's been broken in, like an old baseball mit. Very comfortable. New guitars are most often coated with polyurethane and not nitrocellulose so that stuff isn't going to wear out like guitars from back in the day. A guitar if properly cared for will last for about 300 years, so you'll probably wear out long before it does. And many guitarist just don't have the time to gig and play enough to get that worn out beat to hell look. Not enough time in the day. And probably the most valid point is that, speaking of stratocasters only, they're copies of 50's and 60's strats. Something very few of us will ever be able to afford, play, or own. With prices coming in at about $50 to $60 000 it's not very likely. So owning a strat relic is about as close as most will be able to get to those great vintage instruments. 8)
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Or you could get a re-issue.
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Or VOS
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The funny thing about the Kirk Hammet sig is its identical in everyway to a typical MII except for inlays. For some reason they decide its worth charging an extra grand for it - No idea why. Perhaps different workshop?
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I like relic'd guitars, because they look cool and also because I hate when you get a new guitar and you're scared of getting that first dent in it.
I agree that the relic jobs cost a lot more than they should, and that they are often very poor and fake looking, but when it comes to vintage-style guitars, I prefer the relic look all the way!
Saying that I don't think I'd ever buy one, mainly because I don't want to pay extra, but also because I'd prefer to remember the stories behind each nick and ding, and I'd like to know that where the paint's worn is from my own playing.
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I know one guy that has a relic. Its a strat. Its actually a nice guitar, woods and construction wise (I havent amped it up). Hes the guitarist in my mums band. Super-nice bloke, and not a regressive player at all (he mixes van-halen like flourishes and tapping into blues playing and actually makes it sound good!!!), plays through a JMP1 a lot of the time, and was looking at engl rack units (!!!!), but he definately has an attraction to older guitars, and he likes his relic.
I dont think theres anything wrong with it, per se, its supplying something some people want. But the demand is certainly out there. I dont think theres anyone sitting around going "Well that strats pretty cool, but I dont want it if it doesnt look like kieth richards threw up on it!", its one part of some poeples buying proclivities.
i guess on the one hand it makes non-relics cheaper (well, they'd be cheaper anyway as they take less work), which is cool. Much like the way I always complain that a lot of people can't see past buying a Fender or a Gibson- but on the other hand, this makes Fenders and Gibsons more expensive, and the ones I want to buy cheaper, which is always nice.
Though on the other hand it's kind of annoying how, if you did want a custom-shop strat, it's almost difficult to find one which HASN'T been reliced...
:lol:
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The funny thing about the Kirk Hammet sig is its identical in everyway to a typical MII except for inlays. For some reason they decide its worth charging an extra grand for it - No idea why. Perhaps different workshop?
the hammster needs his cut?
:evil:
No idea to be honest, I've never tried it, but at the end of the day a signature guitar is going to at least be a bit more expensive as a royalty has to be paid to the endorsee...
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the only thing I like about the Relic's is their necks. I like how you can feel the grain of the wood. But that can be done with some sanding and oil. As for dings etc in the body, never bothered me because I've bought alot of used guitars, but I wouldn't like a brand new guitar to look like it's been dragged along concrete. I don't think companies should charge silly amounts of money to beat the shite out of it for you.
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i'm not agaist it completely... when done well like philkings bravewood i absolutely love it
i havnt done any true relics myself because (again, blame phils bravewood for this) i dont think i could do it as well as some of the pro relicers... but i did enjoy doing my veteran guitar - more 'battle worn' than authentic ageing to steal the BKP terminology
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I like the look of relics. But they are too expensive and they can't beat the 'real deal'.
Real relics have real stories to tell.
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i'm not agaist it completely... when done well like philkings bravewood i absolutely love it
i havnt done any true relics myself because (again, blame phils bravewood for this) i dont think i could do it as well as some of the pro relicers... but i did enjoy doing my veteran guitar - more 'battle worn' than authentic ageing to steal the BKP terminology
that looked amazing though, really suited the subdued nature of the guitar. Artificial relicing is a bit silly though, my guitars are a little beat up, but that's due to carelessness and not got any wood showing. Pah, i dislike a LOT of guitars, i knows what i like and it wont change if you scr@pe one up.
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I know one guy that has a relic. Its a strat. Its actually a nice guitar, woods and construction wise (I havent amped it up). Hes the guitarist in my mums band. Super-nice bloke, and not a regressive player at all (he mixes van-halen like flourishes and tapping into blues playing and actually makes it sound good!!!), plays through a JMP1 a lot of the time, and was looking at engl rack units (!!!!), but he definately has an attraction to older guitars, and he likes his relic.
I dont think theres anything wrong with it, per se, its supplying something some people want. But the demand is certainly out there. I dont think theres anyone sitting around going "Well that strats pretty cool, but I dont want it if it doesnt look like kieth richards threw up on it!", its one part of some poeples buying proclivities.
i guess on the one hand it makes non-relics cheaper (well, they'd be cheaper anyway as they take less work), which is cool. Much like the way I always complain that a lot of people can't see past buying a Fender or a Gibson- but on the other hand, this makes Fenders and Gibsons more expensive, and the ones I want to buy cheaper, which is always nice.
Though on the other hand it's kind of annoying how, if you did want a custom-shop strat, it's almost difficult to find one which HASN'T been reliced...
:lol:
Damn, Dave - how many hands have you got?!?!
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I have old guitars that are a bit beaten up because I could get them at a good price, and old guitars that have natural lacquer cracks. Once the lacquer strats to go on an old strat it is easy to get small chips in it, however some relics are really over the top. My Bravewood is not very chipped, but is cracked and the neck has the same feel as my real 60's Fenders. John is making me a copy of my 57, so that I can actually take it out with me! The older guitars are becoming a bit too expensive to take out. The copy will not be 100% the same, this will be 2 tone sunburst, rather than the white that the 57 is, and the neck will be a bit wider (I think the 57 was unlucky in some refrets and lost a bit of width!!!).
The relics I don't get are ones like the Nash where they just dull the finish and sand the edge where a forearm wrapped in sandpaper would rest. I am not a big fan of very shiny finishes though, especialy the poly finishes which are like a plastic coating on the guitar!
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^ agreed about the poly finishes, they (generally) feel plasticky to me too.
Damn, Dave - how many hands have you got?!?!
3, apparently... :lol:
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I don't own any relic guitars, but they do appeal to me.
Not because I think an old guitar necessarily looks, or is any cooler than, a shiny new one, but because I'm one of those people who goes absolutely mental when I put the tiniest scratch or dent on my nice pristine guitars (I did just that today, in fact). I would really like the freedom of having a guitar I could just bash about without worrying about damaging it.
I have to say most relic guitars look very fake, though, including a lot of Fenders and those Nash guitars. But I would love to own a Bravewood.
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I don't own any relic guitars, but they do appeal to me.
Not because I think an old guitar necessarily looks, or is any cooler than, a shiny new one, but because I'm one of those people who goes absolutely mental when I put the tiniest scratch or dent on my nice pristine guitars (I did just that today, in fact). I would really like the freedom of having a guitar I could just bash about without worrying about damaging it.
I have to say most relic guitars look very fake, though, including a lot of Fenders and those Nash guitars. But I would love to own a Bravewood.
I find age gives that freedom. I'm similar, in that I hate it if my guitars are even extremely trivially damaged. I remember the first time I knocked 2 or 3 square mm off my jackson (then my main guitar, now my number 3), I was pretty bloody annoyed. Now it has quite a few minor dings, and I like it more for it. Its like its got some experience. It speaks of the history of the guitar. Its about 9 years old now - another 18 and it may well look half reliced, and I'm sort of looking forward to it. But theres no way in hell I'd get one NEW like that. It totally defeats the object!
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Yeah, point taken, Mark, but I don't gig so many of my guitars are still in pristine condition after 10 years or more!
My old Hamer is a wreck, but mostly from DIY projects rather than playing - and its finish reacted with the case lining, which really messed it up. Apart from that, a couple of my nitro-finished guitars have acquired a bit of a patina. But everything else is annoyingly mint. :? :lol:
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i remember the first time i put a tiny dink in my first guitar... was extremely annoyed. once you realise that it's unavoidable, though, and nomatter how careful you are, you WILL walk into a door/wall/whatever with it eventually, as mark says, it feels a lot better. sometimes you find that the less careful you are (as long as you aren't daft and really careless), the less dings you put in things...
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Once the first major ding gets into a guitar - I celebrate each new one :p
My Viper is covered in them at the mo - My horizon however has none whatsoever except for the TINEST white spot on the VERY end of the headstock, been ultra careful though.
Some really pretty guitars should never be damaged - The Horizon is a prime example.
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Has anyone got this month's Guitar & Bass?
There's an interview with Larry Miller about his guitar collection. He's a big Rory Gallagher fan and has one of the Custom Shop RG "Tribute" Strats. From playing, some of the "ageing" has actually worn off the pickup covers and knobs. So he's un-relicing it! :lol:
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From playing, some of the "ageing" has actually worn off the pickup covers and knobs. So he's un-relicing it! :lol:
Fantastic :) does that increase or decrease the value?
Personally I like my relic'd (not heavy) Edwards...pristine pretty guitars put me off playing them in case I ding them..which is inevitable!
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Personally I like my relic'd (not heavy) Edwards...pristine pretty guitars put me off playing them in case I ding them..which is inevitable!
The Edwards relics look really good (at least in pictures, I've not seen one in the flesh), better than a lot of Fenders for a third, or even a quarter, of the price. I very nearly bought one of their relic Strats recently.
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I'd say this is about right :) Getting an aged nickel bridge pickup soon which will probably fit in better than the shiny one it has in the neck
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/tomr61/CIMG9444.jpg)
Still need to get the neck join sorted out though!
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Personally I like my relic'd (not heavy) Edwards...pristine pretty guitars put me off playing them in case I ding them..which is inevitable!
The Edwards relics look really good (at least in pictures, I've not seen one in the flesh), better than a lot of Fenders for a third, or even a quarter, of the price. I very nearly bought one of their relic Strats recently.
i wish they did un-relic'ed edwardses with the same pickups and electronics as the relics... for no more money than the normal ones, of course. :lol: and in a wider choice of colours, too. :D
haven't picked up guitar and bass mag yet, but i probably will. i've started reading it the last few issues, it's actually pretty good.
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I had to post this, this is the Bravewood, on an original 60's Selmer 'croc skin' case' I think the relicing is perfect on it!!
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I'm not a fan of the reliced guitars on the whole, though I can understand the Bravewood which is just looking like a guitar that is showing it's age. I don't understand the whole thing of looking like it was thrown onto a belt sander for 10 minutes.
The Gallagher strat (for example) I can sort of understand (having seen Rory on stage many time) I have a soft spot but in my case not enough to buy one.
Does anybody remember the guy who was collecting reliced LPs , but complained that one seller had gigged the guitar, and it may have been marked !
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I had to post this, this is the Bravewood, on an original 60's Selmer 'croc skin' case' I think the relicing is perfect on it!!
I NEED THAT GUITAR
Does anybody remember the guy who was collecting reliced LPs , but complained that one seller had gigged the guitar, and it may have been marked !
...and that guy's just a fool
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Does anybody remember the guy who was collecting reliced LPs , but complained that one seller had gigged the guitar, and it may have been marked !
...and that guy's just a fool
A fool with too much money
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I generally find how wound up people can manage to get over relic's laughable.
It's just a finish same as any other, hell, the whole "falseness" nonsens just doesn't wash with me, if someone wants a relic'd effect on a guitar I really don't see it as any different to someone wanting a quilted top.
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I generally find how wound up people can manage to get over relic's laughable.
It's just a finish same as any other, hell, the whole "falseness" nonsens just doesn't wash with me, if someone wants a relic'd effect on a guitar I really don't see it as any different to someone wanting a quilted top.
Very well said
+1 Kudos
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I generally find how wound up people can manage to get over relic's laughable.
It's just a finish same as any other, hell, the whole "falseness" nonsens just doesn't wash with me, if someone wants a relic'd effect on a guitar I really don't see it as any different to someone wanting a quilted top.
+1 from me as well.
The only "issues" I have had personally are:
a) Looking at them close-up, it's not usually a finish that I want - fine if someone else does...
b) (I think someone else mentioned this earlier) the wall of "custom shop" fenders I looked at a while back were ALL relic'd - the salesmen was trying to tell me what superior guitars they were anyway (not realising my pockets weren't that deep!), while I was going "but can't I have one of these fabulous guitars with a full paint job?" - apparently not (not from that guy, anyway!)
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I generally find how wound up people can manage to get over relic's laughable.
I guess the way I view it is that I want the bumps, dings and blemishes to belong to the guitar, not to have been inflicted upon it. For a stage guitar where you can't afford to take an original out I can see the point.
As I said each to their own, though I do not understand the attraction of an abused guitar, and I certainly don't wish to pay extra for the relicing.
I'd quite like one of the Vintage Lemon Drop LPs but I'd prefer it not to have had a brillo pad taken to it
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i wouldn't really have a problem with relics if there were the option to get an unreliced version of the same guitar (for cheaper of course). just it's quite annoying when the guitar looks perfect, except for the relicing. :lol:
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I'm with Dave and Kilby, if you can have the same guitar without looking like its been in a dogs kennel out in the back yard for 3 years for the same price then I'll take the latter. I've been looking at those Vintage Lemon drops too as they're great for the money. So are those Washburn Wi thingys that machinehead are flogging too but they too have silly relic jobs on them. Which is a shame as we're left without a choice when clearly most real guitar players wouldn't want a relic. So who wants them? Posers imo.
Before all these relics hit the market I think it was around 1988, I was looking at an old early 60's Strat in Denmark St that been gigged to hell and back and I thought it looked cool, but they were all dings and wear from gigs and hard practice ect not false. So I can sort of see the appeal from a sales point of view. As some rich bloke can hang one on his wall and make up a load of bollocks about its history to those ignorant of guitars as thats all i can think of that they are good for. They give a false impression of a working history. The perfect prop for the bullshiteeeeee artist!
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those washburn idols are relics? any of the ones i've tried haven't been- but now that i think of it, i think they've released a newer idol which is a relic- but i don't think the ones machinehead are flogging are relics... i could be wrong, though. :)
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those washburn idols are relics? any of the ones i've tried haven't been- but now that i think of it, i think they've released a newer idol which is a relic- but i don't think the ones machinehead are flogging are relics... i could be wrong, though. :)
There was a off white one that was a few weeks back.
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clearly most real guitar players wouldn't want a relic. So who wants them? Posers imo.
EVH looked quite pleased with the Frankenstrat which is an ultimate relicing job...
This is simple business - how many Fender Standard Strats can you sell? So let's create something else that people with pristine guitars might still buy. Personally I don't come under the heading of a poser, I do like my relic'd Edwards and I like my self relic'd Tokai, and play whichever one gives me what I need for the track, what it looks like is neither here nor there.
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I generally find how wound up people can manage to get over relic's laughable.
It's just a finish same as any other, hell, the whole "falseness" nonsens just doesn't wash with me, if someone wants a relic'd effect on a guitar I really don't see it as any different to someone wanting a quilted top.
Took me a long time to mention it, but I wholeheartedly agree with that comment.
I noticed that on the "Indy's Ultimate guitar" thread no-one slagged off the relic finishes on those Fano guitars. They look fantastic, and IMO wouldn't look anywhere near as good with shiny pristine finishes.
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I noticed that as well (no slagging of relic'ing on Fano) - it actually had me wondering why we all seem to like/accept some relic'ing and not others...
Not got any decent answers yet though...
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I noticed that as well (no slagging of relic'ing on Fano) - it actually had me wondering why we all seem to like/accept some relic'ing and not others...
Not got any decent answers yet though...
Thought I answered twice and Johnny answered as well,
Scuffed and emulated dings are OK to me
Totally and artifically fecked are NOT.
The Fanos fell into the former
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I noticed that as well (no slagging of relic'ing on Fano) - it actually had me wondering why we all seem to like/accept some relic'ing and not others...
Not got any decent answers yet though...
Thought I answered twice and Johnny answered as well,
Scuffed and emulated dings are OK to me
Totally and artifically fecked are NOT.
The Fanos fell into the former
Sorry, you did indeed. I was musing on a more philosophical level and I meant that I hadn't come up with any "deep truths" yet!! (and I don't think I'm going to :D)
I pretty much agree with you and Johnny - but what those Fanos started me wondering was where is that magical dividing line that makes some relic'ing seem "artificial" and some not? :roll: It seems the majority of us (on here) would probably make the same sort of judgement on a particular guitar's state of "degeneration" if it was put in front of us... but why? Why do we accept some fakes and not others?
I'm still not sure I've made myself clear there :lol:
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Sorry, you did indeed. I was musing on a more philosophical level and I meant that I hadn't come up with any "deep truths" yet!! (and I don't think I'm going to :D)
I pretty much agree with you and Johnny - but what those Fanos started me wondering was where is that magical dividing line that makes some relic'ing seem "artificial" and some not? :roll: It seems the majority of us (on here) would probably make the same sort of judgement on a particular guitar's state of "degeneration" if it was put in front of us... but why? Why do we accept some fakes and not others?
I'm still not sure I've made myself clear there :lol:
You are hopeful if you want any universal truths (even the truth "pain isn't fun" dosn't even apply to everybody :?)
Where does OK meet dislike, where it is simply overdone (think permatanned TV personalities that look like Oompa Lompas (spelling))
If I was a gigging musician and had an original 63 strat, I wouldn't be using it outside of the house (or studio), I would have something similar fro the live work. Being a sad individual, if I had a good copy made and it was mint, I would keep that in the house too as I hate marks on anything that I own (therefore requiring yet another guitar, repeat ad infinitum). Whereas if it was a bit aged I would personally not be nearly so precious about it and another scuff or ding would simply add to it's character.
Played to death guitars are fine (hello Mr Gallagher) and even copies of them are sort of OK for those who are real fans (though personally I woudn't bother).
I believe a Mr K Richards was responsible for this stuff, and I can understand his reasoning. People expect him to be playing one of his original teles on stage (and on TV) rather than one straight from the Fender factory (looking all shiney and new.) But again thats all image and I have to be honest and say that Keef with a brand new looking guitar would be upsetting to me.
Yeah by all means companys can offer heavily marked guitars, but please offer the same guitar in a mint condition too.
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I believe a Mr K Richards was responsible for this stuff, and I can understand his reasoning. People expect him to be playing one of his original teles on stage (and on TV) rather than one straight from the Fender factory (looking all shiney and new.) But again thats all image and I have to be honest and say that Keef with a brand new looking guitar would be upsetting to me.
There's that oft-repeated story (or myth?) that when Keith buys a new guitar he hands it to a roadie and says "play that for a couple of years and then bring it back".
Going back to Rory Gallagher's Strat, what's always amazed me is how wonderfully knackered that guitar got in a short space of time. It's 47 years old now, but it looks very nearly as battered on the covers of Irish Tour or Against The Grain, or even in the Taste days when it was nearly new! He really must have had acid in his sweat! :)
Incidentally, I saw one of the RG Tribute Strats up close and I thought the ageing of the paintwork looked very fake indeed.
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Going back to Rory Gallagher's Strat, what's always amazed me is how wonderfully knackered that guitar got in a short space of time. It's 47 years old now, but it looks very nearly as battered on the covers of Irish Tour or Against The Grain, or even in the Taste days when it was nearly new! He really must have had acid in his sweat! :)
Incidentally, I saw one of the RG Tribute Strats up close and I thought the ageing of the paintwork looked very fake indeed.
I read somewhere that Rory had abnormally acidic sweat actually :P Yummy... Made one hell of a cool looking and distinctive guitar though!
I'd have to agree about the tribute Rory strats though - they look pretty Disneyland. The relic work on those guitars is worse than what you find on £100 Vintages; it looks like people have just stuck a few sunburst coloured stickers on a strat that's been stained a greyish brown.
EDIT: Did anyone else see the original Rory Strat at that Harrods exhibition? It was awesome!
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Incidentally, I saw one of the RG Tribute Strats up close and I thought the ageing of the paintwork looked very fake indeed.
Which model as I think there where two releases, the expensive one and then the hidiously expensive master shop one.
Johnny:
I think Eddie looked happy cos everytime he looked at them he saw dollar bills flying at him.
Though that said it looked like a pretty accurate copy (cosmetically anyway)
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Same here on the RG strat - I was very disappointed when I saw one close up. The cracks in the scratch-plate were painted on, for example! And the finish, hmmm...
I've got a picture somewhere (b&w) of him with it when it had paint - I think it was a pic of the Fontana or Impact showband, (whichever was first?).
Philly, if you're thinking of the remastered CD cover for Irish Tour - that's a late 70's early 80's pic (REALLY annoyed me how his brother repackaged and generally mangled the entire cannon a few years... :x - that's my "Rant No 1"!! and DO NOT GET ME STARTED on what he did to Jinx - can we have the original album back please, Mr DG, now that you've F'd it good and proper by mixing up out-of-time accoustic guitars that Rory obviously mixed down/out cos he didn't think they worked??? - stop fannying about!! very shoddy and upsetting work).
Deep breath...
But yeah, when I first saw him in 1980, the strat hadn't changed much in the previous 5 years - it suffered quite a bit more after that. I saw him in one gig where there was a load of gaffa tape holding the scratchplate on!! I understand that it got nicked and turned up under a hedgerow somewhere, and was never quite the same again.
I heard him say somewhere that, early on, his use of a harmonica rack caused a lot of the initial damage. And I heard too that he had acid sweat (I do, it rots strings something terrible).
But he did used to do a fair amount of kicking it around the stage as well, or banging it on the drum riser to make a point!! (That's one (a very minor one) of the reasons why I like strats, you can really mistreat them in a rock and roll frenzy (:roll:) and still get to finish the set with them, usually in tune... Try that with an SG and it's busted pretty quick. Try it with an LP and you'll do a lot of damage - possibly to yourself!!).
Up close, his looked like it had suffered some sort of fire damage to the finish (Jimi borrowed it one night mebbe? :lol:). Another possibility that I've wondered in recent years is that perhaps the finish wasn't actually that good in the first place, so it fell off quite naturally? I suspect that the finish on my 62 re-issue, if I started gigging, would go pretty quickly, and when it does, it's going to come off in chunks like worn paint on a door-frame.
And Kilby, you're right about looking for truths!!
Funnily enough though, and I never realised this until I read your post, if I was still gigging, and if I had a real 62 or wotever, I would take it out and play it. I tend not to look at things in terms of "re-sell value" (possibly cos I never sell anything), so I wouldn't be worried about damaging that value - if it was cute, sounded cute, I'd want to play it in public. (What I wouldn't do is pay the asking price to get one in the first place!! :lol:)
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Did anyone else see the original Rory Strat at that Harrods exhibition? It was awesome!
Nope :(
But I have touched it three times - once on the headstock, once on the bare wood above the scratchplate, and once... "he let me strum it"!!! :D
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Funnily enough though, and I never realised this until I read your post, if I was still gigging, and if I had a real 62 or wotever, I would take it out and play it. I tend not to look at things in terms of "re-sell value" (possibly cos I never sell anything), so I wouldn't be worried about damaging that value - if it was cute, sounded cute, I'd want to play it in public. (What I wouldn't do is pay the asking price to get one in the first place!! :lol:)
It wouldn't be resale value that would stop me playing it on stage, but simply it being stolen or seriously damaged.
However if I gigged I'm sure that I would wish to play something familiar & comfortable, therefore some form of ageing would make sense, without being too prescious over scratches & the like
I also wish that Donal would either keep his hands off the back catalogue, or get somebody who knows what theyre doing to take control of the process.
As for his guitar I only ever saw it onstage (about 20 times :)) however friends who watched Taste in the Maritime hotel always said it was always battered.
The funny thing is though thinking about it you always recognised it as Gallagher, even his acoustic playing had the Gallagher tone.
Damn I miss his gigs
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I also wish that Donal would either keep his hands off the back catalogue, or get somebody who knows what theyre doing to take control of the process.
I'm really glad you said that - I try not to state my opinions too strongly on public forums (even face-to-face I can be misinterpreted as arrogant!!) and I was a little concerned that I'd got carried away there...
I do feel really quite strongly about what's happened to the back catalogue though. It's not like he was a deity or they're holy relics or anything. I liked what he did and what he put out, even if it was a little flawed. And he was such a perfectionist - he KNEW those accoustics were there on Bourbon, he KNEW they didn't lock tightly with the track, he decided to mix them out rather than re-record them... Donal's heart's in the right place, but it hasn't made it "more commercial" it sounds badly played!!!
I'm not fussed about the 5.1 remixed boxed set thingy a while back - I've never even heard it and saw no need to get it personally. But I do miss the original cover art on the albums. Especially Top Priority, and somehow TP doesn't sound the same, can't spot what it is though. Photo Finish's remix is a bit surprising in places, but overall an improvement over the original boxy sound - and rumour has it that Rory was interested in remixing that one. Against the Grain is missing some stuff, I think it's a vocal track(?) on Lost at Sea, can't remember... there's loads of little niggles... but Jinx really took the biscuit.
I've just realised, it's stopped me listening to him!!! :(
That decides it - I know which LPs are getting the digital "scratches-n-all" conversion next!
Damn I miss his gigs
+1 :cry:
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Philly, if you're thinking of the remastered CD cover for Irish Tour - that's a late 70's early 80's pic (REALLY annoyed me how his brother repackaged and generally mangled the entire cannon a few years...
Not sure Andy, I probably am thinking of the remastered CD cover. But my copy of Against The Grain is an original piece of mid-'70s vinyl, and the Strat looks much the same on that - including a big patch of mould(?) on the scratchplate between the bridge and bridge pickup! :lol:
I don't have a lot of Rory material to be honest, but I remember spending hours staring at that cover when I was a kid - I couldn't understand how a guitar could get into that state!
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But my copy of Against The Grain is an original piece of mid-'70s vinyl, and the Strat looks much the same on that - including a big patch of mould(?) on the scratchplate between the bridge and bridge pickup! :lol:
I don't have a lot of Rory material to be honest, but I remember spending hours staring at that cover when I was a kid - I couldn't understand how a guitar could get into that state!
Same here - what a gorgeous cover it is...
And while I was admiring it, I was wondering why my JV strat wasn't deteriorating quite so satisfyingly... I was playing 2-3 hour gigs once or twice a week, but it wouldn't even scratch!! I had the mould, the blood stains (I think that helps the mould to grow!), the krud build up around screws, etc, etc, but the scratchplate stayed white underneath it all, and the only dings were major dents from re-arranging the stage/ceiling/pa with it during the finale/encore...
In fact, the biggest area of wear was the frets (lots of grooves from doing obscene things to the mic stand during a histrionic Hey Joe). There used to be a little group of girls that always gathered around my monitors halfway through the second set, I didn't realise why until my girlfriend explained it to me after 6-12 months or so! Ah, the innocence of youth - there was I, doing my level best to be erotic and provocative, and it never crossed my mind it might actually work!! I fancied all of them, and it turns out I could have had any one, or possibly even all, of them... :roll:
Er... I've forgotten, what was this thread about again?
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Er... I've forgotten, what was this thread about again?
Never mind, I don't want to interrupt your reverie! :lol:
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those washburn idols are relics? any of the ones i've tried haven't been- but now that i think of it, i think they've released a newer idol which is a relic- but i don't think the ones machinehead are flogging are relics... i could be wrong, though. :)
There was a off white one that was a few weeks back.
ah, ok, thanks johnny, i think i've seen that one in washburn ads in guitar mags. I actually looked at the machinehead site, and the natural wi65pro actually looks like it might be slightly aged (or burnt? o_O ). the cherry one was the coolest, but they seem to have all gone now...
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Took me a long time to mention it, but I wholeheartedly agree with that comment.
I noticed that on the "Indy's Ultimate guitar" thread no-one slagged off the relic finishes on those Fano guitars. They look fantastic, and IMO wouldn't look anywhere near as good with shiny pristine finishes.
i'm not too worried either. as i said earlier, if it makes the non-relics cheaper, i'm all for that! :lol:
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Some of you may remember that I too have played the real RG Strat but I should also say that it was a sneaky play whilst the guitar was undergoing some bench work at a shop where my mate worked.We were forbidden to touch it but we figured that it was in a state that there is no way we could have made it worse.This bears out what others have said in that the guitar was in a poor state fairly quickly. As for the Fano's, I was commenting on the design and specification. I really am not bothered too much by relics, I just wouldn't want one myself. Maybe one of Fender's closet guitars( ooh er missus). I am not too fond of some colours on guitars but if there was an unmissible bargain then I would overlook my own tatses if it suited me.
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then I would overlook my own tatses if it suited me.
Sorry to bring nothing to this discussion, but you just cheered me up immensely with that typo!
Roo
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Can't blame alcohol tonight either!
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That just means you need to drink more so you can use that as a backup excuse if you've ran out of others. :)
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I believe a Mr K Richards was responsible for this stuff, and I can understand his reasoning. People expect him to be playing one of his original teles on stage (and on TV) rather than one straight from the Fender factory (looking all shiney and new.) But again thats all image and I have to be honest and say that Keef with a brand new looking guitar would be upsetting to me.
Sometimes I think Keef looks like he's been relic'd.
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I do have some old guitars and it has got to the point where I really can't take them out to gig with (though having said that I do play my 66 P-bass out!). They are now just for recording and playing at home. I know that they feel great, but AndyR, if you had a £10,000 guitar and it was nicked or damaged at a gig, wouldn't you be gutted? My 64 Bravewood feels and looks very like my real 63. I'll take a picture of them both together so you can see. Using the Bravewood makes much more sense because it is replaceable (though it takes an age to get them!!). John will make them with a perfect finish, but the point is that a 64 wouldn't have a perfect finish. All of my old guitars have lacquer cracks, where the finish has fine cracks in it from the different movement of the wood to the lacquer over the years. I think it looks great acutally! The Bravewoods (and also some custom made LP relics that I have played), have this and it makes them look more beded in. You also don't have to worry if you bang them and put a ding into them. The ones that look cr@p are the ones that have just been sanded.
btw. Donal is a very nice guy. I have been to his house in Chelsea a few times, and he really does want to do the best for Rory and his fans. He was going to try to put out some reissue vinyl, but I don't know where that project is now, since I've moved back to the States.
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btw. Donal is a very nice guy. I have been to his house in Chelsea a few times, and he really does want to do the best for Rory and his fans. He was going to try to put out some reissue vinyl, but I don't know where that project is now, since I've moved back to the States.
Having read interviews with him he seems to be a decent chap I don't doubt his sincerity either. But from what I have heard of the remastered versions, I'd rather he got somebody else to do the job as I found the 'new' versions pretty horrid, and used his experiance to make sure that the original spirit of the tracks where preserved.
For me it's not a case of the originals being perfection, and should be left alone, but they should atleast be as good as the original. Possibly Donal is a little too close to the material, or perhaps he wants to update it to something more modern to bring Rorys name up to date, I don't know, but for me it hasnt been too successful for me :(
But so far I havn't been impressed and I really wanted to be :( as Rory was (and is) my favourite white blues player) he wasn't about perfection and slickness and I liked that so much.
Anyway back to relics (preferbly matured and not the fecked ones)
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I believe a Mr K Richards was responsible for this stuff, and I can understand his reasoning. People expect him to be playing one of his original teles on stage (and on TV) rather than one straight from the Fender factory (looking all shiney and new.) But again thats all image and I have to be honest and say that Keef with a brand new looking guitar would be upsetting to me.
Sometimes I think Keef looks like he's been relic'd.
Yeah, but he is without a doubt an ORIGINAL!
I remember reading once that Cliff Richard had a picture in his attic that, strangely enough, aged instead of Cliff himself.
That picture was said to resemble Keef...
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I believe a Mr K Richards was responsible for this stuff, and I can understand his reasoning. People expect him to be playing one of his original teles on stage (and on TV) rather than one straight from the Fender factory (looking all shiney and new.) But again thats all image and I have to be honest and say that Keef with a brand new looking guitar would be upsetting to me.
Sometimes I think Keef looks like he's been relic'd.
Yeah, but he is without a doubt an ORIGINAL!
I remember reading once that Cliff Richard had a picture in his attic that, strangely enough, aged instead of Cliff himself.
That picture was said to resemble Keef...
You mean Keef is aging for two?
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at least two...
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Sometimes I think Keef looks like he's been relic'd.
:lol:
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I know that they feel great, but AndyR, if you had a £10,000 guitar and it was nicked or damaged at a gig, wouldn't you be gutted?
Yeah, I might have been a bit blase about that! :lol:
I can't really make my mind up about it though- part of my thinking is, if I took my current favourite out (a fender-japan re-issue, cost me £500), I would be so gutted if it was nicked or terminally injured, but I would get over it. Replacing it financially wouldn't be a big thing probably, but it is seriously non-replaceable because of how it plays, feels, etc, etc... A different one would be a different one, and I'd never get her back..... :(
I'm not sure how much difference a bigger price tag would make to this? (For me personally that is, because, much as I love the idea of an actual historical guitar, I just can't see one being worth that much to me, so I'll probably never even look into acquiring one!)
And I think you're right about the relic'ing - we've just been to Denmark St, and I reached the same conclusion this morning before I read your post just now - the "relics" that have just been sanded down are the ones that make me uncomfortable (and that includes the RG strat I saw today), there is no way a guitar is going to age naturally like that!
The rest of this post is about Rory and Donal (for those skim reading about relics :D)
I also think you're right about Donal from all I've heard about him, but I supect Kilby might also be near the mark in some of his comments about him being too close to the material or trying to bring things up to date. I read somewhere (might be Gerry McAvoy's book, but don't quote me) that there was a lot of tension between the brothers over sound and mixes, even to the extent that Donal wasn't allowed near any of it in the studio eventually... I can't help but wonder whether some of the changes are what Rory was ruling out?
I certainly don't feel that Donal "owes the fans" anything (I've seen this elsewhere on the web and it disturbs me a bit). As far as I'm concerned, I assume he owns the stuff now, it was his brother, so he can do what he thinks is best...
But I was personally disappointed when the remasters came out - I'd been wanting to get all the albums on CD, I was really excited by it, it hadn't been possible to do so up until then. But when they arrived, they're not the original albums, visually or sonically, and in the case of Jinx, it's seriously different. The artwork doesn't bother me so much - I've still got all the originals :D. But as far as I'm aware, you can't get the original recordings on CD - they have disappeared from history as it were...
Roger Glover's approach on Machine Head would have been far better: remaster the old mixes and then, if there was a new perspective possible, include that as well. I actually prefer his remix most of the time - but it would have been almost unthinkable that the original version of Machine Head was no longer commercially available, only somebody's re-evaluation of it instead...
But that's what has happened to all of Rory's ouput :(
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Roger Glover's approach on Machine Head would have been far better: remaster the old mixes and then, if there was a new perspective possible, include that as well. I actually prefer his remix most of the time - but it would have been almost unthinkable that the original version of Machine Head was no longer commercially available, only somebody's re-evaluation of it instead...
The Deep Purple remastered/expanded editions are excellent. I wish Roger Glover was doing the work on the Coverdale period albums, even though he wasn't in the band then. I've been waiting ages for Stormbringer, Made In Europe and Come Taste The Band!!!
Coming back to Rory, as someone who has very little of the original material, are the remasters so very bad that they're simply not worth bothering with?
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Coming back to Rory, as someone who has very little of the original material, are the remasters so very bad that they're simply not worth bothering with?
No, thankfully, not at all. :D
Jinx was the only one that really upset me, and some could argue that that album was a little "flat" already.
Otherwise, most of the "remixes" just sound/feel a little different, but you can't put a finger on it.
The live albums sound great - though the extra tracks on Live in Europe and Stagestruck don't seem to fit in so well. (But all modern repackaging is like that isn't it?! You go for the one with all the extra tracks, and then end up wishing they'd put them all in a separate package and charged you for them!)
I'm not so convinced about "Big Guns" the compilation. I have not heard it, but when it came out there was uproar on the forum connected to the "official" website. I understand they were remixed for 5.1 (odd in itself I feel) and the associated stereo mixes generated were not considered properly. There were longtime fans in tears feeling they were being disloyal, others flaming them for not supporting "Rory" - all very nasty, I left round about then and never went back.
But I'd say you're safe going for the individual remasters - they are still good stuff.
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But all modern repackaging is like that isn't it?! You go for the one with all the extra tracks, and then end up wishing they'd put them all in a separate package and charged you for them!)
Oh, that is so very true sir :lol: ! I've become quite obsessive about always getting the versions with bonus tracks (hence three versions of Argus, for a start!) and I often track down Japanese imports for the bonus tracks too. But very often the extra tracks don't feel like they belong, and end up spoiling the mood of the album you've just listened to!
Thanks for the info about the Rory remasters, I may start building up a collection. :D
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Ah - if you're into Japanese imports, while I was in Oxford St yesterday, I found that there are import CDs of Rory's albums in little mini-album sleeves instead of a jewel case. And they are the original sleeves...
I was suspicious of what's inside though. Obviously, reproducing the old album cover reproduces the old track list - whether the CD matches that though... (there's a lot more info on the outside packaging, but I can't read Japanese!).
Anyway, these attractive little gems were £15 each, so I passed... :lol:
There was also a "vinyl-reissue" CD of Irish Tour (might be what PhilKing had heard about?) but that looked more like a gimic repackage of the remaster, rather than anything different...
And I also saw one of these: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Original-Album-Classics-Priority-Evidence/dp/B0018BF1KY/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1216452703&sr=1-10 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Original-Album-Classics-Priority-Evidence/dp/B0018BF1KY/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1216452703&sr=1-10)
A very economical way of getting those 5 remasters at once!
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On the subject of relicing.
I took my son to an off the beaten track guitar shop as I wanted to see what old stuff they had in the back room.
Anyway there where a trio of Antigua finished instruments sitting (P Bass, Strat & Tele) along with a 63 Jaguar and lots of other Fenders and LPs.
My son who is 13 looked around and said theyre fakes arnt they, I looked around and there in the corner where a Gallagher Strat and a Strummer Tele. He was more interested in the Strummer tele as he already knew about RG (and seen a couple of the strats)
I asked him why he thought they where fakes and his answer was that they still looked new to him despite the paintwork and none of the plastic or metal parts looked anything like the real McCoy that where scattered around him.
We discussed relics on the way home and his opinion was that he would like relics if they could fade the paint like the custom Jaguar that was hanging on the wall and make it look like the owner had actually liked the guitar in the 1st place.
I didn't buy anything (couldn't afford anything I really liked) though there where a couple of old silver face champs and a pair of Musicman Sabre IIs which took me back to the day I bought my 1st guitar (heres what it looks like to you youngsters out there http://www.ggjaguar.com/sabre2.htm (http://www.ggjaguar.com/sabre2.htm))
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...and make it look like the owner had actually liked the guitar in the 1st place.
Good grief, that's it in a nutshell, isn't it?
Much wisdom - buy him a guitar as reward :lol:
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...and make it look like the owner had actually liked the guitar in the 1st place.
Good grief, that's it in a nutshell, isn't it?
Much wisdom - buy him a guitar as reward :lol:
He is pretty smart (too much so sometimes)
I gave him my Peavey Wolfgang a while back, though it could do with a pair of Rebel Yells (or Painkillers) in it.