Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: spacetruckin on July 21, 2008, 12:28:10 PM

Title: Hi everyone...... sorry, got a pickup advice question too :S
Post by: spacetruckin on July 21, 2008, 12:28:10 PM
Hello everyone,
my friend recently got a set of BKP mules installed in his gibson LP. Admittedly i was impressed by the organic, rich tone he aquired with BKP. I decided to investigate the world of BKP further in order to find a Single coil set for my maple fingerboard strat.
The style of music i generally play is 70's hi-gain stuff, think deep purple, led zeppelin. although sometimes, i do turn up the gain in order to play some van halen, smashing pumpkins etc.
what im looking for is a pickup that would cover these boundaries. after reading HC reviews, i am torn between the Irish tours and Trilogy suites. Irish tours are my first choice at the moment, but are they of high enough output to stretch to the van halen/modern rock stuff?
Any help would be appreciated :)
and sorry to add to the endless threads of "which pickups would you recommend...." :(
Title: Re: Hi everyone...... sorry, got a pickup advice question too :S
Post by: AndyR on July 21, 2008, 12:49:53 PM
Welcome!

What are you playing through? I use a modeller (Vox Tonelab LE & Line6 PODXTLive) - and based on my experience I would say Irish Tours will do it for you with the right sort of amp/gain, (and given that a strat with single coils for Led Zeppelin tones is a little bit of a compromise anyway... never used to stop me though! :D)

I have to say I'm personally using my ITs to explore the "less-is-more" area of "gain=aggression", I seem to be using cleaner and cleaner sounds with my strat to get rockier tones (my humbucking guitars get used for the dirty end of things...). But this experiment wasn't quite so satisfying before I got BKPs, the ITs seem to have made it possible and rewarding.

I've no experience of the Trilogies, so can't help on a comparison...
Title: Re: Hi everyone...... sorry, got a pickup advice question too :S
Post by: indysmith on July 21, 2008, 12:57:38 PM
Is your Strat routed for a humbucker in the bridge?
If so maybe take a look at this page - http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/shop/index.php?cPath=23&osCsid=ccfdf9c60dac65452a08fed151c264d3

You can also get pre-wired pickguards, for a straight swap. I definitely think you'd get closer to your desired tones with a humbucker in the bridge though.
Title: Re: Hi everyone...... sorry, got a pickup advice question too :S
Post by: AndyR on July 21, 2008, 01:02:33 PM
I definitely think you'd get closer to your desired tones with a humbucker in the bridge though.

Thanks Indy, I was actually wondering that and was coming back for an "EDIT" (and bear in mind I'm in the "no-one is coming near any of my strats with humbuckers" club!!)
Title: Re: Hi everyone...... sorry, got a pickup advice question too :S
Post by: spacetruckin on July 21, 2008, 01:05:08 PM
thanks andyR :D
generally i play through a laney vc30 (vox ac30ish) and a couple of effects pedals, a phaser, wah etc. i do have a modded boss ds-1 for distortion, and SD-1 for a boost. i like to play fast, and like to have every note very clear and distinguishable.
as for the zeppelin stuff, my preferred tracks are the ones played with a telecaster a la single coils e.g. dazed and confused, stairway to heaven, so no worried there :)

nah my strat is a classic 70's, and with andyR in this one. im not a fan of strat humbuckers, and was hoping to keep it to single coils if possible.
Title: Re: Hi everyone...... sorry, got a pickup advice question too :S
Post by: Ted on July 21, 2008, 02:00:08 PM
hmmm

you are asking too much of a single guitar set of pickups.

I'd get another guitar for the modern stuff, van halen pumpkins all need humbuckers.

Irish Tours are sweet and to be fair Apaches handle rock well too. See Hunter's clips on the Apaches.

The alternative is a Strat humbucker coil tapped so you could kick in the bucker when required.

Personally I am not keen on the strat humbucker look.
Title: Re: Hi everyone...... sorry, got a pickup advice question too :S
Post by: badgermark on July 21, 2008, 02:06:00 PM
hmmm

you are asking too much of a single guitar set of pickups.

I'd get another guitar for the modern stuff, van halen pumpkins all need humbuckers.

Irish Tours are sweet and to be fair Apaches handle rock well too. See Hunter's clips on the Apaches.

The alternative is a Strat humbucker coil tapped so you could kick in the bucker when required.

Personally I am not keen on the strat humbucker look.

Corgan in the pumpkins used a red lace sensor in the bridge of a strat, he always goes for single coils, albeit beefy ones. I think a sinner would get you in that ball park. Trilogy with a baseplate might work also.
Title: Re: Hi everyone...... sorry, got a pickup advice question too :S
Post by: il˙ti on July 21, 2008, 02:32:40 PM
you are asking too much of a single guitar set of pickups.

I'd get another guitar for the modern stuff, van halen pumpkins all need humbuckers. 
This time I disagree. Yes, the tones these artists are associated with come from humbuckers but that doesn't mean you can't play their music and make it sound good with a set of single coils. He already stated that he's going more for Page's early tele tone rather than the later les paul tone so I imagine it would be a similar case with van halen. BKPs are very versatile, as long as you know the basic sound you want, chances are they cover a lot of bases including some you didn't think of (for example I did not buy the Crawlers thinking they could do low-tuned brutal metal, but oh my was I wrong). I think a set of Irish Tours would be exactly what you want. Some element of classic strat sound but with enough power and fatness to handle the heavier side of things.
Oh, and welcome.  :)
Title: Re: Hi everyone...... sorry, got a pickup advice question too :S
Post by: AndyR on July 21, 2008, 02:39:20 PM
My personal gut feeling is you want ITs because they're a sort of "middle-ground":
and, er...

EDIT: And ilyti has just posted saying roughly the same thing while I was fighting with bullet-points! :lol:

EDIT2: Actually ilyti said more, and I agree whole-heartedly - with singles I try to choose the pickup best suited for the middle-ground of what I want, or what I'm going to use it for most often... with humbuckers I make it up as I go along!

Title: Re: Hi everyone...... sorry, got a pickup advice question too :S
Post by: spacetruckin on July 21, 2008, 03:09:33 PM
hi guys,
thanks alot for the responses. you've been a great help. might i add finally that the modern ish/van halen tones are only the second priority, meaning that id much prefer a set that can do the deep purple, blackmore, zeppelin tone very well, as well as doing the modern tones of thing decently. in other words, the 70's vintage hard rock tone is the tone i most desire
ugh, sorry to be so long winded  :)
i think im gonna go for a set of irish tours with a baseplate on the bridge. good choice? also, 250k pots, 300k or 500k?
Title: Re: Hi everyone...... sorry, got a pickup advice question too :S
Post by: AndyR on July 21, 2008, 06:43:57 PM
I debated about  baseplate for a while, then decided against it reasoning that I wanted an "authentic" strat bridge pickup. As it turns out, the IT bridge works really well for me, it's the first strat bridge pup I've ever used extensively on its own.

Pots I'm not sure about at all. Standard is 250, but I think I read somewhere recently that Tim recommends er... something else? Sorry can't remember, not sure where I read it. I must admit, I thought I was using 250, but I got the ITs pre-wired on a scratchplate from BKP (and I didn't specify any special instructions other than "wire it as a master tone leaving the lower one as a dummy") - so who knows what I'm using!! :lol:
Title: Re: Hi everyone...... sorry, got a pickup advice question too :S
Post by: spacetruckin on July 23, 2008, 01:14:11 PM
well mine is a maple neck, so im imagining i wouldnt have to go for something as far as a meg pot. maybe 300k?
Title: Re: Hi everyone...... sorry, got a pickup advice question too :S
Post by: AndyR on July 24, 2008, 09:07:58 AM
I was hoping someone else would've chimed in on the pot value by now - I'm really not sure myself!

If it was me, I would get 250K, possibly with spare 300K. I'd put the 250K in and see what happens. Obviously it's more of a pain swapping pots on a strat, so unless I had real issues with 250 (and I do use the controls a lot) I probably wouldn't bother changing it.

Sounds to me though, that what you really ought to do is get a range of pots and try them out for yourself over a few string changes - I suspect that what's "right" is quite a personal thing...

Hope that helps. :D
Title: Re: Hi everyone...... sorry, got a pickup advice question too :S
Post by: Ted on July 26, 2008, 12:05:37 AM
you are asking too much of a single guitar set of pickups.

I'd get another guitar for the modern stuff, van halen pumpkins all need humbuckers. 
I think a set of Irish Tours would be exactly what you want. Some element of classic strat sound but with enough power and fatness to handle the heavier side of things.
Oh, and welcome.  :)

Now I'd disagree with you!  :P 

Irish Tours would struggle to get all those tones. I've played them a lot and I've tried and not managed to get it right.
Title: Re: Hi everyone...... sorry, got a pickup advice question too :S
Post by: il˙ti on July 26, 2008, 05:32:21 PM
Now I'd disagree with you!  :P 

Irish Tours would struggle to get all those tones. I've played them a lot and I've tried and not managed to get it right.
I don't think you get the point. He said he'd like to play those styles of music, not that he wanted to copy their tones.
Title: Re: Hi everyone...... sorry, got a pickup advice question too :S
Post by: Will on July 26, 2008, 07:14:13 PM
Ilyti, have you tried the IT's?
I feel that the argument cannot be fuelled on your side by a statement of the specs, and what you have read on here.

Ben had a rant a bit back about people recommending pickups they haven't tried just by principle, I can see his point, may be why he doesn't usually say to much in the pickup section so more. (not specifically aimed at you, just the growing trend)
Title: Re: Hi everyone...... sorry, got a pickup advice question too :S
Post by: il˙ti on July 26, 2008, 08:06:24 PM
No I have not. Scratch my recomendation of Irish Tours then. I would be surprised if there's not a set of BKP single coils that would do what spacetruckin wanted. What I debated was whether or not it is necesary to get an HSS set to play Led Zep and Van Halen. I have played single coils before and to my best memory, the notes do not dissapear when you play a Page riff just becasue it was originally played on a humbucker.  :P I never said Irish Tours would give him Eddie's and Page's tone, he said he wanted single coils and single coils can sound good playing music that was originally played on humbuckers. I reasoned that when he wanted to play Smashing Pumpkins, he'd want something that sounds good and fat under gain, thus leaning towards the higher output singles (Slowhand, Irish, Trilogy).... and AndyR who has tried the Irish Tours agreed with me.
Title: Re: Hi everyone...... sorry, got a pickup advice question too :S
Post by: AndyR on July 27, 2008, 09:12:25 AM
Thought I'd come in and agree with, and defend...  everyone!!  :lol:

Everyone's talking sense here, from slightly different perspectives. And re-reading the whole thread, I think spacetruckin can probably extract what's best for him personally.

I agree with ilyti, because my gut feeling is that our man here doesn't want to sound like all these acts, it's just the kind of styles he's interested in covering (and I think he also knows he's asking a lot from one guitar).

I also agree with Ted - if our man's after an accurate reproduction of any one of those sounds, then as an IT user myself, I'd say "I think you could probably choose a better BKP"... not too sure which for each sound, all I'd be able to suggest is the ones I'd fancy trying...

I'm still happy to recommend ITs as an all-rounder vintage-hot set for spacetruckin.

I think a good illustration is what I'm going through myself: I have a very nice Japanese 62 re-issue with the ITs in it, it works really well for me, and most important it sounds like me. I have an old JV Squier that currently has the other's Texas Specials in it, and I am contemplating looking into these new Classic Vibe Squiers when they appear. I'm thinking about more BKPs to arm these beasts.

The reason for all this GASing? I have a nagging feeling that maybe I could get closer to "Blackmore/Hendrix/Knopfler/whoever-I'm-trying-to-sound-like-at-that-moment"... I sometimes wonder whether pups that have more "colour" (as I understand the slowhands or mothers milks have - from other's descriptions on these forums), or slightly less output, etc, might move me nearer to what I'm attempting.

But then I get a day like yesterday. I spent nearly the whole day playing only the IT-strat while doing other lazy-Saturday type stuff. I played in a variety of styles, jamming along to stuff, etc... I covered ground similar to Lynyrd Skynyrd, ZZ-Top, Free, Motorhead, SRV, The Shadows, Dire Straits, Thin Lizzy(!), etc, etc, etc...  I felt no need to strap on the Les Paul, the Explorer, the Tele, or the SG... With a bit of amp-tweaking and brain-tweaking, ITs did the job I bought them for... As a result, I'm temporarily free of strat-GAS :D
Title: Re: Hi everyone...... sorry, got a pickup advice question too :S
Post by: spacetruckin on July 27, 2008, 06:43:51 PM
Hi guys,
firstly to say, thanks a lot for all your posts. they've really helped me in what has been a bit of a pickup conundrum.
Next, i would definitely agree with AndyR, in that im really asking a lot from one guitar, and with ilyti; that im not wishing to sound like one of these eruption covering youtubers brandishing their ibanez's, but simply looking for a strat pickup that can give me the wanted styles if i fiddle with my amp/pedals etc right, whilst retaining me my own feel (if that makes sense :S )
god, when i put it like that, i am asking for a lot :/
ultimately though? i still think its between IT's and trilogies. i think now though that i might go for trilogies, due to the higher output. if i REALLY cant decide, i might just get another guitar and throw in a set of whatever i dont get  :P
once again, thanks for all the guys, its been very informative :D
Title: Re: Hi everyone...... sorry, got a pickup advice question too :S
Post by: il˙ti on July 27, 2008, 07:18:30 PM
looking for a strat pickup that can give me the wanted styles if i fiddle with my amp/pedals etc right, whilst retaining me my own feel (if that makes sense :S )
god, when i put it like that, i am asking for a lot :/
I don't think so. Chances are when you do get your BKPs, you'll find them doing exactly that. :)