Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Players => Topic started by: MDV on July 28, 2008, 08:41:06 PM
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Like it says.
No other pickups on this.
It is yet another intro to a song...well, I say intro, it may have vocals I dunno yet. The start of another song.
Its short, but all the better for a soundclip.
Guitar is the Legra with double screw pole PAINKEEEEELAAAAH bridge, through mainly Vox TL LE, with a bit of JD10 adding some low punch (thats mainly eaten by the kick, but its not mixed yet, so sue me). Both at the same time, four tracked and panned hard. Drums are DFH sup2.
UPDATE
Got some more done. Its more Br00talz now. The riff at 1.08 ish shows off the tightness of the PAINEEELAAAAH quite well, I think.
Oh, and I just thought its worth mentionning: none of the tracks have been modified in cubase in any way. Just straight in.
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Very Cool, completely not what I would do, but very nice and thrashy!
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I like it, sounds super-pissed off :D
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Thanks guys 8)
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That was brilliant MDV, simply put the best work i have heard from you on this site. Innovative, killer tone, and highly original make a package that is well beyond bullet-proof. That was inspiring man, really. If you make a whole song using that riff as a starter make sure to keep the rest of the riffs as fresh as that one because, damn, there ain't no getting past its brewthulz goodness. Probably some of the best original riffing i have heard on this entire forum. Well fvcking done! :D
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WOW Thats Brutal. Killer Tone.
DFH Rocks too, just purchased it myself (Well the EZ drummer Version) and it's superb
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Thank you so much guys, especially opp for your kind comments.
I'll be working on today too. I have some idea where its gonna go. If it sounds any good, I'll put whatever I've got at the end of the day up.
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...
That was scary, mate.
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I'm not sure how to take that, iltyl! :lol:
More done. See original post. Any comments?
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Not really my style but it sounds about right for this kinda thing. Only criticism is the drums, they're too over the top all the time imo and it doesnt fit or groove very well with the track. Well it sounds like that to me anyway. Unless thats the sound you were going for.
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Oh I meant it in the best possible way. And the new version is even madder. :D
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The drums, if anything, are too tame and simplistic and follow the guitars too much, IMO :lol:
Thanks anyhow though (cant be all things to all men, especially when playing weird proggy thrash crazy stuff!)
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^I agree. You need a Flo Maunier imitator to help you out.
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:lol: cheers iltyl!
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^I agree. You need a Flo Maunier imitator to help you out.
:lol:
That would suit me fine! One of my favourite drummers, if not my favourite (even after going off cryptopsy in general)
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I thought maybe just something like a simple fast beat might be more effective than all those machine gun snare hits with a few crazy fills for effect? Could be worth a go.
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I thought maybe just something like a simple fast beat might be more effective than all those machine gun snare hits with a few crazy fills for effect? Could be worth a go.
Thanks for the advice mate, but if I had my way drumkits would have actual machine guns, mortars, reciprocating saw hats, jackhammers, that sort of thing. All played by King Kong after 20 years tutelage from flo mournier, george kollias and 10 kilos of crack.
I like the aggrassive mechanicalness of it. I'm not saying they're optimal, but its that sort of direction I want them to go in.
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hahah fair enough then :)
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hahah fair enough then :)
:drink:
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double screw pole PAINKEEEEELAAAAH bridge
a bit off topic but what do double screw poles actually do?
nice playing
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double screw pole PAINKEEEEELAAAAH bridge
a bit off topic but what do double screw poles actually do?
nice playing
When I asked tim about them he said it gives the pickup more bass. I guess it offers more adjustability as well.
edit - dont suppose you can do any low gain clips of the tonelab can you mark? I'm still looking for a good modeller to take to uni and the tonelab LE seems good but I havent heard many convincing jcm800 style sounds.
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I thought maybe just something like a simple fast beat might be more effective than all those machine gun snare hits with a few crazy fills for effect? Could be worth a go.
I disagree, i think the drums sound fantastic for this piece.
Good go on the rest MDV. I would say that you could amp up the other riffs a little bit, but that is only after my first listen. I have things to do now, but i will comment later and give more feedback because i am sure i will listen to this another 3 or 4 times. Its damn good. Is this for a band thing or solo project? I actaully think a vocal track would really give the song the extra oomph it needs - you know, accenting the vocals on the snare hits a la Morbid Angel's "Covenant."
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The riff at 1.08 ish shows off the tightness of the PAINEEELAAAAH quite well, I think.
Could you show us (or me if I'm the only interested) something longer with just the guitar alone? :D
Nice job, but ain't my way...
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The riff at 1.08 ish shows off the tightness of the PAINKEEELAAAAH quite well, I think.
Could you show us (or me if I'm the only interested) something longer with just the guitar alone? :D
Nice work, but ain't my way...
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Tryed to write it right and came again :?
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Dammmn dude, this thing kicks ass!! Great sounding, monstrously tight and technical and original! Great job! I especially like this new part in second clip. $%&#in fantastic!
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Seriously great riffage there, MDV!!!
Really loving the tightness and clarity of the Painkiller - and not to mention those of your playing too!
I like the direction you've taken it in. I was just thinking about what I would do from there, and I think I'd end up in a half time section (or quarter time, given the tempo already!) - but this I think wouldn't actually work for the track you've got - at least not the way it sounds in my head. Probably why I'm such an abysmal song writer!!
Keep it up, I'm really interested to see what you do with the rest of this track! Love it :)
Roo
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the new improved version is just that, even more sick and the drums are just mental - good work Mark.
reminds me of Botch a little, but obviously a bit more thrash metal in general.
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Thanks muchly fellas!
Opp- its for a band in theory, but (I know this is such a cliche) I do, literally, all the work, all the writing, and we havent gigged yet, so in reality it a solo project. (Unless the other guys get off their arses and, like, I dunno, at least LEARN one of the songs. They're basically back-seat-musicians at the moment)
Tom - I'll see what I can do after I've finished this. I havent tried to get anything but clean and metal out of the TL yet. You can expect the attempt to be abysmal! (And as detuned as most of my stuff is - this is drop B)
Fernando -
Its a little sloppy (its all a little sloppy, most of these riffs are very new, and not entirely imprinted yet) but you get the idea. Its double tracked both sides (as is the entire thing).
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Oh, roo - you must be phsychic - a quarter time section was always part of the plan!
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Thank you!! :D That's a nice tone!
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It really isnt! Its a nice tone when theres 4 of it!!! (really low gain and thin and scratchy on its own, but thats what you gotta do to record metal - lots of low gain tracks, or the clarity goes out the window)
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And that re-emphasises the need for tight and skillful playing, which you definitely have pulled off for this recording! Just listening again, really liking that riffage! :)
The only thing I'd suggest is boosting the guitar level relative to the drums. In some sections, the guitar gets a little lost.
Roo
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Cheers roo!
I know what you mean about the levels, but its not a levels thing, its a dynamics thing - the sound in those sections is the same as in all the others, but there arent any solid attacks or chugs to it: its flailing at the strings, quite hard, but without thunk to the sound. I like the change in dynamics (another showpiece of the PK - its VERY dynamic for such a powerfull pickup) but it alters the mix too. Those guitars are in fact already about 2db louder than all the others!
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Listening to this again I'm starting to like the drums more, it just sounds manic :) I've been trying to get a decent heavy recorded tone but I cant do it, it always sounds really compressed and scooped sounding even if I boost the mids with an eq in reaper (that actually tends to sound worse and really fake). This is the best I've got:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=493678&songID=6767571
Any tips? Thats 4 tracks, panned 100L 80L 80R 100R and for the 80 panned ones I had the mic closer to the centre of the speaker. Its like it doesnt sound saturated or clear enough. I guess tightening up my playing would help a bit to make it sound clearer. Also the fact I still dont have an interface (or mic stand) cant be helping :oops: Maybe I need a "metal" pickup, though I am using a pig 90 on full output which seems to be pretty hot..
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Listening to this again I'm starting to like the drums more, it just sounds manic :) I've been trying to get a decent heavy recorded tone but I cant do it, it always sounds really compressed and scooped sounding even if I boost the mids with an eq in reaper (that actually tends to sound worse and really fake). This is the best I've got:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=493678&songID=6767571
Any tips? Thats 4 tracks, panned 100L 80L 80R 100R and for the 80 panned ones I had the mic closer to the centre of the speaker. Its like it doesnt sound saturated or clear enough. I guess tightening up my playing would help a bit to make it sound clearer. Also the fact I still dont have an interface (or mic stand) cant be helping :oops: Maybe I need a "metal" pickup, though I am using a pig 90 on full output which seems to be pretty hot..
Alas buddy I cant listen to it now, as my interwebz is being INCREDIBLY slow. Like, dial-up speeds. I'll listen when I get the chance and give what advice I can (though I aint no audio engineer! But I'll see if anything makes itself apparent to me).
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Listening to this again I'm starting to like the drums more, it just sounds manic :) I've been trying to get a decent heavy recorded tone but I cant do it, it always sounds really compressed and scooped sounding even if I boost the mids with an eq in reaper (that actually tends to sound worse and really fake). This is the best I've got:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=493678&songID=6767571
Any tips? Thats 4 tracks, panned 100L 80L 80R 100R and for the 80 panned ones I had the mic closer to the centre of the speaker. Its like it doesnt sound saturated or clear enough. I guess tightening up my playing would help a bit to make it sound clearer. Also the fact I still dont have an interface (or mic stand) cant be helping :oops: Maybe I need a "metal" pickup, though I am using a pig 90 on full output which seems to be pretty hot..
Ok, internet worky normally again (for the daytime anyway - they "throttled" me for being in the top 5% for users: dial up speeds if I'm lucky in peak hours for 1 week! Anyhow...serves me right I suppose, I knew there was a fair usage thing)
First, that wasnt half bad mate!
I did notice a few things though (good job it was a familiar song, so I had a reference point, rather than just guessing what it was you wanted)
Tonally
- Your gain level is just a shade high. Less gain, more highs/prescence
- There are quite a lot of low mids in the sound that are adding to come out as woofy I see that you've tried to immitate the low mids of the track, and you've done a good job! They've just gone a bit too far. You have been wise to control the bass though; that is pretty good level wise, but lacks dynamics (hard to get in a track without sending your levels to pot)
- The high mids are pretty close
- the highs are dulled
Playing/recording technique:
- some of the tracks werent quite in time. Not horribly out of time, but enough that it detracted from the impact of each attack, and you could sometimes hear a swish of dual attack accross the stereo field as one guitar sparks up followed quickly by another.
I dont know what youre doing to record this, its obviously in time enough that its played to a timing device of some sort (drums or click basically), but I've found that if I play a track, and its a good take, I have rather too much faith in that track, and subsequent tracks when I play along to previous tracks arent as good. The previous tracks obfuscate problems in the newer tracks, and the more tracks, the more problems sneak in - by the time you get to tracks 3 and 4 they can be pretty bad, and making the mix sound bad, but not bad enough (with the others being there too, and there being at least one good track) that its immediately obvious that thats the problem. I dont know if youre doing this or not but it sounds like the same sort of syncing problem that I had when I recorded like that (all tracks on).
The answer is, of course, to play each and every track as though its the first - to drums or click only, and inspect it thoroughly before then unmuting the previous best, first track you did that you nailed, and seeing how well they sync up. So record track 1, mute track 1, record track 2, inspect track 2 against click/drums, unmute track 1, inspect again, record track 3, inspect against track 1, and so on. This is because errors build and the timing of your tracks can drift if you check it against the immediately previoius one. Do this and you should find that when you unmute the lot, they all fall nicely on top of each other.
EQing and mic positions - I dont know where your mics are: I'm guessing close, centre, on-axis? Thats about as good as its gonna get to get the most attack and clarity on the tone, but its gonna give you the strongest bass response too. If you are on-axis, try off axis (vary the angle, see if any work) to see if that diffuses some of the low mids, at least on a couple of the tracks (I'd suggest the inner ones: keep accentuated attack in the outer tracks, but add some space in between, as per the original)
To get more dynamics in the low end, CRANK IT. Seriously. The sound of a speaker moving in wide vibrations, as in, wide enough that you can see it, clearly, moving, is what gives you that dynamic swing in the low end that this sound really needs. If you cant see the speaker, see if you can by shining a torch into the grill. Watch your levels, though: theres a conflict between the levels in pm'd swings and steady-state, open chord stuff. Control with low end. A lot of the heavienss doesnt come from the magnitude of the lows, but from the dynamics of the lows. (clearly evident in this here recording of the PK: its the source of Roos comment about the levels of the guitar: amps and moving speakers accentuate this problem massively. I address it by recording 2 inputs - one that makes the bulk of the sound and one thats got a really punchy, but muddy on its own, low end: I control the dynamics (which I havent on the recordings on here so far, but I have now after doing some more work on the track) by changing the level of the "Bassy" track relative to the "main" track" (as I call em)).
I hope this helped (and wasnt totally irrelevant with you already doing all these things!).
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Well that was a great response, more than I was expecting! Thanks a lot :)
The playing is definitely not tight enough :( Its probably because of what you're saying, the first take is good then the rest not so good. I dont usually mute the other tracks when recording so thats probably not helping.. When mic'ing I just have it leaning up against the grille because I've still not bothered to get a mic stand :oops: For the outer two tracks it was nearer to the outside and the inner ones it was level with the dust cap.
I'll try again next time I can have my amp a bit louder!
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Its quite good what a difference bringing the cab off the floor with my pedalboard lid does. Heres a quick comparison of one clip I was doing earlier (not the opeth one though), starts with the cab in normal position, then the 2nd bit is it raised. The mic is pretty much in the same place but not as angled against the grille.
http://www.yousendit.com/download/Q01IMWZJNHZwaFJFQlE9PQ
1st one sounds really dull and flat in comparison to the 2nd which I think would work really well with a bass there as well :) I'll try recording the opeth one like this.
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Alas, tinternetty no worky again (or well enough to download anything without ending up getting sick of waitng.
I'll comment (if I can) later.
Though, in general raising a cab off the floor does wonders for the clarity of a low end (worked very well for me before I got my modellers/pre amp), good call! Auralex GRAMMAs work very well too (hint hint).
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these pickups are spot on for your style MDV. Not my cup of tea, but every note is there crystal clear.
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Those clips are awesome.
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Ted, yeah, I find them perfect for tight, articulate aggressive playing. Often tempted to just declare it "My Pickup" and stick it in all my guitars, now, but I like the other BK heavy hitters too much as well!
Thanks Botch!
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master yoda, this one is MAJESTIC! :o
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Thank you I do!
Though, in these riffs, the dark side I sense...
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:D
HOLY shite!!!! this stuff is killer....This definitly helped me decide Painkiller v Warpig = No contest. Painkiller all the way.
Good song, Brutal shite...Perfect tone!!!!
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Cheers bud :)