Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: AndyR on July 29, 2008, 10:08:57 AM
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Just ordered a Blackguard Flat 50 set for my Baja Tele :D
Didn't really mean to pull the trigger right now, I was just checking out the price/options via the shop and "adding to cart" and typing my card details just seemed the natural conclusion :lol:
There's a whole load of other GASing going on, some of it centred around telecaster ownership and usage, but I reasoned that:
- I know the Flat 50s are the tele pups I want, and that I'll want them in whatever guitar I end up with as my main telecaster anyway...
- Spending the hard saved pennies on the pups now will stop me accidentally buying spare strats, danelectros, chinese/indian take-away everynight, etc, etc, while my wife is away on holiday...
So now I'm back in that happy "oo, ooo! New BKPs arriving soon" state... :P
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Just ordered a Blackguard Flat 50 set for my Baja Tele :D
Didn't really mean to pull the trigger right now, I was just checking out the price/options via the shop and "adding to cart" and typing my card details just seemed the natural conclusion :lol:
There's a whole load of other GASing going on, some of it centred around telecaster ownership and usage, but I reasoned that:
- I know the Flat 50s are the tele pups I want, and that I'll want them in whatever guitar I end up with as my main telecaster anyway...
- Spending the hard saved pennies on the pups now will stop me accidentally buying spare strats, danelectros, chinese/indian take-away everynight, etc, etc, while my wife is away on holiday...
So now I'm back in that happy "oo, ooo! New BKPs arriving soon" state... :P
Great News Andy !
I am VERY curious as to the outcome, for as a fellow ( and delighted ) 'Baja' owner - I had found the stock pickups so good that it has remained the only guitar without pickups being swapped out. I would also have been interested in the 'Blackguard' B>k>p - had I replaced the stock ones.
Please review and let me / us know the difference - and if you needed an extra earthing wire on the neck pickup to facilitate the 6 way switching ( or have you taken out the S1 switch ? ) .
My other upgrade ( if I ever did it ) would have been one of those Callaham pre-wired control plates to revert back to the traditional 3 way switch configuration - and have those large / solid knurled control knobs. I will be watching with interest !
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I think Elliot has probably started the Baja/BKP rush!
If you haven't already, check out his bridge clip http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=13637.0 (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=13637.0) - that was enough to decide me. I suspect he's working on the neck at the moment :D
I've been very happy with the stock pups, and I'm very glad I didn't rush to change them. But I already have a home for them, I might even acquire another one in the next 6-12 months, and I do want them blackguards in something!
On the special instructions I put "I intend to continue using the 4 way selector and the Baja's S-1 switch (for phase switching), please can you make the appropriate wires available from the pickups? Many thanks."
I'll figure out which wires go where when they arrive!
I'm planning a straight swap in the Baja initially, although I must admit that I don't use the phase switch at all at the moment, and the 4th "both in series" position very rarely. My reasoning is that the Blackguards might give me tones I want on those settings, and if they don't, then it's no great loss!
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The Blackguard works great with the Baja's 6 tone switching if you ask for a three wire model. If anything the Blackguard sounds more balanced in the S1 switching than the (already good) Baja pickups. The 4th position S1 engaged 'Peter Green' is still there - which is a bonus.
Its easy to do the rewiring - but do get some desoldering braid from Maplins for connections on the the S1 switch (there are two pcb like eyelets that you have to solder the wire and you could theoretically lift and lose the contact if you went in without desoldering braid - I say this as a precaution, as the eyelets are not particularly fragile).
Also study Fender's wiring diagram: http://www.fender.com/support/diagrams/pdf_temp1/telecaster/0141502A/SD0141502APg2.pdf
The green Fender wire is equivalent to the BKP black one that is soldered to the cover not the hole in the pickup's fibreboard.
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Thanks for that Elliot :D
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My other upgrade ( if I ever did it ) would have been one of those Callaham pre-wired control plates to revert back to the traditional 3 way switch configuration - and have those large / solid knurled control knobs. I will be watching with interest !
Totally off-topic, but what I'd like to see is a Tele control plate with the volume control moved about 1/2" away from the switch. I'm thinking of doing the "reverse plate" mod so the volume control is closer to the bridge, but I realised it makes the tone control completely inoperable when you're on the neck pickup, because the switch is in the way!
I think Rockinger do actually make such a plate, but only in chrome, not nickel.
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Watching the outcome of this with interest Andy.
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Woohoo!!
It's... solderin' time... :D
Coffee on, new Ian Siegal CD in the player, Andyr toolkit emptied onto the living room floor...
I'll be back with words when it's all over (and I can put it down again!)
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new Ian Siegal CD in the player
I confess I had to look that up. Never 'eard of 'im.
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He is the man Philly...
I suspect that if he'd been born twenty/thirty years earlier we'd all know who he is.
I'd be interested to know if anyone else on here has come across him..
but for now, back to gutting my Baja!! :wink:
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:D :D :D
Does anyone else get that "I'm busting for pee, I really should go... oh just one more lick/riff before I put it down"?? I had that for over an hour once I'd restrung and done an initial pickup height set up - I could not put it down.
I'm not sure how to describe the "new telecaster" except with a strange "it does exactly what I wanted, though what I wanted isn't quite like I was imagining..."
The Flat 50 bridge is just obviously stonking right off the bat. No "geting used to it" involved at all. It's got all the bite and twang of the stock Baja, but it's sort of "thicker". I'd suspect most Baja owners would immediately go "phew! I was so right to do this" if they replaced their bridge with this. The Flat 50 seems just, "more". And as usual with BKPs, the guitar suddenly seems to respond to your fingers a whole lot more than it did...
Initially, I was struggling with the neck pickup. First of all in balancing it with the bridge. And then... it seemed a bit muddy (!! wot a BKP?!!). I did a LOT of fiddling with pickup heights, mainly because of this perceived muddiness, and what I've settled on I'll leave for at least a few days.
I've ended up lowering the bridge from where I would have set it, to balance the neck nicely (and to give me the best both-in-parallel on position 2). Once I'd done that, and started playing rather than trying to tell whether it was better/worse/wotever, I suddenly realised that, right across the board, this guitar is sounding far more like I expect/imagine a "real" telecaster to sound like in my hands than it did a couple of hours ago. The neck isn't muddy at all - there's just more bottom end to both pickups than the stock ones had.
Ever since I got it home, I've had a nagging doubt that my Baja maybe isn't quite as good as other people's. It was very articulate, but always seemed to sound thinner than I thought a telecaster should. When I worked it really hard with the fingers it would do the job, but it didn't seem quite gutsy enough. But when I visited the tele forum, they were all saying "classic tele sound, blah", so I thought maybe what I'd imagined wasn't "classic tele" after all. Still I had these doubts. But now with the Blackguards it does sound like I'd imagined "classic tele", and it does what I wanted with less effort. I think it could easily jump ahead of my muled Tokai love rock, and join my strat and explorer in the rotating "favourite guitar" contest now.
For those considering BKPs on a Baja - think about your neck pickup, do you want the tone it has now? Because, if I'm right, the Blackguard neck sounds a lot more classic tele neck than you've got used to, there's a lot more "boinggg" to it! I suspect that if I'd asked Tim what to do, and told him how much I liked the stock neck, he might have suggested something else to go with the Flat 50 bridge (someone told me a while back that the Yardbird neck is very sweet, for example) - but in the long run, for what I wanted, I think it might have been a mistake if I'd gone that route. After my initial surprise - and remember I've only played it for an hour or so after setting it up - this set does what I was hoping: good all-round "old-fashioned" sort of telecaster, it barks and it bites, it twangs and does those country steel type noises. AND, something I've just realised while typing - thinking of that "boinggg" - for several weeks a while back I tried to get that tremeloed reverb tele sound (Twin Peaks soundtrack sort of thing), I couldn't get it convincingly - this bassier neck will do it, I'm sure, I'll give it a bash over weekend if I can stop playing blues...
OK, briefly, to finish, the combination positions -
2: (Parallel, in phase) very tasty, much better for me than the stock pups, but very dependant on the pup height balances. I can see how many old tele players only use this and the bridge position now... I suspect that the bassier neck is what has made this position so much better for me.
2: (Parallel, out of phase) more body to it now, not so much loss in volume, I would use it more now - but I do have a strat anyway...
4: (Series, in phase) WOWWW! This was a real eye-opener. Now I see what all the fuss is about, with the stock pups I was not that impressed.
4: (Series, out of phase) Personally, I still don't like it.
So, Andrew's 4 way switch stays, S1 stays until it breaks, and then we replace it with a standard pot!
My overall impression is that I picked the right set - with amp tweaking I can play anything with this guitar now, including metal (old skool) on that bridge pup!! Originally, months ago, I thought Country Boys would be the tele pups I'd get, but when I read about the Blackguards, and how the pups on the early Fenders were far from weedy, tame things, I knew where I had to go - even if it might mean learning to use them!.
It almost feels like my Baja has grown up, reached puberty, and it's voice has broken into very pleasant baritone/tenor with an exceptionally wide range - it can still reach the high notes but can sing the bass parts convincingly as well (except her name is Alice... :lol:)
Sorry if this was over-long, but I don't have the where-with-all to do clips at the moment, so I felt I had to get something down... hope it helps others - but remember it's only very first impressions, I'll have a lot better idea about it after the weekend and I've worn the strings out... :D
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Great stuff Andy - cheers for the review!
I was contemplating getting a Flat 50 for the bridge of my Baja, but after playing a LOT with pickup heights today I'm going to keep mine stock. Unlike you, I really like the neck pickup and I wouldn't want it any more bassy. The bridge, once raised, is now a lot beefier but it doesn't balance as well with the neck. However, the difference is quite handy.
Glad you're happy with your 'new' Baja, and I've love to compare it to my stock one if you're ever in Manchester......
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Just wondering about that neck pickup, Andy - you've said it's more bassy and boinggg-y, but can you still get those really pretty, jazzy clean tones that I associate with the Tele neck and middle positions?
Or is it strictly Duane Eddy? :P
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Cool!!! But bad that you don't have how to do a clip :(
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Unlike you, I really like the neck pickup and I wouldn't want it any more bassy. The bridge, once raised, is now a lot beefier but it doesn't balance as well with the neck. However, the difference is quite handy.
I was actually very fond of the stock neck... I prefered it to the bridge in many ways, so that seemed a little bit of a sacrifice at first, but I got over it after half an hour or so when I found what else I was getting! After playing some more, the difference between the two neck pups isn't that great. With the stock pair I was playing with the tone control on about halfway, giving me leeway in both directions. With the Blackguards, same amp settings, I need to open the tone control up to 8-10 to get the same character of neck tone. Obviously, cos it's a master tone, I might have to rethink how I use it (I might even experiment with the tone capacitor).
Just wondering about that neck pickup, Andy - you've said it's more bassy and boinggg-y, but can you still get those really pretty, jazzy clean tones that I associate with the Tele neck and middle positions?
Or is it strictly Duane Eddy? :P
Not sure how to answer that one Philly - the standard middle position feels warmer and therefore, for me, more "jazzy"! But yeah it's still doing the pretty neck and middle thing - I'm finding I just need to open up my tone control a bit more. If anything I'd say the middle is "prettier" now, I always had to tame it with the tone control before - which is probably why I ended up running the tone at "5" !
Cool!!! But bad that you don't have how to do a clip :(
I'll get organised Fernando, don't you worry... I've got all the bits, they just seem to have come apart while I've been buying guitars and BKPs!
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Excellent review Andy, very well detailed. The neck pickup has more of a strat sound, I think Phil King said something similar.
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Interesting. When I am next in a guitar store I am going to check out the Bajas -they are a good price in Andertons and if I can get myself sorted regarding a regular income I may be tempted.Good review Andy. I would like to put the Blackguards head to head against the County Boys for the sake of comparison.
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The neck pickup has more of a strat sound, I think Phil King said something similar.
I remember Phil K saying something like that, but are you sure it was about the Blackguard neck? I've just been giving them a little comparison - There must be strats that sound like this, but mine doesn't... My strat neck sounds more nasal, hard, and, well, strat-like. (But that might be more to do with the strat sounds I prefer!!)
My Baja b/g neck in comparison sounds rounded and open - and yes Philly Q, it does do those pretty clean tones, in fact very chimey :D - must have been my ears getting tired last night, but that extra warmth and bottom end that I'm so impressed with is still there, though.
The other things I hadn't spotted last night:
1. I probably take this one too much for granted with BKPs now, but the standard "chords sound so much better with BKPs" effect is there. Even with distorted sounds, you're aware of every note.
2. I've discovered that I'd been picking this guitar very hard to get the tone I want, and that's how I was still playing it last night. I find this morning that that's what gives me the extra "boingg" as it were :lol: The BKPs, as usual, seem a lot more responsive to pick attack. Suddenly I'm varying the attack a lot more, like I do on my other BKP guitars without even thinking - and that's how I've found the chime Philly! It's even possible that I'll be able to lower the action a bit now - I was suffering from "blues-player with heavy hands" fret-buzz, so I'd had to put a fair bit of relief in the neck and raise the action higher than my strat. I just couldn't figure out why I wasn't able to set it up nearer to what my strat is like - it would appear that the answer was "cos you're beating the cr@p out of the strings even for normal playing..."
All in all, for me, these Blackguards are definitely an improvement over the stock pups. It's turned my nice Baja that "I ought to like a bit more than I do" into a very tasty guitar that I want to pick up because I do like it.
I would like to put the Blackguards head to head against the County Boys for the sake of comparison.
Same here 38th - if what I play was more consistently in the country-blues, Albert Lee, etc, area, then Country Boys had to be it. But I seem to want to cast a wider net, so I reasoned that the Blackguards (aiming at the pups in the guitars that caused all the fuss amongst country and blues players in the first place) would be a really good all-rounder. But even when you get what you wanted, even better than you expected, you still kinda wonder what the other choices might have been like, don't you?!
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Thanks for all this info, Andy - sounds like the Blackguards are going to be #1 choice if/when I BKP one of my Teles.
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I concur exactly with Andy R - I don't really now how a Tele neck is supposed to sound (can't think of a reference tone) so from the start I set the neck to sound stratish. Overtime I have set to work in the the pos4 out of phase sound (as per my shoddy clip) for a Peter Green like tone. Turn the tone control down 40% and those jazzy tones are there without effort.
I should say that the Baja pickups are hotter - BG are about 5k in the neck compared to 5.9k on the Baja and the bridge BG is about 7.75k as opposed to 9k. But the stock Baja don't sound as thick. The one thing you get in spades with the BGs is Roy Buchanan style pinch harmonics - they jump out at you with no effort.
I would really recommend BG Flat 50s for Baja players who want a more tele sounding tele. That and a Callaham bridge for extra sustain - oh, and .........
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Just before I go up town (and try not to buy more than a few plectrums, maybe a packet of winegums or something :roll:), I've been playing it all morning and what Elliot says is definitely the key for me: "a more tele sounding tele". If I'd already got one of those, then I'd have stuck with the Baja's pickups for a "different" tele sound I think.
All of the BKP sets I've had, I've had to "get used" to in some way - they usually force a rethink on how I play that particular guitar. This is the first set where that process has taken less than 24hrs - I'm extremely pleased with them, it feels like I've been using them for years already.
And you're right about the pinch harmonics Elliot - I hadn't actually noticed that. I tend to use them a lot without even thinking about it - it might be one of the reasons I like these pups so much...
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Great review! :)
I'm putting a set of BG 55 Staggers in my new Tele tomorrow, so I'll see how they work out :)
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Andy! Yes, the neck does have an strat flavor, very noticeable, without being totally strat. It does have that nasal characteristic that you mentioned, but less evident than let's say the Trilogies, and the Apaches that we have. Very different than the neck pickup that was on the tele, a 62 custom reissue, rosewood fretboard. The 52 tele would be a more accurate choice. I thought about getting close to the RoyB tone, only to hear and be surprised when the tech pointed that the sound was closer to the Page tele, also rosewood fretboard. I have seen this before with other BKPs, they don't impose a certain tone on the guitar, rather they bring out the character of the instrument, wood, built quality, working along with it.