Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: gwEm on August 18, 2008, 12:20:37 PM
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how much difference is having a rosewood or maple fretboard in a fender type guitar? Obviously maple is brighter, but is it more of a subtle thing?
would it make more difference changing the body wood between ash and alder? both tim and wez have both recommended ash to me for a driving hard rock sound.
i like a nice bright guitar, but would an ash/maple guitar be 'oh my god my ears have been destroyed by an ice axe' bright?
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I think the main difference is not in tone, but in attack.
Maple should give more snappy notes than rosewood, which should sound smoother.
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The difference is not as subtle as you would expect (all other things being the same). A quick condensed history of the strat has it with a swamp ash body & maple neck up to sometime in 1957, when they moved to an alder body. In 1959 they added the rosewood board as a slab (in the normal way of everyone else). In 1963 they changed the rosewood to a veneer, curving the underlying maple too. Through the 60's there were various changes (including poplar bodies and a few mahogany ones). The neck got the bigger headstock, maple neck with separate fingerboard and then the 3 bolt necks with the micro-tilt. At this point the infamous 'heavy' strats appear. They had hard ash bodies and maple or rosewood bullet truss rod necks. Maple necks have more attack and the guitars always seem a bit brighter than roesewood, but some of that is down to the body change to alder. Hard ash guitars have a bright sound too, so the hard ash/maple combos of the 70's had some bright, thin sounds. However if the guitars were set up correctly, the 70's pickups had a nice sound. The 3 bolt neck needs to be set up correctly to get the best out of the guitar, and this is where the 70's strats get their bad raps. Fender didn't set the guitars up so well in the 70's (as a Fender and Gibson dealer at the time I used to spend a lot of time on setups). I'm not a fan of hard ash because I think it is too heavy, but people do get a great sound feom them (Walter Trout uses a 70's strat and it looks like ash where the grain has worn away). The fingerbord woods affect the attack, and the body wood seems to affect the body (curiously enough 8)).
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i like a nice bright guitar, but would an ash/maple guitar be 'oh my god my ears have been destroyed by an ice axe' bright?
No, it'll sound like a vintage Tele. :wink:
It will be bright though (if it's hard ash), and have plenty of sustain. A good place to use a humbucker which sounds too bassy for a mahogany guitar.
Other than that, Phil's said it all. :)
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i like a nice bright guitar, but would an ash/maple guitar be 'oh my god my ears have been destroyed by an ice axe' bright?
Not if the guitar's a good 'un. My Relic Tele is nothing like that - it's clear and zingy with a touch of fatness.
Maple boards make a big difference to me. As it has been said above, they're snappier with a faster attack. Rosewood is definitely smoother, both to play on and in tone.
You should try a few guitars out with both neck types and see what you think :)
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in fact i have a maple board neck on its way to me, and the idea of more pronounced note attack is quite appealing!
still undecided about the body wood. i shall go for a VH2 or Rebel Yell in this guitar. Tim thought VH2s would be good in alder or ash, but prefers ash for the rebel yell. I'll probably put a Rebel Yell into begin with, and swap it for a VH2 at a later stage.
in a way (from reading elsewhere on the net), it seems like alder might be a bit less risky choice... However alot of people here are saying ash, or at least saying its a cool option.
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You have to remember there are 2 types of Ash used in guitar bodies. Swap Ash, which is a light wood with a mellowish sound and hard ash which is heavy and has a bright sound.
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You have to remember there are 2 types of Ash used in guitar bodies. Swap Ash, which is a light wood with a mellowish sound and hard ash which is heavy and has a bright sound.
I suppose I would be interested in the hard ash.... Sounds sort of maple-ish itself.
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speak of the devil - the neck just arrived!
feels really tasty actually. the rounded fretboard edges give it a slightly played in feel already. hard to say not on a guitar, but i think it has the edge over a contemporary gibson neck.
regarding body, leaning towards alder actually due to the weight.
edit: the neck has a really nice flame to it. yum!
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speak of the devil - the neck just arrived!
feels really tasty actually. the rounded fretboard edges give it a slightly played in feel already. hard to say not on a guitar, but i think it has the edge over a contemporary gibson neck.
I'd expect it to be a slimmish C shape, is that about right?
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the thing you have to be carefull of with swamp ash is that there is no real defination of what makes it swamp ash. the best stuff grows in wet areas (swamps) so takes up more water, this leaves bigger pores in the wood and when it dries that all becomes air space which makes the wood considerably lighter and usually more resonant, it also makes it harder to finish and easier to dent. not that long ago it was generally treated as waste untill people realised thats what made some of the old fenders quite light and possibly nice sounding as well - suddenly prices shoot up and it becomes a 'holy grail tonewood'
now a big issue with the black and green ash trees that grow in the swamps and provide are swamp ash is that they vary a lot more than other woods... a tree that grows a few meters away from the ideal one may get less water so be a lot heavier once dried. Now it all gets sold as swamp ash at a premium price.
i feel you have to be a lot more carefull when buying swamp ash to make sure you get a good bit... but it is worth it when you get a good bit!!
i have used the heavier white ash as well before and dont dislike it but its definately a bright sound, quite in your face.. its good for basses but weight becomes an issue (anyone played a peavey t-40!!!).. this is the baseball bat ash
i made a jnr a few years ago with white ash body, wenge neck and single P-92. it was great fun, loads of attitude right of the bat... although a good tone control actually made it quite versatile
alder is sometimes a safer choice
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speak of the devil - the neck just arrived!
feels really tasty actually. the rounded fretboard edges give it a slightly played in feel already. hard to say not on a guitar, but i think it has the edge over a contemporary gibson neck.
I'd expect it to be a slimmish C shape, is that about right?
No idea ;) I'm no strat neck expert. I can tell you its not V shaped though. Slimmish is a good description, but its far away from objectionably slim.
i made a jnr a few years ago with white ash body, wenge neck and single P-92. it was great fun, loads of attitude right of the bat...
the characterful reputation of ash, or at least how it is described by fans of the material, sounds really cool actually. it sounds raunchy from how people talk about it, and I like that sort of tone.
i'll almost certainally go for warmoth now. thinking perhaps of a jazzmaster body, so alder would reduce weight on this heavier body. wez says alder is less of a risk, which is generally what i've read elsewhere too. pondering some more, although i'd like to order today or tomorrow.
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i have used the heavier white ash as well before and dont dislike it but its definately a bright sound, quite in your face.. its good for basses but weight becomes an issue (anyone played a peavey t-40!!!).. this is the baseball bat ash
I used to have a Fernandes bass made of ash (probably a Japanese variety). It was a 32" scale and quite a small body, but so heavy I'd lose my balance when I bent over to pick it up!
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warmoth has my order - i've bottled out of ash and gone for alder
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warmoth has my order - i've bottled out of ash and gone for alder
Cool. Finished or unfinished?
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warmoth has my order - i've bottled out of ash and gone for alder
Cool. Finished or unfinished?
Finished yes. Since they don't offer many really garish 80s solid colours (except maybe apline white and graffiti yellow), I went for vintage white... I'm sure it will improve the tone :lol: ;)
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I'll be interested to see how it turns out!
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yeah, we need pics of all the parts and in progress shots as you out it together!!!
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ok, it would be a pleasure!
at the moment i have the dubious abomination of a Fender USA neck on a plywood Squier body. however it looks quite cool. i post a pic later.
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ah right, so its a 'triggers broom' ;)
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ah right, so its a 'triggers broom' ;)
It's taken me 10 days to get that one! :lol: :oops:
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Finished yes. Since they don't offer many really garish 80s solid colours (except maybe apline white and graffiti yellow), I went for vintage white... I'm sure it will improve the tone :lol: ;)
They have the Sparkle... none more 80's :lol:
And don't get the joke not even in 10 days hehehehehe
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watch this then fernando:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jSmSTpRUeLs
the joke i was referring to starts about 2.20
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watch this then fernando:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jSmSTpRUeLs
ah - classic stuff :)
raises the zenlike question: when does a pimped squier become a warmoth build?
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:lol: a little late on laughing, thank you Wez!
(damn they speak fast...)
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warmoth has my order - i've bottled out of ash and gone for alder
Good - i've just arrived in this thread and I was thinking maple neck with ash and a rebel yell would pierce your ears.
Alder should be cool.