Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: _tom_ on September 17, 2005, 01:58:55 PM

Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: _tom_ on September 17, 2005, 01:58:55 PM
Over the last few weeks or so, and especially last night, the 3 unwound strings on my Epi LP are going out of tune way too often! I checked the nut slots and they seem to be all smooth, and I've tried putting pencil lead etc in the nut slots, but nothing changes. When I change strings I always stretch and retune etc. Could it be my saddles? They are some T.O.M roller saddles from WD Music Products. I was thinkin about replacing them with Graphtechs.

Cheers for any help!
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: rinse_master on September 17, 2005, 02:49:36 PM
If you have grovers you could try tigtening up the little screw on to of the button (not sure if that is the correct name, you know the bit you turn to tune...) other than that you have checked everything I would think of.
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: Gary on September 17, 2005, 03:01:59 PM
Are the saddles actually moving? If so I expect the intonation would go out as well. If the strings are binding on them perhaps a look through a good magnifying glass to check for smoothness and a tiny dab of vaseline might do the job.

Just a thought but we've been having some very changeable weather in London recently and it's affected my guitars, although not so bad as yours seems to be.

Another thing to think about is that I go through phases of being very sensitive to tuning when nothing on the guitar sounds right.
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: _tom_ on September 17, 2005, 03:10:03 PM
Quote from: Gary
Are the saddles actually moving? If so I expect the intonation would go out as well. If the strings are binding on them perhaps a look through a good magnifying glass to check for smoothness and a tiny dab of vaseline might do the job.

Just a thought but we've been having some very changeable weather in London recently and it's affected my guitars, although not so bad as yours seems to be.

Another thing to think about is that I go through phases of being very sensitive to tuning when nothing on the guitar sounds right.


hmm yeah I go thru them phases sometimes haha its weird. The saddles do actually move side to side a bit, coz there not a custom fit for this bridge. Rinse_master, I tried tightening those screws but it didnt seem to help much. Thinkin that maybe I should get some Gaphtech saddles?
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: indysmith on September 17, 2005, 03:19:37 PM
thought it was just me with the phases! yay- phase brothers
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: chrisola on September 17, 2005, 06:20:05 PM
happened with my new Gibson LP Classic.

solution: sell it!




or

take it to a tech for a setup :)
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: 38thBeatle on September 17, 2005, 06:20:26 PM
Stupid question coming up, are they old strings? Does this happen with them after a while or all times- even when you have new strings. My Nephew was complaining of his guitar intonation being out. When I checked his guitar the strings were months old and totally manky. Changed them, stretched them and it was back to normal.
I am assuming you have eliminated the old string syndrome but thought I'd ask just in case.
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: indysmith on September 17, 2005, 07:07:20 PM
lol, i'm guilty of NEVER replacing strings. i tend to wait til i break em before they get changed, LOL. i love putting new ones on (like once a year)because it makes guitar sound like 100xbetter
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: _tom_ on September 17, 2005, 08:15:47 PM
Quote from: indysmith
lol, i'm guilty of NEVER replacing strings. i tend to wait til i break em before they get changed, LOL. i love putting new ones on (like once a year)because it makes guitar sound like 100xbetter


same here, I always leave them on till they break! Its never really been a problem before, in my 5 years of playing  :lol:
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: PhilKing on September 18, 2005, 01:11:15 PM
Another thing to check is if you change string gauges, especially if you are only replacing one string at a time.  When you replace the strings, do you use the same type and check the intonation?  Also, whatever you do, don't adjust the intonation with old strings.  You have to have a new set for consistency.
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: _tom_ on September 18, 2005, 03:15:09 PM
Quote from: PhilKing
Another thing to check is if you change string gauges, especially if you are only replacing one string at a time.  When you replace the strings, do you use the same type and check the intonation?  Also, whatever you do, don't adjust the intonation with old strings.  You have to have a new set for consistency.


Yeah I always use the same strings, D'addario 11s. I admit to not checking the intonation each time I change strings though.

I'm learning to play Miracle Man by Ozzy, earlier I bent the B string totally out of tune for that note at the end of the solo, I dunno how many tones I took it up but it was a lot, loads of fast vibrato aswell  :twisted:
Title: Fresh strings...
Post by: Drac on September 18, 2005, 04:30:34 PM
Ye know strings on a guitar are a bit like tires on a race car-
perhaps the single most dramatic improvement you can make  on the sound quality of an instrument  that is ALREADY in fine working order w/out handing it to someone that plays better than yourself...

  If you play alot, they cheese up, fret welt, and oxidise noticeably...

-if ye don't play so much,  time will eat 'em up anyway, but you won't notice over time, like all of the sudden, your puppy is a yard high,...
-Fresh strings rock!-old strings suck!-What the hell is going on?!

-how can you fuss over good tone, & skip over fresh strings!?!-
-I need to lie down...
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: Tim on September 18, 2005, 04:33:12 PM
Quoted sting life is a little as 9hours so always change as often as you can afford it, keep them clean after use too.
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: _tom_ on September 18, 2005, 06:52:37 PM
Quote from: Tim
Quoted sting life is a little as 9hours so always change as often as you can afford it, keep them clean after use too.


hmm I cant afford changing strings that regularly thats why I always leave em till they break haha. I do wipe em down after I play though, and use "Kyser Dr Stringfellow" cleaner every so often..
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: Gary on September 18, 2005, 07:00:39 PM
I always wash my hands before picking up the guitar (although some of the venues I play it's questionable whether they come out any cleaner). I also use GHS fast fret after playing. Surprisingly it doesn't make you play any faster(!) but it definately extends the usable life of your strings - by usable I mean home practice and rehearsals. For gigs and recording I put on a new set each time without fail. Other than that, probably once a month. I buy them in bulk (ten at a time) which works out about £3.60 a set.
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: _tom_ on September 18, 2005, 07:31:34 PM
Quote from: Gary
I always wash my hands before picking up the guitar (although some of the venues I play it's questionable whether they come out any cleaner). I also use GHS fast fret after playing. Surprisingly it doesn't make you play any faster(!) but it definately extends the usable life of your strings - by usable I mean home practice and rehearsals. For gigs and recording I put on a new set each time without fail. Other than that, probably once a month. I buy them in bulk (ten at a time) which works out about £3.60 a set.


where do you get your strings from? thats pretty cheap!
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: Gary on September 19, 2005, 12:18:09 AM
Quote from: _tom_


where do you get your strings from? thats pretty cheap!


http://www.stringbusters.com/

Ernie Ball Regular Slinkys £3.60 per pack for orders of 10 or more, GHS Boomers £3.50 for an equivalent amount. Wouldn't recommend their leads (got some once) but the prices on strings are good.
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: Bob Johnson on September 19, 2005, 04:44:09 PM
Guys; you can't wait 'till strings break before you change them. If you play regularly, bend 'em, hit 'em hard, they fatigue. It's a well known feature of metals that they fatigue or "work harden" with vibration or shock. This hardening process makes them sound dull and changes their response to the tension:pitch relationship; making them harder to tune and increasing the effect of small tension changes over pitch variability.
Another major factor in tuning stability is the way the string is wrapped onto the machine head. One winding should never overlap another, this creates a spring like effect that is dependant on the friction between one winding an another rather than the linear (tangential) pull you get from a one layer winding.
From reading all the good stuff on this forum I can tell that you are all into getting the best out of your gear. Don't let shagged out, badly loaded strings let it down. Even budget guitars have reasonable machine heads these days so there's really no excuse for poor tunig stability.

Sorry about the rant but we old gits do have our uses. :D
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: _tom_ on September 19, 2005, 04:57:34 PM
hmm I do try to wrap around my strings as neatly as possible. I dont really have the money to buy a new set of strings every few weeks though. But I'll order a few new sets soon because I'm ordering new leads aswell.. Cheers! I'm also probably gonna get a fret dress and proper setup done sometime I think, maybe get him to have a look at the nut. Hopefully this will keep it all nicely in tune  :lol:
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: big steve on September 19, 2005, 05:39:10 PM
www.stringsdirect.co.uk is worth a look too - free 1st class postage which is nice, and cheap prices too.

i use them sometimes, but ethically i'm concerned that smaller/player owned/local shops and companies are in danger of being pushed out of a market by big businesses. (our beloved BKP fits the former description...)

i know it's not a perfect argument but it does concern me
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: HJM on September 19, 2005, 05:51:14 PM
I can understand that...but then again I'm sure my local shop keeps 'em in the cellar, they smell and they're almost rusty!
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: _tom_ on September 19, 2005, 06:47:38 PM
Quote from: big steve
www.stringsdirect.co.uk is worth a look too - free 1st class postage which is nice, and cheap prices too.

i use them sometimes, but ethically i'm concerned that smaller/player owned/local shops and companies are in danger of being pushed out of a market by big businesses. (our beloved BKP fits the former description...)

i know it's not a perfect argument but it does concern me


hmm yeh they do charge alot in shops though, Stringsdirect are like £3-4 a pack whereas my local shops are around £6-7 a pack I think.
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: PhilKing on September 19, 2005, 06:56:20 PM
I hate to tell you how much strings are here.  D'Addario's have a 25 set box which Musicians Friend sells for about $60.  That makes them £1.30 a set.  Even with duty and the PO rip off charge, they should still be a good buy.  If you get together with a few friends you could save a lot.
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: Bob Johnson on September 19, 2005, 07:06:01 PM
I know Tony at Strings Direct personally; he plays guitar and has a keen interest in what's going on, they're not some megalythic faceless outfit chasing down the fastest buck and they have a nice retail outfit offering good deals to one and all. Believe me you can use them with a clear conscience. You could also take a look at www.newstrings.co.uk their US made (basically unbranded) strings are worth trying. They obviously come out of some factory that makes loads of branded strings for for god knows who.
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: HJM on September 19, 2005, 07:07:16 PM
Norman at Stringbusters is a top bloke too - and they sell BKPs! ANd they have nice girls working on their stand at LGS..... :wink:
Title: Damn the local shops!-SUPPORT YERSELF!
Post by: Drac on September 19, 2005, 07:26:53 PM
-I'm one of these "little shops"-
-I still say anyone that knows his craft will always have a livelihood...
-
-Lunge for the bargain, & buy a year or more worth of strings at a time-

buy in bulk, or single strings, too-skip over all the packaging and advertising-If yer local won't help you with that,  what good are they to you anyway?-shaker eggs, tele-tubby tamborines, kazoos, and  probably nothing in the way of  shred machines (or 'what you want' )

-My local music shops are doing fine-I don't worry about door-to-door salesmen, either-

curious note- significant difference between music malls and cottage industry boutiques : the malls burn longer!-

-I'm going to go change my strings right now on principle...
-JOIN ME...
-yer feisty pal Drac
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: _tom_ on September 19, 2005, 07:36:22 PM
Quote from: HJM
Norman at Stringbusters is a top bloke too - and they sell BKPs! ANd they have nice girls working on their stand at LGS..... :wink:


Well, I'll have to go to LGS next time :lol: I think for my birthday I'm just gonna ask my mum to buy me a big bulk pack of strings or something, like 20 packs or something  :D Cheers for all the help guys, and Drac I know what you mean about the stores that sell tambourines etc, the one I go to for my lessons sell "Pennywhistles" hahahahahahaha
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: rinse_master on September 19, 2005, 08:06:32 PM
I have used stringsdirect.co.uk a few times, great prices and a massive selection of guages too (same at stringbusters).

I liek the sounds of those D'Addario 25 packs, I might order one of those...
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: _tom_ on September 19, 2005, 08:27:51 PM
Quote from: rinse_master
I have used stringsdirect.co.uk a few times, great prices and a massive selection of guages too (same at stringbusters).

I liek the sounds of those D'Addario 25 packs, I might order one of those...


yeah, I've used stringsdirect before a few times. I think I'll get a 25 pack of D'addarios for my bday then, the same for xmas aswell  :lol:
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: big steve on September 19, 2005, 10:10:11 PM
there's nothing wrong with pennywhistles! i made £9 in an hour in august bank holiday busking with a tine whistle!
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: willo on September 19, 2005, 10:13:00 PM
Quote from: big steve
there's nothing wrong with pennywhistles! i made £9 in an hour in august bank holiday busking with a tine whistle!


It's only excusable if you are Andrea (?) from the Corrs... :P  :wink:
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: big steve on September 19, 2005, 10:19:00 PM
(http:// http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=tbn:95DY_g62A3QJ:paulcory.com/photo_gallery/ireland/Images/121.jpg )

this is more the kind of thing i'm going for
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: willo on September 19, 2005, 10:19:39 PM
not not not good! :lol:
Title: arrg tuning problems driving me mad!
Post by: big steve on September 19, 2005, 10:20:40 PM
whoops! this thread appears to have veered a little off topic! how did that happen?  :oops: