Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => The Dressing Room => Topic started by: Nadz1lla on August 22, 2008, 10:58:44 AM
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Just been reading about this on the BBC site, and further investigating it via Wiki and...facebook, lol.
They are saying the risk of creating a black hole on Earth in this experiment is something like 5billion to 1, but bloody hell if there are any odds I'd rather they just left it the hell alone, haha!
That said it is an impressive piece of kit and if it works I will be very interested in reading about their findings.
Of course one of the other things they are investigating is the possibility of different dimensions, so if they don't destroy the world they may just create an "Event Horizon" situation and create literally Hell on Earth.
I for one am ready to go into Doom mode if this happens. Who is with me? :shock: :lol:
[EDIT - info links added]
More info here :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider
http://lhc.web.cern.ch/lhc/
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/03/god-particle/achenbach-text
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yeah, i heard about the artificial black hole scare mongering. and we all thought nuclear war or runaway climate change would get us! at least a black hole would be quick. well, actually i think we'd find ourselves stuck in exactly the same moment, but we'd be oblivious to it so i suppose it's a relatively nice kind of armageddon!
anyway, Doctor Who or someone would turn up to save us all, so that's okay 8)
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or runaway climate change would get us!
Still might.
I was actually talking about this my old man last night. Think we should be safe :D
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it's not gonna make a black hole. the problem with quantum mechanics etc. is that there's a minute chance that almost anything can happen, so they have to say that there's a small chance or they'd be lying (e.g. if you kick a ball often enough against a wall, it'll tunnel through it). but there's virtually no chance of it happening.
the thing is, what they hope to learn from running the hadron collider outweighs the minute risks of forming a black hole. granted, it's pretty catastrophic if it does happen, but we'll be extremely unlucky if it does. it'd be like not going outside in case a plane crashed on top of you (only probably much less likely than even that happening).
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As Dave just said, it's all but impossible to crete a black hole, never mind a black hole that could stay in existance long enough to actually have any effect on anything, never mind one that could actually destroy Earth.
The problem is that the people who generally get asked if it might is that they're scientists. People with a habit of taking things horribly literally and as such, when presented with "Is this possible?" they say yes, cause everything is.
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Do they do holes of another colour cos black can be so dull-even if it is stylish.
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i am desperately holding my tongue trying not to make a joke about pink or brown holes
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A quote from the CERN website...
Microscopic black holes
Nature forms black holes when certain stars, much larger than our Sun, collapse on themselves at the end of their lives. They concentrate a very large amount of matter in a very small space. Speculations about microscopic black holes at the LHC refer to particles produced in the collisions of pairs of protons, each of which has an energy comparable to that of a mosquito in flight. Astronomical black holes are much heavier than anything that could be produced at the LHC.
According to the well-established properties of gravity, described by Einstein’s relativity, it is impossible for microscopic black holes to be produced at the LHC. There are, however, some speculative theories that predict the production of such particles at the LHC. All these theories predict that these particles would disintegrate immediately. Black holes, therefore, would have no time to start accreting matter and to cause macroscopic effects.
Although stable microscopic black holes are not expected in theory, study of the consequences of their production by cosmic rays shows that they would be harmless. Collisions at the LHC differ from cosmic-ray collisions with astronomical bodies like the Earth in that new particles produced in LHC collisions tend to move more slowly than those produced by cosmic rays. Stable black holes could be either electrically charged or neutral. If they had electric charge, they would interact with ordinary matter and be stopped while traversing the Earth, whether produced by cosmic rays or the LHC. The fact that the Earth is still here rules out the possibility that cosmic rays or the LHC could produce dangerous charged microscopic black holes. If stable microscopic black holes had no electric charge, their interactions with the Earth would be very weak. Those produced by cosmic rays would pass harmlessly through the Earth into space, whereas those produced by the LHC could remain on Earth. However, there are much larger and denser astronomical bodies than the Earth in the Universe. Black holes produced in cosmic-ray collisions with bodies such as neutron stars and white dwarf stars would be brought to rest. The continued existence of such dense bodies, as well as the Earth, rules out the possibility of the LHC producing any dangerous black holes.
I think that it's another example of the media running away with selective aspects of the real story.
I also suspect that the predicted advances in our knowledge may also be overstated...
:?
Mark.
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granted, it's pretty catastrophic if it does happen, but we'll be extremely unlucky if it does.
apparently judging by that quote posted by mr bump, even if it does happen, it's not necessarily going to be (even unlikely to be) catastrophic.
who cares, though, when you can sell more papers by telling people a black hole might form and eat the earth?
:? :x
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creating a black hole on Earth in this experiment
Big deal. John Petrucci did that back in 1987 while practicing chromatics.
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no, we're not doomed because of that.
we're doomed, beacuse of the destructive nature of humanity.
besides, they've been doing experiments with this and smaler versions for years now and noone gave a flying $%&# about it, now just because they have a larger scale (known) test scheduled for sometime in 2012, everybody's gone batshite
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[Private Frasier]
Black holes... forming...
The Earth... collapsing...
We're dooooomed...
[/Private Frasier]
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(e.g. if you kick a ball often enough against a wall, it'll tunnel through it).
Sorry, Dave, I just can't let you get away with that one!! Maybe if you look at each atom of the ball and the wall individually, you could make some argument on a QM-scale, but the applied scale of the ball/wall scenario is so far out of quantum-mechanical remit that it's not only fair to say that it's completely Newtonian, it'd be incorrect to describe it in quantum-mechanical terms as an in-tact unit. At the energies required to describe non-classical effects of a reasonable-sized ball, the ball would most definitely not be in tact!
Sorry, that was really geeky :(
Roo
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i am desperately holding my tongue trying not to make a joke about pink or brown holes
You're a stronger man than I Wez..
My tongue goes into over-drive when I see a close configuration of pink and brown holes!
Matter / Anti-matter...
Pink or brown, it don't matter to me :P :P
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My farts are more dangerous than a micro black hole.
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Sorry, Dave, I just can't let you get away with that one!! Maybe if you look at each atom of the ball and the wall individually, you could make some argument on a QM-scale,
yeah, that's kind of what i was doing. :)
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The research has been done, and the system has been deemed safe.
The collisions which are being researched happen all the time all over the universe, sometimes in much larger scales, sometimes close to earth, and we're not dead yet.
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Extremely unlikey, and besides, balck holes evaporate (hawking radiation) and the smaller they are the faster they do it, so if there is one then it wont last long enough to do anything.
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i see they have some web cams up
http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html
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:lol:
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i see they have some web cams up
http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html
Superb!
I tried to get on the webcam all day but couldn't. It's now obvious to me why I couldn't and that all of reality has in fact been reduced to a microscopic singularity...
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i see they have some web cams up
http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html
Superb!
I tried to get on the webcam all day but couldn't. It's now obvious to me why I couldn't and that all of reality has in fact been reduced to a microscopic singularity...
Guess what i'm playing to a room of first year pupils on monday morning... I've had kids ask me all last week about 'everyone dying on Wednesday', a 10 minute explanation was all it took, they did complain when i hit two classes with tests on Wednesday afternoon though.
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If this had been going on in my day, I have said that I was unable to submit homework as it had mysteriously disappeared into a back hole. But it wouldn't have occurred in my day because Mr Stephenson was testing his new locomotive and they hadn't gotten around to all this black hole malarky at that point.
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All a load of media hype if you ask me.
Not sure where i read it (might've been the Scotsman) but in India a teenage girl got so scared about this black hole nonsense that she killed herself.
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Really? Wow, some people are silly! Even if you knew you're gonna die in a black hole, then live your life to the fullest while you can. Don't beat the damn thing to it! Jeez! :?
Well, they turned the first beam on recently. Second beam is the one to watch. Old Nostradamus told us all to get out of Geneva when the positive beam was turned on, so I guess.... let robots run the experiment? :lol:
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All a load of media hype if you ask me.
Not sure where i read it (might've been the Scotsman) but in India a teenage girl got so scared about this black hole nonsense that she killed herself.
I heard that too!
Crazy stuff... I don't see why she didn't just wait...
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so if they don't destroy the world they may just create an "Event Horizon" situation and create literally Hell on Earth.
What happens during this "event horizon"?
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so if they don't destroy the world they may just create an "Event Horizon" situation and create literally Hell on Earth.
What happens during this "event horizon"?
The event horizon is a conceptual ring around the black hole, that if you go beyond it, the forces will be too strong for you to ever come back. In other words, there's a distance from the black hole that if you go beyond, you'll be doomed.
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so if they don't destroy the world they may just create an "Event Horizon" situation and create literally Hell on Earth.
What happens during this "event horizon"?
The event horizon is a conceptual ring around the black hole, that if you go beyond it, the forces will be too strong for you to ever come back. In other words, there's a distance from the black hole that if you go beyond, you'll be doomed.
Not exactly. It's the point around a wormhole or black hole where, basically, things would vanish. Where the escape velocity is faster than the speed of light so the insie is invisable, or well, black.. You be too close to get away LONG before that.
I think umpteen scientific groups define it differently though, plus Event Horizon can apply to all sorts of different celestial bodies and events and the entire universe itself.
Or that's my unerstanding, which is only very basic, to be fair.
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So we'd vanish? Would we be crushed or something?
I find it fascinating
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All a load of media hype if you ask me.
Not sure where i read it (might've been the Scotsman) but in India a teenage girl got so scared about this black hole nonsense that she killed herself.
wow.
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All a load of media hype if you ask me.
Not sure where i read it (might've been the Scotsman) but in India a teenage girl got so scared about this black hole nonsense that she killed herself.
This was one of my main concerns when i first read about the black-hole theories... poor girl :(
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so if they don't destroy the world they may just create an "Event Horizon" situation and create literally Hell on Earth.
What happens during this "event horizon"?
I actually meant the film rather than the scientific term, hehe.
In the film "Event Horizon" (which is the name of the spaceship in the film), I thik the vessel is a science ship or something that does an experiment which goes wrong. The ship disappears, re-appears years later and the crew are missing. Basically what happened is the experiment tore a hole between dimensions and went through, but the other side was basically hell and the crew went loopy and killed each other in pretty gross ways....eurgh. Nasty stuff.
Anyway, that guy who was in Jurassic Park turns into a demon thing at the end but Laurence Fishburn blows up the ship. Or something. :lol: :shock:
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so if they don't destroy the world they may just create an "Event Horizon" situation and create literally Hell on Earth.
What happens during this "event horizon"?
I actually meant the film rather than the scientific term, hehe.
In the film "Event Horizon" (which is the name of the spaceship in the film), I thik the vessel is a science ship or something that does an experiment which goes wrong. The ship disappears, re-appears years later and the crew are missing. Basically what happened is the experiment tore a hole between dimensions and went through, but the other side was basically hell and the crew went loopy and killed each other in pretty gross ways....eurgh. Nasty stuff.
Anyway, that guy who was in Jurassic Park turns into a demon thing at the end but Laurence Fishburn blows up the ship. Or something. :lol: :shock:
Love that film :D
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apparently, this thing has broken down again. It won't be up and running again for 2 months :lol:
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You see why I get so nervous? Schoolboy errors are abundant in the CERN labs! They even got hacked last week.
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These aren't "schoolboy" errors, its not even a big problem. The only thing is, ANY problem takes months to fix since you have to heat it up, and cool it down again.
And they didn't think anyone would try to hack an innocent physics experiment.
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And they didn't think anyone would try to hack an innocent physics experiment.
But that's exactly what I mean! They didn't think anyone would, and rather than put precautions in place just in case, they just carried on. It's this lack of foresight that worries me, lol. Anyone who knows anything about the internet knows that if something is in the public eye, hackers are going to go for it. Plain and simple.
Considering these guys pretty much invented the net I would have thought they'd be all over their net security like a rash. Obviously not.
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Tim Berners Lee 'invented' the internet. University of California, although English
(everyone knows something useless right?)
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And they didn't think anyone would try to hack an innocent physics experiment.
But that's exactly what I mean! They didn't think anyone would, and rather than put precautions in place just in case, they just carried on. It's this lack of foresight that worries me, lol. Anyone who knows anything about the internet knows that if something is in the public eye, hackers are going to go for it. Plain and simple.
Considering these guys pretty much invented the net I would have thought they'd be all over their net security like a rash. Obviously not.
The site that was hacked was nothing to do with the experiment itself, just a site for public information that was cooped up to inform. Most likely designed by some IT company in Portsmouth at the request of someone high up bored of sending out emails.
None of the scientists were affected at all.
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Tim Berners Lee 'invented' the internet. University of California, although English
(everyone knows something useless right?)
Fraud he didn't it was only the web browsing bit he came up with
The real internet is the network that connects the machines together [smug] even he hypertext stuff happened earlier with the Gopher protocol [/smug]
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And they didn't think anyone would try to hack an innocent physics experiment.
But that's exactly what I mean! They didn't think anyone would, and rather than put precautions in place just in case, they just carried on. It's this lack of foresight that worries me, lol. Anyone who knows anything about the internet knows that if something is in the public eye, hackers are going to go for it. Plain and simple.
Considering these guys pretty much invented the net I would have thought they'd be all over their net security like a rash. Obviously not.
The site that was hacked was nothing to do with the experiment itself, just a site for public information that was cooped up to inform. Most likely designed by some IT company in Portsmouth at the request of someone high up bored of sending out emails.
None of the scientists were affected at all.
Yeah well..blah. :lol:
I would have thought the important stuff was kept strictly offline or else a completely cut-off network anyway. But still. Meh. :) :shock:
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Tim Berners Lee 'invented' the internet. University of California, although English
(everyone knows something useless right?)
Fraud he didn't it was only the web browsing bit he came up with
The real internet is the network that connects the machines together [smug] even he hypertext stuff happened earlier with the Gopher protocol [/smug]
Arpanet anyone?
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Arpanet anyone?
Exactly you really can go back quite far (my own experiance only goes back to 92) and I still have a preference for Telnet & FTP
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All a load of media hype if you ask me.
Not sure where i read it (might've been the Scotsman) but in India a teenage girl got so scared about this black hole nonsense that she killed herself.
This was one of my main concerns when i first read about the black-hole theories... poor girl :(
Haha $%&#ing idiot
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Arpanet anyone?
Exactly you really can go back quite far (my own experiance only goes back to 92) and I still have a preference for Telnet & FTP
All started with ARPAnet and it's packet switching methods. And it was CERN and T-BL that done the WobbilyWobbilyWobilly bit.