Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: JSHRED on August 26, 2008, 02:08:35 AM
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OK tone junkies, here's a curveball, and I'm open to suggestions, particularly BKP solutions obviously.
I've tried all kinds of pickups over the years, Duncans, Dimarzios, EMGs, and they all have strengths, weaknesses. What I keep coming back to for my needs however are the Gibson Dirty Fingers. They have a power and organic character that I think a lot of BKP users can probably respect. I liked some Duncans like JBs and Distortions and Screamin Demons for their organic harmonic tonefulness, but they didn't quite have the angry power of EMG 81s. But I played 81s in all kinds of guitars and they always felt like clinical robo-pickups to me. No soul. Hard to describe, but I think you all know what I mean.
I'm satisfied with my Dirty Fingers, but I think what I'm trying to ask is if there's a BKP that will do the same thing but better? VH? Nailbomb? Rebel Yell? I'm actually very close to trying some of the new Duncan Blackouts, since they're supposed to be EMG's but with the heart of a well-wound passive, but I'm always skeptical, as I'm sure anyone on BKP boards would be.
One last thing, I'm a shredder who appreciates classic tonality but I also appreciate big bad modern evolution of distortion, just not the muddier nu metal type thing. You know, where you put a Duncan Invader in a mahogany guitar and then cry yourself to sleep because all your tone went away and never came back. I'd say my iconic player is John Sykes, I get a big rush playing all his licks and riffs. And I was a huge Rhoads fan too. I love les pauls, but they almost always have to be 24 frets with thin fast necks. Good luck finding that. I think what I like is the shortscale, which is why I'll probably be picking up a Luna Andromeda Dragon and ripping out the stock pickups for whatever turns me on next.
I'd love to hear some ideas!
Cheers,
John from the US
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Hi John.
That sounds to me like Nailbomb territory... High output, with a breathy, organic tone.
Alternatively, if your thing is Sykes, I guess that a Cold Sweat would do the job nicely. Also, the Warpig might be worth a listen... Many people on this forum seem to pair the Warpig bridge and Cold Sweat neck. There are some great clips on this forum, definitely worth checking out.
Mark.
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Cold Sweat. It's a no-brainer really.
A pickup named after a Sykes song should guide you in the right direction. ;) BKP is known for the organic character so you wont go wrong there. Also, the neck model is a shredder's favourite. What guitar are you planning to put them in btw?
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Quite right. I didn't notice the "Cold Sweat" until after my post. One would assume that would be the ticket, although sometimes I like to play just a touch heavier than 1987 Sykes, but that particular tone knocks my socks off.
I primarily play Mahogany Les Pauls, all of which have Dirty Fingers.
But this little basswood beauty is probably my next acquisition:
http://www.lunaguitars.com/electricproduct/andrdragon.php
I need 24 frets and I love 24.75" les paul scale (like Charvel 750's I've had in the past) so this guitar looks like what I'd want. But I don't know enough about the tonal character of basswood, especially a thinner lighter body.
One thing I'm also torn on is ceramic versus Alnico V. Or even the newly-mainstream Alnico VIII. I'd assume from the fact that I like my Dirty Fingers so much, I'm a ceramic kind of guy, but who knows.
Thanks for all the input.
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Id've said the Cold Sweat too :)
I've had my bridge CS in a Japanese Charvel Fusion Special (think it was Basswood) and I now have it in the bridge of an Ash bodied Strat.
I didn't like it very much in the Charvel, but in the Strat, it kills! It's quite a cutting sound (asin through a band, not shrill) and is surprisingly versatile I find.
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Quite right. I didn't notice the "Cold Sweat" until after my post. One would assume that would be the ticket, although sometimes I like to play just a touch heavier than 1987 Sykes, but that particular tone knocks my socks off.
I primarily play Mahogany Les Pauls, all of which have Dirty Fingers.
But this little basswood beauty is probably my next acquisition:
http://www.lunaguitars.com/electricproduct/andrdragon.php
I need 24 frets and I love 24.75" les paul scale (like Charvel 750's I've had in the past) so this guitar looks like what I'd want. But I don't know enough about the tonal character of basswood, especially a thinner lighter body.
One thing I'm also torn on is ceramic versus Alnico V. Or even the newly-mainstream Alnico VIII. I'd assume from the fact that I like my Dirty Fingers so much, I'm a ceramic kind of guy, but who knows.
Thanks for all the input.
With you saying you would like to play with higher gain at times i would also recommend the miracle man bridge ive tried it in mahogany & basswood and it is probably my favourite pickup.
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i'm pleased brow wrote that about the basswood and cold sweat. following this thread, i felt that the cold sweat might be a bit weird sounding in basswood knowing its characteristics.
the cold sweat handles lots of gain really well, including 'teh br00talz' levels. i'm experimenting with mine in a maple through neck tuned to drop c# at the moment for a more modern sound.
i like the original 80s dirty fingers, i haven't tried the reissues. they're cool pickups, and clean up really well - though not as precise/clear as BKPs with gain. i think the originals have a certain cool 'fukked up' sound with high gain, which is almost a bit punky. if you like this characteristic, perhaps the nailbombs would be a good choice from what i hear in the clips.
i don't think tim uses alnico8 unless theres a special case - i read here its used in some 7/8 string pickups for example. you're obviously looking at high gain pickups. ceramic will give that edge and bite, from the gainier the alnico5 pickups i just have the holy diver and rebel yell, and they're both sweeter sounding. cold sweats are alot more organic sounding that most ceramic pickups, the dirty fingers are similar like that... something like the painkiller revels in 'synthetic' (?!) sounding fatness.
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I hate to segue from one body wood to another again, but here's an interesting twist. I have a custom alder JEM finally nearing completion. I've contemplated an Evo set and an Evo 2 set, but lately Dimarzio pickups have lost their zest for me, especially since I like the musically harmonic high gain tone, and I've never been able to find a Dimarzio with that package. I like Evo's for recording solo's, but they don't have the kind of tight meaty crunch that I like for general use.
So any ideas for a balanced high-gain pickup for an alder bodied JEM? No middle single-coil, by the way. I guess I'm not versatile enough to want or need one.
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I hate to segue from one body wood to another again, but here's an interesting twist. I have a custom alder JEM finally nearing completion. I've contemplated an Evo set and an Evo 2 set, but lately Dimarzio pickups have lost their zest for me, especially since I like the musically harmonic high gain tone, and I've never been able to find a Dimarzio with that package. I like Evo's for recording solo's, but they don't have the kind of tight meaty crunch that I like for general use.
So any ideas for a balanced high-gain pickup for an alder bodied JEM? No middle single-coil, by the way. I guess I'm not versatile enough to want or need one.
I hear ALOT of good things about a Holy Diver in an Alder bodied guitar.
I haven't tried 1 myself, but whenever someone mentions a high output pickup for an alder guitar, a Holy Diver usually always gets mentioned :)
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+1 good pup
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if u like the Dirty Fingers why fix something that isn't broken?
I hate to say this but DF's are some of my favourite pickups and they really burn in the mids like nothing else, very strange construction as well using 3 ceramic bar magnets, Bill Lawrence designed this pickup for Gibson and it truely is a monster.
I'd say the Cold Sweat is your best bet it's going to sound similar and give you somewhat more of that extra harmonic content that the scatterwinding process gives you, if thats what you're after.
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OK, then here's a curveball.
One thing that keeps me from being all-aboard the Dirty Fingers train for life is the lack of F-Spacing.
I play a lot of Floyd Roses.
So here's the question to the sick freaks of tone. And I mean that with all due respect.
Has anyone concluded if there's an appreciable response difference between tremolo spacing and standard spacing when it comes to playing on a Floyd (or Strat) guitar?
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OK, then here's a curveball.
One thing that keeps me from being all-aboard the Dirty Fingers train for life is the lack of F-Spacing.
I play a lot of Floyd Roses.
So here's the question to the sick freaks of tone. And I mean that with all due respect.
Has anyone concluded if there's an appreciable response difference between tremolo spacing and standard spacing when it comes to playing on a Floyd (or Strat) guitar?
i'm using normal spaced dirty fingers on a floyd rose V. i notice no drop out. i suppose the magnets are so powerful it hardly makes a difference.
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I hate to say this but DF's are some of my favourite pickups and they really burn in the mids like nothing else
Damn, that is what it is about them I couldn't figure out. I usually have the mids on my amp high, (scooping scares me) but dropped to 3-4, and it has that perfect bite and still strong mid presence.
I wonder if the CS has the more balanced mids of a 'perfected' DF set?
Oh, and I used normal spacing on a Kahler, and could barely hear the high E's clarity, but that was probably because of the trem only really being half attached.
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the CS doesn't have particularly strong mids IMO. they don't sound that like the DFs after all I reckon, though there is a cerain je ne ce quoi. they sound like the sykes DF tone, but they clearly aren't DF clones.
like zakk and priest use the same EMG, but they have very different BKPs named after them
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I had noticed that the BKP pickups that pay tribute to particular players seem to emulate the tone of the player, and not so much the specific pickup that they play.
As Dr. Evil says, I think it's what the French call a certain "I-Don't-Know-What."
I do tend to like metal pickups that push certain parts of the midrange, so even if you scoop the amp's mids out just a little bit, the guitar's source tone still has the midrange to be heard through a mix, and mids are also cool for bringing out harmonic character.
By the way Sir Gareth, what the heck is the axe in your picture. With the very single cutaway. Looks very familiar.
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I had noticed that the BKP pickups that pay tribute to particular players seem to emulate the tone of the player, and not so much the specific pickup that they play.
As Dr. Evil says, I think it's what the French call a certain "I-Don't-Know-What."
I do tend to like metal pickups that push certain parts of the midrange, so even if you scoop the amp's mids out just a little bit, the guitar's source tone still has the midrange to be heard through a mix, and mids are also cool for bringing out harmonic character.
By the way Sir Gareth, what the heck is the axe in your picture. With the very single cutaway. Looks very familiar.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3JXaz78hD6w (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3JXaz78hD6w)
its the sky guitar of Uli Jon Roth, was having a joke with Philly Q and Feline on another thread, so I thought its time to show my alligance a bit ;) i found out about uli a few months ago, and i really like his style. the guitar has 36 frets, and 6/7 strings. the neck pup is mounted under the fret board... its modelled on the shape of a tear.
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You know, the occasions I've had to work with Yngwie, he's pretty much been the pompous ass that most people talk about. Which I found unfortunate since he was a bigtime icon to me when I was just starting to pursue the art of shred. But anyway, I always liked his version of Sails.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YyPMTPEt_Z8&feature=related
No doubt about it though, Uli for the win. Hats off. I knew I'd seen that axe before. I owned a Washburn custom 29 fret for a very long time, I still regret when I put EMG's in it. Thing became a sterile robot.
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You know, the occasions I've had to work with Yngwie, he's pretty much been the pompous ass that most people talk about. Which I found unfortunate since he was a bigtime icon to me when I was just starting to pursue the art of shred. But anyway, I always liked his version of Sails.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YyPMTPEt_Z8&feature=related
No doubt about it though, Uli for the win. Hats off. I knew I'd seen that axe before. I owned a Washburn custom 29 fret for a very long time, I still regret when I put EMG's in it. Thing became a sterile robot.
You know, I'm not to sure about the Yngwie version of Sails Of Charon... well to be honest - I don't like it at all (sorry to disagree man) considering I can hear the original as easily. Uli has some weird or alternative ideas maybe - but damn he plays *everything* with such a passion! I hope he'll be a nice guy if I ever get the chance to meet him, a real artist. I listened to the Yngwie version of Sails Of Charon a couple of times, but he plays it so clean and technical, and I think he kind of misses the point. When I listen to the Uli version I'm transported to those distant lands, with the Yngwie one I just hear a gifted guitar player.
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the cold sweat is not scooped at all
I had this concern too, as people never mention its midrange character
it's just not as middy as the bkp/duncan/dimarzio medium/high output standards
but it has a lot more mids than PAF style pickups and the miracle man
it's not like a bill lawrence or screamin' demon, for example
it's a very flat pickup in the bass and midrange areas
if you put it in a strat, you'll probably get a twangy scooped tone, but in a les paul or explorer, it will reflect the strong midrange of the guitar
it has a VERY present midrange crunch going on, but not the mid hump of a duncan distortion or gibson 500t
I had several pickups and other bkp's in my guitar and the cold sweat is now my favorite bridge pup, along with the holy diver (that has a completely different flavor)