Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Philly Q on September 15, 2008, 01:43:50 AM
-
I may have mentioned once or twice ( :roll: ) that I'm putting together a Strat. I've decided on "swamp" ash for the body, because I like the looks and it'll make a change from the many alder Strats I've owned in the past. The big question is how heavy a body should I go for?
I dismantled my hardtail Strat and found that the body weighs 4lbs, 8oz and the guitar weighs a few ounces under 8 pounds in total (it has heavier modern style hardware). I'd ideally like to knock a little off that total weight, especially since a trem system is a lot heavier than a hardtail bridge, so I've been looking at bodies around the 3.5lbs to 4.0lbs range - preferably at the lower end of that range.
However, I've read a few comments in various places (including the Warmoth site) saying that lightweight bodies can sound more resonant acoustically, but if they're "too light" they can lack midrange or sound indistinct and muddy. I don't want to fall into that trap, but how light is "too light"? You see people talking about great Strats and Teles which weigh less than 7lbs, but even with vintage hardware that means the bodies must be well under 4lbs.
I'm confused, basically. :? Any thoughts?
(I haven't totally ruled out getting a Warmoth hollow body ("these bodies remain stiff but light weight for that fat, rich tone with great sustain"), but I'm afraid it'll end up sounding like a Thinline which really isn't what I want.)
-
Yes, the hollow will sound alike Thinline... I don't know how much would the weight would change the tone... Anyway, the body doesn't change that much the tone, the neck change way more the tone...
I really don't think that you should be afraid of it...
-
i disagree that the neck changes the tone way more than the body.. unless you are referring to a neck through design. but we could debate that all day and not get anywhere.
anyway, the topic at hand. I dont think there is a strong relationship between weight and tone, there is a relationship there but its effects would be hard to see over a pound or two difference in a body blank. I am not saying a 3lb body sounds the same as a 5lb body, i am saying that you will get good and bad tone in each weight bracket. Not helpfull i know - but it really does come down to checking each piece of wood.. in this case i would take a chance on a nice lightweight one from warmoth - but as with any guitar parts ordered without trying you are taking a chance
Stiffness is a more important variable that often gets ignored because its harder to quantify. If you have a very lightweight body that still has a nice amount of stiffness then it will still sound good and resonant. This is why i like the warmoth bodies with channels routed out to reduce weight. You can loose a lot of weight without loosing much stiffness and because the chambers are small and many rather than a few large empty chambers it sounds less like a thinline would and if you dont have an f-hole you wont have the extra acoustic volume of a thinline either
-
What Wez says is my understanding too. You can't go by weight alone, stiffness seems to be the factor and that's hard to quantify.
-
i disagree that the neck changes the tone way more than the body.. unless you are referring to a neck through design. but we could debate that all day and not get anywhere.
Yeah, I've seen this idea that the neck affects the tone more than the body on the Warmoth forum during my research in the last couple of weeks. I've also seen people on the Telecaster forum saying the same thing. As you say, it's not worth getting into a big debate (and taking my own thread off-topic! :roll: ), but I'm sceptical. I can hear differences in tone between different body woods quite easily, and I'm no Eric Johnson. It may be true that those differences are less noticeable when amplified, I suppose.
Meanwhile....
Thanks for the comments so far, guys. I guess it does really come down to the individual piece(s) of wood, and weight is only one factor. So since it's a bit of lottery anyway, there's no point cutting off my nose to spite my face and getting a heavier body... which might not even sound good. If I'm going to take a punt on Warmoth I might as well go for a lightweight one.
-
I have a new 'strat' that has a really lightweight alder body, and it's resonant as all hell!! It is by far the lightest guitar I've ever owned, but it sustains like crazy.
-
I have a new 'strat' that has a really lightweight alder body, and it's resonant as all hell!! It is by far the lightest guitar I've ever owned, but it sustains like crazy.
Hardtail or trem, Ben? And I'm guessing maple neck?
-
I have a new 'strat' that has a really lightweight alder body, and it's resonant as all hell!! It is by far the lightest guitar I've ever owned, but it sustains like crazy.
Hardtail or trem, Ben? And I'm guessing maple neck?
OFR, maple/maple neck, bolt on ... sorry, no tone or volume controls, just a kill switch. Thread/pics coming soon. :)
-
I have a new 'strat' that has a really lightweight alder body, and it's resonant as all hell!! It is by far the lightest guitar I've ever owned, but it sustains like crazy.
Hardtail or trem, Ben? And I'm guessing maple neck?
OFR, maple/maple bolt on ... sorry, no tone or volume controls, just a kill switch. Thread/pics coming soon. :)
Cool, mine will also be a maple neck - with a vintage(ish) trem, HSS (and a full complement of controls).
Looking forward to the thread and pics! :)
-
I know this is casting the net VERY wide indeed, but in my experience I've found my lighter guitars to have more zing and sustain whereas my heavier guitars have had less acoustic resonance.
Plugged in, I'd say the difference is negligable. If weight is what you're worried about, go for the lighter wood - your back/shoulder will thank you for it.
-
I know this is casting the net VERY wide indeed, but in my experience I've found my lighter guitars to have more zing and sustain whereas my heavier guitars have had less acoustic resonance.
Plugged in, I'd say the difference is negligable. If weight is what you're worried about, go for the lighter wood - your back/shoulder will thank you for it.
Yeah, on the whole I'd agree - although heavy guitars can sound quite thin and dead acoustically but still sustain when amplified, it seems. I think my white Edwards V falls into the category of being too light to have enough body in the tone, but then again my vintage Melody Maker has awesome resonance and sustain but weighs well under 6 pounds.
Anyway, I think you're right, weight is a primary concern for me so I'm going to go lightweight. Now, which finish do I go for...?
-
if it's swamp ash with a nice grain, it's got to be that creamy-white semi-transparent finish that Fender used on their Mary Kay Strats.
-
if it's swamp ash with a nice grain, it's got to be that creamy-white semi-transparent finish that Fender used on their Mary Kay Strats.
They actually had one just like that on the Warmoth site :D - but it was sold yesterday :( .
I'm basically torn between two - a two-piece natural finish with really awesome grain and a one-piece with a translucent coloured finish.
-
How about a burst? I like Warmoth's tobacco burst.
-
I said the same to him, but he thought it looks to 50's... :(
(http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/bodies/PS3155c.jpg)(http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/bodies/PS3147c.jpg)(http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/bodies/PS3149c.jpg)
-
I know it's nothing to do with me (not my money) but I would hold out for another Mary Kay style finish as theyre seriously stylish and unusual.
-
I know it's nothing to do with me (not my money) but I would hold out for another Mary Kay style finish as theyre seriously stylish and unusual.
Always interested to hear your opinion, though, Rob!
I like the Mary Kay, but I think it looks best with a 50s style neck (I have a gold anodised scratchplate which would've looked great). I don't think it would work with my big headstock Highway 1 neck.
-
I said the same to him, but he thought it looks to 50's... :(
I still think so! :lol:
These are my two favourites (I know you'll all hate the purple sunburst!):
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/phillyq/PS3153c.jpg)
-
I'm stand for that natural instead of the pinkish-violet...
-
The natural one is so 70s! ;)
The purple one is very Robin Trower http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1R5Yh4HY9k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1R5Yh4HY9k)
CBS headstocks only on those two I'd say.
-
i like the purple
-
The natural one is so 70s! ;)
The purple one is very Robin Trower http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1R5Yh4HY9k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1R5Yh4HY9k)
CBS headstocks only on those two I'd say.
You have me 100% sussed! :lol:
The natural one would be Blackmore circa Made In Europe and the first Rainbow album. The purple is pretty damn close to the Robin Trower signature Strat in Midnight Wine Burst - only prettier.
I'm almost tempted to buy both - which would be idiotic... :roll:
-
Natural ash strats always remind me of Vai's sticker strat he used with Zappa, Alcatrazz and on Flex-Able.
http://www.vai.com/Machines/guitarpages/guitar068.html (http://www.vai.com/Machines/guitarpages/guitar068.html)
If you've got the cash why not get both? You can always ebay one if you decide you don't need it.
-
If you've got the cash why not get both? You can always ebay one if you decide you don't need it.
Aaargh! Get thee behind me Satan! :twisted: :lol:
I'd completely forgotten the Sticker Strat!
-
I'm almost tempted to buy both - which would be idiotic... :roll:
Why? As you can get a neck together and make 2 guitars :twisted:
-
I'm almost tempted to buy both - which would be idiotic... :roll:
Why? As you can get a neck together and make 2 guitars :twisted:
Aaaarrrrghhhh!!!!! You know I want to!!!
:x :twisted: :shock:
:lol:
-
the blonde one with black/white/black scratchplate and maple CBS neck... mmm!! :)
but the purple sunburst one is nice too
-
the blonde one with black/white/black scratchplate and maple CBS neck... mmm!! :)
I'm actually thinking torty scratchplate with white knobs and pickup covers... which I just happen to have amongst my spares collection... :oops:
-
the torty with white parts will look tasty in the natural one :D :twisted:
Black pickguard with white (or chrome) parts in the purple...
C'mon Phill, resistence is futile... You know you want and will do both of them... :D
(hope I'm not putting you into bank troubles :lol:)
-
ah yes, you mentioned that torty guard before.
it would work with both bodies, but IMO it would look really contemporary on the purple body... if 70s is what you want, put it on the blonde one i reckon.
if you get both you could put a b/w/b on the blonde and the torty on the purple one for a contrast of periods.
-
Well, I've got a Fender backplate, HSS scratchplate and SSS scratchplate in white pearloid; and a backplate and HSS scratchplate in torty. And a black parts kit and a white parts kit (and aged white, and parchment... I'm a bit of a hoarder, if you hadn't realised :oops: ). So plenty of scope to experiment! :D
Now, decisions decisions...
-
C'mon Phill, resistence is futile... You know you want and will do both of them... :D
(hope I'm not putting you into bank troubles :lol:)
You knew it, didn't you?! I bought 'em both.... :oops: :oops: :oops:
No bank troubles, but I'm supposed to be selling guitars and saving up for boring things like kitchens and double glazing (and an HD TV :wink: ).
Oh well, I'll put the purple one together first then take my time over the natural one... should keep GAS at bay for a few months.
-
I only really like black/white/black guards on natural guitars, it just looks right to me. White/pearloid looks cheap to me and I've never liked tortoiseshell, also looks tacky.
-
I only really like black/white/black guards on natural guitars, it just looks right to me. White/pearloid looks cheap to me and I've never liked tortoiseshell, also looks tacky.
We'll have to agree to disagree there Tom! :wink:
I know pearloid stopped being fashionable in about 1997 but I love the look. Tortoiseshell too. :)
-
Ohhhh I'm feeling guilty :oops:
Hope they come nice!!! :D
The tortoise is going in which one?
-
Don't feel guilty Fernando, I pulled the trigger! :lol:
The tortoise is probably going in the natural finish, but I'll see how it all looks when I get the bodies.
-
i really like tortoise on natural bodies.. preferably oiled rather than shiny though... i think you need a 3rd body ;)
-
Those look like 2 very nice purchases Mr P, I would favour the purps one myself, I'm with Wez that the gloss looks a little too shiny on natural wood, but thats just MHO - will be interesting to see how they turn out :)
-
Tortoise on black is killer IMO
-
In that case you'd hate the red/maroon tortoiseshell pickguard on my Shell Pink 54 Reissue Jap Strat....
-
Thanks guys for assuaging my guilt.
I did consider getting an unfinished body and oiling it, but I liked that particular natural finish body so much... and I agree that tortoise looks great on black (or white), but once I decided on swamp ash I couldn't go for a solid colour, the grain is just too pretty.
-
I know it's nothing to do with me (not my money) but I would hold out for another Mary Kay style finish as theyre seriously stylish and unusual.
Always interested to hear your opinion, though, Rob!
I like the Mary Kay, but I think it looks best with a 50s style neck (I have a gold anodised scratchplate which would've looked great). I don't think it would work with my big headstock Highway 1 neck.
I love that purple one (and the natural one too so )
The natural one reminds me of all the strats I letched after but could never afford when I first discovered guitars back in 1981, I think that would look great with the large headstock. and maple fingerboard.
So whats the plan for them (apart from the Highway 1 neck and scratchplate biz ?)
-
So whats the plan for them (apart from the Highway 1 neck and scratchplate biz ?)
Well I only really had one planned - which will be the purple one now - and that's going to have an all maple neck, vintage style trem (Gotoh probably), VHII(?) and the original neck and middle pickups from my '99 Am Std Strat (at least for the time being). It'll be wired like a Fender Lone Star Strat.
Not sure about the natural one. I'll probably get another Highway 1 neck - maple again most likely, but maybe rosewood this time. Definitely big headstock. And it could be HSS again, or I might go SSS (possibly with the Fender Eric Clapton mid-boost electronics I've had hanging around for years and never used).
I already had most of the parts to build one, but I'll need to get parts for the second one pretty much from scratch - I'm going to try to take my time and accumulate the bits slowly to spread the cost. We'll see... :roll:
-
Sorry, I'm a bit late to this one Philly - but all I would have done was joined in on egging you on to getting both!! (with possibly a "who wants light?!" thrown in for good measure) :lol:
Funnily enough, I'm with Kilby, love the purple, but then the natural reminds me of what I was lusting over when I was young...
But, sorry, I HAVE to pull you up on this little gem:
should keep GAS at bay for a few months.
:D
-
Sorry, I'm a bit late to this one Philly - but all I would have done was joined in on egging you on to getting both!! (with possibly a "who wants light?!" thrown in for good measure) :lol:
Funnily enough, I'm with Kilby, love the purple, but then the natural reminds me of what I was lusting over when I was young...
But, sorry, I HAVE to pull you up on this little gem:
should keep GAS at bay for a few months.
:D
Yeah, I know.... but I can dream can't I? :oops: :wink:
I'm trying to convince myself that buying a second Strat body I didn't need was some kind of mature and responsible decision....
:|
All three of us must have had very similar teenage "guitar awareness" moments - around 1980 a guy in my school turned up with a real Fender Stratocaster and a little Fender practice amp and started playing "Alternative Ulster" before he was ordered to stop by a passing teacher. Roger Hopkins was his name. The Strat was natural ash with a big-headstock maple neck and a black scratchplate.
Later that year I got a no-name LP copy. What I really wanted was a black-on-black maple neck Strat, but in fact I ended up buying a Hamer Special. And so it all began.... :roll:
-
I think that natural one would be amazing with an rosewood/rosewood neck... or Wenge + Macassar Ebony with matching veneer on headstock 8)
(sorry... :lol:)
-
I think that natural one would be amazing with an rosewood/rosewood neck... or Wenge + Macassar Ebony with matching veneer on headstock 8)
(sorry... :lol:)
Nah, that's not going to tempt me.... as far as I'm concerned a Strat neck is maple. With a maple or rosewood fingerboard (maybe ebony at a pinch). Anything else looks funny to me.
-
:evil:
:lol:
-
Looks like I got what I deserved by styr you up :lol:
Gotta love it:
-
Looks like I got what I deserved by styr you up :lol:
Gotta love it:
You going to build that one, Fernando? :D
-
Don't know... I have one nice Swamp Ash blank here (with many more interesting woods), that could do the trick very fine... by now I've found a way to work the woods, after about one year and a half trying to find a place, let's see, the excuses are getting quite a few :lol: I'm now having a internal discussion, because I never play... same as building guitar... And I can't understand completely because I think in guitars 24h a day, even when I got and emergency at work (in a petroleum refinary, so like the real shite) trying to bend myself to do it properly... Perhaps I will do it, but with a route that I can sell it under the pickguard (sss/hsh/etc)...
-
No excuses, just do it! :P
-
No excuses, just do it! :P
Physician, heal thyself! PDT_008
Have you made up your own mind yet?
-
No excuses, just do it! :P
Physician, heal thyself! PDT_008
Have you made up your own mind yet?
:D See previous page, Ben:
C'mon Phill, resistence is futile... You know you want and will do both of them... :D
(hope I'm not putting you into bank troubles :lol:)
You knew it, didn't you?! I bought 'em both.... :oops: :oops: :oops:
-
Update:
Got my two Warmoth bodies this morning. They are so ridiculously nice, I actually started laughing out loud when I opened the box.
I just tried the Highway 1 neck on the purple body and it's a perfect, tight fit, the holes line up exactly. Really looking forward to getting these guitars put together! :D
-
Bloke, pics or it doesn't exist :lol:
Congrats, I'm having trouble with UPS right now, their emails with the duty bill are not coming in my mail box... :(
-
Bloke, pics or it doesn't exist :lol:
Congrats, I'm having trouble with UPS right now, their emails with the duty bill are not coming in my mail box... :(
They phoned me up at work so I could pay the duty, never had that happen before!
Anyway, here are some very quick, very bad, pics. The purple one will look like this (I haven't got a bridge yet):
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/phillyq/IMGP2574aa.jpg)
Not sure about the natural one, I'm experimenting with different looks:
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/phillyq/IMGP2581aaa.jpg)
-
The natural I'm sure that SHALL be N°2 with SSS pickups :twisted:
-
The natural I'm sure that SHALL be N°2 with SSS pickups :twisted:
The rosewood? Yeah, I'm leaning that way, it looks a bit too "pale" with the maple - although it does look quite '70s.
SSS is a possibility, altough I have two SSS Strats already.
-
rosewood, yes!
So go HSH :D
-
^Yep- rosewood for the natural. But I much prefer the purple- looks awesome!
-
OK, looks like the voters are preferring rosewood for the natural...
But definitely having a single-coil in the neck!
-
Philly - how much did the body and neck cost for the purple one? I couldn't see the prices on line for some reason!
-
Definately the natural with Rosewood I would say.
-
Philly - how much did the body and neck cost for the purple one? I couldn't see the prices on line for some reason!
That body was $399, the natural one was $340 (they're both swamp ash, but the purple is one-piece). Shipping was about $85 combined. Then VAT and import duty of course! In total the two bodies cost me about £580 - more than I was intending to spend (of course :roll: ), but I've sold 3 guitars in the last few weeks so I'm not feeling too guilty.
The neck is a Fender Highway 1 which I got from eBay, but finished Warmoth Strat necks start at about $250 (then, of course, go up depending on the woods etc). I haven't decided whether to get another Fender neck or a Warmoth one for the natural body.
-
Cheers Philly - just considering my options to fill my current strat GAS. I'm slowly coming to realise that I'm a fender man at heart. I do love the look and sound of others, and have owned 335s, LPs, PRSs, but for some reason have never got on with them.
-
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/phillyq/IMGP2581aaa.jpg)
I like the second one, the maple board just matches with the natural body better.
Rosewood boards on natural guitars and maple boards on black guitars is just wrong (urgh!).
I'd also go with a SSS set, probably something in SRV territory to suit that look - Irish Tours perhaps?
-
I like the second one, the maple board just matches with the natural body better.
? From where I'm sitting the 2nd one has the rosewood board. I'm pretty sure I'm not drunk!
-
Rosewood boards on natural guitars and maple boards on black guitars is just wrong (urgh!).
Even Gilmour's Black Strat? No, I much prefer maple boards on black guitars - unless the headstock is black too.
(Edit: Oh yeah, at least one of these Strats will be getting Irish Tours - in neck and middle positions, if not all three)
-
Looking good Philly.
Purple one's cute - probably looks better than the pic, I'm guessing.
Natural is looking better than I was expecting - for me natural strat bodies are either "oh yeah!!" or "I see what you were getting at, um...". But, on these pics, it falls into the first category :D
I'm coming down on the side of support for the rosewood board (and preferably the smaller headstock - is that the actual neck under consideration?) and I want to see a red tortoiseshell guard on it like that with cream knobs and covers.
On the HSS versus SSS - it's up to you, but I'd go for the 70s/HSS look on the purple. Then, if ITs are one of the things you're going for, I'd definitely put the ITs, SSS, on the natural. Then I'd want a decent rhythm section (what are Chris Layton and Tommy Shannon doing nowadays, anyway?) and I'd be off :D
-
The purple looks great, for the natural I think a rosewood neck with a CBS headstock would be magic, but I don't know if you have that neck and so the second would have to be my choice (if you don't have the neck and end up getting a Warmoth one, then I might be tempted to get an ebony fingerboard with a goncalo alves neck!).
-
:D Cheers Andy! Several very good points there, so rather than quoting your whole post:
1. Yes, the purple body looks much better in the flesh - it goes from a deep rose pink colour in the middle to actual purple on the edges, with the grain showing through even on the darkest parts. None of which shows in the pics! In fact on my computer here in work it looks almost black. :?
2. The natural body looks absolutely mind-boggling! That's just a clear finish, no tinting or filler to enhance the grain. I've always loved the look of ash Strats, but the 2 and 3 piece bodies always seem to have really obvious, ugly joins. This one is centre joined and the grain matches beautifully, in fact I think the two pieces are bookmatched.
3. Rosewood board is getting increasingly likely, but that's not the actual neck I'd be using. I'd prefer another big CBS headstock, but although it's dead easy to get a nice maple H1 neck, they don't use such nice rosewood on the H1s as on the more upmarket Fenders (especially Deluxes)....
3.5. .....Which leads me back to Warmoth, which also means small headstock (they do CBS, but it looks rubbish without the big Fender logo). If I get a Warmoth neck, I may go for a kingwood or pau ferro fingerboard - I think the lighter colour would look nice with the body.
4. Tortoise (brown rather than red) and cream/aged white parts are a certainty - I tried lots of scratchplates (I have piles of old ones at home) and torty looked best. I don't have an SSS torty scratchplate, but since I'm throwing all this money around I might as well just get one and keep my options open. :lol:
5. I called Tommy and Chris - they seem up for it but I didn't think they realise what a shiteeeee guitar player "that little English guy" actually is yet (I keep telling them I'm Welsh, but they just don't get it :roll:).
-
The purple looks great, for the natural I think a rosewood neck with a CBS headstock would be magic, but I don't know if you have that neck and so the second would have to be my choice (if you don't have the neck and end up getting a Warmoth one, then I might be tempted to get an ebony fingerboard with a goncalo alves neck!).
:D Thanks Phil, saw your post just after I replied to Andy's. As I mentioned, I'm considering kingwood or pau ferro if I can't find a nice Fender neck. You have a kingwood board or two, don't you?
-
Hi Philly, I have Kingwood and Pau Ferro from Warmoth and the kingwood is really stunning, the attached pics don't do it justice. If you want the big Fender Logo's, you can get them on ebay or from Glen Ellard [artyfarty1@blueyonder.co.uk], I only have a pic of a tele logo but the strats are just as good.
-
Hi Philly, I have Kingwood and Pau Ferro from Warmoth and the kingwood is really stunning, the attached pics don't do it justice. If you want the big Fender Logo's, you can get them on ebay or from Glen Ellard [artyfarty1@blueyonder.co.uk], I only have a pic of a tele logo but the strats are just as good.
Thanks Phil, the kingwood does look really good... and the Warmoth showcase has kingwood boards on my preferred neck shapes, '59 roundback or SRV...
Does he also do the "transition" logo? I'd go for that I was getting a small headstock. Then again I don't want to get too period-correct, this'll be a modern 22-fretter as usual.
-
I'd go for that I was getting a small headstock.
FTW! :twisted:
-
i think i'd go rosewood with the natural-finished one.
they look very nice, by the way. :)
-
Does he also do the "transition" logo? I'd go for that I was getting a small headstock. Then again I don't want to get too period-correct, this'll be a modern 22-fretter as usual.
Yes he does all the logos (and my own favourite 'Fecker' logos, which I have on all my clones, even the tele below!).