Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Bob Johnson on September 21, 2005, 02:50:10 PM
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There's lots of stuff about various pedals and other upstream effects on this forum but I was wondering what the communities opinions are on things like the Line 6 XT pro, Boss GT6 and other modelling gear as opposed to seperate stomp boxes?
Anyone got anything to say?
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i've never bothered with em, had a Korg multi fx thingy which i spent more time fiddling with than actually playing my guitar through!
also pods and such seem good if you need to make your guitar sound like different things alot (a friend of mine swears by his for his covers band for example)... but i've never got on with them, again far too much tweaking and fiddling for my tastes... (this is after owning a Line6 spider 2 & a yamaha DG60 modelling amps)
i found i only needed 2 sounds, less dirty and REALLY dirty :lol:
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Bob, I have 3 mdoelers, and I love them all, for different reasons.
Modeler #1 is a KORG PXR-4. Aside from the portability, it sports many good clean and distortion models, with all the effects being customisable. It also sports a very accurate tuner, condenser mic that doesn't suck, and 4 tracks of digital recording; the perfect sketchpad for a songwriter.
Modeler #2 is a ROLAND VG-88. Hands down, the best amp modeler in the world; when I use it with my Roland Ready Strat, it also opens up totally authentic models of steel guitars, actoustics, mandolins, synths, etc etc.
NOTE: The real downside to my synth rig (RRS, VG-88, GR-30, FC-200) is the Roland Ready Strat; The RRS tracks very well, but the guitar istelf plays rather poorly. Not sure if I want put a new neck on the guitar, or just get a proper guitar with a piezo/13-pin output ...
Modeler #3 is a JOHNSON MILLENIUM 2x12 combo amp. Some great models in this amp, but if I want to use an amp, I can just use valves. It's really an afterthought as far as my gear is concerned.
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I have limitged experiences of moddelers.
I had a line 6 Spider, which was enough to put me off line 6 products for life, it was awful :(
I still have a pandora, for portable playing and it's excellent even when feeding a clean amp.
A friend bought one in preference to a Pod 2 for demo recording.
Korg / Vox seem to be liked for the quality of their amp / speaker simulations.
Apart from multi fx and large numbers of emulations I would suggest using analogue effects, as even comparing the current Boss phaser agains the older analogue items is not a contest, analogue wins every time.
Especially in the realm of distortion.
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Modelling and multiFX are a bit like mircowave ready meals....they taste great when your hungry but you can get better!
I have a Line 6 Guitar Port - that's really nice and easy to use, tones are OK.
The GT6, my old bandmate had one, I found it too harsh sounding.
Used to have a POD and a POD v2, both were pretty good also.
I don't like modelling amps, but desktops and multieffects are great tools, especially for home studio use.
As to seperate stomp boxes vs multieffects, it depends. Multifx are quiet, have lots of fx, but can be a pain to program, and sound a bit digital....some of them colour the sound too much.
Well design traditional pedals tend to offer better transparancy and better dynamics, and not to forget, more mojo!
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I have a Vox AD30VT - its an ok practice amp but it tends to be one D in sound
I also have a guitar port and during a rich phase I bought the add on amps - I play it through Harman Kadon Sound Sticks II - I have to say it sounds absolutely fantastic as a practice amp/phrase trainer/recording amp.
Between a cheap solid state practice amp and a modeller like a Vox - I would go with the modeller, but given a choice between something big and digital and a real Fender Bassman I would go with the Fender.
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I see most of my future guitar playing happening in a home-recording context, so I'm very keen to get into the digital modeling thing. (If I turn out to be wrong, I'll buy a big valve head 'n' cab set :)!)
I didn't much like what I heard from the old V-amps and Pods, but I liked the PodXT's sounds rather better -- not enough to get one, though, not least because I really want something that has at least a few sensible bass amp models mixed in with the guitar models; I think the PodXT has only guitars, while the Pod Bass has only basses--which is kinda lame. Only the Bass V-amp has a handful of guitar amps mixed in with the bass models, AFAIK. Honestly, I'd rather have half-a-dozen good guitar amp models along with half-a-dozen (if that) good bass amp models than a bazillion of either. On the other hand, the V-amps don't have USB or OS-X-compatible editing software, and the PODxt does.
So really I'm kinda hanging out with my fingers crossed hoping for a next-gen digital amp modeller that offers both guitar and bass amp models, as well as a USB interface with support software that my Mac can use to talk to it. That would be cool.
At the moment, I just use an analogue Sansamp GT2, or the COSM stuff built into my old Roland VS-1680 (some of which still sound pretty damn good actually, despite being 10 years old or so!).
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You know what its like when you're younger; anything with flashing lights and lots of buttons seems 'better'. I owned a Korg AX1500G and I still have my Line 6 Spider, but I hope to replace this soon.
My memories of the Korg is that it was OK, nothing great, but it was easy to use, compact and by having so many far out effects (ring mods, weird delays, two types of phasers, trems etc) allowed me to really explore the sounds you can get from a guitar. However, as I got a little older, I realised that this was a curse as much as it was a blessing; all the messing around led me to actually work on my technique a lot less. I certainly don't subscribe to the idea that more pedals = a worse player, but in my experience I was less happy to work on my technique when I could spend all day pissing around with fancy delay effects.
So now I prefer something that is simple yet absolutely top-notch. It's like cooking - you can throw 100 flavours into a dish and it will be rubbish. But if you have only two ingredients, but they are absolutely top notch - and you have the ability to use them well - then the dish can be superb.
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I have an orginal pod. OK the models are not like the real thing but are useful for demos. I have never found it practical live but take it in case of amp failure.
I picked up a KorgAX1500G a few months ago really really cheap. As I play in a covers band, I need a whole range of tones and it does the job reasonally well.I have to play stuff ranging from Buddy Holly, 60's 70's through to Green day- with a Strat and Tele. I'd rather have the real thing but as I don't have a road crew and articulated truck, this will have to do.
I have used the Korg for recording recently and with a bit of tweaking, it wasn't bad- I avoid the reverbs though. 38th waffles again !
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I have a PodXT and while it can be a bit of a pain tweaking to get a decent tone, I liek having lots of choice (it also sounds 100% better through my Atomic Reactor - a valve amp with a docking station for the pod, or other modeler http://www.atomicamps.com)
I did have a GT6 before I got the Pod, it had excellent FX but there were way too many paremeters to set and fiddle with, although not completely mental, still a little less intuitive that the Pod.
Amp model wise, well I cant really compare to "real" amps, as I havent really played more than a handful of the models, but they all sounds pretty different from each other for the most part and it keeps me busy.
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Well said willo.
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Personally I don't like the sound of any of them, I'm not a big fan of modeling at all.If I want a Marshall tone I plug into a Marshall etc although I do appreciate how useful they are especially if you need access to a large variety of ballpark tones and space is at a premium. A tone is a tone at the end of the day and if you like it then use it but for me personally I like to see the wood for the trees :D
Now if you DO want to see alot of toys in one place get HJM to post up pics of his toyboards that are in his studio.................wow, days of fun 8)
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I've rationalized.....kind of
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Please don't HJM.............those toys are pure genius and if you can't find a tone amongst that lot well.......... :D
Anyway, since when was playing guitar about being rational :lol:
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Dammit...there's a tone in here somewhere..... :lol:
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Dammit...there's a tone in here somewhere..... :lol:
I for one am still waiting for pictures!!!!!!!! :D
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Later.....
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Later.....
Thank ya kindly :D
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its later now.... :lol:
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Sadly I've got to work for my toys!
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So really I'm kinda hanging out with my fingers crossed hoping for a next-gen digital amp modeller that offers both guitar and bass amp models, as well as a USB interface with support software that my Mac can use to talk to it. That would be cool.
THe Johnson J-Station has both bass and guitar models, and has a PC based edditor (don't think it works on the Mac ), and s/pdif output.
You will have to find a secondhand one though.
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I used to be able to edit my old J-station on a Mac - may be os9 only though!
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PLEASE!! don't ever mention Johnson gear. Johnson is a trade name registered by a german company called AXL/Gerhard Lutz GMBH to make themselves sound more Anglo American. After 20years of making Johnson guitars I had to drop my domain name and scr@p all the inlaid head veneers, logos, and guitar cases that I'd had manufactured 'cos they were going to sue my arse off.
If my name was Gerhard Lutz I'd want to changs it but is that really a good excuse?
'Just a bit of history, not really a gripe. :D
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I really want something that has at least a few sensible bass amp models mixed in with the guitar models; I think the PodXT has only guitars, while the Pod Bass has only basses--which is kinda lame.
The Korg have merged the guitar & bass pandoras, so you could have a look at those.
Kilby...
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Bob - I think you might have won that case, but £££££ to lawyers would have probably bankrupted you anyway!
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Here's my boards...by popular demand - they've been cut back since Tim saw them...and not quite 100% there yet!
My digi camera's not been the same since I took it on a boat at Niagra falls....sorry about the fuzzy images!
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ooh you have the King of Tone! I've been checking that out for a while, but the waiting lists scare me off! how long did you have to wait, and how do you find the pedal?
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One of teh best ODs I've played - very open and dynamic, sounds perfect pushing a fender amp. beefs up clean tones too!
Only had about a month to wait - I got on the list very early (I have number 122). The new ones are more flexible - they have two gains, mine only has one for both channels :( but mike balanced the gain to make them usable. Sounds great! If Tim's OK with it I could bring it down to Music Live!
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I've had a few multiFX do-dah's in the past. Started off with a ZOOM GFX-707, it was OK for a few months, then I noticed that the sounds coming out weren't the one's in my head, but were buzzy, tinny approximations of some prat trying to play guitar. The prat trying to play guitar remains, the ZOOM didn't. At the time I was doing a part time recording course at the local college, so I needed something versatile enough to arse about with, but sounded as real as possible without breaking the limited gear budget, so I bought a BOSS ME-30. Far more usable than the 707, and better sounding (though still a bit tinny). That then went to buy a POD v2.3, which I kept for some time. Then, not long after they came out, I p/x-ed the POD 2 for a PODxt, which I still have, and use for recording at home.
The mutliFX / modeller argument will go on for a long, long time to come, and although I like my PODxt, I still wouldn't sell my amp for one. But I would sell one to buy a good amp. ;)
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I suppose this thread is really about "EFFECTS", after all, and not modelling. I've never liked the multiFX boards much -- even though I used the built-in COSM amp modelling in my Roland VS-1680 for recording, I still stuck my old Boss stompboxes in front of it when I wanted an effect. There's nothing I love better than abusing the dials on an old analogue delay pedal for outrageous Dr. Who noises :). (OK, there are some things I like better, but let's leave that aside for the moment :).) Anyway, it's tough to do that live, in real time, with a multiFX foot block thingy. (Either sort of thing .... :wink:)
On the other hand, I love "bang for buck", and love the ability to be able to record screaming, brutal, guitar thunder that sounds "pretty good, actually, for a computer" with nothing more to be heard in the room than some string plinking and a dim white-noise roar leaking from the headphones. So I really like the idea of digital amp modelling even if I haven't really found something I like well enough to plunk down a pile of cash on.
Hmm, I suppose something like the Boss GS-10 would emulate my old stomp boxes and give me a mix of guitar and bass amp models, as well as an OS X editor. Darned expensive in the UK, but I might be able to get one cheaper in the US sometime. Meanwhile, I've still got my old analogue delay pedal (works great with the bass -- makes a f*@&ing f*@&ed up noise :twisted:).
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HJM, if you're using Fender amplification you've got to have something to push it; (B J jumps back into foxhole and and tightens straps on tin hat)
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Agreed - that's what the Analogman King of Tone and Tubescreamers are for! :P
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Sulk,
I just want to get a job back at home in Belfast, start work on analogue some amp emulators again
Unless one of the luthors around here want a trainee that will work for coffee (my shift pattern gives me one week in 3 off)
HINT HINT
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HJM what Fender amps are you reffering to?
When I get the rare opportunity to play though a Bassman or an old "Twin" I need a TS-9. But those times are really rare.
Nowadays I mostly get my hands on newer Blues Deville and Hot Rod series.
I pretty much retire all my OD pedals when using a Deville. The Drive and More Drive (What a stupid name ,but hey) give all the drive I need.
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Anyway getting back on topic as such....
Try an ME-50 the're really good. Little bit fiddely for live Cover band work but much better than most stuff around.
As for home practicing I cannot give a bigger recommendations to a Boss BR-864 or the cd burning version th BR-900CDR
Its a good phrase trainer, 8 track recorder, practicing tool, mobile adlib amp modeler that can be D.I. straight into a P.A. It does so much EASILY.
It also has modelling for typical situations that can be trimmed to taste. Which is absolutely invaluable for novices. There is no point have 50 bazillion effects if you have no Idea how to use them.
The BR-864 will let you select an amp model with a range of effects setup for a specific situation, Trim the sound till its close. Then you have an idea of what you need in the "real" world to attain the tone you want.
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HJM what Fender amps are you reffering to?
When I get the rare opportunity to play though a Bassman or an old "Twin" I need a TS-9. But those times are really rare.
Nowadays I mostly get my hands on newer Blues Deville and Hot Rod series.
I pretty much retire all my OD pedals when using a Deville. The Drive and More Drive (What a stupid name ,but hey) give all the drive I need.
I've got a Super Reverb :P
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I've got a HRD and I can get near enough as much drive as I want from the clean channel. I was using a Java Boost for a while but I found the 'more drive' option sounds pretty similar so the pedal's on the shelf for the moment. When I get the chance I'm going to experiment with the Java Boost into a stock TS9 (another pedal sitting in it's box) to see what happens.
In recent times I've got really fussy about what goes on my pedal board - at present it's just TU2 tuner, Keeley Compressor and Boss CE5 chorus. I play in a covers band and I've come to realise that just playing with the volume knob gets me surprisingly close to most of the sounds I'm after.
HJM, I'm interested in your fender setup as you have the Keeley compressor (which I've got), the Beano Boost (which I believe is similar to the Java), a Clone Chorus (which I'm thinking of getting) and a King of Tone (which I've considered in the past). How do you find these work together and what sort of tones do they give you - especially the King of Tone?
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The KOT gives a really dynamic break up, it's like a very refined blues driver, but better. There's no pronounced mids, very littly compression. Works very well with a good tube amp as you get the natural amp response on top of the pedal response, as you pick you get drive from the pedal and compression from the amp. The clean setting thickens up my Super Reverb in the midrange, makes it sound like it's louder than it is.
I use the Clone to give me a leslie type effect, although it will do some great chorus type tones, like Gilmours tones on Dark Side and Andy Summers type strat chorus with the Keeley Comp. Works very well with the KOT.
The Comp I don't use very often with the KOT - I find it destroys the interaction between the KOT and amp, but sounds great for fusion leads with the TS9 and Clone.
The Beano I use with the Marshalls, I prefer it to my Java the mids seam stronger and clearer, I'm going to sell my Java Boost following it's eviction!
The only sound I can't get with the Fender rig is the one I get with my Marshalls....deliberate that!
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I wonder if what would happen if you bought every single effects pedal, distortion pedal etc in the world! Connected them all up, then turned every single knob up to the max, pushed every button and had two 700 watt speakers at your disposal....turned up to full volume.
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I wonder if what would happen if you bought every single effects pedal, distortion pedal etc in the world! Connected them all up, then turned every single knob up to the max, pushed every button and had two 700 watt speakers at your disposal....turned up to full volume.
I guess there would be a lot of noise, feedback, crackling... and it would be loud![/u]
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I wonder if what would happen if you bought every single effects pedal, distortion pedal etc in the world! Connected them all up, then turned every single knob up to the max, pushed every button and had two 700 watt speakers at your disposal....turned up to full volume.
It'd probably be like that scene in Back To The Future where Michael J Fox plugs into that amp and gets blown half way across the room :D
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Sweet....
Hey guys, i got an idea! :lol:
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use Johnny Macs amp to run them through... or maybe a 350w Mode4!