Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: karx on September 22, 2008, 12:48:47 PM
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Hello guys!
My guitar is a Gibson Les Paul Custom RI 68 with 57 classics and I am interested in a bridge pickup. The band whose tone I like is Tool and secondly Isis. I play mostly post-rock, post-metal.
I use a lot of distortion but I don't play with the full gain of the preamp distortion. I like to keep the preamp volume and gain down and master volume up to have more definition and not lose the harmonics and dynamics of my playing. I play a lot with the volume of the guitar, so cleaning up is an important factor.
I like dark tones with crunch and I would like the notes to sound fatter. Especially one thing I would like to avoid are ear piercing highs. I don't need a super tight bass, just more than the stock pickups. Also don't like upper mids.
In some clips I liked the nailbomb and in a few the holydriver (though in some not at all), the problem with the holydriver is that it sometimes sounds very 80s and I don't like that. Can it sound more modern or would the nailbomb be better? And does the nailbomb have a lot of upper mids?
I would prefer an alcino 5 magnet. Would an open poled pickup sound brighter than a covered?
Thank you!
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Hi there Karx! Welcome ! Holy Diver has come out in past conversations about Tool. I have read their description very similar to what you are looking for..!
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Cant' say that i know what sort of tone tool have, but from you're description i'd be tempted to go for either a mule or the hotter crawler - especially if you're into dynamics and riding the volume.
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to me, a key ingredient here for TOOL is the amp-I have a Dual Rec and 2 Mk IIC+ amps and I am a big fan of the A Jones tone-there is a very crisp ,less compressed sound going on here to me(a lot can be attributed to Chancellor's bass tone and playing as well...)-for me, the MULE wins here -it sounds great with the dropped D tuning-my Rebel Yell is more compressed sounding, so it loses some clarity-the Mule allows for more bite/clarity,especially with the open D riffs/chords that Jones plays higher on the neck-my mark amps are simulclass, and that helps(both el 34 and 6L6)-I have had a Holy Diver , Miracle Man, and Crawler, and I would rank my experience via Tool as follows: 1-Mule(its an AIV) 2. crawler 3. Rebel Yell.....my amps,however, are a big part of this "tonal experiment"
enjoy your quest!
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I agree that the Mule is bang on for Tool sound. However, you said you wanted one that could clean up with the volume control, so it might work better for you with higher output. The Mule does much better clean on the clean channel IMO. Crawler is my recommendation. It can do a really good hot-PAF sound and it's got very smooth highs so unless your amp is a scream machine, you wont get your ears pierced.
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Thanks for your replies.
Shaman, really helpful things what you just said about adam jones' tone. I agree with all that you said and especially the amp's factor.
What i don't like about his tone , is that crisp tone, sometimes shrill in the higher notes (did notice that when I saw them live). I would like a little beefier tone, warmer. That's why i ruled out the mule and was thinking more about the holydiver and nailbomb.
Tim emailed me and said the nailbomb would be the choice for the tone i'm looking.
What bothers me, is that reading through the forum, some people say that the holydiver has more low mids and the nailbomb more upper mids. So I'm a little confused. My guitar is quite bright with the gibson 57 classics. Would it become darker,warmer with the nailbomb in the higher notes? Or the holydiver would do that?
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I still own an original 88' Gibson Les Paul Standard Silverburst (maple cap/ebony fretboard) with factory EMG 85 pickups and it's an awesome guitar to get that 'Tool' sound. The bridge pickup is tight, deep, scary and dark with an amazing sustain and cut, both clean and distorted (I'm playing through an Engl).
It sounds 100% like for example the intro from 'Schism'. You CAN'T get that sound out of the lower output BKP pickups, my two cents.
I think you really have to take a look at EMG 85 pickups, despite the fact that you probably love BKP pickups (like me and many others).
The Alnico V EMG 85 pickups are just plain awesome if you want to get instant 'Tool' vibe.
Edit: I don't know what the 'F' happened, but I've made a new topic by accidence. Sorry for that! It was meant for Karx, as a reply to his topic about finding the right bridge pickup for his Les Paul Custom.
Fixed ... sorta PDT_008
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If you want an "organic" tone BKP is just the right pickup. A Jones has gone thru different amps and different tone/experimentation thru the Tool years. BKPs do not only fit an specific tone but they are versatile. Needless to say any of the BKP pups would sound way better than the SDs AJs uses on his Silverburst. You might go the way of Tim Mills, give it a try.
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It's so difficult to give the right advice, as we all play through different amps/pedals etc.
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Thanks for your replies.
Shaman, really helpful things what you just said about adam jones' tone. I agree with all that you said and especially the amp's factor.
What i don't like about his tone , is that crisp tone, sometimes shrill in the higher notes (did notice that when I saw them live). I would like a little beefier tone, warmer. That's why i ruled out the mule and was thinking more about the holydiver and nailbomb.
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...cool..I was strictly referring to his riffing/chugging..NOT his lead work...good thing is, the MULE rules with lead work as well-I do not play in a TOOl cover band(who can find a DAnny Carey anyway>>???)but I do dig that chuggy tone AJ gets :D
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The Mule is alnico IV which sounds woody/punchy by nature. I can imagine it would sound great for the bridge position of the LP Custom, if you want to warm it up there.
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Thanks for your really helpful answers! This forum is cool with all you guys!
At least, I'm down to 3 pickups. The mule, nailbomb and holydiver.
I bet all of them are amazing.
I guess I'm going to listen again to some clips with lespauls, or just go with what tim said.
@shaman how would you compare the holydiver to the mule? In the eq especially. Does the holydiver sound a little too 80's?
@yamhammer thanks you for all your help. I'm more into the undertow tone, when his was playing with his marshall superbass. Amazing tone! It was kind of dark with a beautifull gain
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Also what do you recommend to get the post rock tone, like isis, with the above pickups?
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In the players room you can search: 'Holy Diver improv in Les Paul'. That should give you an idea about how it sounds like in a Les Paul Standard.
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Adam Jones uses a Duncan JB -> Diezel + Marshall. I'll add my 2 cents by saying that amp choice and his use of the bridge volume pot has a lot to do with his sound. The Diezel VH4 has a lot of thump. Isis use Marshalls, don' t they?
Can't help with the HD, but the Mule is a fantastic pickup although it's not high output enough to drive the preamp too much which is something that you may want to think about. The Nailbomb is a good call and if Tim's recommended it then it's hard to argue!
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Nice.
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Thanks for your really helpful answers! This forum is cool with all you guys!
@shaman how would you compare the holydiver to the mule? In the eq especially. Does the holydiver sound a little too 80's?
the hd was a little too compressed for me-of course, my amps have massive pre amp gain on tap, so I like more "vintage" heat to let my amps "do their thing"-
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The most important factor is to know how your stock Gibson pickups sound in general in Les Pauls and how other people would describe them (eq-wise). Then you'll get a lot of information about how your new BKP pickup has to sound. Does it need more lows compared to the stock pickups? Do they have to sound warmer or brighter? etc.....The second step is to find as many info as you can about all different kind of BKP pickups. If Tim recommends you the Nailbomb, then it should be good, but if you think (based on stories/samples/reviews) it needs just a tiny bit more thickness compared to the Nailbombs then you have to follow your instict and get a Holydiver or whatever you think that sounds better for YOUR Les Paul Custom.
That was a very helpful post and I 've been thinking what's my biggest problem with my stock pickups.
What I dislike the most is that my guitar with the stock pickups is fairly bright, as a result I don't enjoy playing on the higher strings, notes. I want a thicker and darker tone overall. Even with the boogie single rectifier and soldano avenger, my guitar was kinda bright, treblish. I couldn't get that dark thick tone I have in mind.
I read in the forum that the holydiver is darker than the nailbomb. Maybe that's the pickup I need.
I guess I have to experiment and maybe my first choice will be wrong.
the hd was a little too compressed for me-of course, my amps have massive pre amp gain on tap, so I like more "vintage" heat to let my amps "do their thing"-
Got the point 8). Was the holydiver darker overall?
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I can say without hesitation all BK's I have played blow those stock pups away-when I got rid of the burstbuckers in one of my Standards, for instance, I knew BK was for real-the BBuckers had the same characteristics you mention-almost ice pick-ish,not what I was expecting-there was just something about the HD I didnt like as much as the Mule I dropped in later-(this is in a 91 LP Custom)...yes, I would say darker..the Mule just seems to RIP more with my setup-more versatile for my tone(the Mule even gets me into Paul Gilbert lead tone...now if it could just help me with Paul Gilbert precision... :D)
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Since you've mentioned wanting fat tone from the treble strings, I'd say Nailbomb - when I had this pickup in my Explorer it had a gorgeous fat treble-string tone quite unlike any other pickup I've ever tried, but still with enough cut (i.e. not dull/muffled).
The NB also has good definition in the bass end and a fairly forward midrange overall.
I have no experience with the Holy Diver, but have used the Mule, Miracle Man, Crawler and Black Dog in my Les Paul.
Other than the Nailbomb, I'd suggest the Crawler if you want something slightly less progressive sounding and more of a 'scorching-hot-PAF' tone.
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holy diver = almost instant tool and jerry cantrell (with the right guitars/amps) :lol:
srsly.
of course a nailbomb or crawler, even the mule will do it well too, but I think the holy diver is hard to beat on this one
specially on the THICK lead tones
the holy diver can do 80's stuff, but doesn't sound 80ish by itself
sounds very fat, modern and clear
more modern rock than 80's hard/metal
ps: try greenbacks with your amps
they will make the bass more focused than v30's, but the midrange gets a lot thicker and less spikey
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I've ordered a CS neck pickup and CS bridge.
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Glad for you my friend!
I emailed Tim again asking him about his thoughts on the holydiver and a mule AV.
I want versatility (for some rage against the machine style too) and a darker, thicker sound compare to the gisbon 57 classics.
As soon as he answers me I'm going to order the pickup.
I'll report back soon about my choice and my experience once I get my bkp pickup
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Holy Diver sounds like it will cover that. Just to cut through with lead, I think a boost at 2K really helps
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I'm curious to hear what pickup Tim recommends you :)
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I got Tim's e-mail and he still thinks that the nailbomb is the pickup that suits me best.
I'm just going to order it as I trust him and share my thoughts in about a 3 weeks.
Thanks to all of you for your help.
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VERY NICE! :)
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Just wanted to report back about the nailbomb.
Yesterday put it in my guitar.
Everything I said that I wanted in my first post has been achieved.
The nailbomb has just the right amount of tightness, the highs are incredible, smooth not shrill or piercing,nice balanced basses and the mids are right there to cut through the mix.
I think it's a very balanced and versatile pick up. It also cleans up superbly (I'm really surprised about that).
I'm really happy that I listened to Tim and got the nailbomb!
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Nailbombs are superb, aren't they?
But there's a saying on this forum - if there are no clips, it doesn't exist...
;-)
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But there's a saying on this forum - if there are no clips, it doesn't exist...
I'll be very careful never to praise my BKPs again...
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Yes they're amazing!
As I don't have the proper recording equipment here's a pic of the black cover nailbomb bridge in my Gibson LP 68 Custom VOS
(http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/5872/dsc4977iyb4.jpg)
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Ahh!... a LP custom!! Very beautiful guitar, I like the black Nailbomb on it. Cheers!!!
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beautiful guitar- great pic.