Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: Philly Q on October 05, 2008, 04:06:28 PM
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Still trying to find a neck for my Strat and (ignoring Warmoth for the moment) I've been looking at Fender necks on eBay. There seems to be a huge variance in the appearance of rosewood fingerboards. Some look beautiful and glossy like this:
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/phillyq/a444_1.jpg)
Others look hideous and dry like this:
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/phillyq/1b0d_1.jpg)
Or even this:
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/phillyq/d2e7_1.jpg)
The third one is an extreme example, most don't look anywhere near that bad, but those are all American Fender necks. In general the Deluxes look amazing, the American Standards look good and the Highway Ones look dry - but it doesn't seem to be a simple case of different "grades" of timber, sometimes the colour and grain patterns are very similar but the H1s still look dry.
Now of course some lemon oil or similar would make those dry necks look instantly better, but I'm not really talking about that. Can anything else be done to "repair" the dry looking wood? Would simply sanding with finer grades of paper, for example, improve things? Is there a way to "buff" the bare wood and give it a shine?
Or is it a simple case of "bad looking = bad" and there's nothing to be done?
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I use fret doctor (http://www.beafifer.com/boredoctor.htm) for that, it made my epiphones board look pretty nice, worked quite well on the rosewood tailpiece/bridge on my acoustic as well.
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most will polish up a bit more with wire wool and elbow grease. for the really dry ones i would use an oil that actually sets in the wood like danish oil. give it a few coats and buff of the excess after 5 minutes, then polish with wire wool after a few days
i dont think its going to be bad just because it lacks some of the natural oils but it might mean a little more care and maintenance
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Yeah, I use Fret Doctor too, but some of these necks look "rough" as well as just dry. I imagine the nore upmarket Fenders get a bit of extra work on the fretboards.
Fender says the new American Standards have "the maple or rosewood fingerboard buffed to a high gloss". It's obvious what that means on the maple ones, but I wonder if the rosewood ones have been treated with something like Danish Oil as Wez described?
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Just coming back to that Danish Oil point, would the oft-mentioned Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil gun stock finish be suitable for a fretboard? Would it bring out the colour(s) in the wood and is it easy to clean off the frets?
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i probably wouldnt use tru-oil for this as it sits on the wood to a certain degree. i am sure it would workok but danish oil will better replace the missing oils rather than be an actual finish. both will clean off the frets quite easily
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Thanks Wez. I've just been doing some research on Tru-Oil, I hadn't appreciated the extent to which it's a "finish" rather than an "oil". I certainly don't want to be putting a finish, as such, on a rosewood fingerboard.
This stuff is somewhat confusing without actually trying the products concerned! :?
I suppose what I should really do is have the patience to wait for a neck with a fingerboard that looks fine to begin with :roll: . It's going to cost good money, so why try to rescue a problem one.
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I always use oil for my fretboards. I don't even know what kind of oil it is. It came with my mahogany recorder (some 25 years ago).
I once had a guitar with a very dry and anemic looking rosewood fretboard. First I oiled it, then I rubbed in a little dark shoe polish and then I gave it the beeswax treatment. Great results.
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I always use pure raw linseed oil ( the un-boiled variety ) on my rosewood fretboards and it works a treat. I picked up the idea from Dan Erwlwine's book ' Make your guitar play great'.
I used to use Lemon oil, but now use the remainder of my lemon oil to clean the fingerboard ( if needed ) - then proceed with the Linseed oil treatment. Lovely dark, supple finish . It feels like silk under the fingers. :)
I read a lot on 'The Gear Page' forum about folks using 'bore oil' - as used to keep the inside of woodwind instruments from drying out. This is probably what 'Ratrod' refered to . Meanwhile, I am more than happy with the raw linseed option. :D
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bore oil is supposed to work well but i havnt got around to trying it myself yet.
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Thanks Derek. I've read about the linseed oil option, but there seem to be very conflicting opinions! Dan Erlewine says to use the un-boiled, raw variety, but other sources say you should only use boiled linseed oil as the raw type can remain slightly tacky and pick up bits of dirt, skin etc - which all sounds rather unpleasant. I haven't tried either type, but I do have vague memories of linseed oil being used for school cricket bats, and that was horrible sticky muck.
I have some bottles of Fret Doctor which is basically bore oil. The chap who makes it, Ed Boyle, is a fifer and that's what he originally developed it for. It's good stuff, much better than lemon oil.
I'm still not entirely sure, though, why you can pick up two "identical" Strats and one will have a nice glossy fingerboard but the other will look dry, when presumably they've both been through exactly the same processes. It seems to me that the dry piece just isn't as "good", even if it can be improved with oil treatment.
I feel like I'm trying to talk myself into buying a dry rosewood neck when I really should be waiting for a nicer one to turn up.
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I'm still not entirely sure, though, why you can pick up two "identical" Strats and one will have a nice glossy fingerboard but the other will look dry, when presumably they've both been through exactly the same processes. It seems to me that the dry piece just isn't as "good", even if it can be improved with oil treatment.
One might have been in Fenders shed for a bit longer than the other.
Remember to clean the figer poo off the board before treating it.
Also, I tried to clean a rosewood board that was very dry (not been touched since the 70's) with a bit of water and wirewool and managed to put fine scratches in it, so if playing with the wire wool and a really dry board, be extra careful.
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C'mon Phil do the right thing!!!
(http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/necks/large/SN5550A.jpg)
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C'mon Phil do the right thing!!!
:lol:
I haven't seen that one on the Warmoth site, it must be one of the neck shapes I don't like!
You're right, getting a Warmoth neck is the sensible thing to do, it's actually cheaper (probably) than getting a Fender neck and I know I can get nice timber etc. The only things putting me off are:
(a) It'll need some work on the frets and I really prefer "rolled" fingerboard edges - so extra cost or do it myself and potentially f*ck it up;
(b) I really want a logo on the headstock but I don't know what to get (if not Fender). And it'll be a hassle to finish over the logo;
(c) I'd like both Strats to have the same neck shape, otherwise one will become the "favourite" and the other will gather dust.
(I know the answer to (c) is "buy two Warmoth necks" but I don't want to go there!)
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(a) Don't know how it's, as asked for have straight edge on my neck, not helping here
(b) There is a plenty of guys who makes logos, some does even Fender logos :lol: I would make something different but with the same font, gives the look but shows that is not Fender... If you played Punk or Metal I would say to put a F**ker logo :lol:
(c) You know, don't you?? :D
My feeling of guiltness by making you buy both bodies are falling, so I'll start to bug you about it :lol:
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My feeling of guiltness by making you buy both bodies are falling, so I'll start to bug you about it :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
That really did make me laugh out loud!
I'll probably break down eventually....
I would go for a Fender-lookalike word on the logo (I know Phil King has Fecker), but I can't think of a word that actually means anything to me.
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As promised, I've solved the problem :lol:
For the purple:
(http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/necks/SN4888a.jpg)
http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/sc_guitar_necks.cfm?type=guitar&start=1&menuItem=11&itemNumber=SN4888&subMenuItem=0&subMenuItem2=0&backContour_filter=9
For the natural:
(http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/necks/SN4512a.jpg)
http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/sc_guitar_necks.cfm?type=guitar&start=1&menuItem=11&itemNumber=SN4512&subMenuItem=0&subMenuItem2=0&backContour_filter=9#
I believe some guy can make Philly looks very near Fender :D
None more custom, don't you agree?
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:) Not bad, not bad...
The maple is a problem, I'd need to get unfinished if I wanted to do "rolled" fingerboard edges.
For the rosewood, I don't want vintage tint because it would look funny on the natural ash body. And birdseye is too pretty. I'm going to surprise you now, because I'm actually considering some different timbers :o :
Pau Ferro:
(http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/necks/SN4382A.jpg)
http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/sc_guitar_necks.cfm?type=guitar&itemNumber=SN4382&backContour_filter=9 (http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/sc_guitar_necks.cfm?type=guitar&itemNumber=SN4382&backContour_filter=9)
And Kingwood:
(http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/necks/SN4530A.jpg)
http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/sc_guitar_necks.cfm?type=guitar&itemNumber=SN4530&backContour_filter=9 (http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/sc_guitar_necks.cfm?type=guitar&itemNumber=SN4530&backContour_filter=9)
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They have Brazilian boards :? Now very confused.
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Will, yes, but they can't send Brazilian RW outside USA... I would bet they have a big stock or can buy it from some guys who make plantation of it, because there is pratically none left on wild forests... (it's not from Amazon, before you ask)
Phill, I think that vintage tint would look the best with the natural guitar, as it's not very white, but yellow... And that one I picked is not THAT yellow vintage
And you don't need to get it unfinished to round the edge of the frets :D
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I'm going to surprise you now, because I'm actually considering some different timbers :o :
Ahhh with a little more effort from me, you'll have an Wenge neck with Macassar Ebony fingerboard... probably with a maple veneer on the headstock, but it's still ALL EXOTIC :twisted:
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Preview, looking good to me...
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Phill, I think that vintage tint would look the best with the natural guitar, as it's not very white, but yellow... And that one I picked is not THAT yellow vintage
The natural shade of mine is more light brown than yellow - it looks OK with a very slightly tinted maple neck, but definitely not anything orange like an Eric Johnson!
OK, just an off-the-wall idea - what do you think of this?
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/phillyq/telehead3.jpg)
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Headstock looks wrong, and the single coils aren't at enough of an angle there :P
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Headstock looks wrong, and the single coils aren't at enough of an angle there :P
Oh, I couldn't be bothered to arse about getting the pickups perfect. :P
I think the Tele headstock looks surprisingly cool (although kisekae have got the shape a bit wrong). Tommy Bolin had a Strat with a Tele neck.
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/phillyq/Tommy-Bolin-The-Ultimate-Redu-42553.jpg)
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It looks fine Phill, if you've told me it before I saw the pic I would say "should be hideous" as usually I don't like mixing parts, but looking at it, I think it's ok!
EDIT: Yes, looking at your thread of the bodies, it looks less yellow than this one I had picture...
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i like it - - but my first ever squire strat ended up stripped down, torty scratchplate and maple tele neck so it kind of looks familiar to me. Just remember the difference in neck pockets between strats and tele's if you do go that way
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i like it - - but my first ever squire strat ended up stripped down, torty scratchplate and maple tele neck so it kind of looks familiar to me. Just remember the difference in neck pockets between strats and tele's if you do go that way
:) Yeah, in this case I'd round off the heel of the Tele neck, rather than carving up the pocket in the Strat body - the overhanging 22nd fret would hide the mess. And I'd have the option of changing to a conventional Strat neck at a later date.
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Allen Collins used a tele necked strat as well :D
(Not saying I'm crazy about it, but it's a very good precedent :lol:)
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I like the tele necked version
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I'm nearly sold on the Tele idea, it works doesn't it? :)
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I have Pau Ferro and Kingwood fingerboards and they look very nice (especially kingwood). I have a strat body with a tele neck. It is about 2.5" deep because it has a hollow swamp ash body that is a standard strat depth, with a 5/8" quilted maple top on it. I rounded the heel on the tele neck to fit the strat pocket and went for a worn look on the fingerboard lacquer.
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I have a strat body with a tele neck. It is about 2.5" deep because it has a hollow swamp ash body that is a standard strat depth, with a 5/8" quilted maple top on it. I rounded the heel on the tele neck to fit the strat pocket and went for a worn look on the fingerboard lacquer.
Looks good. Did you have to get an extra long trem block for the Wilko?
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Looks good. Did you have to get an extra long trem block for the Wilko?
No it has a regular Wilkinson trem which just clears the spring cavity, though the cavity is deeper than a regular strat. When I looked at the body it really didn't look right with a Strat neck. The tele headstock made it look much better. I think Rory Galagher had a strat with a tele neck at one point. The custom shop also makes the opposite, a Strat/Tele hybrid which I have seen John Mayer using. It looks pretty dire in this pic, but is better in the flesh.
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The custom shop also makes the opposite, a Strat/Tele hybrid which I have seen John Mayer using. It looks pretty dire in this pic, but is better in the flesh.
It's horrible in that colour, but I just remembered there's a similar Suhr model which looks pretty funky:
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/phillyq/CTS_btm2_big.jpg)
(Edit: the Suhr has a slimmer bottom horn and a side mounted jack, which improves the appearance a lot, somehow.)
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Just remember the difference in neck pockets between strats and tele's if you do go that way
How could I forgot that (http://216.211.140.132/Smileys/Lots_O_Smileys/doh3.gif)
:) Yeah, in this case I'd round off the heel of the Tele neck, rather than carving up the pocket in the Strat body - the overhanging 22nd fret would hide the mess. And I'd have the option of changing to a conventional Strat neck at a later date.
From Warmoth it's + US$45, as they would get a paddle headstock and cut it by hand in Tele design... all handwork from them is that price...
I'm nearly sold on the Tele idea, it works doesn't it? :)
I would tell you: not everybody will like it, but what is really important is you like it... So, if you like it, goe for it! I think it's a little bit odd, but nice!
EDIT: looks better to me that than the Strat headstock on teles!
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Regarding the Tele head Strat, it's like the inverse twin of Steve Morse's old Tele (now there's some big headstock love). As for the linseed oil, remember it can spontaneously combust so be careful if you choose that route ;)
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Regarding the Tele head Strat, it's like the inverse twin of Steve Morse's old Tele (now there's some big headstock love). As for the linseed oil, remember it can spontaneously combust so be careful if you choose that route ;)
Yeah, I'm going to steer clear of the linseed oil. I'll get a neck with a fretboard that isn't dry in the first place. It was just impatience seeing some of the drier-looking necks on eBay.
You're right about Steve Morse's old Tele, I thought about that a few times when I was trying the Tele-headstock-on-Strat look.
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The more you mention the tele headstock on the strat the more I think I want one :(
Now of course I'm thinking of a strat with a reverse tele headstock (but I'm in work and don't have the opportunity to mock something up)
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(but I'm in work and don't have the opportunity to mock something up)
:D
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Looks pretty good. I like reverse headstocks, and the way they change the string tension a bit. The only thing I don't like is the way the logos end up looking funny because they weren't designed to be upside-down.
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Heheheh,
I can't decide whether I like that or not (I think I do), but it actually looks more lopsided than a full sized strat headstock (which is rather a strange situation)
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Thanks Derek. I've read about the linseed oil option, but there seem to be very conflicting opinions! Dan Erlewine says to use the un-boiled, raw variety, but other sources say you should only use boiled linseed oil as the raw type can remain slightly tacky and pick up bits of dirt, skin etc - which all sounds rather unpleasant. I haven't tried either type, but I do have vague memories of linseed oil being used for school cricket bats, and that was horrible sticky muck.
Hi again Phil, :)
Regarding the potential / reputed ' sticky' nature of raw linseed oil; I found that the 'secret' ( as mentioned by Dan Erlwine ) is to get it on the wood - and then buffed off within 2 -3 minutes. I found a warm finger seemed to drive it into the grain quite nicely, and when I had gone about 5 - 6 frets up the neck doing this, I reverted to buffing off that small section of fretboard. It does not need to be on there long to achieve optimum results. Just to be absolutely sure, I started again at the first fret and repeated the procedure - but the first dose of oil had already done the best of the work.
So, the ideal seems to be push it into the grain with a warm finger, then get it off within 2-3 minutes. That way there was no trace of stickiness. Dan opined that the players with sticky guitar necks have usually let it sit there for too long and / or not buffed it up hard enough and soon enough. When I followed the 'rules' - I had great results.
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the same technique should be used with danish oil and is also the way i would do it if using tru-oil on a fretboard. The stickiness kind of goes on a rough scale from raw linseed oil - - - danish oil - - - tru-oil.
Basically the amount of chemicals added to danish oil and tru-oil means it will actually harden off in the wood more than a raw oil will.. tru-oil will actually harden off on the wood if left which is what allows it to be built up almost to a lacquer like finish
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You guys buffs it with what? those buffing machines?
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An old t-shirt works well - if it was tru-oil being used i would rub it right back with 0000 wire wool bu the other oild just need a polish with a soft cloth
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Thanks :D
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So I got a Tele neck. It's a nice one, so no dry fingerboard issues, hopefully:
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/phillyq/44a6_1.jpg)
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/phillyq/422b_1.jpg)
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/phillyq/42b4_1.jpg)
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Going to change the countour of the end of the neck yourself or let Mr Feline or Wez do it?
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An old t-shirt works well - if it was tru-oil being used i would rub it right back with 0000 wire wool bu the other oild just need a polish with a soft cloth
+1 on the t-shirt. I just use an off cut from an old t-shirt or similar soft material - as I want to fully control the procedure and keep it simple. I assume a motorised buffer would give an uneven ( and excessive ) pressure.
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Going to change the countour of the end of the neck yourself or let Mr Feline or Wez do it?
I'll definitely do that myself, it'll be easy enough unless I have a router accident (fingers crossed). :)
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I did mine with a surform file and sandpaper!
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Yeah, I've considered just filing it but it'll be easy to make a quick router template with some hardboard, then it'll take no time and (hopefully) look neat.
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Cheers! Hope everything go fine! :drink:
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I wasn't too sure what you guys were on about, so I've been looking at pictures - strats seem to have a rounded end, teles a flatter end? Is that it? (But the pictures posted in this thread seem to be the other way round - I'm intrigued...)
Anyway, er, good luck Philly! :lol:
EDIT: Ah, found Wez's earlier post and Philly's reply... that does seem to be what you're all saying.
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I wasn't too sure what you guys were on about, so I've been looking at pictures - strats seem to have a rounded end, teles a flatter end? Is that it? (But the pictures posted in this thread seem to be the other way round - I'm intrigued...)
Yeah, the pics I used at the start of the thread all happened to be Tele necks, just because they were good examples of dry fingerboards. I wasn't really thinking of actually buying a Tele neck at that point. :)
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I've used Leblanc bore oil on everything, but hell, my dad's a clarinetist, its the only oil I have! But it does work bloody well.