Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: Alex on October 09, 2008, 08:39:54 PM
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This upsets me: :shock:
"There's no doubt about it. Some people have certainly come to see Billy Idol slither out of his shirt to reveal a chiselled six-pack you could shatter boards on. Others are here to take a trip down memory lane [..] 80s radio and all. But not a single soul here at this sold-out 5,000-capacity night has paid money to watch Billy Idol guitarist Steve Stevens shiteee out a seemingly eternal 15-minute guitar solo, that begins with the theme to Top Gun and, even more idiotically, ends with a spot of flamenco. A shame, considering the first half of tonight's [..] set..."
(Classic Rock, Oct 2008, p.112)
What???? Steve Stevens would have probably been my highlight at that show!!! :( Have we guitar players become so unpopular with critics nowadays? :(
(modifiy: they used the word $hit not shite in the magazine; yep, they really did)
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If it really was a "15-minute guitar solo", without any accompaniment from the rhythm section, then I'm with the reviewer. I thought wanky shite like that ended in about 1989.
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I would rather they dropped the extended version of LA Woman
Their version is good but it is such an awful song to begin with - I would rather hear 2 of Billy's other songs than a cover of that bit of rubbish.
Van Halen bored me silly with his 15 minute solo in 1984 . Again I would rather have heard some songs
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Last night I thought Philly was a bit harsh :lol: - but actually, no, I think I agree.
I would love to be transported back in time and see, for example, Jimmy Page's extended violin-bowing or wotever, when it was "new". I would NOT want to see him do it now :lol:
And Jonathan's post reminds me - I was bored absolutely stupid by Brian May's solo at Knebworth :o :o (considering I still love listening to the equivalent on Live Killers!)
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I would love to be transported back in time and see, for example, Jimmy Page's extended violin-bowing or wotever, when it was "new". I would NOT want to see him do it now :lol:
At the time, there was a reason for it, he was actually trying to explore, do something new and unique. Now it would just be "the violin bow bit" because "that's what Jimmy Page does".
There was a time in the mid to late '80s when every rock/metal band had a shred guitar player. And somewhere in the middle of every show, Mr Shred would be left on stage alone and would go wee-wee-wee-diddle-diddle-diddle-waaaOOOOWWW-skreeeeee for 10-15 minutes. It was absolute garbage and I hated it even then. Thank god grunge came along and killed it.
Now I wouldn't have minded if the band had played a 15 minute instrumental, or even a 15 minute jam. That's music. The big solo spot isn't music, it's just showing off - "look at meeeeee and what I can do". :evil:
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And Jonathan's post reminds me - I was bored absolutely stupid by Brian May's solo at Knebworth :o :o (considering I still love listening to the equivalent on Live Killers!)
Steady on - Brian is still somewhat sacred round here.
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If it really was a "15-minute guitar solo", without any accompaniment from the rhythm section, then I'm with the reviewer. I thought wanky shitee like that ended in about 1989.
I hear ya, and I'm sagely nodding my head in agreement.
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That was the problem when I saw Frank Marino a couple of months ago. I left in his second 15 minute solo, though most of the show had been him just playing solos over bass and drums (you could only hear the other guitarist when he played the violin!).
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There was a time in the mid to late '80s when every rock/metal band had a shred guitar player. And somewhere in the middle of every show, Mr Shred would be left on stage alone and would go wee-wee-wee-diddle-diddle-diddle-waaaOOOOWWW-skreeeeee for 10-15 minutes. It was absolute garbage and I hated it even then. Thank god grunge came along and killed it.
Oh come off it, you're exaggerating just a little here :)
I was around in the 80s too, & I seriously don't remember anyone playing a shred solo spot for much longer than 5 mins (if that!).
OK, except Craig Goldie with Dio on the Dream Evil tour, but he did shoot a giant mechanical spider with a laser mid way through which would've woke up the philistines like you :razz: - & that was in a >2 hour Dio set so it's not like there was a shortage of songs to appreciate :)
& I just cannot agree that ignorant, intolerant, shoe-gazing grunge cr@p represented any sort of benefit or "renewal" (or any of the other hackneyed clichés used to describe it). It led to a whole generation of musicians that don't know how to play their instruments, didn't know how to smile, thought teen suicide & heroin overdoses were cool, as well as spawning some of the worst music journalism you'll ever read...
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& I just cannot agree that ignorant, intolerant, shoe-gazing grunge cr@p
I think your words are a little harsh. In what way could grunge be fairly described as "Intolerant" and "ignorant", It is only a musical style after all.
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And Jonathan's post reminds me - I was bored absolutely stupid by Brian May's solo at Knebworth :o :o (considering I still love listening to the equivalent on Live Killers!)
Steady on - Brian is still somewhat sacred round here.
Yeah, same here - which is why I was slightly disturbed by it at the time (still, twas a long time ago now, and the scars have healed :D).
It might be the particular solo on that tour - I was expecting the echo job plus interplay with drums and bass. But he was completely on his own, and he seemed to be using some sort of harmonizer for much of it.
But the rest of the gig, it was pretty much a "religious experience" for me... I'd wanted to see them for years (I passed up on the opportunity to see the Killers tour in Bristol :oops:), so when it finally got going at Knebworth (long, long day, loads of bands that were fine/ok, but I was there for Queen), it was absolutely "IT" for me, and I don't think any other gig I've been to has topped it (Aerosmith at Wembley a few years back is damn close though).
In general though - unless the instrumentalist manages to do something that's entertaining as well as clever (musical or theatrical) - then I'm with the "hey you could have fitted two of my favourite songs into the set instead" brigade... :lol:
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OK, except Craig Goldie with Dio on the Dream Evil tour, but he did shoot a giant mechanical spider with a laser mid way through which would've woke up the philistines like you :P
If he'd carried on playing the spider would've just gone to sleep. Craig Goldy is one of the most boring guitarists I've ever heard in my life.
& I just cannot agree that ignorant, intolerant, shoe-gazing grunge cr@p represented any sort of benefit or "renewal" (or any of the other hackneyed clichés used to describe it). It led to a whole generation of musicians that don't know how to play their instruments, didn't know how to smile, thought teen suicide & heroin overdoses were cool, as well as spawning some of the worst music journalism you'll ever read...
I think it's clear we're in disagreement here. :P :lol: (although I suspect in fact there's probably a surprising amount of overlap between our record collections).
Lots of '80s metal was great, I still listen to it and love it. What wasn't great (apart from the poodle hair, scarves tied around knees :roll: etc) was the way every hair metal band ended up with their own little Yngwie/Eddie wannabe who'd deliver a meaningless shred mini-epic in every one of their throwaway four-minute pop songs ("The Archies with fuzz guitars", to quote Frank Zappa). It was pap, it was boring, there was too much of it and it needed something to come along and shake things up just like punk did in the '70s. Was it really such a terrible thing (except for them personally) that Warrant, Trixter, Slaughter, Danger Danger, Tuff and Pretty Boy Floyd saw their careeers take a nosedive? There's nothing wrong with a new broom from time to time.
Are you really going to write off the whole of grunge as "ignorant, intolerant, shoe-gazing cr@p"? It had its share of dud bands like any other scene, but produced brilliant albums like Nirvana's Nevermind (obviously), Pearl Jam's Ten, Soundgarden's Badmotorfinger and Superunknown, Mother Love Bone, Temple of the Dog... And they may not have been grunge but we'd probably never have heard Alice In Chains if grunge hadn't happened.
As for the "generation of musicians that didn't know how to play their instruments", songs are more important than virtuosity, always have been and always will be. I love guitar solos (even long ones), but they shouldn't be there unless they add something to the song and they don't need to be displays of dazzling technique to be effective.
Incidentally, the real dark days for rock music weren't the grunge years but the Nu Metal period which came shortly afterwards - when songs again got chucked out of the window in favour of how LOW they could tune their guitars. Whole albums without a tune or a guitar solo. I'm bloody glad that didn't last long.
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But anyway, this is getting completely away from the original point. I wasn't objecting to great guitar players or great musicianship, I was objecting to them displaying their technique (not musicianship) in a pointless manner.
I'm quite happy to watch Govt Mule (for example) spend 15 minutes extending a song, deconstructing and rebuilding a riff. The very best parts of live gigs are when bands depart from the recorded songs and improvise. But that's all about the interplay between musicians, reacting to and feeding off each other. It's music. Look-at-me solo spots aren't.
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Jams > solos
I sat down through Zakks solo when I saw him with Ozzy. I'm that cool.
Aside from the fact that he was the reason I started playing, and I already knew what he was going to play. He hasn't changed his solo spot in 10 years.
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OK, except Craig Goldie with Dio on the Dream Evil tour, but he did shoot a giant mechanical spider with a laser mid way through which would've woke up the philistines like you :P
If he'd carried on playing the spider would've just gone to sleep. Craig Goldy is one of the most boring guitarists I've ever heard in my life.
& I just cannot agree that ignorant, intolerant, shoe-gazing grunge cr@p represented any sort of benefit or "renewal" (or any of the other hackneyed clichés used to describe it). It led to a whole generation of musicians that don't know how to play their instruments, didn't know how to smile, thought teen suicide & heroin overdoses were cool, as well as spawning some of the worst music journalism you'll ever read...
I think it's clear we're in disagreement here. :P :lol: (although I suspect in fact there's probably a surprising amount of overlap between our record collections).
Lots of '80s metal was great, I still listen to it and love it. What wasn't great (apart from the poodle hair, scarves tied around knees :roll: etc) was the way every hair metal band ended up with their own little Yngwie/Eddie wannabe who'd deliver a meaningless shred mini-epic in every one of their throwaway four-minute pop songs ("The Archies with fuzz guitars", to quote Frank Zappa). It was pap, it was boring, there was too much of it and it needed something to come along and shake things up just like punk did in the '70s. Was it really such a terrible thing (except for them personally) that Warrant, Trixter, Slaughter, Danger Danger, Tuff and Pretty Boy Floyd saw their careeers take a nosedive? There's nothing wrong with a new broom from time to time.
Are you really going to write off the whole of grunge as "ignorant, intolerant, shoe-gazing cr@p"? It had its share of dud bands like any other scene, but produced brilliant albums like Nirvana's Nevermind (obviously), Pearl Jam's Ten, Soundgarden's Badmotorfinger and Superunknown, Mother Love Bone, Temple of the Dog... And they may not have been grunge but we'd probably never have heard Alice In Chains if grunge hadn't happened.
As for the "generation of musicians that didn't know how to play their instruments", songs are more important than virtuosity, always have been and always will be. I love guitar solos (even long ones), but they shouldn't be there unless they add something to the song and they don't need to be displays of dazzling technique to be effective.
Incidentally, the real dark days for rock music weren't the grunge years but the Nu Metal period which came shortly afterwards - when songs again got chucked out of the window in favour of how LOW they could tune their guitars. Whole albums without a tune or a guitar solo. I'm bloody glad that didn't last long.
**************
But anyway, this is getting completely away from the original point. I wasn't objecting to great guitar players or great musicianship, I was objecting to them displaying their technique (not musicianship) in a pointless manner.
I'm quite happy to watch Govt Mule (for example) spend 15 minutes extending a song, deconstructing and rebuilding a riff. The very best parts of live gigs are when bands depart from the recorded songs and improvise. But that's all about the interplay between musicians, reacting to and feeding off each other. It's music. Look-at-me solo spots aren't.
Philly Q,
Everything you said in there was spot on. I couldn't have put any of it better myself, so I won't try. :D
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I kind of agree with Philly
A lot of metal players do a solo that is all all speed and no melody
Some of my favourite players managed something a bt more tasty
Zakk Wylde & Doug Aldridge are amongst the worst offenders for awful solos
Kee Marcello, John Norum, Dave Meniketti all impressed
I prefer it when the band are involved too
Here's a gig I was at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nofS5HZZHhU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nofS5HZZHhU)
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LEAVE DANGER DANGER OUT OF THIS!!! PDT_029 PDT_039 PDT_046 PDT_045
Aside from that uncalled for attack on the "forgotten Beatles"... I don't like extended solo spots either.. :?
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I disagree entirely with the anti Zakk here, I think of the current shred guitarists, he does manage to put alot of tune into it.
For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFQOZ8mL4-g&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsih9nUpq2U&feature=related
Also, Book of Shadows is brilliant!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA0kx9ZbOzI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbfCauQceGs
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I'm not debating that too much, just his solo spot sucks. Its the same as it has been for ages. Same as his 'style' is.
P&G / Book of Shadows is awesome stuff. Just can't really listen to his new lot
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LEAVE DANGER DANGER OUT OF THIS!!! PDT_029 PDT_039 PDT_046 PDT_045
Aside from that uncalled for attack on the "forgotten Beatles"... I don't like extended solo spots either.. :?
:lol: :lol:
You know they sucked. Apart from Andy Timmons, and he wasn't even a proper member of the band.
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TAKE THAT BACK or I'll give you a Chinese burn :)
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:o Anything but that!
[meekly]I take it back.[meekly]
Had my fingers crossed behind my back though.