Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: _tom_ on October 19, 2008, 11:16:59 AM
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and all I can say is I'm really, really impressed :o I thought I'd hate it since I've only ever heard it through his valvestate cab and thought it sounded shite. Through G12H30s its $%&#ing awesome. It's like my Laney but with more clarity, less fizz and more of that proper Marshall roar that I want. I was going to change preamp tubes etc to try and get that out of my laney but I'm tempted to save up and get a DSL50 now :o Plugging into my laney after that was just a bit disappointing :( Heres a quick comparison clip, not amazing cos I'm plugging my SM57 straight into my laptops soundcard but you can hear a bit of a difference, its much bigger in the room.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=493678&songID=6986813
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If you want to be put off the DSL feel free to trek down the 50 miles to my place.
Master volume JMPs are a bit cheaper than DSLs too. More crunchy but still fat.
your clip makes the DSL sound quite thin, the complete opposite of my old JCM900.
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Yeah it has a bit less bass but its much clearer and middier than the laney which I like :) The classic crunch channel is really nice as well, a bit fatter than the ultra gain channel which I used on that clip. I just couldnt be arsed to set it up for that cos I allready had it set up quite nicely on the ultra gain (which was only at 9:00 and thats more than enough).
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You need to remember that your Laney isn't on top form at the moment Tom!
What valves were in each head by the way? They can make a big difference.
Before you change your rig, I'd spend a small amount getting your GH checked out. Maybe you could send it to MartinW?
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True, but before plugging the Laney in I did put a load of contact cleaner on the valve pins then pull them in/out of the sockets a few times. Didnt get any big changes in volume/punch etc so I'm guessing its ok for now..
My valves are Svetlana Winged C EL34s, his are whatever stock EL34s come in DSLs. Both have stock preamp ones.
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Try swapping the preamp valves over and see if that improves your Laney. It might be that yours are shot.
Power valves are less important unless the amps are cranked.
Have you tried EQ-ing your Laney to sound like the DSL?
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I got rid of my Laney (vh100r) a while ago, for the same reason you're not liking you GH- too much fizz that i never got dialled out, tried different valves and really wanted to like it, but it just didn't happen. Now i'm rocking the Marshalls (900s at the moment, but planning a Ceriatone 2204 build at some point), i just think the Laneys need to have some adjustments to get rid of the fizz, and they really need to be opened up very loud to sound good.
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Yeah I'm thinking about trying some new preamp valves first to see if that'll get the fizz away, but since playing the DSL I'm missing the marshall upper mid thing which the Laney just doesnt have. Dont know which valves to try though there are so many, even after making threads asking which I still dont know what to do :lol: Might try some EI Elites as they get good a good write up on Watford Valves, the only thing they didnt like about them was their reliability, but apparently thats not such an issue with the newer ones (watford valves report was in 2001). Seriously considering getting a DSL or maybe a ceriatone/martamp JCM800 if that'd really be much better than the DSL? Definitely not as versatile anyway...
Twinfan I dont have time to change the preamp ones round, he wants it back asap, I was only borrowing it to see if it was his amp or cab that was $%&#ed - turns out its his cab :P
edit - nevermind, changed the preamp tubes round, sounds the same with or without the TADs :P
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I got some Mullard ECC83s from America yesterday. Better than stock Marshalls atleast, I can't compare to many, but I like them :)
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Sounds like you like the JMP onwars Marshall upper mid thing Tom. Me, I prefer the earlier JTM low end emphaisis that the Laney also has.
Sounds like you've got amp GAS!
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Yeah - I had a preference for MArshall over Laney
Always found the Laney's a bit wooly sounding with Humbuckers whilst the Marshalls had that upper mid thing dialed in nicely. Being a fan of 80s rock I guess the Marshall was the primary amp of choice so it is also what my ears are tuned to.
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Sounds like you like the JMP onwars Marshall upper mid thing Tom. Me, I prefer the earlier JTM low end emphaisis that the Laney also has.
Sounds like you've got amp GAS!
Yep definitely, it just has more punch and agression that I want. Then again when you havent played the DSL before the Laney (A/Bing them I guess you call it) you dont really notice it as much! I'm seriously considering getting Martin at Martamp to make me up a 50w JCM800 or something with my leftover student loan money next summer :P Depends how much it'll cost really.
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If Martin makes it, it'll be a good 'un ;)
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Yeah.. will a JCM800 sound similar to a DSL but with less gain? I had the gain on that clip at just above 9:00 on the ultra gain channel, which is just about right for me I think, do 800s do that without a boost or are they more of an ACDC level of gain? The crunch channel sounds great with a Rat in front of it as well :)
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I'd say a JCM800 would be ideal for you Tom. That's what the GH is based on after all, and you seem to like that!
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Back in the days when I still had amp gas, I was also longing for a DSL100.
But Tom, your GH50 is great, why would you wanna give that up? I can understand that you look for something new because you're bored, but I'm sure you'd always wanna have it back if you sold it.
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Yeah I'm going to keep the Laney anyway since my dad bought it, maybe if I get a JCM800 I could use them both and the Laney set for cleans, the 800 for distortion :twisted:
I know its a great amp but compared to the DSL, I just prefer the proper Marshall voicing for rock, the Laney sounds much looser and fizzier. Someone on HC reckons there might be something wrong with the Laney but it sounds the same to me as its always sounded.
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Yeah.. will a JCM800 sound similar to a DSL but with less gain? I had the gain on that clip at just above 9:00 on the ultra gain channel, which is just about right for me I think, do 800s do that without a boost or are they more of an ACDC level of gain? The crunch channel sounds great with a Rat in front of it as well :)
The general tonality of an 800 is similar to the DSL clip you recorded.
But the DSL and your GH50L have noticeably more gain than a JCM800. This is not surprising as they both have more gain stages than an 800.
With an 800, the amount of distortion depends a LOT on how much you are including the PI and power tubes in the equation. At lower (read as "sane") volumes, all the drive is coming from the first two pre-amp tubes only (as the MV is situated between V2 and the PI (V3)). Once you turn the master up, you can get a LOT more drive from the PI and power tubes. The problem with this is that the amp is f@#$*n loud by then.
Alternatively an attenuator will let you survive. However, I hated a Hotplate when I tried it with my 800 clone. I haven't had the 800 long, and I haven't been anywhere to be able to crank up the master anywhere near the sweet zone yet. I'll be able to let you know more, and do some clips when my new Ultimate Attenuator arrives (bargain on ebay today !!).
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I'd probably be better off with a DSL or something then, I was getting good tones and enough gain at low volume with this.
I want to have a go on a Vintage Modern as well :)
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Ever since I borrowed my mates JCM800 I've been toying with the idea of getting rid of my GH and getting an '800. When you get the volumes up i preferred my mates JCM, it was a lot less harsh and sounded much better with the V30's in my 2x12.
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Yeah, how loud does the 800 need to be to have the same sort of gain levels as a GH with the drive on 6-7 and gain boost on about 4?
I cant even justify getting another amp right now, I wont buy anything til next summer, why am I even getting so interested? :lol: :roll:
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well my mates JCM was the 2205, 50 watt, dual channel. It was much more reasonable with volume, E.G. I could get it to half master without feeling sick(Which is what usually happens with the GH100L :lol:) I can't remember how loud I had to have it but I was running my bad monkey and it was the perfect amount of gain, it's a very different type of gain to the GH in my opinion so it's a little hard to compare.
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I'd play a JCM900 or a DSL if I had to. People diss them, but the ones I've tried have been totally fine. Lacking the 'balls' and 'urge' maybe, but nothing wrong with them. Decent gig amps - just what they were designed for. I guess the default G12-75T speakers let them down a bit too.
Will and I have the same amp - the 2204 circuit in the JMP case style, 80s sound, 70s looks, best of both worlds :)
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It was much more reasonable with volume, E.G. I could get it to half master without feeling sick(Which is what usually happens with the GH100L :lol:)
Halfway on the master - I'm impressed !! I chicken out at about 1 at home. At gigs I've done so far with it, I think the master has been at about 1.5 - band mates start moaning after that etc.
It's 2204 BTW.
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I want to have a go on a Vintage Modern as well :)
The VM is a winner! If you can, get a 100, as it has a tad more punch and you have more clean headroom, it does a good clean tone in fact. Ideally you'd have two VMs, one set for clean, one for drive. It's an amazing amp and has a real addictive tone.
Takes some time to get used to and dial in, but kicks ass x 10.
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I couldnt go for a 100w since I only have a 60w cab and dont really plan on changing that..
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I'd go for a jcm800 or a vintage modern if I was you. My jcm800 just sounds so much thicker and less harsh and fizzy than my dsl100. When I tried out a vintage modern I preferred that to my dsl100 aswell. You can probably get a much wider range of tones from the VM but there is just nothing better than a jcm800 being boosted by a good overdrive pedal for a ballsy rock tone imo.
Yeah, how loud does the 800 need to be to have the same sort of gain levels as a GH with the drive on 6-7 and gain boost on about 4?
With an overdrive pedal to boost it and a thd hotplate I can get quite high gain tones from the jcm800 at bedroom level.
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With an overdrive pedal to boost it and a thd hotplate I can get quite high gain tones from the jcm800 at bedroom level.
or even without the hotplate. the 2203/4 takes boosters very well, as is its famous reputation. i have a selection which i choose depending on the guitar i'm using. my hilbourne treble booster is great for vintage voiced pickups, i take an RC booster for vintage hot pickups, and a crunch box with high gain pickups. you can go high gain with the right pedal and still keep the amp's character - early metallica levels easily, maybe more. i like boosting it with a boss EQ pedal too, though thats fallen out of favour a bit lately. but i might well use that eq again soon. i was looking at pics of lynch's rig - and his ge7 turned out to be set to the exact same settings as mine, obviously its something that works and i'm not crazy ;)
master volume/slx model jcm900s are meant to be better than the dual reverb ones, perhaps i'd look for one of those. or a jmp type master volume (like I own now) - real sleeper amps, or a dsl as you say. i also liked jonothan's split reverb jcm800 when he had it, though they are starting to appreciate. likewise silver jubilees aren't the bargains they once were. i agree with everyone that those vintage moderns are awesome, but they're still a bit expensive being new amps and all.
pentode/triode split feature is a total waste of time. it does lower the volume appreciable, but it sucks all the balls out the amp. i'd rather leave it on pentode and turn down the master volume a bit.
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oh! try this: swap the preamp valves between the marshall and the laney to see if it improves the laney any.
edit: mmm, unusualy for me i now have amp GAS from thinking about all these marshalls ;)
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You'll get more high mids and attack out of the laney if you put JJs in there. Their 12AX7s are bright and sharp sounding.
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:?
I've heard the exact opposite about JJ preamp tubes..
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Yeah, that's my experience too. EH are the way to go for high mids and brightness IMO.
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Wow I'm hating the GH at the moment, it needs to go.
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Oh man if I'd still be into amps I'd buy all those GHs now cheap off you guys :O)
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I'm gonna take it to my local shop for them to sell it, then...Fix my AOR and buy an Engl fireball.
Sorted.
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Yeah, that's my experience too. EH are the way to go for high mids and brightness IMO.
I dont really want more brightness cos it has plenty, just more of the Marshally upper mid crunch would be good :D
Oh man if I'd still be into amps I'd buy all those GHs now cheap off you guys :O)
haha I'm not selling it, I cant be bothered with amp shopping :P
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oh god I just heard this stoner rock clip of a DSL combo into a 4x12 that has fueled my gas even more. It sounds soo good http://www.netmusicians.org/files/67-07%20Track%2007%2014.mp3
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there was a JCM900 SLX 100w in the rehersal studio today. wasn't keen on it at all actually, it was easily pwned by the Orange rockerverb 50 (or whatever its called) beside it, even with the same cab. a little dissapointed.
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there was a JCM900 SLX 100w in the rehersal studio today. wasn't keen on it at all actually, it was easily pwned by the Orange rockerverb 50 (or whatever its called) beside it, even with the same cab. a little dissapointed.
I think it might be to do with modern Marshall output transformer size?
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there was a JCM900 SLX 100w in the rehersal studio today. wasn't keen on it at all actually, it was easily pwned by the Orange rockerverb 50 (or whatever its called) beside it, even with the same cab. a little dissapointed.
I think it might be to do with modern Marshall output transformer size?
that could well be, it didn't have any of the guts of our JMPs when cranked. but i also wasn't that keen on the preamp drive, then again, nice 12AX7 might fix that easily.
i tried jcm900 split reverbs a couple of times, but always in isolation, however i believe i might prefer it to the slx. really hard to say for sure though. its very hard to beat a 2204 with a good booster.