Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Ian Price on October 26, 2008, 01:48:56 PM
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Just a quick bit of advice needed - will refretting a vintage guitar reduce it's value? I doubt that keeping the old frets in the case is the same as keeping the original pickups!
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Yes - vintage guys are really funny about that
An old guitar can desperately need refretting being almost unplayable otherwise, but they dont wsnt you change anything.
Think it's daft myself
I would refret it with the same gauge of wire as it would have been new, but all nice and fresh
No point keeping the old frets - they're not exactly going to refit them again like they could with old pickups
Guitars are meant for playing not hanging on the wall IMO
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Cheers Mr Feline - I have the same opinion of guitars and have no plans to sell. Was just wondering what difference it would make. I do think mine is in need of a refret though - I assume it would be best to get it checked out or are there any signs I could look out for?
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It's crazy. My mate just bought a 1976 Stingray, and it needs SERIOUS work, but he won't let me sort him out... I can't believe it. I mean, what's the point in buying what are meant to be "the best sounding" guitars, if they're cr@p to play..
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You need to keep the original strings on it too :roll:
The vintage bubble is just about to go big-splat. IMHO of course.
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Cheers Mr Feline - I have the same opinion of guitars and have no plans to sell. Was just wondering what difference it would make. I do think mine is in need of a refret though - I assume it would be best to get it checked out or are there any signs I could look out for?
Ian - what is the guitar in question?
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The vintage bubble is just about to go big-splat. IMHO of course.
I doubt it'll ever really collapse, but new guitars are better than ever. We really understand what makes a good one now, and PRS and the Fender Custom Shop (for example) have really got the quality sorted.
Makes no sense to buy an old one to play now, they're just for collectors.
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It really depends on the condition of the guitar. If you have a "mint" vintage guitar, then refretting it will devalue it, although if it is "mint" it wouldn't need a refret!
Generally originality is worth preserving. However, if the guitar has reasonable playing wear, which it will if the frets are shot, then I don't think a refret will devalue the guitar. It didn't leave the factory with unplayably worn frets, or say scratchy pots, so I would go ahead and get the guitar refretted. I wouldn't bother keeping the old frets either.
I've just purchased a 60s Gretsch needing a refret (which is good as Gretsch fretting is very variable to say the least), so I will definitely get it refretted to make it as playable as possible.
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I forgot to add that you need to go to someone who is very sympathetic to vintage guitar repair. This is not the job for a cowboy.....
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I agree with jpfamps... If the guitar's been modified already, to the extent that it's price has dropped enough to be in reach of players (as opposed to collectors), then in theory a good refret on a worn out guitar shouldn't reduce its value.
I bought a late '60s Tele a little while ago, and the frets were pretty much flat. It had a bunch of other mods which meant it was 'worth' less than a new custom shop guitar. I bought it because it still played better than a number of C.S. Tele's I tried that day, it was cheaper, and essentially it was a late '60s guitar.
It was a hassle having to get it refretted after I bought it - so if it had been refretted already, it would have actually made me more likely to buy it!
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Cheers Mr Feline - I have the same opinion of guitars and have no plans to sell. Was just wondering what difference it would make. I do think mine is in need of a refret though - I assume it would be best to get it checked out or are there any signs I could look out for?
Ian - what is the guitar in question?
A mid 70s tele - there's some distinct flattening of the lower frets, not so bad on the upper frets.
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Ian - I know a guy in Reading who will give you a sensible opinion if you are considering getting it done - PM me if you need his details.
Mike
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probably sideways fretted as well if i remember my years right. i think it was up untill the late 70's that fender pushed its frets in from the side rather than straight down as most do. somebody not used to defretting a vintage fender sideways fretted neck may pull the frets and cause major chips... then you really loose value!!
its a bit slower than just pulling frets like you can on most guitars but not really much more difficult, they need to be slowly pushed back out... 1 at a time :(
so yeah, I would replace them with something appropriate (not jim dunlop 6000's) to keep the guitar playable... but make sure you get someone used to working with vintage fenders.
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Wez is correct
70s Fender had the frets pushed in from the side so they must be pushed out sideways as well so as for the barbs not to rip chunks out of the fingerboard as they push through "virgin wood" since as the frets didnt go in through the top of the board there is no pathway for the barbs on the tang to safely pass back through.
If it is a maple fingerboard I would put money on the board needing refinishing as well as the thick poly that Fender sprayed over the frets tend to make it all but impossible to get them out without some spoiling of the paint.
This also results in a flat surface to refret into/onto if done nicely.
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Wez is correct
70s Fender had the frets pushed in from the side so they must be pushed out sideways as well so as for the barbs not to rip chunks out of the fingerboard as they push through "virgin wood" since as the frets didnt go in through the top of the board there is no pathway for the barbs on the tang to safely pass back through.
If it is a maple fingerboard I would put money on the board needing refinishing as well as the thick poly that Fender sprayed over the frets tend to make it all but impossible to get them out without some spoiling of the paint.
This also results in a flat surface to refret into/onto if done nicely.
Yes, sadly laterly CBS Fender started to apply there poly finishes OVER the frets on maple boards making a refin necessary when the board is refretted, so if you have a maple board you will need to take it to someone who can do this as well.
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Thanks all - it's a rosewood board so hopefully that won't need 'stuff' doing to it as well.
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For folks worried about the extra "stuff" on refretting maple boards (relacquering) - I was worried on my Baja but needn't have been. (I'm talking new here, obviously, not vintage - I'd be after some advice myself there :lol:)
It was an extra £50 on top of the refret itself and, I'm guessing, roughly a week's delay to getting the guitar back because of the prep and trip to the paint shop, but BOY was it worth it :D. Doesn't improve the playing, but it's so much nicer to look at, and caress lovingly, especially when cleaning it!! I didn't see what it looked like with the frets pulled (which was when we decided on a relacquer) so I don't know how bad it was - but I expect it to have been pretty messy given the build up lacquer round the original frets. Having been through it now, I'd happily regard it at as part of the job on a maple fingerboard and would budget accordingly.
It was only the board relacquered, not the back or headstock. And, although both Jonathan and I could see it's very slightly lighter when viewing real close in comparison with the headstock, you cannot see the difference when glancing casually - if anything slightly lighter goes better with the body, and it's certainly more consistent in shading along the whole board now. More importantly, I cannot see or feel a join at the edge of the board. If didn't know already (and if I wasn't intimately familiar with the original lumpy lacquer), I wouldn't know it had been done.
I have to say, I agree with Wez earlier - although they're what I've put on my Baja (and I'm loving them big time) I really would think twice about Dunlop 6000 on a vintage tele!!
My gut feeling Ian is that I'd go for the refret on yours without any feeling of doubt or guilt - I'd want a playable guitar :D
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I have to say, I agree with Wez earlier - although they're what I've put on my Baja (and I'm loving them big time) I really would think twice about Dunlop 6000 on a vintage tele!!
Apart from anything else, I think huge jumbo frets would be out of place on a vintage 7.25" radius - you'd still have the same old problem of "choking" on bends anyway. Just seems wrong really.
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I have to say, I agree with Wez earlier - although they're what I've put on my Baja (and I'm loving them big time) I really would think twice about Dunlop 6000 on a vintage tele!!
Apart from anything else, I think huge jumbo frets would be out of place on a vintage 7.25" radius - you'd still have the same old problem of "choking" on bends anyway. Just seems wrong really.
I dunno Philly - I've never had this "choking on bends" problem of which everyone speaks. My old JV strat that did hundreds of gigs has vintage radius, my #1 CIJ strat has vintage radius, and my new CIJ tele has vintage radius (we nearly changed the Baja, but I decided not to, if I'd had the CIJ in my hands when we were discussing the Baja, I probably would have done...)
I suspect I have a slightly higher action than folks that experience this choking - I cannot make any of my fender "vintage radius" guitars choke in this way... in fact the only choking I've ever experienced of this type has been on flatter gibson type necks! :roll: (classy set ups I suspect :lol:)
Jumbos do "look" very odd on a tele until you get used to it, but feel-wise I love it. Good ole Alice is an absolute dream for me now... My #1 strat will definitely get the same treatment when she needs any fretwork.
Not sure about the other tele at the moment - her action happily goes lower than the other two anyway, but it has "vintage correct" fretwire, and I'm finding it real hard to play after a stint on Alice. I don't want to spend any money on her at the moment though - she plays fine, sounds different, leave well alone (need more blackguards, need more blackguards... down fido!! :lol:)
For an old guitar though - if it was a tele I'd owned myself from the 70s, I'd have no doubts at all about sticking the wire I wanted on it. But if I'd bought a 50s or 60s as a vintage guitar (unlikely to happen, even if I could afford it!), I'd probably not.... (I'd still refret it if it needed it tho...)
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Andy - you do play with a slightly higher action (not much higher though) than some
However I do tend to put a little bit of compound radius into my fret dresses anyway (and that goes for refrets too)
We try hard to reduce the likelihood of choking on the jobs we do
Still hard to do on a 7.25" neck but it's an improvement
the worst choking on an old Fender is always on the high E as you are seriously making it go "uphill"
For proof of this if you gat choking on the high e - take a ruler and lie it acros the frets and make it sit at the same angle as the string becomes when you bend it
It will probably rock on the frets!
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I suspect I have a slightly higher action than folks that experience this choking - I cannot make any of my fender "vintage radius" guitars choke in this way... in fact the only choking I've ever experienced of this type has been on flatter gibson type necks! :roll: (classy set ups I suspect :lol:)
Yeah, higher action helps a lot. I also find, personally, that it's quite hard to maintain finger pressure on those skinny vintage frets, so I tend to "lose" notes. I've had several vintage radius guitars, but never got comfortable with them. Having said that, I don't like a really flat board - Fender 9.5" or PRS 10" feel just right to me.
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I've never had choking with a 7.25" either. Just measured the top E on the Tele and it's around 2.5 - 3mm above the 12th fret, which I suppose is on the high side.
Thing is, with a higher action, it's much less easy to accidentally lose notes like Philly Q mentioned. I guess it gives you the space to get the meat of your finger onto the string before you bend it..
Bigger frets pretty much solve everything though!!
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For folks worried about the extra "stuff" on refretting maple boards (relacquering) - I was worried on my Baja but needn't have been. (I'm talking new here, obviously, not vintage - I'd be after some advice myself there :lol:)
It was an extra £50 on top of the refret itself and, I'm guessing, roughly a week's delay to getting the guitar back because of the prep and trip to the paint shop, but BOY was it worth it :D. Doesn't improve the playing, but it's so much nicer to look at, and caress lovingly, especially when cleaning it!! I didn't see what it looked like with the frets pulled (which was when we decided on a relacquer) so I don't know how bad it was - but I expect it to have been pretty messy given the build up lacquer round the original frets. Having been through it now, I'd happily regard it at as part of the job on a maple fingerboard and would budget accordingly.
Thanks for this post. I was considering starting a thread asking about how much of a PITA maple boards were to do. I have 2 guitars with maple boards that need refretting and one of them has binding as well. The extra cost is what's keeping me from getting them done, might just have to sell them. :(