Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Pacarazzi on November 02, 2008, 08:03:29 AM
-
I'm gonna buy a Bare Knuckle pickup for the bridge of my alder body strat. I'm about to buy either a Miracle Man, a War Pig, or a War Pig Ceramic. I want to know the output levels of the Bare Knuckles vs. EMG 81s and SD Blackouts.
-
I havent played blackouts, but it goes like this in the BKP high output range
NB<MM<PK<WP~81~C-Pig<My MM
If the WP 81 and C-pig have an order, then its that, but its really, really close between them.
I wouldnt buy a pickup based on its output alone though. What else are you after?
-
Sweet, thanks for the info! Honestly I was just curious, I just ordered a Miracle Man for the bridge. If it doesn't deliver I can just exchange it for a War Pig Ceramic. So hows you're MM such high output? I'm just trying to find something heavy and in your face, when I told Tim I'm going for a Children of Bodom/Rammstein tone he suggested the MM so I ordered it since most people agreed. However, on the topic I posted more people voted for the War Pig Ceramic, but I haven't really gotten any evidence..people have just suggested it. With the MM people have talked more about it's characteristics and it seems that it would be a good choice.
-
I voted for the C-Pig because it has a mid grind that the MM doesnt have that would do well for those bands.
My MM is overwound to 23k (and its double screw pole to increase the bass response).
-
Where would a Super Distortion stand in that?
I got a vintage Super Distortion off a dutch knock-off of ebay:D it sounds.. as good as perfect. Only it's 50mm spacing and I have a Ibanez S with floyd... so it looks like cr@p. I think I'm going for a ceramic Pig.. depending on the output slightly.
I think BKP is surely the way to go for that magic sound (I like to think newer Dimarzio's are lesser quality than this because of mass production, still good pickups.. but I want the real thing)
-
Mojo in my opinion i think you should be looking more towards a Nail Bomb. Though its not as hot as the Warpig you will still be able to get excellent metal and rock tones with great clarity and organic tone. I personally have a Nail Bomb in my bridge position in my Ibanez and its amazing. I play anything from heavy metal to ACDC on mine and it handles both fine. Ibanez and Nail Bomb just seem to work extremely well together. There Is also the option of getting it with a ceramic magnet too if you want it to have more kick to it.
Chris
-
Hmm okay, that's a whoole way down the output road that is!
The problem is I like to play some Zakk style too sometimes, I like the sound a lot.. :D pinches have become a big part of my style as well. On the other hand I also like to play AC/DC sometimes so it's pretty hard.. :?
AC/DC is not really the problem by the way.. you can play that with much lower output than Nailbomb. And when it's too much just turn down the volume.:)
I play through a Laney VC100 (VH100 combo version), I am the solo guitarist in the band.. so I do need that articulation and presence, but sharpness is a real turn-off (do get me right: I mean the ear splitting sharpness, dullness is definetly what I'm going for.. but the highs shouldn't be sharp in any way).
Have you tried a (Cer.) WarPig in there as well? and what model Iba is it exactly? (just wondering :))
-
What i need to know is what sort of music are you playing in your band, but I must say from what i am reading about not having too much sharpness still makes me think Nailbomb (as it will give you articulation and presence) with a Cold Sweat neck. Cold Sweat neck for them solo's. The Cold Sweat neck is a great pickups for doing your solos with, lots and lots of clarity, very dynamic and a nice sweet fat tone.
I have a Ibanez rg but sadly i have not tried a Ceramic War Pig in it.
If you are still unsure you could always drop Tim an Email or give the workshop a call.
Chris
-
I've played a nailbomb and a c-pig in the same guitar....
If I can cast my mind back, because them being in the guitar was seperated by about 6 months or more, with a painkiller in between, so this wont be complete and may not be 100% accurate (but I have a decent memory for these things
In basswood/maple (dean Z)
The NB is lower gain than the c-pig, obviously, and quite a bit less compressed, it had more midrange girth than the pig, a really gritty, grinding feel - the c-pig is quite a bit smoother. Very dynamic, too. Its got more low mids than the C-pig, and more mids and high mids, but less lows and less highs. The reason I got rid of the NBs so quickly (I had them less than a week) was that the bass is pretty loose on them. One mans loose is anothers sag, and is another stills dynamic, but it lacked the razorblade precision that I want.
-
Oh, the NB is still pretty powerfull. Its no slouch. Its not psychotic in output though.
Chris, are you our new BK man on the boards?
Edit: not that tim doesnt still come by, but he told me he posts less here now because there are knowledgable members to help out newcomers these days so he's kind of handed it over to us and spends less time here now
-
Chris isn't so much our 'new man' he's been with the company for 2 1/2 years and was wanting to get involved on the forum which I've encouraged. I do look in most days and I'm pleased with the level of knowledge and help that is available to members. As always it's best to email me direct for a quick answer about pickup selection but I'll always chime in on a thread if requested.
-
One sees!
Such a fast response, too - you cant have gone too far from the boards!
Anywho, welcome Chris - not new, but new to us!
-
I've played a nailbomb and a c-pig in the same guitar....
If I can cast my mind back, because them being in the guitar was seperated by about 6 months or more, with a painkiller in between, so this wont be complete and may not be 100% accurate (but I have a decent memory for these things
In basswood/maple (dean Z)
The NB is lower gain than the c-pig, obviously, and quite a bit less compressed, it had more midrange girth than the pig, a really gritty, grinding feel - the c-pig is quite a bit smoother. Very dynamic, too. Its got more low mids than the C-pig, and more mids and high mids, but less lows and less highs. The reason I got rid of the NBs so quickly (I had them less than a week) was that the bass is pretty loose on them. One mans loose is anothers sag, and is another stills dynamic, but it lacked the razorblade precision that I want.
Now see that's a helpfull post!
@ Chris R: I play mostly rock and some heavy funk (think Dave Navarro without the overkill delay, but I use a different guitar for that). The rock part would be closest to 3 Doors Down I guess with some metal-ish things in there.. soooo what I need is the availability for tight powerfull palm muting and nice strung out open chords. Combined with the solo fact.
Getting back to MDV's post; the first thing I saw in there was the "loose" low end of the NB's.. that really kills it in my opinion.
I do like the more compressed sound, since my amp is very open and dynamic. And it does throw out a lot of mids, which again speaks against the NB, too much mids is just too much (that logic for ya!), I'm not a scoop man but still I don't like it to be the overbearing frequency band.
Another question by the way is that my guitar is the Ibanez S, which is a (thinnish) mahogany body with floyd rose .. how that compares to the basswood+maple would be a hard one I guess.
-
In that case, you want the painkillers.
Nailbomb like mid-drive, but its not overbearing or honky in the least (not the the NB is either, but it wont send a middy amp over the edge - really the PJs eq-ing, to me, is a blank canvas. You can make it sound really big and middy, or you can make it sound really scooped - all the frequencies are there in it, and all of them sound great, none of them fight each other) and ULTRA tight, ULTRA clear. Its mid body makes leads sound huge - its great for super-fast riffs, detuning and all manner of lead technique. (Its also my favourite BK).
-
I had a listen to the bands you mentioned and want to sound more like and after listening to 3 Doors Down i am going to put my feet in the ground and stick to NailBombs more so after hearing them. I had a little go on my guitar right after listening to them. I think that maybe you are underestimating the NailBomb i would really suggest taking a look at all the clips of them by other players using Ibanez because i am more then sure you will find it to be just what you are looking for. We can do them ceramic if u want that extra punch to it :)
Chris
-
Okay, that sounds nice :) Plus a little less crazy than the Pig no? Only thing I'm afraid of is that it gets a bit too much metal.. you're into Dave Mustaine.. I'm not :P (yes I am into Zakk but downtuned everything is different, and it's more inspiration than tonecloning)
To get a little bit more towards ontopic: (sorry for the whole hijack)
What I was wondering, yes the warpig is 23K and the painkiller 16K but how much does the output really differ?
Dimarzio seems to rate in millivolts, Seymour Duncan says something about ohmage combined with frequency peak.. what's the actual story?
-
Okay, that sounds nice :) Plus a little less crazy than the Pig no? Only thing I'm afraid of is that it gets a bit too much metal.. you're into Dave Mustaine.. I'm not :P (yes I am into Zakk but downtuned everything is different, and it's more inspiration than tonecloning)
To get a little bit more towards ontopic: (sorry for the whole hijack)
What I was wondering, yes the warpig is 23K and the painkiller 16K but how much does the output really differ?
Dimarzio seems to rate in millivolts, Seymour Duncan says something about ohmage combined with frequency peak.. what's the actual story?
The mV measurements are OK if you have very tightly controlled conditions for one line, all the tests done exactly the same way. Same string gauge, distance from strings, same pick attack (try and measure that one! You just need a good consistent player, but its SO variable) - BK, or anyone else could do it, but comparison between tests would be meaningless. I suppose you could make a rig to do it easily enough, but there isnt one to my knowledge.
The WP and the PK are actaully quite close. The WP clearly takes it, but the PK is maybe 15% (my subjective assesment, same guitar, same string gauge (two new sets), within 20 min, same amp, same settings etc) behind - so close due to big magnets and that the human ear hears the push of the mids quite a bit more.
-
I didn't notice any output loss from the emg 81 to the miracle man
emg's output is way overrated
-
The EMG doesn't even have that much output, it's more the voicing that makes it hit the amp hard than actual output.. (what MDV says about the mids)
I have a great dislike for anything EMG, they're great in Les Pauls for gain tones and clean with a lot of chorus.. but that's about it imo. A lot of people like them because they exclude some of the guitars tone, which is nice if you don't like your guitar..... but that's just plain stupidity isn't it? If you don't have the right guitar.. don't try to make it right with different pickups.
The mV measurements are OK if you have very tightly controlled conditions for one line, all the tests done exactly the same way. Same string gauge, distance from strings, same pick attack (try and measure that one! You just need a good consistent player, but its SO variable) - BK, or anyone else could do it, but comparison between tests would be meaningless. I suppose you could make a rig to do it easily enough, but there isnt one to my knowledge.
The WP and the PK are actaully quite close. The WP clearly takes it, but the PK is maybe 15% (my subjective assesment, same guitar, same string gauge (two new sets), within 20 min, same amp, same settings etc) behind - so close due to big magnets and that the human ear hears the push of the mids quite a bit more.
Ah right, that would be slightly hard to do, on the other hand...
- A pendulum with a pick on the end, released from a standard height
- Tuners and nut on one side, with a gap for the "fretboard", and then a stand for the pickup on which it can be mounted, followed by a simple hardtail.
Then just hook up the equipment and swing away :) You could even measure dynamics from hard and soft picking by releasing the arm from higher or lower. I can do mythbusting me!
How does Dimarzio do it then? Is it a calculated number or estimate or something?
Does the PK actually have a lot more mids than the WarPig? Because then we're back to the amp story. ;)
@Chris R:
I'm so sorry I completely missed your post, you are one great man to go and listen to things to help someone :) (and sell a pickup but since it's between two from BKP I like to think it's helping :D)
Don't get me wrong I like the Nailbomb a lot, it's a great pickup, but I'm afraid it might be too lose, too middy and too low output (went for some wrong english to keep it going there:P).
I have listened to a lot of clips of all of these pickups, but the problem is the clips are very different, most warpigs are recorded with downtunings, scooped amps and that sort of stuff, and although it sound very cool this gives me no fair comparison to the nailbomb's clips with e-tuning and normal eq-ing.
You have struck something there though... would a ceramic magnet maybe make my nailbomb? Tighter, clearer and a bit more power?:D Again I do have to whine: what happens to the mids then?
Edit:
I've just thought of something, a store in my neighbourhood has all of the Bare Knuckle's and one of those Gibson testguitars, I could ask them if I could compare the Nailbomb, Painkiller and WarPig, that would get a lot of the questions out of the way :D
My apologies for not thinking straight earlier and think of it ;)
-
The PK does have a fair bit more mids than the WP, yes. Dont be afraid of the PK mids, though - they're what mids are supposed to sound like. It doesnt make anything boxy or honky. We're talking big, open, dynamic, crystal clear, grinding, crushing mids, like the Metal God intended.
The overall effect of ceramic magnets on mids is to smooth them out.
-
I voted for the C-Pig because it has a mid grind that the MM doesnt have that would do well for those bands.
My MM is overwound to 23k (and its double screw pole to increase the bass response).
23K!!!! WOW :impact:
im finding my 8 and 9k VHIIs hot.
i have recommended the C-pigs to a friend of mine who loves his pure metal tones, he should order them soon im looking forward to how crazy they will be.