Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: MDV on November 24, 2008, 08:37:18 AM
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I'm sick of mu striker extreme being the most unstable, pernickerty, generally gay mobo I've ever used and want to upgrade. May as well get something shit hot, and something based around an i7 920 looks like the best bang for buck out there now to the point where anything else would be frankly stupid
Unless
There are problems with it. We can all look up benchmarks, but does anyone know how these setups, the i7s and the requisite X58 chipsets, are doing after a bit of use - any embuggerances?
Thanks muchly
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I am currently putting together the parts-list for a 10-machine batch for a company. I'll be sticking to C2D for these machines unless the price for i7 drops a bit more. On a personal level, I'm not too interested just now, because the gaming performance isn't quite up to scratch, yet. That said, the business benchies look very impressive indeed. The big question for me is "can I bring that system in on budget?", and I suspect that the answer will be "NO!" once I've factored in the mobo and RAM costs, which are extortionate at present.
No experience setting one up yet, so I'm also interested in anyone else's response to this thread!
Roo
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Yeah, the only mobos around for them at the moment are ~£250, and the ram MUST be DDR3, which is otherwise near-unused and rather expensive. (you know all this already, I know, but for spectators to the thread)
Where did you see the gaming performance?
I can see what youre saying on the price, it is high, but from what benches I've seen theres no reason whatsoever to go with anything but the 920, which is oh so very slightly slower than the 940 at about half the price, and still rather a lot faster than QX's at 3 times the price. I *think* that even the 920 is faster than any C2D (not quite sure, but I've only seen any i7 beaten in benches by dual QX somethings, I think it was QX9770s, and even then its not all the time. The 920 is looking like AWESOME value for money, on its own (without the mobo and ram!))
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Found some gaiming benches. Not that good, but not poor enough to put me off, by a long shot. A Q9550 would probably be marginally better for games than a 920, but the 920 thrashes it for everything else (I'm thinking DAW: audio processing, VSTs - fun stuff thats got nowt to do with gaming power. Get a better graphics card).
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Some pretty glowing comments on the asus PT6 deluxe:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-p6t-deluxe-review-x58-motherboard/
*Crosses fingers that it doesnt turn out to be another Striker Extreme. Looks good on paper. Is in fact a DOG*
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Yeah, for anything other than gaming (and of course, the gaming performance isn't any worse, it's just not as much better as the business app performance is better!), then the i7 is definitely worth looking at, particularly if you can afford it. Of course, prices always come down, so timing could be better than current (it'll be a while before another major release like this, so prices right now will be over-the-odds for a month or two or six...).
Gaming is massively improved provided that you have monster graphics card (think dual to quad card setups, and then you're into the NIGHTMARE of game-specific driver issues), and can run at pretty reasonable res. At low res, you do see the performance increase, but you have to ask whether it's worth paying X much more for 250 fps instead of 150... It's still blisteringly fast!
Just my opinions. If I had the money right now, I would ;)
Roo
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I'm not one for betting that the price will drop. I dont like putting things back 'till its cheaper' in the PC world, cos your ALWAYS waiting The NEXT thing comes along!!). Screw that! My PC threw a hissy fit that I barely got it back from due to it having PMT since I put 4G of ram in the stiker (it tolerates more than 3 only grudgingly), which serves as reminder enough to buy another ASAP, in my book :D
I can get some cheap gear, add it to my currently not bad gear and sell another PC 2nd hand at some profit (net loss with the i7 stuff, of course, but its not as hard a hit)
What do you think?
Proposed spec -
i7 920
PT6 deluxe
6Gb of 1600Mhz CL7 tripple channel OCZ
- Already got 320Gb installation drive
- " " 2x320gb RAID 0 data
- " " 8800GT _ OR buy a GTX260
- " " Vista Prem 64
And build:
E6600
Asus Striker
4Gb 800Mhz CL4 Dual Channel OCZ
Vista prem 64
- Buy a generic 500Gb
- " " 9400GT _OR use my 8800GT
- " " Case and PSU
And flog it.
?
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I'd say it's looking great until you hit the 8800GT. I have that card in my system, and, while it's the only thing keeping my poor little old Athlon dual core up with the times, it's simply not enough to do the new system justice, IMHO.
That said, depending on your finances, that'd be the perfect way to get the base ready then save up for a GTX260 or even a Radeon 4850/4870 (or hell, two 4830s... (http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=16300&page=1)). Only you know what you can afford, but that's my 2p worth! Other than that, the core build is looking solid, there.
Roo
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Hmmmm.....I was begining to suspect the 8800GT wasnt cutting it. I havent paid much attention to the graphics card market since I got it, but there are altogether too many cards with bigger numbers for names out now!
That said, I was under the impression the GTX260 was better than the 48xx's?
But thanks for your advise mate. I think I'll get the new gfx - its not a terrible amount more, and the 8800 is well matched with the other system, and should sweeten it for sale, too.
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The GTX 260 or 280 are great cards, no doubt, and for some games they wipe the floor with ATI boards. In other games, the ATI boards wipe the floor with NVidia. It's worth checking out reviews which feature games you particularly like to play! That Hexus link I put for two 4830s was quite an eye-opener - those are cheapish boards, but together they work really well (in that test system)!
Personally, I'd take a couple of 4870s if I had the cash (and a big enough power supply!!). I'm definitely not a fanboy of either company, I've owned approximately the same number of boards from each over the years. At times, one company definitely had a lead over the other, but I think right now it's pretty darn close between them!
Good Luck!
Roo
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I have a 600W PSU
Headroom enough for one big card, methinks. Would probably cr@p out with 2 4870s? (but I dont think I can justify that for games, when I dont play that many games! I do like them to have as many bells and whistles as possible when I do, though).
I'll have a think on the gfx, and brush up on the current market.
I MAY leave all this till january as well. So I can kick myself for not getting it sooner after the pound plummets even further against the dollar (Rate of fall of the pound Vs rate of fall of new intel CPUs and chipset....PLACE BETS NOW! aaaaaand their off! dundadalun dadalun dun dun).
I'd rather get it now, but the i7s and X38 stuff is absolutely fresh off the starting line. Maybe a couple of months is enough for the competition to catch up (there are only 3, I think, manufacturers doing the X58, for intstance (Asus, gigabyte and MSI), and the price of at least the Mobos and RAM to fall a bit (I dont really expect the processor prices to drop, but if it was just the processor, there wouldnt be this thread, I'd have bought one already!).
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Yeah the 600W (if it's a decent make, which I'm guessing it is!) will do you fine for a one-card set-up. You'd really struggle with 2 4870s, though! I'd be looking at 1000W+ for that kind of rig, especially considering the power of the CPU, too. If you're not a regular gamer, then I think a good one-card set-up is the best bet, and a 4870 or GTX260/280 would sort you out good and proper :) If you felt rather fancy, you could go for a 4870x2 board, but again you might be struggling on power consumption...
I wish I had the money for an update of my own rig :(
Roo
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Yeah the 600W (if it's a decent make, which I'm guessing it is!) will do you fine for a one-card set-up. You'd really struggle with 2 4870s, though! I'd be looking at 1000W+ for that kind of rig, especially considering the power of the CPU, too. If you're not a regular gamer, then I think a good one-card set-up is the best bet, and a 4870 or GTX260/280 would sort you out good and proper :) If you felt rather fancy, you could go for a 4870x2 board, but again you might be struggling on power consumption...
I wish I had the money for an update of my own rig :(
Roo
Thats what I thought, thanks for the confirmation :) (oh, its an OCZ stealth - not the best by a ways, but it should hack it?)
Seeing as my current rig can play the likes of crysis and supcom *pretty* well I dont think I need a huge upgrade in gfx. Youre spot on: one card is fine for me. It seems to be between the 4870 and GTX260 for me. If I need more gfx power in a year or two, thats where SLI and card price reduction comes in :D In the mean time I'll ponder it calmly and quietly, weighing finances and probable benefits of one over the other, then get a GTX280 off amazon during a night in with some beers, listening to metal :lol: (then try and convince myself that it was a good idea)
Guitars first, roo, guitars first. And amps and stuff. Clearly, you needed your Wez!!!! My future big (like 4-figure) guitar purchases have all been recinded and my PCs being gay, so I figure its smaller guitar things and upgrade-o-clock. If I needed guitary stuff or my PC was working swimmingly, I wouldnt be thinking about it!
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Yeah, you're right - that's why I just had to go for the custom! Once my pedal arrives (it's been paid for, and I hope that it will in fact be made and sent...), then my rig is complete (until such time as I might get bored of my 5150-II - that will take a long while, though!), then I can go back to my usual 1-2 year computer upgrade cycle :)
Roo
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Don't really have time to get fully into this discussion, so all I'll say is that I have high hopes for the i7, and am putting it into a new build I'm starting in the next few weeks.
On the other hand, MDV, I'm suprised you're complaining so much about the Striker Extreme, I haven't used it personally, but I've heard damn good things about it, and imo, all the new Asus' I've been using recently have been absolutely phenomenal!
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I've never seen so many posts that were absolute Greek to me! PDT_008
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Your priorities are in order and the force is strong with you, Roo.
Noodle - when you have the time please do comment.
The striker was a fussy little bar-steward. Didnt take perfectly good corsair ram that ticked all its compatibility boxes (XMS2, its not like its obscure) - took quite a fight get it to accept 4Gb, occasionally forgets what order its PCI bus is populated in and/or forgets that there are things in it (or were, once upon a time) after the graphics card, wont accept RAID controller updates, screws up the nforce driver updates and is way fussy about how you update the bios (it HAS to be through floppy - cant use a mem stick, cant do it in windows).
Now, obviously all of these have been worked around (by me or people that know way more than me), but they still shouldnt really happen. Pernickerty fussy contranaptious recalcitrant obstinant capricious and unreliable PoS. I dont like it.
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I find this surprising, given my own experience with asus boards, which have all been without a fault. Of course, with a high end machine, there is always the possibility of other problems not experienced on the mainstream market, and it's these that really define the manufacturer. My personal best experiences have been with DFI, whose boards I have had nothing but total satisfaction from!
Roo
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Well, a few lurkings over at the asus boards, overclockers club, and a couple of other places that have come up in googling the striker extreme, it seems to be the exception. The striker II, maximus and formula all seem to be shit hot, and the SE has, I found out too late, a bit of a reputation for being a git.
Nice to see some votes of confidence from people with more experience than me in asus in general though: I was reluctant to go with them again with the P6T after my striker experience, but it looks like the best choice atm.
TO, you wanna see some greek - go and take a peek in any PC hardware dedicated forum!
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http://www.legitreviews.com/article/806/1/
Choose your ram carefully, padawan.....or not?
<1.65V for me. Not worth the chance. looks like 1333 CL7 is about the fastest I can put in there, which is actually slower than what I have now - 800 CL4 - 5.25ns per bit transfer to my current 5ns. BUT 6Gb of it. At 38Gb/s, tripple channel :twisted:
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Yeah the tradeoff between latency and bandwidth is always a tricky one, and is - I suspect - the key reason for sub-optimal game performance for i7 at present. Of course, loading times will be better with the 6GB for large games, or specifically for those with very very large levels, but they key performance gain isn't in gaming and never has been for i7. I suspect that once the initial nuances are sorted, it will rock all round
Gotta go
Roo
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Yeah the tradeoff between latency and bandwidth is always a tricky one, and is - I suspect - the key reason for sub-optimal game performance for i7 at present. Of course, loading times will be better with the 6GB for large games, or specifically for those with very very large levels, but they key performance gain isn't in gaming and never has been for i7. I suspect that once the initial nuances are sorted, it will rock all round
Gotta go
Roo
Yeah, it looks very much like there have been some problems with the mobos and ram with these monsters
Well, not 'problems' per se, but non-optimalnesses.
The mobos - tripple channel means 6 dimms is best, and that takes up space, plus the chips are quite large. The Dell XPS's with the i7s in have perpendicularly mounted chipsets! Never seen that before, its a novel solution to half the problem. The PT6 has a novel northbridge heat sink to save space (forget the details, but its.....novel) and SATA ports take a hit - 6 is max, it would seem.
This I can live with all of. Its fine. Cant change euclidean geometry. If the i7s set a new trend maybe we'll start to see a bigger version of the ATX to house bigger mobos?
The ram peeps need to up their game for this though. The new chipset is all about interface with the ram, and the current tripple channel released for the X58/i7 is quite.....rushed looking. limited options that all look like quick adaptations of existing lines, priced to cover some panic R&D costs. I suspect cost will go down and performance increase quite quickly. 6 months and we'll have some pretty serious tripple channel ram available, and whats around now should be more realistically priced.
I think I might go with the cheapest tripple channel around and maybe upgrade when they have their act together. Looks like its 1999ish-2003ish again and ram is a really big player once more in PC performance with the i7s
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I've never seen so many posts that were absolute Greek to me! PDT_008
It's Geek Ben, absolute Geek.
Anyway, since I'm a geek...
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned hard drive speed, if you are going for uber then consider 10K or 15K disks, or maybe a solid state. These are NOT cheap options, but 7200 disks are probably going to be your biggest bottle neck in a high spec system. Of course that means a SCSI card too... £££££
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I hadnt thought of hd speed.
Really hikes the price up with the drive config I want though. Like, lots.
Anyone got experience with Mesh? They're doing i7 rigs with P6Ts: might be simpler to get one.
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Well, on the systems I'm building, I'll be choosing a solid state disk if I possibly can. Apologies for not having gone through this in more detail (my last post was a rushed send job as the bus pulled up outside my house!)!
With that said, a pair of 7200k rpm dsks in RAID0 are likely to be fast enough. Of course, a pair of Raptors would be nicer ;)
I tend to go for one or two large storage disks, and a couple of smaller disks in RAID0 if I'm feeling like I need the speed for the OS. That helps to keep costs down, although naturally the read and write operations to your storage disks become rate-limiting.
Re: ATX - that's where BTX comes in, no? Or maybe a Lian Li V343B (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-098-LL&groupid=701&catid=7&subcat=187&name=Lian%20Li%20PC-343B%20Aluminium%20Cube%20-%20Black) :D
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SS drives are a new one on me
What a completely rubbish capacity to price ratio!
I'd much rather get 300Gb 15000Rpm conventional drives. I'd love to use ss drives, but £200 for 60Gb? One measly terrabyte (yes, I need getting on for that) would cost more than the rest of the pc, and there wouldnt be space or ports for it!.
Anyone got any thoughts on Mesh? In general, that is. Are they known for goodness, cr@ppyness, mediocrity? Anything?
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No opinions on Mesh, I'm afraid.
Re: SSDs - don't write them off yet - as a primary OS disk, they are blisteringly fast! Tag a couple of 500GB disks along in RAID0 as a storage/program array and you're absolutely laughing!
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Would I be right in thinking that
- 2 SS disks in RAID 0 would be stupidly fast (or would it not see the benefit?)
- That the increased chance of total failure is mitigated by the SS disks?
thus making an SS raid as my main disk a very good idea?
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I ordered a Mesh a bit back, should be here within a week.
Its the bottom of the line model, so I don't think I can contribute much though
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Cheers anyhow will - if you have any comments on the quality of it, chip in!
In the mean time, what do you think of this?
Yes, I have completely lost my mind :lol:
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i7 Processor i7-920 (4 X 2.66GHz) 4.8GTs/8MB Cache
Free Item
FREE Far Cry 2 DVD Game (RRP: £49.99) with any Intel® Core™ 2 Quad/Core™ i7 CPU!
Memory (RAM)
6GB CORSAIR XMS3 1600MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (3x2GB)
Motherboard
ASUS® P6T DELUXE: DDR3, SATAII, 2 x PCI-e x16, 2 PCI, 1 x PCI-e x1
Operating System
Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium 64-bit Edition + SP1, CD (£69)
USB Options
8 x USB 2.0 PORTS (6 REAR + 2 FRONT) AS STANDARD
Memory - 1st Hard Disk
64GB SATA II SOLID STATE DISK (MLC) (120MB/sR | 80MB/sW)
2nd Hard Disk
64GB SATA II SOLID STATE DISK (MLC) (120MB/sR | 80MB/sW)
3rd Hard Disk
500GB SERIAL ATA II HARD DRIVE WITH 8MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
4th Hard Disk
500GB SERIAL ATA II HARD DRIVE WITH 8MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
RAID (HDD 1 & 2)
RAID 0 (STRIPE) (£9)
1st CD/DVD Drive
20x Dual Layer LightScribe DVD Writer ±R/±RW/RAM
2nd CD/DVD Drive
20x Dual Layer LightScribe DVD Writer ±R/±RW/RAM
Graphics Card
896MB GEFORCE GTX260 PCI Express + DVI
2nd Graphics Card
NONE
Sound Card
ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Facilities
2 x ONBOARD 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORTS
Floppy Disk Drive
1.44MB - 3.5 INCH FLOPPY DISK DRIVE
Case
Stylish Silver/Black Sigma case + 2 front USB
Power Supply & Case Cooling
700W Quiet Quad Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£79)
Processor Cooling
ASUS TRITON 81 PURE COPPER BASE ULTRA COOLER
Warranty
1 Year Return-to-Base incl 1 Year Free Collect & Return: £5
Sellers blurb (they seem quite good)
Other Features Included As Standard...
Software
CD/DVD authoring software and Power DVD software is included with all DVD Writers.
Ports
Each computer comes with 1 x PS/2 keyboard port and either 1 x PS/2 mouse port or 2 extra USB ports.
Fans
Where necessary your computer will come with extra case fans fitted.
Memory
Our memory comes with a 100% tested lifetime warranty!
Bezels
All our drives come in either silver, black or beige and are all of a
high quality & matched brand.
Support
We offer lifetime hardware technical support during normal office hours.
Cables & Manuals
A power cable, all drivers, manuals, and a heatsink & fan are included with every order.
Service
Our computers come fully assembled & thoroughly tested. We are so confident in the quality of our computers that we offer a free collection and re-delivery service* should you ever have a problem with your computer.
Installation
If you order an operating system it will come fully installed with the CD and licence key.
Low Total Cost of Ownership
Taking into consideration our low cost telephone support, free collection warranty service* and our strive to use energy efficient components where possible, the total cost of owning a pcspecialist computer is reduced as much as possible.
And Finally
If you are lucky enough to have seen a cheaper quote, click here.
Price for this PC System:
Price for this PC System:
£1459.57 ex VAT.
£1715 inc VAT and Delivery.
From these guys http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/index.php?page=aboutdeliverytime
I cant get the componets on their own for less, and wont be building it myself anywho (so that would be another cost)
A rather horrific amount of money for something that will be obsolete soon, no? But I am tempted. If I can get a good price for my current PC....well, we shall see.
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Whats this crack about write endurance?
Whats gonna happen first:
SSD packs in on me from overwriting
HD packs in on me from conventional breaking
?
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Or, with conventional drives, more PSU and 2 4870s (what the hell?)
Intel® Core™i7 Processor i7-920 (4 X 2.66GHz) 4.8GTs/8MB Cache
Free Item
FREE Far Cry 2 DVD Game (RRP: £49.99) with any Intel® Core™ 2 Quad/Core™ i7 CPU!
Memory (RAM)
6GB CORSAIR XMS3 1600MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (3x2GB)
Motherboard
ASUS® P6T DELUXE: DDR3, SATAII, 2 x PCI-e x16, 2 PCI, 1 x PCI-e x1
Operating System
Genuine Windows Vista™ Ultimate 64-bit Edition + SP1, CD (£119)
USB Options
8 x USB 2.0 PORTS (6 REAR + 2 FRONT) AS STANDARD
Memory - 1st Hard Disk
160GB SERIAL ATA II HARD DRIVE WITH 8MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
2nd Hard Disk
160GB SERIAL ATA II HARD DRIVE WITH 8MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
3rd Hard Disk
500GB SERIAL ATA II HARD DRIVE WITH 8MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
4th Hard Disk
500GB SERIAL ATA II HARD DRIVE WITH 8MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
RAID (HDD 1 & 2)
RAID 0 (STRIPE) (£9)
1st CD/DVD Drive
20x Dual Layer LightScribe DVD Writer ±R/±RW/RAM
2nd CD/DVD Drive
20x Dual Layer LightScribe DVD Writer ±R/±RW/RAM
Graphics Card
512MB RADEON HD 4870 PCI Express + DVI
2nd Graphics Card
512MB RADEON HD 4870 PCI Express + DVI
Sound Card
ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Modem
NONE, I WILL BE USING BROADBAND
Network Facilities
2 x ONBOARD 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORTS
Floppy Disk Drive
1.44MB - 3.5 INCH FLOPPY DISK DRIVE
Memory Card Reader
NONE
Case
Stylish Silver/Black Sigma case + 2 front USB
Power Supply & Case Cooling
800W Quiet Quad Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£99)
Processor Cooling
ASUS TRITON 81 PURE COPPER BASE ULTRA COOLER
Firewire & Video Editing
1 x IEEE 1394a FIREWIRE PORT ONBOARD
£1401.70 ex VAT.
£1647 inc VAT and Delivery.
This is my favrourite :) (I dont trust the SSDs, and they and raptors are way expensive, and I'm not convined they're that much better).
Edit: I must admit that it quite pleases me that this will outperform a mate of mines qx9750, 4Gb ram, 2x rad 3850 alienware (at £3500, recently bought) in every regard :D
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Just worth thinking about sound card, especially if you'll be using this rig for recording. The SSDs are, at this stage, expendable because they still don't have the price/performance ratio when compared with normal disks in RAID0, but I'm not sure what else would give to let in a decent sound card...
Good you mentioned about the building, because I was going to suggest that, otherwise. I always build my own machines - but that's because I enjoy it! Also, it gives you complete control over everything, especially cases and other peripherals. I'm a bit of a control freak when it comes to this sort of thing ;)
Roo
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I've no experience of Mesh, but a couple of years ago they were getting very good reviews, but a couple of years is a long time!
Here is an article on SSD write endurance that I found, seesm that a good SSD will outlast a standard HDD. I'm strongly considering an SSD option when i have to replace our SQL server at work. Standard HDD for storage, SSD for SQL and OS. OUr databases are quite small, so i coudl get the OS, SQL and the databases on a 36GB disk (raid of course). If I were speding your kind of budget I'd seriously think about putting my OS on a SSD, and room for my heaviest apps.
http://www.storagesearch.com/ssdmyths-endurance.html (http://www.storagesearch.com/ssdmyths-endurance.html)
Both of the systems you've listed should kickass though :) I'm envious.
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Oh point taken on price / performance, it doesn't stack up, but like anything once you start pushing the edge, it gets expensive. (I belive they said on Top Gear the other week it cost about £10M to get a F1 car to go a second a lap faster)
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Your envious - I'm fricken insane! I've never spent close to that on a PC before. I'm clearly losing it, especially seeing as what I have now is pretty quick, just not very reliable. Plus £1700 is cutting it a bit close, unless I can sell my current rig.
Roo - my soundcard, if you can call it that, which you cant, really, is an RME Fireface 800. I think I'm pretty set :D (I never entertained for an instant using the on board sound for recording, or even listening too - its for films, youtube, that sort of thing, if anything at all)
Cheers for the article, ailean
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In which case, it looks like you're sorted ;)
FWIW you wouldn't *need* to put two SSDs in RAID. That would be SICK, though!!!
Roo
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Oh point taken on price / performance, it doesn't stack up, but like anything once you start pushing the edge, it gets expensive. (I belive they said on Top Gear the other week it cost about £10M to get a F1 car to go a second a lap faster)
Yeah, exactly. I normally try to get stuff thats a couple of steps behind cutting edge. But it seems that instead of this I'd gone totally nuts. *shrugs* what can you do?
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In which case, it looks like you're sorted ;)
FWIW you wouldn't *need* to put two SSDs in RAID. That would be SICK, though!!!
Roo
It would be way expensive too!
I dont know how that would work with the i7s is the main thing. It seems that it could open the throttle on it, on paper, but it might be barely noticable in practice.
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If you're going to RAID some disks together, you'll be just fine with normal 7200rpm drives (although do have a think about getting a couple of raptors instead - price it up and see what it looks like. 10k disks do make a difference!!)
Roo
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Price with 160Gb 7200s: (less one card and downgraded PSU)
1418
With 150Gb raptors:
1618
With 64Gb SSDs
1682
Now, that seems rather a lot to me for hard drives.
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I'd go for 74 gig Raptors, personally - easily enough for the main apps and OS - other less used apps can go on the storage disks ;)
But you're right, it's quite a lot of money!
Roo
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They arent in the options :( Maybe if I call them, or look elsewhere.
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Well, on the systems I'm building, I'll be choosing a solid state disk if I possibly can. Apologies for not having gone through this in more detail (my last post was a rushed send job as the bus pulled up outside my house!)!
With that said, a pair of 7200k rpm dsks in RAID0 are likely to be fast enough. Of course, a pair of Raptors would be nicer ;)
I tend to go for one or two large storage disks, and a couple of smaller disks in RAID0 if I'm feeling like I need the speed for the OS. That helps to keep costs down, although naturally the read and write operations to your storage disks become rate-limiting.
Re: ATX - that's where BTX comes in, no? Or maybe a Lian Li V343B (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-098-LL&groupid=701&catid=7&subcat=187&name=Lian%20Li%20PC-343B%20Aluminium%20Cube%20-%20Black) :D
If you're going for 7200krpm, then go for a Samsung spinpoint, in alot of benchmarks they've been seen to go faster than WD Raptors, but personally, I'd allways go SCSI if you can afford it.
But yes, HD Speeds are definitely the biggest bottleneck in high spec PCs today, most other new tech is hugely overkill compared to the ancient hard drives most people use.
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+1 for the spinpoints, they're seriously good drives.
But you're right about SCSI if it's at all an option, it will beat a traditional 7200k rpm SATA disk hands down.
Roo
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How relaible are they? I'll be raiding them after all.
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How relaible are they? I'll be raiding them after all.
Spinpoints or SCSI?
SCSI is the main HD tech in servers, most servers use PERC cards to run their HD's. PERC is a beefed up SCSI card that has it's own power supply backup and all sorts of other gee wizz stuff that I know nothing about. But they do kick ass.
I've heard good things of Spinpoint, but I don't know how reliable they are. I've been using Seagate Barracuda's for my last few HD's.
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How relaible are they? I'll be raiding them after all.
Well, I've never heard any horror stories to do with them, so I assume they're as reliable as the next hard drive from a reputable make.
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Ok, thanks (yes, I meant spinpoints)
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Thought I would let you know that Mesh are extremely late arriving.
Mine was due about 10 days ago, I rang them up yesterday (for the second time). Was about to to start educating them on how slack they were, and he hung up... (I had been polite and hadn't even starting having a go and the like)
Either way, it arrived this morning via DHL before 10AM.
Just a heads up for their business ethics, customer care attitude etc.
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just thought I'd add to the thread that raiding drives doesn't improve the seek time so for gaming and windows load speed it doesn't do anything (at least from the benchmarks I saw ages ago anyway)
my raid 0 array died when I returned from a festival which put me off it forever, but I think someone using my PC broke it some how because it wasn't that old at the time
MDV how many sticks of ram are you using current? I've heard of problems with motherboards struggling with 4 sticks, which is the main thing putting me off using 8Gb of ram in the current upgrade I have planned (not that 8Gb makes a difference over 4GB I was just thinking of future proofing since DDR2 PC800 RAM is so cheap)
if you spend £1700 on a computer then you have too much money, my upgrade will cost about £1000 but my hardware is over 5 years old