Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Drac on October 03, 2005, 08:31:09 AM
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-Amptone-
We all want it,
& even if you got it, ye'll always be looking on the other side of the fence ANYWAY to confirm what you thought you "already" knew...
We're all biased-TUBES, or SOLIDSTATE/FET?
what do prefer, and why?-blow as much wind as ye like
-I think we are stage specific here, too...Please don't bring yer POD 'bean' to Donnington-
-If you do other things for recording, studio/home,
well, chinwag on that , too...
I prefer tubes-To me, they are the real thing...
like magnetic pickups vs. Variax, or VG8 instrument modeling...
not unlike "electronic" church bells coming from a speaker from a thing that looks like a bell.
-the difference is as subtle as that between
1) a love sandwich with supermodels,
& 2) 'taking care of things' oneself...
Tubes are the 'real' organic deal-I like a FAT backbreaking backline pumping guitar so thick, you can lean back into it...
I 'believe' the sound- I like the purity, and feel like tubes are
part of the best recipe-
-brain/fingers/axe/pickup/amps/cabs/money shot!
-For recording scratch-cue tracks,sonic sketch pad,writing,practicing,etc.
Anything will do...I clock lots of time in Amplitube-an amp modeling suite in ProTools, and a little Zoom pocket studio-can play crunchy guitar at the beach!
-but-I don't want it on my "boxset of best-ofs "-(delusions of grandeur,sorry)
It's also important to me that my recordings sound like my live sound, and things don't get so layered/'cut&pasted' it won't work live.-think of the contrast between the rolling stones albums, & their parody of themselves melting down live...Ok-quick!-forget it again, sorry...
In my opinion, Tubes are "home cooking", the original organic object of what solid state and modeling is striving for in the end- and although SS/Fet may create a likeness, it's another substance under the sonic microscope...
I want the 'real' deal for playing live, and recording.
Got G.A.S. ? : (Gear Acquistion Syndrome )-I bloody do!
I'm always fiddling in my pursuit of the sonic grail-Beware!
beach-combing in the dark for amptone & button pressing is relevant, but not guitar playing-If you shred, someone might pluck you from oblivion, and bring the creamiest gear to YOU, or ,(dream on) , give it to you/PAY YOU to play it...
If you play like a devil, people don't care what you play,they just want to hear MORE...The most dangerous billiard player will win with the most crooked stick.
-There are no rules, but we all have ways that work for us-
How do YOU do it, and why?- I want to know!
-Fair thee well, axeslingers!-
yer cohort in soundcrimes,
old Drac
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Right, then -
tubes 100%.
S.S.- 0%
-I knew it!
-there you have it, thanks for coming!
that was great, I'd like to thank the tube manufacturers for sponsoring my production of this poll, and padding my slush fund-
- Drac
ps: Just kidding!- please particate in the poll, me bruthers!
-for the record: I have voted ONCE, yes: "SURPRISE !" : tubes...D.
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I think it's a case of horses for courses. I love the sound of a full on valve job and for me it's a case of the older the better within certain limits. But I also play in a function band that has no backline at all except for one small, 30w, bass amp as a back fill monitor. Everything else is racked up, 3 power amps, dual 31 band EQ, 3 way crossover, lexicon, finaliser, guitar preamps, effects etc etc. All topped of with a Yamaha R02 desk. The rest of the PA is a mix of JBLs and Reflektor bass bins. It's perfect for what we do, we can get a studio like mix in anything from a restaurant to a large conference centre without a guitar amp in sight. So it just depends on what you want / need from your gear in any given situation in my view.
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Are we taking about tube being overdriven or tube amp played in their 'nornal' active range ?? Tube amps when overdriven produce a much more natural sound than SS amps, I'm sure most would agree. However if you want a tonally clean sound then a SS amp is very good if not better then a tube amp. If we are talking about tube overdrive then Im on the tube amp side. If we are talking about an amp in with clean sound I would prefer to use good studio monitors as they do not distort the sound, and have a very flat response. Tube amps tend to colour the sound in a very pleaseant way, but this may not be what you were looking for.
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All the best amps I have played have been 100% all valve, the Orange AD30 and the C7-a-like are pretty much "the dogs bollox" for me. If I was playing metal, for the sound I want, I'd go valve, but several good players have had excelletn solid state metal tones, it's just not my thing. Pantera is the foremost in mind. And wether or not he changed afterwards, I think Cowboys From Hell sounds fantastic.
Apparently some jazzers like SS amps too.
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Some clarity-
Stage Backline of your own,full gig volume
or Studio recording, thinking big, magnum opus...
or every day noodling, too,-
what you would, if you could...
what you use now-are you happy?
-have you found it, or are you still looking?
What's your ideal /preference/ bias, & why?
-Drac
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Well the Laney I'm using gets me by, the Ashdown that's in the shop already was excellent, and crankable to en extent at home. Also the effects loop can be used to slave it out, so I can get pretty much the sound I'm after at home for recording or at small gigs or jam sessions. If I wanted more volume, by virtue of needing that volume in the first place I'd be playing "professionalyl enough" to justify getting Matamp to make a "bigger C7" for me. It fills all the niches though, and the only reason I wouldn't use it is if it was late at night, then it's headphones and effects box all the way.
For the PA it absolutely has to be 100% clear and transparent, so the opposite to valves applies for me.
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my rig at home is my JCM800 attenuated down with a MASS, the amps usually on 4 Master volume :twisted:
crazyily good tone.
WIll never go back to SS or modelling amps (apart from my Guitarport to play late\practice with a basic tone + headphones) too much tweaking and messing about for my tastes... they dont really sound BAD... just different...
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Whatever.....I own valves and chips, if it has a degree of dynamic response and sounds good for its function then great. JCM800s aren't great at home, the Roland Microcube's fun at home but no good for a gig.......get what I mean?
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I think we're all thinking similar thoughts...
-the "golf iron" approach...Right tool for the job, & conditions...
versus the "swiss army knife"-'a little of everything, and nothing well' theory...
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at midnight, the gig might be in your head (phones),
and all the kit in the world won't make a difference...
interesting...
Don't stop now, gang...
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I voted tubes, although I'm kinda 50/50 - I have a PodXT running through an Atomic Reactor.
Before the Atomic I had never owned a valve amp (played loads though), and it made such a positive difference to the Pod 's tone that I wouldn't be without it now.
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I voted WHATEVER, because they both have a prominent place in my life.
When I'm working on writing demos, or practicing, it is often more important that I play quietly, with headphones. So, I use a modeler for those purposes.
When rehearsing for a show, or recording, I try to always use my actual rig.
Tonally, I prefer the tube rig. But ... lepermeesa is able to get killer tones from his POD, however.
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I go for tubes. More dynamic, more natural and it pushes the sound better. I agree that Dime had a great sound from his solid state but I still wouldn't buy one. I saty as far away as possible from the digital stuff. It might be fun to experiment with or maybe for home practicing.
How about a post on Vinyl vs. CD vs. Mp3? :roll:
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I have hated all solid state and especially modeling amps since i had a Line 6 Flxtone II XL. It sounded pretty thin but not too bad, until it broke after a week, so they sent me a new one, whihch broke, then i got a third on, which broke. They suck. So now i go through a nice series of pedals into my DSL 50 and i love it. The distortion is huge on it. I am lookin at getting my teeth into a Fender Custom Vibrolux. It is the cleanest, most pure amp i have ever heard. I adore it. Hopefully i can get it around christmas and A/B it. SWEET!
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In an ideal world( ie. where you have roadies, time for a soundcheck etc) and every venue is large enough for you to crank it up, I'd go for a valve amp but the reality is that I play a wide variety of stuff in my band and we have to "be" so many groups. I have lately been using an old Laney tranny amp and frankly it sounds bloody good and at just about any volume. So, as usual, I am sitting on the fence but it is horses for courses. I have had an offer of a variax from a rich never satisfied bloke I know who buys gear one week and sells it the next. On one level it leaves me cold but at the same time, I can see the use for such stuff.
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How about a post on Vinyl vs. CD vs. Mp3? :roll:
Why? You've already got the heirarchy right!! ;)
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Whatever works for you as an individual, personally I've always liked valve amps they're warmer and more harmonically rich.Saying that alot of seriously great players have gone SS route with amazing results.
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IMO, the word 'tranny' says it all. It's something that tries to be something it isn't.
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IMO, the word 'tranny' says it all. It's something that tries to be something it isn't.
:lol: :lol: i like that.....
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I find transistor amps don't have the dynamics I like. When you attack the strings hard with a valve amp you can get a sweet distortion that cleans up when you play lighter. Transistor amps don't do this. For home I have a stero 3 watt EL84 amp (Lexicon Signature 284), even this is loud, but I have attenuators on the speaker cabinets and can bring the volume down using them.
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IMO, the word 'tranny' says it all. It's something that tries to be something it isn't.
That's classic. :lol:
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I guess the bottom line is; valve amps contribute to the sound you want to get, like speaker voicing, cabinet design/constuction, guitar leads etc etc, ad infinitum. Solid state gear is better at totally faithful reproduction (who uses a valve driven power amp?) and although the various manufacturers have tried to emulate "valve sound" with their solid state kit, they have obviously failed. How can you reproduce something so complex and so variable? However; here's still a place for both in the live music biz
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AHahHAAHAhahah TRANNY, ahHAAHahaHAHAHAHAHAHA
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You can Ahaha ha ha as much as you like. 500w guitar amp stacks belong in Jurassic Park. If you ever play a big, like really big gig your overall sound, "front of house", will depend on the PA and solid state amps. All you want from your guitar amp is a signal source and yes an all tube job is going to give you more of what you want. All you really need is about 50 watts, tops! You can't fill a large hall from the backline without having a totally shite overall sound. If we're just talking guitar amp fine tubes rule. But if we're talking the right tool for the right job let's get real.
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call me a nutter, but you dont need more than 5 watts in any valve amp, me personally I go for the low watt class A, subtle clean and complex sound. I love that 'zappa' tone and it's impossible to get without valve amps. I'm also very fond of the Peavey Bandit 112, the newest model, with a preamp valve and solid state rectifier, great live!
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I voted valves. About 6-7 years ago i found a 5 watt valve amp in a second hand shop for £40. It a 60's dallas scala with Mullard valves, its a bit noisy sometimes but it has the best sound i have ever heard. I have since built a little 5 watt fender champ reproduction which sounded awfull at first but after changing a few valves for NOS ones it really came to life.
Although....I was in a newly kitted out studio last year that had all brand new amps. There was a fender twin, orange stack and combo and a vox ac30. These are all amps i have dreamed of owning but none of them lived up to my expectations. I think with a re-valve they could be great but stock they were nothing special and you can see how people think all these modeling amps are close to achieveing the valve sound we all desire
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^ I also tried a Vox AC30 at the studio our band practises in and it was pretty bad sounding, the JCM900 was cr@p as well.
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Although I do prefer valves to SS I think its a bit like comparing strawberry and chocolate ice-cream. Both do the job but in a different way and it's down to taste and situation as to which works for you . My first amp was a Marlin 10 watt combo, and I got what I thought was a nice a crunchy sound, even better when I got my Boss Digital Metalizer. I then upgraded to a Laney AOR pro-tube 30 watt valve combo and to this day can find a sound I'm completely happy with but I do love the responsiveness of valves which I haven't found replicated in SS.
It just so happens valves were invented before SS and therefore became the 'standard', imagine if it had been the other way around, maybe we'd be complaining about valve amps being too coloured, saggy and un-transistor like!
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I have never played any tube amps but they are more expensive, therefore they are better than solid state.
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..Which is also why Rolex is better than Timex even though a quartz watch keeps time far better than a mechanical watch (especially a Rolex!)
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i prefer tubes... out of everything I've tried.
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I voted 'whatever' - it all depends on the job at hand. I'll not mention SS with regard to anything other than valve amps as that's what we're really discussing here.
For vintage tones and any type of cleans I'd go valve every time - I love my AC30 for clean/crunch and it will even do a good rawk raunch a-la Brian May with a booster.
For metal it's gotta be solid state - there is a tightness and precision in the low end that is perfect for what I want. If money were no object and someone else was carrying this stuff for me, I'd have a decent valve amp in the mix too since the midrange in valve amps is brutal (would use a JCM800).
I think the problem with much of the tranny stuff out there is that it's designed for the budget end of the market. The more expensive and better designed tranny stuff can be really good (Randall, Line6)
:twisted:
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I also have a late 70's solid state VOX AC30. It is actualy quite a nice sounding amp. It has a very warm sound compared to most early solid state amps and the vib/trem channel is classic vox, but it lacks any of the dynamics of a valve amp. I dont claim to be a very good player anymore (since i concentrate on building) but i enjoy using an amp that is part of the instrument. A good valve amp will respond to the way you play in a way solidstate and modelling amps just cant get right.
PS. If anyone wants to buy a late 70's VOX AC30SS, i have one for sale.
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I like the tone of tube amps, however, I love it when I use the solid state rectifier in my tube amp. Makes it as tight as full solid state metal tones but its $%&#ing tube. I like the guts.
But tubes amps are a bit over hyped. Actually, I'm talking about that "warm sound." Sometimes I can make my amp sound so warm its abrasive and downright irritating. When I "cool" off the signal it makes it much more pleasant. I like the cold mid cut, bass and treble boosted sound on amps. With solid state amps, I can have more mid range without it sounding warm. Sometimes that comes in handy.
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I voted 'whatever..' because IMO they both have there place. Tubes of course will always sound better and just generaly be louder than ss circuits. But they are extremely overpriced nowadays and for the average hobbyist / bedroom player a good ss amp can do good to 'emulate' cranked tube tone. I'd say tube = Live performance / Rehearsal and Recording and SS = solitary practice / small jam sessions *NOT RECORDING
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one disadvantage of valves is that they can sound over rich in harmonics to the point when it just sounds like a mush of sound, I have certanly noticed this with driven louder valve amps. From my experiences valves go muddy realtivley quick as well and start dying very soon! (sometimes sounding like gollum vomiting in a cave) buuuuaaaah, buaaaaah. lol. I prefer hybrid amps, like preamp valve's SS rectification, without sag, cos its punchier, and still not too agressive at the same time. I think Vai has got it spot on, I love his Carvin amp.
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^ yeh thats true, I played a small 'guitar recital' last year with a cranked plexi (attenuated). The gig was recorded and now looking back on it the sound is VERY fogged and mushy. Of course ther were alot of other contrbuting factors (Like the guy had a friggen cowboy blanket drapped over the cab and Im pretty sure I had my guitar tone knob turned almost to '0').
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I like valves, but that might be the result of the simple equation age+ears+guitar= love of valves.
I wonder if James Marshall Hendrix were a young man today whether he would be tubing it or going mental with some computerised rig.I bet the Arctic Monkeys will do more for guitar than..well a shed load of experts.
I reckon guitar icons don't give a monkeys' what the rest of us think, they go for their own sound and one day the rest of us follow. I remember being about 16 and beng told Steve Vai was all noise once.
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Tubes, fullness, warmth, compression, need I say more?
There have been some decent solid state tones, but they're still thin and fizzy...
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Tubes, fullness, warmth, compression, need I say more?
There have been some decent solid state tones, but they're still thin and fizzy...
tell me if this sounds thin and fizzy... http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4988&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
:twisted: