Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => The Dressing Room => Topic started by: Will on December 29, 2008, 12:51:50 PM
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Haven't been paid for a bit, and have some cheques coming my way next week.
I have been planning to purchase one in the sales, anybody got any recommendations?
What should I be looking for in one? I can't be arsed to spend loads, but something that wouldn't get outdated too quickly.
Also, whats the best way to connect them? HDMI?
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im not sure if its still the case, but a ps3 was the best value Blueray player about for quite a long time. yea hdmi is the best way
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To be quite honest, I wouldn't go for the PS3 for the blu-ray player. Why do you want a blu ray player? What's wrong with DVD? Or do you have a widescreen and want full leisure usage of it?
Unless you have a big widescreen, blu-ray/PS3 isn't worth it.
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Well I need a DVD player basically, but why spend £30 now when it will be better to upgrade in a year?
May as well spend the extra now. And yeah, would like to make use of the HD-ness since my TV has it
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Prices have dropped sharply on Blu-ray players. The PS3 is not the least expensive option, though it's still the best choice if you want a full server/gaming/Blu-ray/interweb solution.
Blu-ray is really stunning on a 1080p display that's been properly set up.
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I'm not an expert but I'd go for a PS3 just because its so much more versatile than a standalone player and I've heard the blu-ray player and upscaling on it is good as well. Plus Little Big Planet looks awesome. I'm considering getting one when the prices go down, just for that game really :lol:
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If you're not interested in the gaming side then the Sony BDP-S350 is great. I got mine from Amazon - it was on offer for £154.99 but now appears to be listed at £174.99. Should be some good sale prices in the next few weeks.
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That looks like a good one, I was also looking at TSRTS to buy :P
Ben, what do you mean 'if set up properly', I understand literally, but what would I be doing that is hindering its full capability? (your about to suggest a crazy sound system?)
Thanks for the help, I don't really want a PS3 because for the price of it, I won't use the games, I don't really care for them.
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Ben, what do you mean 'if set up properly' but what would I be doing that is hindering its full capability? (your about to suggest a crazy sound system?)
Nah, not at all. What I meant is that you would want to make sure that the video of your display is calibrated correctly. Without a colour analyzer this cannot be done 100%, but you can greatly improve the quality of your video by making sure that the colour, tint, brightness, sharpness, etc aren't crushing any part of the colour spectrum, nor distorting the image.
There's a great setup DVD called the Avia Guide To Home Theater that walks you step by step through this process and is perfect for the casual viewer.
In fact, many of the test patterns that you need are on most THX DVD releases under the menu option THX Optimizer, but without the know-how (and the proper colour filters that come with a setup DVD like Avia) the patterns are useless.
To take it one step beyond would be to have someone (like myself) do an ISF calibration on your display. That will involve making sure that the grey balance is correct first. (Essentially means that you are ensuring that the display is putting out the proper ratio of red:green:blue). This often means going into the service menu for your display.
The really gung-ho method is to get your own colour analyzer from Sencore and a copy of Digital Video Essentials and doing the ISF calibration yourself.
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I got the Sony at £159 on Amazon just before Xmas - came with 3 free discs and another 2 free on registration - excellent buy! Mind you I did lash out on a TV too.... Blockbuster were also doing a good deal with some discs and free rentals bundled in
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Ive heard that if blueray doesnt doesnt start making more money, then manufacturers are going to start investing in upscaling or a new format....does this sound like bullshiff?
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Ive heard that if blueray doesnt doesnt start making more money, then manufacturers are going to start investing in upscaling or a new format....does this sound like bullshiff?
Yes.
Blu-ray is the stop-gap until two things happen: our notion of 'bandwidth' is eliminated, and usable storage in the multi-TB range becomes common. Then all mechanical sales will be done away with and you will be downloading everything.
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Ive heard that if blueray doesnt doesnt start making more money, then manufacturers are going to start investing in upscaling or a new format....does this sound like bullshiff?
If it doesn't make money then SOMETHING will happen. The problem with bluray is that (as good as it is) it's not THAT big an upgrade from DVD, it's not a must have, it's a nice to have, where the VHS to DVD became a must have. Investing in a new format will only work if they can come up with a must have, and that's unlikely as not everyone can view HD yet, let alone another format. I'm lucky enough to have a HD tv and a PS3. I own 2 bluray (non game) shows, 1 which came free with the PS3, the other I bought. If I want to buy a film or TV show I'll buy the DVD because it's a 1/3 of the price and the picture quality is still pretty good. I suspect they might well start investing a a really good upscaler for regular DVD's, I also own an Xbox 360 and the upscaling on that is pretty good (colour isn't great though) and that's just a tacked on feature to a games console (I have the early version with the hardware upscaler).
One trick they might pull is to stop releasing DVD's and sell only on bluray, but the DVD domiance is too big for that at the moment.
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Just to add to what is said above the Sony 350 is a very good player for the price it is also a VERY VERY Good DVD player with very good de-interlacing and upscaling (It can also be made multi regions for SD dvd very easily).
I admit I'm in the minority of having very good eyesight but even on a HD ready 32" screen the difference between DVD and BluRay is very clear to see. OK it's not the jump between VHS and DVD but it's a good upgrade. Along with the extra resolution something overlooked is the extra colour depth on HD which makes a big difference.
RE film prices as long as you buy online and maybe pre order then the prices aren't that bad EG my BluRay of The Dark Knight was 2 quid more than the DVD on release and well worth the extra, the IMAX full screen scenes are so 3d looking you feel you could fall into the TV.
The Other benefit of Bluray is the films are not longer sped up by 4% to fit into the PAL standard, this really used to bug the hell out of me it doesn't bother some people but it drove me nuts...
I think this image shows nicely the difference between upscaling and HD (Upscaled with a Oppo player which is regarded as top notch when it comes to upscaling)
(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9854/iceage2compku8.jpg)
RE Screen calibration buy WallE (Great looking film) and use the BlurRay optimizer on the disk to set up your TV
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I'm sick of people telling us that Blu-Ray isn't worth it, or that it's a pretty indistinguishable difference.
The difference is HUGE. MASSIVE. ENORMOUS. Anyone who says otherwise needs new glasses or a television made this century![/rant]
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That upscaling screenshot is beautiful. The definition in the hair is great.
I went for the Sony one after all, it had good reviews about being relatively cheap and quality upscaling.
My Girlfriend thought I was mad for ordering a cartoon in BR (Surfs up ofcourse ;) ) but Phlip has proven its worth there.
I shall try other methods, but if needs be, probably worth finding someone with knowledge near Ben's to set it up.
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The PS3 is still pretty much the best all-round Blu-Ray player there is. It's just more future-proof, faster loading and versitile. As for the quality difference, if you're used to progressive scan DVD on quality equipment, no it isn't that huge. However you really do notice it when you go from watching Blu-Rays back to DVD. You don't really notice how much better the image is until you go back and all the horrid little faults DVD had become all the more apparent.
Same goes for HD audio, but less so. It totally demolishes Dolby Digital, but in comparison to DTS for example, which is twice the bitrate, the jump is nowhere near as big if it's discernable at all. Basically DD sounds flat in comparison to DTS. Saying that I think I have a single disk that justifies Lossless PCM on it's own; Within Temptation: Black Symphony. I was utterly floored by the sound from that disk and have NEVER heard anything multi-channel to touch it. Stunning.
As for setup, HD Essentials is well worth the £10 or so it costs. It comes with colour swatches and test cards so you can calibrate your TV correctly. Takes about 30 mins and you're done. As I say though on a decent enough telly, when it's set right high res stuff is properly jaw dropping. But it will be ruthless of poor sources. Sky particularly.
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There was a recent review on PS3 v basic Blu Ray and the PS3 did not come out very well - not bad but not as good as the Sony BDP-350 - have to say that I do like my BDP-350 - very good indeed
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There was a recent review on PS3 v basic Blu Ray and the PS3 did not come out very well - not bad but not as good as the Sony BDP-350 - have to say that I do like my BDP-350 - very good indeed
Please continue, how did the BDP-350 fare at gaming?
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^^ This thread is for me Noodle :lol: I don't do games.
Jokes aside, Why would sony make a PS3 as good as a full BDP? Even if they were super nice, and did do that, then surely the PS3 would cost more?
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http://whathifi.com/Review/Sony-PlayStation3-80GB/
I think that it is 'horses for courses' - if you are a gamer who also likes DVDs then a PS3 is probably good enough; if you are mainly a DVD person then the Blu Ray player is probably the way to go - my kids are still quite young, so they are happy with a Wii!
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I once read or heard that bluray doesn't make much difference unless you have a 65"+ screen, what do you guys think to such statements?
I've only seen bluray once from a PS3 on a 32" TV (probably 720p not 1080p) I could see the difference but I wasn't like "wow!!!" I didn't think the difference was worth the extra price, if I saw a 1080p picture maybe my opinion would be different
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@ JDC -- it would.
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I've got a 37" 1080p screen and the difference is noticable. However I set up 50" Panasonic 1080p screen for a friend and that was properly jawdropping. So yes, to a degree, the bigger and better the screen, the more you notice the difference.
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http://whathifi.com/Review/Sony-PlayStation3-80GB/
I think that it is 'horses for courses' - if you are a gamer who also likes DVDs then a PS3 is probably good enough; if you are mainly a DVD person then the Blu Ray player is probably the way to go - my kids are still quite young, so they are happy with a Wii!
I personally take anything What Hi-Fi say with a very large pinch of salt. They seem to review things 'out of the box' when it comes to HC kit rather that spending some time and properly setting it up. That certainly used to be the case with a lot of them to be fair. Also they really do exaggerate these differences sometimes. I don't know whether it's to make the writing more colourful or to appease advertisers (though in this case they're both Sony products so who knows). But there comes a certain point when diminishing returns kick in, and you're very much there when you're comparing the relative differences of the highest quality home video medium currently available.
The performance differences between a Sony domestic BD player and the PS3 are going to be minimal. There will be a cost difference in favour of the player due to the kit that's in a PS3. Likewise there are plus points to the PS3. For example it transcodes everything into LPCM meaning you can get away with an cheap amp that handles that but isn't licensed for Dolby True Audio or DTS-HD as the PS3 takes care of it. Handy for me for example, that uses the processing stage of a cheap Yamaha integrated amp (chipset and processing shared with the higher end models) and run it into a decent power amp. Also, the PS3 has so much grunt and is updated so frequently that it's pretty much future proof.
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i've got a Panasonic DMP-BD55 blu-ray player, and i'm very happy with it. blu-ray looks and sounds wonderful and it makes my dvd's look the best they ever have. now, it doesn't look or sound any better than my old HD-DVD player, but that's a whole other debate!
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I got the BD35 for xmas. Its amazing. Better then the sony as it upscales better and slightly better picture ingeneral although it costs slightly more. I got the multi region one for £195. Its been the best blue ray under £500 for a while. I say that cos in a few mags a pioneer has knocked it off its top spot, but the pioneer costs over £400!!
The BD55 is only worth getting if you dont have modern connections. Theres no difference in picture quality or sound. Get one!! best thing ive got in ages.
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Just arrived, I think the colours will need a set up, but the contrast and depth is far better than DVD (I'm upscaling Blades of Glory at the moment). I seem to be especially impressed by the sound, but I don't know if there is sound upscaling :?
Can't wait for my BDs to arrive. Pirates of the C trilogy, Led Zep TSRTS '73, and Surfs up :)
I went for the sony 350, I was tempted by the 550, but couldn't justify it really
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No sound upscaling, as such, unless you have something that can decode Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master Sound ... but the digital output might be much better than your old DVD player ...
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No sound upscaling, as such, unless you have something that can decode Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master Sound ... but the digital output might be much better than your old DVD player ...
Thats certainly true on DVD's on BluRays the player will output the Core DD or DTS track used as the basis of the HD Audio stream these almost without fail are at the full bitrate supported by DD and DTS which you rarely get on DVD's due to space limitations.
Oh and the 350 v 550 the only difference is if you want the player to decode HD Audio and send it via PCM or Analogue outs to a non HD supporting AV Amp (The 550 can PCM/decode both the 350 only Dolby TrueHD) . There's no difference in picture quality between the 2.
Enjoy the 350 if you have any set-up questions just ask :D
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No sound upscaling, as such, unless you have something that can decode Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master Sound ... but the digital output might be much better than your old DVD player ...
Thats certainly true on DVD's on BluRays the player will output the Core DD or DTS track used as the basis of the HD Audio stream these almost without fail are at the full bitrate supported by DD and DTS which you rarely get on DVD's due to space limitations.
I'm not doubting that you've read or heard this somewhere, but do you have a source to back this up? It sounds like hype to me. I would like to read about this, as I've never heard of any "down res" DD or DTS bitrates ... in all cases that I've read about and seen, it is the video that is compressed and made to suffer when it comes to storage space, not the audio bit stream, as it takes up as much space as is necessary, either DPL II, DD, DTS, DD EX or DTS ES. This is why many DVDs only have one discrete digital soundtrack. Politics (and Lucas' "benevolent despotic" support of only DD, even tho DTS [and SDDS for that matter] is the proven superior sound format) is also a major factor. I've attended many seminars on the subject and am a member of the Digital Audio sub-commitee for SMPTE.
While technically speaking there is some "play" in the bitrate on a 'standard' DD soundtrack on a Blu-ray disc (either DD or DPL II), when a movie's soundtrack is created, it is a VERY RARE that it will be mixed down at multiple bitrates. I'm unaware of any hanky-panky being done to 'upscale' the bitrate after the fact, however.
Then, of course, is the question of whether you can even hear the piddling difference between 500 and 600 kbits/sec through your audio system. That is another issue entirely.
Any and all reference you have for this statement, especially if it's an official SMPTE release, would be appreciated!
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Bloody Hell calm down mate.
I may have worded that badly, you NEVER get full bit rate DD(640kbs) or DTS(1.5mbs) on DVD as they can't support it
The Author can choose what bitrate to encode their soundtrack at for DD and DTS within the standard.
I never said DVD's or Blurays had tracks mixed at multiple bitrates. I also never mentioned upscaling the tracks either.
The HD Audio on Blurays contains the Max bitrate DD and or DTS AND the extra data to make this into the lossless versions if lossless audio is included.
"According to DTS-HD White Paper, the DTS-HD Master Audio contains 2 data streams, the original DTS core stream and the additional "residual" stream, which contains the "difference" between the original signal and the lossy compression DTS core stream."
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In the home, Dolby Digital 5.1 normally operates at either 384kbps or 448kbps (Dolby Digital's maximum bitrate on DVD-Video), but can operate at bitrates as low as 224kbps as used on some IMAX DVDs, or as high as 640kbps. More recently Lion's Gate used 256kbps Dolby Digital 5.1 for its Cube Signature Edition
From here http://www.spannerworks.net/reference/10_1a.asp
Yes it's rare but thats just to show the Author can choose to use a bitrate of their choice within the spec's
Lets not argue this belongs on AVforums..
While we're on evidence where has it been published that DTS is superior? That would be gold for the next DD v DTS argument. everythign I've read has came up with the answer it's subjective (I do prefer DTS tho :D :Dugh!)
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I wasn't arguing (and am not still), I was actually genuinely asking, as there might've been something released that I missed.
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To my fairly f**ked ears, in real terms the difference between HD audio and DTS is minimal. Dolby Digital does sound a bit flat in comparison to the HD standards however, as it does in comparison with DTS. But that's about it. It's certainly nothing to woo yeah about or indeed, spend too much time arguing the toss about.
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soundtrack wise, on both Blu-ray and HD-DVD, i generally felt that the lossless audio sounded good, but not a vast amount better than a good Dts track. recently though, i've heard a couple of soundtracks which have changed my mind. Ratatouille has a PCM soundtrack, and it sounds astounding, you really can tell the difference. my girlfriend reckoned it was all in my head, so immediately after i put on the dvd of Finding Nemo, with it's standard Dolby Digital track, and we were both amazed by how flat and lifeless it seemed straight after the lossless audio. of course, not every soundtrack is going to be a big improvement, just as some titles really don't look much, if any, better than dvd. but the potential is there for really jaw dropping audio quality.
seemingly Pioneer are planning to launch a new music only format using Blu-ray's lossless audio, basically a successor to dvd-audio and sacd. hopefully this time it'll take off, although i still wish someone would make a blu-ray player that would play all my hi-res audio discs.
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The problem I've experienced with DTS it is that it is just too much for my home! For example, watching Gladiator on standard DVD, the DTS soundtrack makes the room shake and is pretty much unwatchable if I'm going to have the slightest regard for the neighbours. The Dolby soundtrack on the other hand does the job sufficiently and I don't have to worry about the ceiling/floor collapsing. I live in a flat though, if I had a detached house it would be DTS all the way.
I've bought the Sony BDPS350 and a 40" Sony Bravia LCD recently and it's great! The BD picture quality on Baraka is fantastic. I can't say I've noticed much difference in the audio quality though.
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Anybody got any setup advice to do basic calibration then? I'm just looking for quick advice while being cheap, if not then I guess I will have to buy WALL-E :lol:
I am interested in the pro calibration thing too, but I think that shall wait a bit
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Video or audio calibration?
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Digital Video Essentials (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Video-Essentials-Basics-Blu-ray/dp/B000V6LST0)
For sound a sound meter and a tape measure (never been able to get a decent set up out of the inbuilt auto calibration things).
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Video or audio calibration?
Video - I'm thinking of just investing in one of those sets ^ but I don't like spending money
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Video or audio calibration?
Video - I'm thinking of just investing in one of those sets ^ but I don't like spending money
To be honest it seems a lot for something you'll only use every time you swap out your telly. But it does get it set right and unless you buy a Pioneer plasma, most sets are miles away from where they should be out of the box. A Panasonic I set up recently was also pretty close to be fair. Most use 'shop' settings with massively ramped contrast because they seem to think it'll make them stand out in shops (I'm looking at you Sony). Another trick is to soften the image so that poor sources look better as again in shops, they usually have one cr@ppy feed distributed to all the sets. The problem with that is that you lose detail. It goes on.
Once you get your head around the 3 test cards you need to use for a basic setup (pluge for white balance/black level, the colour card that you use with the swatches to get that close and the sharpness test card) you can get a set pretty damned close to reference in about 10 mins. If you're anal and your telly allows it you can do the individual colours, but that can take bloody ages.
The thing is, if you're watching HD material and you want it presented optimally, it is worth £12 and half an hour of your time. The single only downside is that low res and poor quality sources will be torn apart by a good quality well set up monitor. It's the price you pay I'm afraid.
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I still recommend Avia for non-professionals over DVE, for various reasons.
But juansolo has it mostly correct.
B U T .... You can never get black and white balance correct until your display is properly calibrated to be putting out 6500 degrees Kelvin at both 80 and 30 IRE.
The reason for this is that most displays are pushing one colour more than the other two (out of red, green and blue) in order to make their set stand out, just as juansolo pointed out above.
Without starting from that "zero point", you can never have a truly well-tuned display.
But yes, if all you are interested is in the basics, you can get a good chunk of the way there in a short period of time.
NOTE: Always let your display warm up for 30 min or so before doing any adjustments, as the power supply needs to stabilize.