Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: Twinfan on January 06, 2009, 11:17:04 AM
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While I was driving into work this morning, I was thinking about all the things I've learned about guitar tone over the 25 or so (!) years I've been playing. The money I've spent, the gear I've used, the people I've spoken to, the magazines I've read etc, and I wondered what my top 10 'wisdoms' would be. I made a mental note of a few, and over a coffee break this morning I've come up with the rest. I thought I'd share them and see what you guys think. Obviously these are all just my own opinion, and your opinions may well vary! :)
1 ) Great tone is all about the combination of guitar + effects + amp + speakers. Some elements just 'work' with others, and some just don't. Very few things work universally well with all other bits of gear. In the words of Paul Reed Smith - "everything affects everything else".
2 ) Your amplifier is as important, if not more important, than the guitar you use. Play through as many different models as you can before choosing which one to buy.
3 ) Anything expensive is nearly always worth the cost, unless it's specifically designed for collectors. In which case it isn't. This now applies to vintage gear, which should be left to the aforementioned collectors.
4 ) Some bits of gear, especially guitars, just won't suit you no matter what you do to them. If it's not over 90% 'right' as standard, sell it and buy something else. You can't polish a turd.
5 ) As tyres for your car are the link between you and the road, speakers are your tone's link to your ears. Like amplifiers, try as many different types as you can and buy the best you can afford.
6 ) Old valves are not worth buying any more as they're either worn out, rejects or ridiculously expensive. Use new JJs, especially the Gold Pin versions, as a default option.
7 ) ClearTone cables ( www.award-session.com/cleartone_cables.html ) are tonally transparent, high quality and incredibly well priced. Do not get sucked in by marketing.
8 ) Speaker cabinets should be made of birch plywood as this gives strength to the box and prevents the speaker sounding 'loose'. Cheap cabinets, made of chipboard, sound cheap and thin - regardless of which speakers are used.
9 ) Superb valve amp tone at low volume is very hard to achieve. Master Volumes only work if the amp's preamp tone alone sounds good. Power Scaling has a cut off where the valves just aren't cooking enough. Attenuators can colour your tone too much and they cook valves quicker. You have to find which option works best for you, as there is no universally 'right' answer.
10 ) At the end of the day, you will always sound like you. Use this to your advantage and chose the gear that suits you, and not what suits someone else. Use your ears!
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I largely agree.
I'd modify the amp is as important as the guitar to amp is WAY more important than the guitar and maybe lament my lack of experimentation with speakers.
A nugget of wisdom or two to attach to the pile
- Get a guitar that feels right to you, sounds good acoustically and is well built. You cant change these things later, and you can get all of them surprisingly cheaply if you look around. With a choice of pickups, nut, bridge, frets and the like you can make a really cheap guitar very very good indeed.
- Play the guitars you intend to buy. The. Exact. One. They vary from A LOT within a particular model and out of the same factory. Ordering blind is hazardous to say the least. You can get lucky, but youre more likely not to. Playing one, liking it and ordering another off the net is a bad idea
- Take your time making purchases. If the thing you really want costs twice as much, wait till you can afford it. Getting cheaper stuff and following an endless upgrade chain is false economy - you usually end up with what you wanted in the first place AND an obsolete and probably sonically offensive bit of junk lying around that you wish you never spent the cash on.
- Wherever you can deal with the people you want to. Go custom, go handmade, go to small shops, establish good relationships, have conversations with helpfull people with expertise that care about you getting what you want. Tim and bare knuckle are in the elite at this (as are Bob at legra, by all acounts Jon at feline, James Peters at peters amps, the dudes at award session, the list goes on - lots of guys like this hang around here, so apologies that I havent mentioned all of you)
- Dont be afraid to try stuff out. You just never know what bit of kit is going to fit like a glove with your style and the rest of your gear, take no notice of name, paint job, advertising blurb. EXPERIMENT.
- If it sounds good, it IS good.
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Weirdly..agree with most of that..not tried award session yet
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Plenty of wisdom there but I have some small points of critisism, if I may.
regarding number 1: The player affects the tone as much as anything else.
Number 3 is mostly true but that's not a golden rule. Some things are way overpriced. I was fortunate enough to try some vintage gear (amps and guitars). The gear was way beyond my budget but I would have bought that stuff I was rich enough.
Can't comment on 7 but I'm still happy with my Spectraflex.
I can agree with the rest. However there will always be people looking for that last 10% of tone and they are willing and able to spend serious money on it. In their eyes (or ears) it's well spent.
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speaking of tone wisdoms, could someone explain what people mean by "tone is in the fingers"
I used to think it was something to do with the left hand but now I think it's just how you pick the string, where you pick it and the angle of the pick
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Plenty of wisdom there but I have some small points of critisism, if I may.
regarding number 1: The player affects the tone as much as anything else.
Number 3 is mostly true but that's not a golden rule. Some things are way overpriced. I was fortunate enough to try some vintage gear (amps and guitars). The gear was way beyond my budget but I would have bought that stuff I was rich enough.
Can't comment on 7 but I'm still happy with my Spectraflex.
I can agree with the rest. However there will always be people looking for that last 10% of tone and they are willing and able to spend serious money on it. In their eyes (or ears) it's well spent.
I keep hearing this, and people seem to overestimate it all the time.
Musically speaking and in playing dynamics every guitarist is different, but try getting chet atkins to play with an EMG equiped les paul through an engl powerballs channel 4 or dallas toler wade to play an ES335 through a fender twin and see how much of their own personal in-the-fingers tone they take with them!!!!
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I'm not just talking about personality of each player's tone. Twinfan mentions it in number 10.
Remember how you sounded when you first picked up a guitar? How would you sound now through that same gear?
If you play badly, all the gear in the world can't help you.
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Thats not tone, thats playing.
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speaking of tone wisdoms, could someone explain what people mean by "tone is in the fingers"
I used to think it was something to do with the left hand but now I think it's just how you pick the string, where you pick it and the angle of the pick
It's in both, in my opinion. How clearly (or not) you fret notes makes a difference, as does how sloppy or tight your right hand technique is. This is what I'm referring to in point 10.
In point 1, I was excluding the players influence (as this is covered in point 10). I was specifically referring to the interaction of gear, but you're right in that the player also contributes to this.
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Very well-thought list, and clearly stated.
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Some good, solid, common sense ideas there, which I agree with. Thanks for taking the trouble to put it down in writing for us all! :)
And I particularly want to highlight the point about ClearTone cables - they really are superb quality and amazing value for money. Of course, this point does directly contradict Paul Reed Smith's (otherwise accurate) statement, and point 3 (because they're CHEAP!), but hey I guess that's why they deserve a point on their own :D
Also MDV's point about talking to people is exceptionally good advice. I made this very mistake when I decided to go for a Randall RG200G3 (200W solid state 2 x12 combo amp). It just wasn't up to scratch, and had I taken the time I should have done to play through many amps and talk to people about them, I would have ended up at my 5150-II a lot sooner! That said, I was lucky not to be financially burned over that one.
Roo
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We used to have jam sessions in the local pub.
It was a great way to try other people's gear in a band situation or to hear someone else play through my gear, taking me out of the tone equasion.
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Sound advice
and if I can add one specifically aimed at me from my girlfriend
"Get off the bloody internet and play your guitar"
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A good point, If I spent my hours of internet browsing for the perfect tone on actually playing, I'd be sh!t hot now.
As it stands I'm just luke warm :?
The rule that is more important that any is just play. I'm off!
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A good point, If I spent my hours of internet browsing for the perfect tone on actually playing, I'd be sh!t hot now.
As it stands I'm just luke warm :?
The rule that is more important that any is just play. I'm off!
You'll be back ;)
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A good point, If I spent my hours of internet browsing for the perfect tone on actually playing, I'd be sh!t hot now.
If I did that I'd be Buckethead by now (in terms of playing, not being barking mad, covered in chickensh!t and living in a henhouse).
I've probably spent more cumulative time on the internet than some of you guys have been alive.
I'd also have a lot of complaints from the neighbours.
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Some good, solid, common sense ideas there, which I agree with. Thanks for taking the trouble to put it down in writing for us all! :)
And I particularly want to highlight the point about ClearTone cables - they really are superb quality and amazing value for money. Of course, this point does directly contradict Paul Reed Smith's (otherwise accurate) statement, and point 3 (because they're CHEAP!), but hey I guess that's why they deserve a point on their own :D
Also MDV's point about talking to people is exceptionally good advice. I made this very mistake when I decided to go for a Randall RG200G3 (200W solid state 2 x12 combo amp). It just wasn't up to scratch, and had I taken the time I should have done to play through many amps and talk to people about them, I would have ended up at my 5150-II a lot sooner! That said, I was lucky not to be financially burned over that one.
Roo
+1.
Cleartone cables is my new religion.
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Some good, solid, common sense ideas there, which I agree with. Thanks for taking the trouble to put it down in writing for us all! :)
And I particularly want to highlight the point about ClearTone cables - they really are superb quality and amazing value for money. Of course, this point does directly contradict Paul Reed Smith's (otherwise accurate) statement, and point 3 (because they're CHEAP!), but hey I guess that's why they deserve a point on their own :D
Also MDV's point about talking to people is exceptionally good advice. I made this very mistake when I decided to go for a Randall RG200G3 (200W solid state 2 x12 combo amp). It just wasn't up to scratch, and had I taken the time I should have done to play through many amps and talk to people about them, I would have ended up at my 5150-II a lot sooner! That said, I was lucky not to be financially burned over that one.
Roo
+1.
Cleartone cables is my new religion.
I've replaed every single one of my cables with cleartone. They're such an improvment, I need to know that my entire signal chain has them in. I have something like 4 20ft, 3 or 4 10ft, 4 mic cables, 5 or 6 patch cables and 5 or 6 1m or 1.5m cables. And that lot still costs less than a third of the number in planet waves and hosas (that I used to use and now look on with disgust).
Its not that they sound better. Its that they dont have a sound - they let your gears full clarity come through. Its awesome. Perfect partner for BKs.
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This thread is turning into an Infomercial for Cleartone cables. :lol:
I think I shuld buy some before they realise how good they are and put the price up. Or go out of business.
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Are these cleartone cables really worth getting? All my cables are made with unbranded cable (as far as I can tell) with neutrik jacks on the ends. Is it going to be worth the switch? These have been great to me for a few years now..
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Good list, Dave. Although you already know that I disagree completely with your comment about old valves. I find good old valves so superior to JJ's and any current production valve that I doubt that I will never use a current production again. And no more expensive than modern valves once you've educated yourslef a bit. It does also depend a lot on the amp circuit though. Some amps will benefit more than others with good valves.
I'd also like to add another point which I have been very guilty of at times, which is ......
......don't forget to adjust your amp's EQ knobs, even if you think you've got your amp sussed. It can make a huge difference between very poor and outstanding tone. I have been guilty many times of moaning about my poor tone all night, and yet forgetting to try adjusting my amp's EQ. I had made an assumption that, as I knew the amp well, I had the EQ set perfectly already. I guess it's just that I'm a bit lazy really, and very stubborn !
I am now realising that each venue might well need completely different settings.
Which leads onto my last point ...... remember that guitar amps/cabs can sound different from day to day, dependant on acoustics, electrical supply, electrical interference, and sheer sorcery !
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I would have three points of "wisdom".
They would be;
If your fingers don't sound good, spending a million pounds on gear will make fuck all difference.
Expense absolutely is not an automatic badge of quality.
Paying too much attention to the opinions of strangers on forums is more often than not immensely counter productive.
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Paying too much attention to the opinions of strangers on forums is more often than not immensely counter productive.
And potentially expensive. :wink:
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Paying too much attention to the opinions of strangers on forums is more often than not immensely counter productive.
And potentially expensive. :wink:
True dat. :lol:
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very expensive
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I would have three points of "wisdom".
They would be;
If your fingers don't sound good, spending a million pounds on gear will make fuck all difference.
Expense absolutely is not an automatic badge of quality.
Paying too much attention to the opinions of strangers on forums is more often than not immensely counter productive.
Yep - have to agree - the most important 'wisdom' in guitar playing/tone is usually 'you'.
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Well I wouldn't argue with much of what you say. I would add that whenever you add effects and twiddle away to get the sound, consider backing every setting off by a third and it'll probably sound better.
Get the best gear that you can but don't buy for the name.
Listen to what your band mates are doing and leave space for them to do their thing. I think all the elements in your chain, guitar, amp, cables etc are of equal importance but the most crucial things are your hands and your ears.
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Well I wouldn't argue with much of what you say. I would add that whenever you add effects and twiddle away to get the sound, consider backing every setting off by a third and it'll probably sound better.
Get the best gear that you can but don't buy for the name.
Listen to what your band mates are doing and leave space for them to do their thing. I think all the elements in your chain, guitar, amp, cables etc are of equal importance but the most crucial things are your hands and your ears.
Amen to that ! ( especially point 3 ). :)
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Listen to what your band mates are doing and leave space for them to do their thing. I think all the elements in your chain, guitar, amp, cables etc are of equal importance but the most crucial things are your hands and your ears.
...but why...I only want to hear me...*L*
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Listen to what your band mates are doing and leave space for them to do their thing. I think all the elements in your chain, guitar, amp, cables etc are of equal importance but the most crucial things are your hands and your ears.
...but why...I only want to hear me...*L*
:lol:
It's time we locked you in a room with Larry Carlton's '335 Blues' tutorial media ... :wink:
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*L* is alright other guitarist has a Hiwatt..you can't miss him....in a good way
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*L* is alright other guitarist has a Hiwatt..you can't miss him....in a good way
Wow ! Enough said then - as Hi-watt is probably the last word in stage / world domination. It's no wonder that Dave Gilmour has to put his Hi-Watt gear facing the other way back stage for good 'balance'. :)
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A good point, If I spent my hours of internet browsing for the perfect tone on actually playing, I'd be sh!t hot now.
As it stands I'm just luke warm :?
The rule that is more important that any is just play. I'm off!
You'll be back ;)
MDV, you were right, and I've not even played the guitar :(
I've been to the chippy and looked at Venus through my telescope, so it's not all bad....
But now I'm off for sure, to follow my own golden rule and just play :D
Hold on, quick look at OD pedals first......
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hard to argue with those, dave, except for the one about NOS valves (i don't know enough about them to agree or disagree), and speaker cabs (solid wood, e.g. pine, can sound good too, though i assume you just meant not to go for cr@ppy chipboard/MDF etc. in which case that's fair enough).
some things i think are important are
1) if it's for home use and it sounds a sensible volume in the shop, there's a good chance it'll be much louder in your (most likely) smaller room at home. :lol:
2) i'm honestly not sure about the buying in a shop versus buying online. I'm aware of all the "guitars can sound/play/feel different even of the same model", etc. etc., and i agree wholeheartedly, but the thing is, you can miss something when you're trying something in a shop (you can not notice a flaw, in other words), plus with buying online, you're covered by distance selling regulations, i.e. you have 7 days of trying it in the comfort of your own home, through your own gear, under no pressure, to make up your mind. you aren't covered by distance selling regulations if you buy in a shop.
Don't get me wrong, a lot of the time you can't be bothered to send the darn thing back, DS regulations or no, and i'd personally rather buy the one in the shop too, but it's worth bearing in mind. buying in the shop's not foolproof (or maybe i'm just an idiot... :lol: )...
I've replaed every single one of my cables with cleartone. They're such an improvment, I need to know that my entire signal chain has them in. I have something like 4 20ft, 3 or 4 10ft, 4 mic cables, 5 or 6 patch cables and 5 or 6 1m or 1.5m cables. And that lot still costs less than a third of the number in planet waves and hosas (that I used to use and now look on with disgust).
Its not that they sound better. Its that they dont have a sound - they let your gears full clarity come through. Its awesome. Perfect partner for BKs.
same here. :lol:
Are these cleartone cables really worth getting? All my cables are made with unbranded cable (as far as I can tell) with neutrik jacks on the ends. Is it going to be worth the switch? These have been great to me for a few years now..
yes. seriously. get one now.
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Pine, I agree, can sound good too. Best suited to combos in my experience. And I was talking about separate cabinets in my original post ;)
Re. online vs shop buying, I didn't mention this in my post as I've had good and bad experiences both ways. To me, I only really get to know something at home after I've bought it anyway so how I got hold of it doesn't really matter! :lol: Generally, I like to try before I buy though.
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^ yeah, that's pretty much like me too. i definitely prefer to try before buying, but if something is sufficiently cheaper online once i've done that, then i'll chance the online purchase (i'll also sometimes chance an online purchase if i've done all my research and have come to the conclusion that a certain model, which is impossible to try locally, is what i want). don't get me wrong- if a local shop gets close to the online price, i'll buy local, but if something is £500 online and £900 in a local shop... though to be honest the bigger problem is normally stuff I want not being available here. i'll go for something which is supposedly what i want, even if i can't try it, over something i can try but which i consider to be mediocre, every time (after being caught out by taking the safe option before and ending up having to buy a decimator anyway... :lol: )
touche about pine in the combos, i've only tried it in combos too. :lol:
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I would have three points of "wisdom".
They would be;
If your fingers don't sound good, spending a million pounds on gear will make fuck all difference.
Expense absolutely is not an automatic badge of quality.
Paying too much attention to the opinions of strangers on forums is more often than not immensely counter productive.
Dude, not that I care really... But editting to cheat the censor is really not cool. There's a reason that its there, should prolly pay some respect.
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*L*
What does *L* mean?
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Cool thread :)
Going to add my thoughts though :D
1 ) Great tone is all about the combination of guitar + effects + amp + speakers. Some elements just 'work' with others, and some just don't. Very few things work universally well with all other bits of gear. In the words of Paul Reed Smith - "everything affects everything else". and most importantly the person
2 ) Your amplifier is as important, if not more important, than the guitar you use. Play through as many different models as you can before choosing which one to buy. it may be the case for you but it depends on the person :) The Axefx for example can be used to devastating effect.
3 ) Anything expensive is nearly always worth the cost, unless it's specifically designed for collectors. In which case it isn't. This now applies to vintage gear, which should be left to the aforementioned collectors. Strongly disagree and it contradicts point 7 a bit.
4 ) Some bits of gear, especially guitars, just won't suit you no matter what you do to them. If it's not over 90% 'right' as standard, sell it and buy something else. You can't polish a turd. agree 100%
5 ) As tyres for your car are the link between you and the road, speakers are your tone's link to your ears. Like amplifiers, try as many different types as you can and buy the best you can afford. I remember when I was having my Martamp built and I suggested getting the more expensive celestions than he suggested and he said stick with the chinese ones
6 ) Old valves are not worth buying any more as they're either worn out, rejects or ridiculously expensive. Use new JJs, especially the Gold Pin versions, as a default option. Agreed!
7 ) ClearTone cables ( www.award-session.com/cleartone_cables.html ) are tonally transparent, high quality and incredibly well priced. Do not get sucked in by marketing. ooooh thanks, I'm using GeorgeLs atm and was going to upgrade to lyric HG's but I'll check these first. Any more info on them?
10 ) At the end of the day, you will always sound like you. Use this to your advantage and chose the gear that suits you, and not what suits someone else. Use your ears! Great advice :)
I would say... having my guitar set up properly and for the way I like it is more important to me having a good sound than a superior instrument and good left hand and right hand technique has far more to do with how we hear good tone than the gear.
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Cool thread :)
and good left hand and right hand technique has far more to do with how we hear good tone than the gear.
Once again, this is such bollocks.
If its not, then put your gear where your mouth is. Send me all your stuff and I'll send you a squire starter package.
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Cool thread :)
and good left hand and right hand technique has far more to do with how we hear good tone than the gear.
Once again, this is such bollocks.
If its not, then put your gear where your mouth is. Send me all your stuff and I'll send you a squire starter package.
Completely disagree. Whilst obviously different gear sounds different and you're not going to get a humbucker to sound like a single coil in a hurry, the same person playing totally different gear will always sound pretty similar tonally.
Certainly, when I was playing for a living, I did a huge number of gigs with borrowed gear and could always get extremely similar sounds after a couple songs settling in. I always found the same working in guitar shops and jamming with the other guys. You could lift pretty much any guitar in the shop and plug into any amp and get pretty similar sounds going. Not identicle, but much closer than accepted gear wisdom would have you believe.
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Cool thread :)
and good left hand and right hand technique has far more to do with how we hear good tone than the gear.
Once again, this is such bollocks.
If its not, then put your gear where your mouth is. Send me all your stuff and I'll send you a squire starter package.
Completely disagree. Whilst obviously different gear sounds different and you're not going to get a humbucker to sound like a single coil in a hurry, the same person playing totally different gear will always sound pretty similar tonally.
Certainly, when I was playing for a living, I did a huge number of gigs with borrowed gear and could always get extremely similar sounds after a couple songs settling in. I always found the same working in guitar shops and jamming with the other guys. You could lift pretty much any guitar in the shop and plug into any amp and get pretty similar sounds going. Not identicle, but much closer than accepted gear wisdom would have you believe.
Then the squire starter package offer stands. I dunno what you got, but I'll trade you that for it ;)
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Cool thread :)
and good left hand and right hand technique has far more to do with how we hear good tone than the gear.
If its not, then put your gear where your mouth is. Send me all your stuff and I'll send you a squire starter package.
Completely disagree. Whilst obviously different gear sounds different and you're not going to get a humbucker to sound like a single coil in a hurry, the same person playing totally different gear will always sound pretty similar tonally.
Certainly, when I was playing for a living, I did a huge number of gigs with borrowed gear and could always get extremely similar sounds after a couple songs settling in. I always found the same working in guitar shops and jamming with the other guys. You could lift pretty much any guitar in the shop and plug into any amp and get pretty similar sounds going. Not identicle, but much closer than accepted gear wisdom would have you believe.
Then the squire starter package offer stands. I dunno what you got, but I'll trade you that for it ;)
No. Because nobodies arguing that good gear doesn;t sound better than bad gear, just that your hands have mor to do with it than anything else.
Plus, playability is a completely different matter :)
And some guitars are prettier than Squier Strats, aside from anything else. Should be noted though, amongst dep gigs that have been last minute, I HAVE borrowed and gigged with the £99 Squier starter pack strats and a Marshall MG :lol:
Once again, this is such bollocks.
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Cool thread :)
and good left hand and right hand technique has far more to do with how we hear good tone than the gear.
No. Because nobodies arguing that good gear doesn;t sound better than bad gear, just that your hands have mor to do with it than anything else.
Plus, playability is a completely different matter :)
And some guitars are prettier than Squier Strats, aside from anything else. Should be noted though, amongst dep gigs that have been last minute, I HAVE borrowed and gigged with the £99 Squier starter pack strats and a Marshall MG :lol:
Once again, this is such bollocks.
If its not, then put your gear where your mouth is. Send me all your stuff and I'll send you a squire starter package.
Completely disagree. Whilst obviously different gear sounds different and you're not going to get a humbucker to sound like a single coil in a hurry, the same person playing totally different gear will always sound pretty similar tonally.
Certainly, when I was playing for a living, I did a huge number of gigs with borrowed gear and could always get extremely similar sounds after a couple songs settling in. I always found the same working in guitar shops and jamming with the other guys. You could lift pretty much any guitar in the shop and plug into any amp and get pretty similar sounds going. Not identicle, but much closer than accepted gear wisdom would have you believe.
Then the squire starter package offer stands. I dunno what you got, but I'll trade you that for it ;)
?
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Edited, I managed to write my reply in amongst the quotefest :lol:
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*reads number 7* do'h! just ordered an expensive-ish cable, didn't know these existed. Still it is a Panet Waves so not a false investment imo.
Also, cheap, obvious point, but: really get used to (love?) your guitar and find out what it can do. only after 2 years did I really feel I could wield my axe well enough to feel comfortable playing and feeling everything I wanted and getting the result. I hope my new guitar doesn't take quite that long....
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Still it is a Panet Waves so not a false investment imo.
NOOOOOOOOOOO
I blew a load on a batch of planet waves just before I got cleartones. I now have them around only to lend to people in need of a cable. The cleartones CRUSH the planetwaves. Their superiority is akin to that of the Jedi over the Ewoks.
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Still it is a Panet Waves so not a false investment imo.
NOOOOOOOOOOO
I blew a load on a batch of planet waves just before I got cleartones. I now have them around only to lend to people in need of a cable. The cleartones CRUSH the planetwaves. Their superiority is akin to that of the Jedi over the Ewoks.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, damn you Twinfan for not posting this yesterday! :lol:
Cheers MDV, will buy a new set of cables....(I'm one of those people who believe cables make a MASSIVE difference to tone quality/clarity)
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Just ordered a Cleartone 20ft, 10ft and patch cable, all with the silent option :D
Hi MDV, chill out I'm not $%&#king your wife :)
I think maybe your misunderstanding the use of the word tone, like nfe said, of-course a 'bucker wont sound like a SC and a highgain amp wont sound like a plexi.
I didn't say that gear doesn't have an impact on the 'quality of the sound'(aka tone). I said, technique has far more to do with how we hear good tone than the gear it's self.
If we could take a 59Paul and put it through a Dumble, then let Herman Lii play it and then Robben Ford what do you think would happen?
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If we could take a 59Paul and put it through a Dumble, then let Herman Lii play it and then Robben Ford what do you think would happen?
I dunno, but call me when Herman's finished so I can come and listen to Robben. I'll be in the car park or somewhere, out of earshot.
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Hey man, I'm chilled as an antarctic cucumber
See, now youre talking about the quality of the player. Thier ability to play the guitar. Li sucks. Ford rules. 'Tis a transparent rhetorical device mate, and I aint falling for it. A good player is indeed a good player on anything. Thats not the point. The point is tone, and that tone is is any majority in the player is a myth. Like I've said, get ford to play through a Herbert and see how his tone changes ;)
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sigh... I wasn't trying to get you to fall for anything, I was just trying to make a point.
You may not have read what I said about 'tone' as I edited it into my last reply a bit late but I think maybe we're talking about different things. Tone(players quality/technique) vs Tone(Highgain-lowgain etc).
Either way I'm not going to be pulled(anymore)into an argument about it :)
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I don't think anyone has said anything on the difference in tone from using different picks
from what I remember comparing a red jazz III XL to a 3mm big stubby months ago (and if my ears were not playing tricks on me)
the jazz III had more bite in the attack while the stubby had a tiny bit more bass while palm muting, the stubby also doesn't mask any accidental ringing strings while a jazz III will while sweeping so it made me practice my technique more
I'll compare them tomorrow and check (I bet they sound completely different to how I remember, I recently turned from a mid scooper to a mid cranker which might have some affect)
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3 ) Anything expensive is nearly always worth the cost, unless it's specifically designed for collectors. In which case it isn't. This now applies to vintage gear, which should be left to the aforementioned collectors. Strongly disagree and it contradicts point 7 a bit.
It doesn't contradict #7, as I say "nearly always" ;)
I realise after thinking about it a bit more that I should have said 'around 80% of the time' not 'nearly always'. There's more exceptions than I first thought....
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I don't think anyone has said anything on the difference in tone from using different picks
from what I remember comparing a red jazz III XL to a 3mm big stubby months ago (and if my ears were not playing tricks on me)
the jazz III had more bite in the attack while the stubby had a tiny bit more bass while palm muting, the stubby also doesn't mask any accidental ringing strings while a jazz III will while sweeping so it made me practice my technique more
I'll compare them tomorrow and check (I bet they sound completely different to how I remember, I recently turned from a mid scooper to a mid cranker which might have some affect)
Have you tried the Ultex Jazz 3 yet? Different tone again, shame they don't do an XL version
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Very interesting thread :D
A big plus from me on the difference that picks make - never really noticed before, but I've been doing some recording over the last few weeks and I've been switching picks (on the same guitar and amp settings) to get different tones for different overdubs.
I'm not sure on the "is tone-in-the-fingers true/false?" debate, but I can add to it slightly:
I use modellers now, not amps (so take this with a pinch of salt), but I find that with all amp model types and all of my guitars I tend to reach for the same basic "my-tone". And I usually reach it - humbuckers, single-coils, through Marshall/Fender/etc... and I always sound pretty much like me.
The differences are usually to do with how clean or not I want it, whether I'm playing rock n roll, or blues, or rock, or something else. Also, sometimes I want a distinctive "that's a strat!" (or whatever) sound - you kinda need to pick up the strat for that if you've got one... (however, I can make my MQ'd Explorer sound surprisingly close enough, or even my Mule'd Love Rock...)
Overall, in the past 12 months, "my tone" seems to be something that is a lot more "fixed" than I ever imagined before I started buying all these different guitars and pickups (and discovered amp modelling).
BUT - to possibly contradict everything I've just said: I still find if I play the Love Rock exclusively for a few days, it takes me several hours to get into a telecaster or strat (and vice versa) afterwards. I'm talking about the sounds I get out of the speakers, not the feel of the neck etc... Now, is that to do with the inherent "tone" of the beasts, or is it because I'm learning to deal with a more/less distorted sound?? Who knows? (Or cares :lol:)
Finally, another big plus to what someone else said earlier (38th I think) - when you think you've got your settings, roll everything back just a tad... usually sounds loads better! (applies to guitar controls, amp controls, fancy eq/effects in the mix, everything)
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*L*
What does *L* mean?
..er laugh
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*L*
What does *L* mean?
..er laugh
*L*
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1) Get used to and love your guitar. I bought my Gibson in a heartbeat after just picking it up because I'd never played one before. It is not the best playing or sounding guitar I've ever played but to me, it has character and I'm always suprised at how it feels when I pick it up and how it sounds when I get to crank my Marshall.
2) We're all members of various forums, I'm sure. Don't get caught up in forum euphoria over certain bits of gear. I've seen it happen on this forum (I KNOW we all love Bareknuckles, but this is for something else...). What I mean is, when one person gets ranting and raving over one piece of gear, a lot of people go out and buy it. I did it. I bought a HBE Big D, it sounds GOOD but when I was pissing about with my pedals at practice one night, it didnt sound THAT much better than boosting my amp with a Boss EQ.
3) You will never be happy 100% with everything in your rig. It's just fact. I'd prefer a different overdrive to my Big D (looking at Blackstar DistX, some of the tones I've heard from that thing are amazing).
4) Name your gear. All of it. It just makes it all more personal. So far I have named my gear...
Explorer (Black Beast of Aaaaaargh)
Red No-name strat (Hank)
Jackson Kelly (Kelly, duh)
Epi SG (Dazzler, named after the person who gave it to me)
JCM800 (Elvis)
Vox Wah (w**ker)
Boss Tuner (fixit)
MXR p90 (Wibble)
Boss Tremolo (Wobble)
5) Have fun. It's not the end of the world if you don't have the best gear or if your cables aren't GeorgeL or Cleartone. Go out and have fun. It's all just noise and I BET that once you get lost in your own little world, you won't care about how you sound as you'll have such a nice time playing. A friend of mine REFUSES to come down to Jam nights because he can only bring his guitar and will be playing through an amp he doesn't like (not because he has never played it, it is because it's a Fender and it doesn't have br00tal gain).
so go out, have fun and PLAY, PLAY, PLAY, PLAY PLAY!!!!!!
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*L*
What does *L* mean?
..er laugh
I suppose I was trying to understand why you did *L* rather than lol or LOL :roll:
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was a small laugh..not a large one
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4) Name your gear. All of it. It just makes it all more personal. So far I have named my gear...
Not sure....I think at the end of the day it's an instrument...which isn't to say I don't 'love' my guitars (and I agree with your 1) as you can see from my above post).
so go out, have fun and PLAY, PLAY, PLAY, PLAY PLAY!!!!!!
Completely agree! :D
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Firstly , thanks to Twinfan for reminding me to order those 'Cleartone ' cables . :) I have been playing into an ultra clean choice of amps through either the heavily coloured Monster 'Jazz' cable - or some unfeasably long Planet Waves I used to gig with years ago. It seems daft to have chosen the most 'open' amps and speakers without linking it properly.
Secondly I must admit to getting great results from my American N.O.S. valve stock. The Quad of 7581a in my Twin have given it an even bigger , glassier headroom & soundstage. Ditto for the tonic qualities of the pairs of Jan / Phillips 6L6WGB ( short bottle ) I have for my Laney LH50R-II. I am not saying that the new production stuff will not be great, just that for my needs - they have pleasing characteristics.
I agree that a cheap gutar can really surprise you - and is worth the pickup / nut upgrade. If my Gibsons benefitted, then not surprisingly my budget semi-acoustic did too. It was a great example of taking each guitar on individual merit and 'try before you buy' though. I tried quite a few 335 copies, before a local dealer brought this slightly soiled ( but set up ) Tanglewood round - and it just felt 'right' - and the acoustic tone was sweet. I did need a set of M.QS to make the amplified tone equally pleasing ( I remember Twinfan saying that Black Dogs would probabably worked nicely as well ).
Twinfan also alerted me to the joys / potential of ( relatively ) neutral voiced speakers - through his Celestion 'Hot 100s'. It was then I realised that as sweet as a 'saggy' Greenback sounds in a cranked 15 Watt Tweed - the bigger tonal fish where ( for me ) - to be found in an arena of 'reference' clarity drivers. This also helps one get the basic Guitar / pickup / plectrum / leads combo right. In that way it is now easier for me to replicate my prefered sounds through a larger variety of gear.
I therefore agree that your ( humble ) plectrum can make a lot of difference. I play predominantly lower volumes, and through my amp's clean channels - so a change of picks is like a drummer changing drum heads or sticks mid song.
The irony is that now ( under the topic of "you always sound like you " ) - whether I use a semi-acoustic, Les Paul or S.G. with M.Q.s, Stormy Mondays or Mules - I tend to E.Q a little until they all sound pretty much the same . I suppose this is due in part due to the minimalistic Larry Carlton / Joe Pass / Miles Davies influences, where one is right hand damping a tad during phrases, as one would use the pedals on a piano. I am NOT saying this would work for out and out Rock - or that it can be done on the ubiquitous 'Squier starter pack' - but I am saying it can be happily approximated on a well set up £170 guitar and a £100 practice amp as it can be on a more elaborate rig. I recently bought and watched the Larry Carlton 'Sapphire Blues Band ' DVD - and was intrigued as to how L.C. would sound on his Yamaha acoustic guitar . When he plugged it in - ( with sound hole blocked, pickup installed - and plugged into his Dumble ) - it sounded just like his 335 !
I would like to add the favourite Fender 'Rule of 6' - which I once read of , to get a great basic setting on any Fender voiced / 6L6 powered amp. The folklore is basically : Bass = 2 Mid = 3 = Treble = 6 . Originally invented to get a level sonic playing field in the U.S.A recording studios of yesteryear - where Fender Twin amps used to be the default.
Now where are those 'Cleartones ' Mr. Postman ? ... :)
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Whilst obviously different gear sounds different and you're not going to get a humbucker to sound like a single coil in a hurry, the same person playing totally different gear will always sound pretty similar tonally.
Don't agree with that. If I heard you playing a Blackmachine with Warpigs through a Diezel Herbert and then a Tele with Country Boy's through a Fender HR Deluxe I'm pretty sure the difference would be stark.
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Still it is a Panet Waves so not a false investment imo.
NOOOOOOOOOOO
I blew a load on a batch of planet waves just before I got cleartones. I now have them around only to lend to people in need of a cable. The cleartones CRUSH the planetwaves. Their superiority is akin to that of the Jedi over the Ewoks.
+1
the only reason i still have my old cables is that I've been too lazy to clear them away (seriously, they're still lying on the floor where i left them :lol: ), but mainly just in case i ever need a spare lead or something, it'll save me from having to immediately rush out to buy more, would work as a stopgap until my cleartones arrived.
Personally i think the "finger tone/gear tone" argument is a false dichotomy; at the end of the day if you're a killer player you probably don't need to play through a starter pack, and if you're not a very good player you should probably put your money towards lessons and practice a lot more. Bottom line is that if you take the same player, he/she will generally sound better through better gear, with the caveat that the better gear has to be better gear for the specific player in question (he/she has to like it and it has to suit his/her playing style). There's nothing more to it than that, if you ask me.
I make a distinction between "player tone" (how good a player is) and "gear tone" (how good the gear is). The quality of the final tone is a combination of both of those.
I always sound like me (unfortunately), but i sound a lot different if i'm playing a strat or tele compared to if i'm playing a gibson... or compared to if i'm playing a superstrat (in which case i struggle to keep the 80s under wraps :lol: ). i still sound like me, but my bluesier licks will come out more if i'm playing a strat... the shape of the neck, the guitar's tone, etc. will affect which licks i can play, and which i want to play... it's kind of strange.
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I haven't discovered the revolution that is Cleartone cables. And what's with all the options of cable? Is it just the ends of the cable (i.e. straight, corner, etc.) or is there something else?
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Well I have ordered a couple. I intend replacing all my cables with Cleartones but as i am watching the pennies, it'll take me a few more weeks.
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am thinkin of getting a few try them against my planet waves
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am thinkin of getting a few try them against my planet waves
let me know how that is - and how much of a noticable difference there is.
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No worries
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am thinkin of getting a few try them against my planet waves
let me know how that is - and how much of a noticable difference there is.
I have just been trying my Cleartone cable against the Planet Waves, and to be honest - I ended up thinking "these Cleartones are nice and sparkly" - but then putting them in the box and using my Planet Waves. The difference ( for my purposes ) is that the Cleartones sound brighter and more sparkly at the top end, but sacrifice the silky treble and lucious bass that my Planet Waves give me.
I can see that for Rock ( not Jazz / Jazz Blues ) - the Cleartones would be ace for cutting through the gain at high volumes - but at low volumes played sweet ' n' clean , the Cleartones sounded 'stiff' in the upper register - neutral in the mids - and a bit anemic in the bass. yes, the bass is detailed ( that preponderance of upper mids seeping down I guess ) - but it made my Alnico pickups sound a bit ceramic if you know what I mean.
Yes the Cleartones are nice sounding - and of course the build quality is excellent, but not the 3 dimensional soundstage wonder I had presumed. Perhaps there is a difference with the new batch ( Van damme cable ) - as opposed to the older ( Klotz cable ) batch ?
It will still be nice to have the Cleartone in stock for future experimentation / needs ( and I did get one of their speaker leads delivered at the same time ) - but it's Planet waves for 'sweet music' according to my ears. :)
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I'm a fan of planet waves for their durability
I'll watch this thread develop though as I will try some clear tones next month
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I'm a fan of planet waves for their durability
I'll watch this thread develop though as I will try some clear tones next month
Yes, it is still a great idea to buy a Cleartone cable - as they " do what it says on the tin". I have been swapping back and forth a lot during an extended jam / practice session, and to be fair to both Cleartone and Planet waves, here are my further observations :
The Cleartone cable is incredibly clear - and perhaps the perceived 'stiffness' and hard treble is me hearing the true single coil 'edge' of my Mississipi Queens for the first time. I certainly had to use the neck pickup and tone controls with the Cleartones - to round things out a bit. It may be a case of that old cinematic cliche " you want the truth ? you can't handle the truth ! " . The Cleartones certainly let you hear the vocal quality of adding subtle vibrato to the top strings, especially when applied during a string bend.
The Planet Waves certainly round things off a little bit in the upper registers, making the sound somehow more silky - but perhaps a tad 'blocky'. The strong point is where the bass frequencies fatten and blur a bit, making excursions onto the bass strings sound very warm and fat. In contrast The Cleartones evoke the Bass tone of something like a Fender precision - lean ( perhaps even skinny ) - but you can hear the grind, shimmer - and detail of the notes.
Of course ( whilst not used during this test ) - the Monster 'Jazz' cable is somewhere rounder, sweeter and more muted than the Planet Waves ( despite the Monster 'Jazz' claiming to be a fairly balanced cable in the E.Q).
It all does ( for me ) prove one thing beyond a doubt though, and that is that cables DO make a difference - and as Twinfan mentioned at the outset, it's about getting the right jigsaw pieces / components to make the sound you want. Everything in the signal chain chain counts.
I would be very interested to read what Cleartone / Planet Waves / other cable users feel that they gain or lose from cable to cable - especially around the valid reference point of Cleartones. If this unintentionally hi- jacks T.F's original thread - we can always lift the cable comparisons onto another ?
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cool comments! really good description. Given all that I think I'm perfectly happy to carry on with my Planet Waves for now...
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I haven't discovered the revolution that is Cleartone cables. And what's with all the options of cable? Is it just the ends of the cable (i.e. straight, corner, etc.) or is there something else?
you can choose the length you want too, and what type of connectors... normal neutrik or those silent ones. plus angled or straight jacks...
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I'm a fan of planet waves for their durability
I'll watch this thread develop though as I will try some clear tones next month
Yes, it is still a great idea to buy a Cleartone cable - as they " do what it says on the tin". I have been swapping back and forth a lot during an extended jam / practice session, and to be fair to both Cleartone and Planet waves, here are my further observations :
The Cleartone cable is incredibly clear - and perhaps the perceived 'stiffness' and hard treble is me hearing the true single coil 'edge' of my Mississipi Queens for the first time. I certainly had to use the neck pickup and tone controls with the Cleartones - to round things out a bit. It may be a case of that old cinematic cliche " you want the truth ? you can't handle the truth ! " . The Cleartones certainly let you hear the vocal quality of adding subtle vibrato to the top strings, especially when applied during a string bend.
The Planet Waves certainly round things off a little bit in the upper registers, making the sound somehow more silky - but perhaps a tad 'blocky'. The strong point is where the bass frequencies fatten and blur a bit, making excursions onto the bass strings sound very warm and fat. In contrast The Cleartones evoke the Bass tone of something like a Fender precision - lean ( perhaps even skinny ) - but you can hear the grind, shimmer - and detail of the notes.
Of course ( whilst not used during this test ) - the Monster 'Jazz' cable is somewhere rounder, sweeter and more muted than the Planet Waves ( despite the Monster 'Jazz' claiming to be a fairly balanced cable in the E.Q).
It all does ( for me ) prove one thing beyond a doubt though, and that is that cables DO make a difference - and as Twinfan mentioned at the outset, it's about getting the right jigsaw pieces / components to make the sound you want. Everything in the signal chain chain counts.
I would be very interested to read what Cleartone / Planet Waves / other cable users feel that they gain or lose from cable to cable - especially around the valid reference point of Cleartones. If this unintentionally hi- jacks T.F's original thread - we can always lift the cable comparisons onto another ?
Well I used planet waves for a couple of years before finding cleartones maybe 6 months ago. Sonically I mainly agree with you, but one mans this is anothers that - where you prefer the warmer lows of the PWs, I call that 'mud', what you call 'silk' I call 'mush' and I massively prefer the clarity, tightness, high end extension available (i.e. that of my gear, closer to how it really sounds, since cables can only remove sound, not add it, and cleartones remove less), and also the seperation and detail that they can convey. Or allow my gear to show. Whatever. They also allow siginificantly less fizz with high gain (I play metal, mostly).
Basically, the things you say you dont like about them are the things I like about them, and the things you like about PWs are the things I dont like about them. *shrug*
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Basically, the things you say you dont like about them are the things I like about them, and the things you like about PWs are the things I dont like about them. *shrug*
One play Metal another play Jazz, couldn't be different... :D
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Basically, the things you say you dont like about them are the things I like about them, and the things you like about PWs are the things I dont like about them. *shrug*
One play Metal another play Jazz, couldn't be different... :D
Jazz metal is alive and kicking, buddy, and has been for a while
But yeah, I know what you mean. Sonically chalk and cheese.
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Basically, the things you say you dont like about them are the things I like about them, and the things you like about PWs are the things I dont like about them. *shrug*
One play Metal another play Jazz, couldn't be different... :D
Jazz metal is alive and kicking, buddy, and has been for a while
But yeah, I know what you mean. Sonically chalk and cheese.
Nice to read your comparisons though MDV. :)
I agree the Cleartones are just that, and it shows that under certain circumstances - a bit of colouration may be either suitable or loathsome to the individual. The irony is ( tone wise ) - that most add the colouration at the speaker stage ( i.e. Greenbacks , V30s v.s Electrovoice / Emminence or Celestion Hot 100s e.t.c ).
I can imagine that a blend of cables in a rig might be interesting. For me ( more and more recently ) it's been one short cable straight into an amp - and tapewound bass strings. As Fernando noted, although Jazz Metal is indeed alive and well ( Shawn Baxter anyone ? ) - the tone I desire to present is that good old slightly muted and mellow one.
That is why I remain so interested in other folk's opinions, in that tone is so subjective - and there is no ultimate right or wrong, only fit for purpose at the time.
Cheers ! :)
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Well I used planet waves for a couple of years before finding cleartones maybe 6 months ago. Sonically I mainly agree with you, but one mans this is anothers that - where you prefer the warmer lows of the PWs, I call that 'mud', what you call 'silk' I call 'mush' and I massively prefer the clarity, tightness, high end extension available (i.e. that of my gear, closer to how it really sounds, since cables can only remove sound, not add it, and cleartones remove less), and also the seperation and detail that they can convey. Or allow my gear to show. Whatever. They also allow siginificantly less fizz with high gain (I play metal, mostly).
Basically, the things you say you dont like about them are the things I like about them, and the things you like about PWs are the things I dont like about them. *shrug*
same here. generally, i like warmer tones than bright, but (to me, personally), the planet waves cables were muddy rather than warm. way i see it, as well, it's a lot easier to remove high end/warm things up at either the amp or the guitar, than to add treble/brightness/whatever the opposite of "mud" is once it's been removed...
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After spending some considerable ( further ) time swaping between Cleartones, Monster Jazz and Planet Waves - I agree that it is best to stick with ( and work with the characteristics of ) the Cleartones.
The revelation was doing a quick jazzy ascending run - and the Cleartone cable was the only one that let me hear every note ( including the legato ones ) clearly pronounced. I experimented with subtle right hand damping and such - to put the 'soft nose' on notes when I wanted - and it worked really nicely.
Coupled with the fact that Cleartones are also a very affordable / slim / compact / flexible cable - and those nice folks at Cleartone even fitted a silent angle jack that matches my favourite Jazz guitar . :wink:
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OK, seeing as Cleartones are getting a universal thumbs up:
Are the "silent" jacks worth the extra money, are are they just something else to go wrong?
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no idea, i went with the normal ones. that was solely based on price, though. :lol:
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Interesting cable journey you've been one, FF. Thanks for sharing
Yes, philly. The silent jacks are more than worth it. I havent heard an annoying noise after unplugging or plugging in my guitar, no matter how loud whats its plugged into. All annoying noises are in between plugging and unplugging now.
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I use my tuner mute live when switching guitars, so I don't need silent jacks. I didn't think they were worth it, and something extra to go wrong!
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Yes, philly. The silent jacks are more than worth it. I havent heard an annoying noise after unplugging or plugging in my guitar, no matter how loud whats its plugged into. All annoying noises are in between plugging and unplugging now.
Cheers Mark. I'd better invest in some quick, before the recession puts them out of business.
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I use my tuner mute live when switching guitars, so I don't need silent jacks. I didn't think they were worth it, and something extra to go wrong!
We dont all have a tuner mute, and you dont have to do anything at all for the switch to work, its automatic. I've stopped even thinking about it, just plug and unplug in scilence.
Yer welcome phil.
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I got my order yesterday(20ft silent jack, 10ft silent jack and some patch cables), the service and delivery time is great and the price is just stupidly good.
I agree with MDV, the silent jacks are fantastic. :D
The difference between the Cleartone and my .155 GeorgeLs is pretty big.
The George L's have more high mids and perceived gain but the Cleartones have alot more body and smoothness on the top end.
The yellow tags saying the length are a good idea too.
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I use my tuner mute live when switching guitars, so I don't need silent jacks. I didn't think they were worth it, and something extra to go wrong!
We dont all have a tuner mute, and you dont have to do anything at all for the switch to work, its automatic. I've stopped even thinking about it, just plug and unplug in scilence.
Fair enough - I was just giving an alternative :)
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For the extra pennies, its worth it. Mine hasn't gone wrong yet.
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I use my tuner mute live when switching guitars, so I don't need silent jacks. I didn't think they were worth it, and something extra to go wrong!
We dont all have a tuner mute, and you dont have to do anything at all for the switch to work, its automatic. I've stopped even thinking about it, just plug and unplug in scilence.
Fair enough - I was just giving an alternative :)
I gets ya. If you have that facility with something else then I suppose its redundant, unless the you-dont-have-to-even-push-a-button factor comes into play. But save my decimator, which I dont always use anyway (and can also cut out cable noise and buzz on its highest settings!) I play straight in all the time, so I really like the silent jacks
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I'm a fan of planet waves for their durability
I'll watch this thread develop though as I will try some clear tones next month
Yes, it is still a great idea to buy a Cleartone cable - as they " do what it says on the tin". I have been swapping back and forth a lot during an extended jam / practice session, and to be fair to both Cleartone and Planet waves, here are my further observations :
The Cleartone cable is incredibly clear - and perhaps the perceived 'stiffness' and hard treble is me hearing the true single coil 'edge' of my Mississipi Queens for the first time. I certainly had to use the neck pickup and tone controls with the Cleartones - to round things out a bit. It may be a case of that old cinematic cliche " you want the truth ? you can't handle the truth ! " . The Cleartones certainly let you hear the vocal quality of adding subtle vibrato to the top strings, especially when applied during a string bend.
The Planet Waves certainly round things off a little bit in the upper registers, making the sound somehow more silky - but perhaps a tad 'blocky'. The strong point is where the bass frequencies fatten and blur a bit, making excursions onto the bass strings sound very warm and fat. In contrast The Cleartones evoke the Bass tone of something like a Fender precision - lean ( perhaps even skinny ) - but you can hear the grind, shimmer - and detail of the notes.
Of course ( whilst not used during this test ) - the Monster 'Jazz' cable is somewhere rounder, sweeter and more muted than the Planet Waves ( despite the Monster 'Jazz' claiming to be a fairly balanced cable in the E.Q).
It all does ( for me ) prove one thing beyond a doubt though, and that is that cables DO make a difference - and as Twinfan mentioned at the outset, it's about getting the right jigsaw pieces / components to make the sound you want. Everything in the signal chain chain counts.
I would be very interested to read what Cleartone / Planet Waves / other cable users feel that they gain or lose from cable to cable - especially around the valid reference point of Cleartones. If this unintentionally hi- jacks T.F's original thread - we can always lift the cable comparisons onto another ?
Well I used planet waves for a couple of years before finding cleartones maybe 6 months ago. Sonically I mainly agree with you, but one mans this is anothers that - where you prefer the warmer lows of the PWs, I call that 'mud', what you call 'silk' I call 'mush' and I massively prefer the clarity, tightness, high end extension available (i.e. that of my gear, closer to how it really sounds, since cables can only remove sound, not add it, and cleartones remove less), and also the seperation and detail that they can convey. Or allow my gear to show. Whatever. They also allow siginificantly less fizz with high gain (I play metal, mostly).
I'm interested to read this stuff, especially from people who play similar types of music to me (though, I suspect, I sit uite a bit further into the extreme side of things).
I use PW relatively happily, but I play loads of complex chords under hi gain and am always looking for more clarity. S I think I'll get a ew cleartones and see how I get on :)
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I ordered some cleartones on Wednesday night.They arrived today-so very quick service.They look very well made though as I write, I haven't tried them. Gigging tomorrow night and will try them out then.
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OK, seeing as Cleartones are getting a universal thumbs up:
Are the "silent" jacks worth the extra money, are are they just something else to go wrong?
They look solid Philly. The expected quality of the Neutrik name has extended into the science of the noise prevention mechanism. There is a really solid ( but smoothly retractable ) metal collar with magnetic properties at the top of the jack plug shaft; - and when you plug it in, the 3mm collar smoothly pushes back into the body of the jack - and releases a reed switch. The mechanical actuator therefore being seperate from the internal resistor / reed switch. I am certainly a convert to this option - as I got a bit sick of the speaker / ear jolting noise I used to get when un-plugging / switching guitars without first walking back to the amp . :)
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I'm a fan of planet waves for their durability
I'll watch this thread develop though as I will try some clear tones next month
Yes, it is still a great idea to buy a Cleartone cable - as they " do what it says on the tin". I have been swapping back and forth a lot during an extended jam / practice session, and to be fair to both Cleartone and Planet waves, here are my further observations :
The Cleartone cable is incredibly clear - and perhaps the perceived 'stiffness' and hard treble is me hearing the true single coil 'edge' of my Mississipi Queens for the first time. I certainly had to use the neck pickup and tone controls with the Cleartones - to round things out a bit. It may be a case of that old cinematic cliche " you want the truth ? you can't handle the truth ! " . The Cleartones certainly let you hear the vocal quality of adding subtle vibrato to the top strings, especially when applied during a string bend.
The Planet Waves certainly round things off a little bit in the upper registers, making the sound somehow more silky - but perhaps a tad 'blocky'. The strong point is where the bass frequencies fatten and blur a bit, making excursions onto the bass strings sound very warm and fat. In contrast The Cleartones evoke the Bass tone of something like a Fender precision - lean ( perhaps even skinny ) - but you can hear the grind, shimmer - and detail of the notes.
Of course ( whilst not used during this test ) - the Monster 'Jazz' cable is somewhere rounder, sweeter and more muted than the Planet Waves ( despite the Monster 'Jazz' claiming to be a fairly balanced cable in the E.Q).
It all does ( for me ) prove one thing beyond a doubt though, and that is that cables DO make a difference - and as Twinfan mentioned at the outset, it's about getting the right jigsaw pieces / components to make the sound you want. Everything in the signal chain chain counts.
I would be very interested to read what Cleartone / Planet Waves / other cable users feel that they gain or lose from cable to cable - especially around the valid reference point of Cleartones. If this unintentionally hi- jacks T.F's original thread - we can always lift the cable comparisons onto another ?
Well I used planet waves for a couple of years before finding cleartones maybe 6 months ago. Sonically I mainly agree with you, but one mans this is anothers that - where you prefer the warmer lows of the PWs, I call that 'mud', what you call 'silk' I call 'mush' and I massively prefer the clarity, tightness, high end extension available (i.e. that of my gear, closer to how it really sounds, since cables can only remove sound, not add it, and cleartones remove less), and also the seperation and detail that they can convey. Or allow my gear to show. Whatever. They also allow siginificantly less fizz with high gain (I play metal, mostly).
I'm interested to read this stuff, especially from people who play similar types of music to me (though, I suspect, I sit uite a bit further into the extreme side of things).
I use PW relatively happily, but I play loads of complex chords under hi gain and am always looking for more clarity. S I think I'll get a ew cleartones and see how I get on :)
Thats what you suspect, huh ;) My poewrball is currently set to 'Origin, Antithesis' :twisted: Rest assured, the above opinions are from a love of pretty extreme metal, you'd have to be into some severe brutality for it not to be applicable experience. We're arent talking metallica here (though I do love them). Eg - http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=13664.0
I too play weird chords under high gain, and the cleatones live up to their name :D
Disclaimer - this isnt an 'I'm more metal than you' post. Just to explain that it I do indeed use them for the extreme, so the analysis (if not tastes) should apply.
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Oh I didn't mean it to sound patronising or owt, I hope it didn't, it's just, well, I love Origin and that kind of blugeoning music, but it's not what I think of as extreme. I would think more really abrassive music rather than heavy, you're more aggressive grind and BM and the like.
But ANYWAY, yes, I'm going to get me some Cleartones and see how I go - aside from anything else, whilst I've never had a problem, I know A LOT of stories about the jack mechanism on the PW cables jamming whilst inside guitars and ripping the socket out. Booooooo.
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Oh I didn't mean it to sound patronising or owt, I hope it didn't, it's just, well, I love Origin and that kind of blugeoning music, but it's not what I think of as extreme. I would think more really abrassive music rather than heavy, you're more aggressive grind and BM and the like.
But ANYWAY, yes, I'm going to get me some Cleartones and see how I go - aside from anything else, whilst I've never had a problem, I know A LOT of stories about the jack mechanism on the PW cables jamming whilst inside guitars and ripping the socket out. Booooooo.
Ah! Well, you could be right then. If thats what you call extreme, I dont really go in for that kind of extreme. I'm a tech death metal, thrash and post metal guy at heart. I appreciate HiFi production, and dislike LoFi sounds. I dont like black metal, I like some grind, but not much. We may well have quite different tonal aims. I dunno.
Good luck with the cleartones, tell us what you think when you get them
Out of curiosity, what did you think of the track? Its not finished by any stretch, but I'm interested in your opinion.
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Slightly amusing anecdote regarding ClearTones from me:
I'd heard people on here talking about them and saying they were really good, but I never really trusted the name- it sounds like something of QVC ("introducing the MegaClean SuperMop!" never sounds that great really :)), so i never even checked the website out, i just carried on using my VanDamme cable with Neutrik ends, and being very happy with the results- i'll never use another cable again, VanDamme is amazing stuff.
Anyway, because of this thread, I decided to the check the ClearTone site out, to see what the fuss was about.... imagine my surprise when i see "We use only high quality European made Van damme cable and NEUTRIK connectors" on the page! So even though i haven't even tried the cables yet (will be ordering some very soon though :)), I can also put my hearty self on the list of BareKnuckle endorsees :)
Sorry for the slight side-track, was a good list TF, although I have to disagree with the point about old valves and JJ's, I haven't been impressed with their preamp valves when i've tried some. Svetlana EL34s rock my power amp world though :)
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^ haha
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Out of curiosity, what did you think of the track? Its not finished by any stretch, but I'm interested in your opinion.
I quite like it - good demo for the painkiller certainly! - though I think some of the riffs push their luck in length, and the desecending run motif maybe appears too often on quite s hort time but varying drums and vocals would probably elieviante that straight of the bat.
I'd really like to hear it as a finished tune :)
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Cheers
Its being re-worked, but I dont have many more ideas for it at the moment, I'm working onother tracks.
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Yep, an old thread resurrection! :lol:
I was thinking about this thread this morning and wondering a) what I wrote, and b) would I think differently now it's 2.5 years on.
Do you know what? I still stand by the 10 points in my original thread. I would probably only add that stability of gear, and using what you have more effectively, can be a massive source of tonal enhancement. If you're not quite getting the tone you want, twiddle some knobs on the amp and/or guitar and adjust some pedal settings. Don't automatically sell something and buy a replacement!
I'm currently loving my tone more than ever, and my live rigs haven't changed in over 12 months:
YC/DC?
PRGuitars SGR with DiMarzio PAFs
JTM45/100 clone
Matamp 4x12 with Celestion Golds and G12H Heritage speakers
Sennheiser wireless
Jump The Shark
PRS Modern Eagle
Bogner XTC Classic
Matamp 2x12 with Celestion Golds
Wah / Chorus / Phaser / EQ / Delay / Reverb pedals
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Are you still using cleartone? I wonder if the forum hysteria has died down a little since 2009...
My tuppence: Thank god I'm slightly deaf because I can't hear the difference between picks or cables.
But I will say I've had a VDC cable with neutrik jacks for about 4 years now and used it almost every day and it's never broken, outlasting a dozen cables in the process (sadly at any given point I'm too poor to get a good quality new one).
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I think I still have largely the same gear as I did when this thread was made as well, with the exception of my SG!
One of my leads died recently so I'm tempted to try one of those Cleartones now if they're still going strong?
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I'm still using all the Cleartone cables I've had for years - no problems whatsoever. The guy who runs the company was a pain in the backside last time I ordered something, but the product is good at a decent price.
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I've had cleartone cables for years too and have only ever had 2 problems with them, and they were both the same problem from the same batch!
I ordered a few cables with those Neutrik Silent jacks and the 1st few batches of them weren't overly great and broke down. Cleartone took them back, changed the jacks and returned them. Been fine ever since :D
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Rob at
http://www.kablonline.com/index.html
is well worth a visit, quality equipment resonably priced and a great guy to deal with
well recommended
David 8)
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2.5 years already.
What have I been doing with my life!
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I'm currently loving my tone more than ever, and my live rigs haven't changed in over 12 months:
YC/DC?
PRGuitars SGR with DiMarzio PAFs
JTM45/100 clone
Matamp 4x12 with Celestion Golds and G12H Heritage speakers
Sennheiser wireless
Jump The Shark
PRS Modern Eagle
Bogner XTC Classic
Matamp 2x12 with Celestion Golds
Wah / Chorus / Phaser / EQ / Delay / Reverb pedals
You haven't gone hardcore have you Dave?? . :D :D http://www.myspace.com/jumpthesharkfl (http://www.myspace.com/jumpthesharkfl)
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I'm currently loving my tone more than ever, and my live rigs haven't changed in over 12 months:
YC/DC?
PRGuitars SGR with DiMarzio PAFs
JTM45/100 clone
Matamp 4x12 with Celestion Golds and G12H Heritage speakers
Sennheiser wireless
Jump The Shark
PRS Modern Eagle
Bogner XTC Classic
Matamp 2x12 with Celestion Golds
Wah / Chorus / Phaser / EQ / Delay / Reverb pedals
You haven't gone hardcore have you Dave?? . :D :D http://www.myspace.com/jumpthesharkfl (http://www.myspace.com/jumpthesharkfl)
urgh, like a poor mans Paint It Black.
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Nah, not me dudes :)
This is me:
Wanted Dead or Alive: www.youtube.com/watch?v=61iUOwNwD44
The Chain: www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA7cft7c0sA
Cochise: www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGyKbNXEgj0
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The Chain: www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA7cft7c0sA
Great stuff!
Remind me not to pick an argument with you because you look scarily tall.
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Ha ha! It'sjust because our singer is very short (5'2"). I'm 6ft.
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I'm still using all the Cleartone cables I've had for years - no problems whatsoever. The guy who runs the company was a pain in the backside last time I ordered something, but the product is good at a decent price.
exactly. the price is right, and they make them well. i may place another order soon actually.
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I agree with most of the initial points (even if they were made a LONG time ago ;)
Disagree slightly with the JJs, I don't like them in general. My rule for tubes would be shoot a mail to Dougstubes and follow his recommendation. Usually he is spot on as long as he knows what you have and what you want.
For cables, I haven't tried the cleartone, but I can throw in two more good value choices:
-Mogami 2524 and make your own with Neutrik jacks - great great cable and used by many pros, and it's relatively cheap
-Sommer cable (Thomann) -> great quality though abit sturdy at times.
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Good read, I would add another point:
- Be patient about gear. Not everything is instant love. Sometimes it takes a bit of time for gear to grow on you, or to adjust the setup around it.
For cables, I haven't tried the cleartone, but I can throw in two more good value choices:
-Mogami 2524 and make your own with Neutrik jacks - great great cable and used by many pros, and it's relatively cheap
-Sommer cable (Thomann) -> great quality though abit sturdy at times.
I too am a Sommer cable convert. I think the reason they are cheaper is because Sommer, as a company, is not really geared towards guitar players; they're "just" a big cable manufacturer.
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Cool, I reckon I'll order myself a Cleartone then :)
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One thing I would say about planet waves cables - but I have owned 3 in the past 7 years and they have all died on me. These are the only cables to do this - on the other hand I have Whirlwind Leaders from the 80s that still work and even crummy Fender Vintage Voltage cables (which look nice) don't just die like Planet Waves do.