Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Tonewolf on October 05, 2005, 07:38:54 PM
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I'm looking for a very dynamic set of pickups that have that vintage vibe and can growl when needed. They have to sound great both pristine clean and with bluesy overdrive from the amp.
Please help me decide if this set is for me.
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Welcome to the forum. I have Apaches fitted to my 1970's Strat. They replaced EMG's which in turn replaced the stock pups several years ago. They are, to me, classic Strat- they are wonderful clean and can bite if required.They are modelled on 1950's pups with slightly more on the bridge- better balance than standard. I'd got sick of the EMG's they had no character. I sought advice and Apaches were suggested. They have a great response- I can't recommend them highly enough. I've used the guitar alongside my other standard Strat with identical amp settings and it is then that the responsiveness of the Apaches makes itself apparent.Others will chip in I am sure-there are some clips in the players section too and I hope to post something myself soon.
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Well can the give me a close Gilmour tone like in "Shine on you crazy Diamond" or "Comfortably Numb" Solo 1 and 2
Bad sounding pickups :shock: ME
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This is the set for you :D
I have them on my 57 Strat and they are perfect for what I want (classic rock and blues). The Irish Tours drive a lot more, which doesn't give quite the vintage tone. I haven't heard Mother's Milk so I can't comment on them.
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Like Phil says ( and he knows his onions does Phil) you will not regret getting them. From the sound of things they match exactly what you want. I did too, I wanted to get back to a good vintage tone and I got it. As soon as I can I will get my other Strat fitted with them though it is in the queue behind my Tele.
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I am purchasing a 2002 American Stratocaster Deluxe HSS without the electronics or guard. I'll have it by October 15th. It has a rosewood board and a clearcoat ASH body. I heard it played when it had the Vintage Noisless Pickups installed and it has lots of snap and pop to it. I plan on installing a custom birdseye maple pickguard on it. I'll be using candy apple red wood tint on the guard as a finish.
I'm going to use the switch from a Deluxe Players Strat as an "add bridge" option to position 1 and 2 giving me all the "S1" options. Yes, I could use a push-pull switch for this but I don't like the feel of the cheap potentiometers used in those assemblies.
I'll post pictures and sound bytes when it's finished.
Tim I'll let you know when I have the funds together to purchase the set.
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When you're ready!
I'd suggest either Apache of Mother's Milk..............the Apaches are warmer whereas the Mother's Milk have more aggression without losing the vintage vibe.
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For modern Floyd tones, you might want to consider a Trilogy set. For the kind of sound Dave got at the Strat 50th concert, I'd go for the Apaches.
OT - didn't he use a custom made 24 fret guitar on Shine On - not a strat?? :?:
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I'm looking for the tones from "Shine on you crazy Diamond" and the second solo from "Comfortably Numb"
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If you're looking for the tone on the original albums, go for the apaches, if you like the tones of the live versions on Pulse, go for the Trilogies! :)
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I like both versions - now what?
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What I'm trying to get over is the originals had a more vintage tone, Dave used EMGs on the Division Bell tour. So you're hearing old passives, and modern actives. The Apaches are the most versatile, they sound really clean and drive well. The trilogies have a more modern sound and are higher output, getting towards a more active modern tone imho. If you want your strat to sound pure classic strat, then buy the Apaches. Does that help?
Also, don't forget all those effects..... :lol:
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Yes, that helps - I just have to listen to Floyd all day and decide. I'm really liking the sample of Mark Knopfler "Down by the Waterline" for the Apache Set. I should look for some Trilogy and Mothers Milk Samples and really listen through a quality speaker set.
I suppose I could always add mids to an Apache set by using a Pedal of my making using EMG Active circuits used in their DG20
that could be switched on to "edit" to a more modern tone and off for pure vintage.
Do you think that would work?
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I don't know about your idea- all I'd say is that if youget the basics right, i.e. a decent Strat with gereat pickups, you stand every chance of getting what you want in terms of tone. I was playing last night in a small club and I have my BKP Strat and my stock Strat. I broke a string on the former and switched to the latter. My stock Strat is great but the BKP one just has more dynamics- it gives you great cleans and you have a great basis for higher gain tones. Yes it is vintage style Strat but it still provides a good kick. I honestly don't think you'll be disappointed but in the slim chance that you are, Tim has a great return policy and you'll find it mentioned several times in the forum.
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Who has the RWRP middle and if not what does that sound like?
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I've gone stock on the Apaches after playing Tim's relic. It just sounds more together in positions 2 and 4, none of that wierd phase tone going on, more powerful bass, just more stratty, like you've heard on records and wondered why doesn't my strat do that??? Highly recommended, downside, it's not hum cancelling!
I'm still thinking that the Apaches will be best, played mine earlier and there's not much they can't do to be honest. I'll try and post some Floydy clips sometime soon..... :)
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Can you get that cool hollow 2/4 tone with the non RW/RP set - I don't care about hum canceling. It stops if you turn down the volume when not playing.
When playing I don't hear it anyway.
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Oh yeah - it's just punchier than what you get in a rw/rp. If you like pos 2/4, you'll love the sound of them in a stock set! In fact, all the positions sound punchier, something to do with the magnets all pointing the same direction and the magnetic field the strings are in - at least that's what Tim told me.....
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My Apache set is all standard too. I figured that I like the sound of the stock pickups on my 60 strat, so I would go with them this time. I like the sound too. It is a bit more open I think in the 2 & 4 positions. A bit more Richard Thompson/Mark Knopfler.
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Stock they will be then - Thanks!
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Remember, the main guitar that Dave Gilmour has played those songs on all throughout the mid 80's to the present is a Fender Candy apple red 1957 Strat Reissue with 3 EMG SA's and 2 EQ's, an SPC mid boost and a bass/treble expander.
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Tonewolf, you get more of the hollow funky sound with a RW/RP, !
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Phil King!
All Knopfler's Strats used live from 1980 have been RW/RP, apart from a SD set which were replaced in 84/85 for a SD RP/PW set.
The first album was played mostly on a Strat copy, with a butchered Fender neck.
The rosewood fingerboard had been removed and replaced with a maple fingerboard but milled onto the neck so flat as to make the guitar virtually unplayable.
The neck pickup was a Dimarzio, as to what the other two pickups were, no one knows, not even the guy who used to do all of the work on Mark's guitars.
So that famous sound isn't even a Fender, its a Jap copy.
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I guess I didn't say that I was meaning early Dire Straits. When I saw them in early 1978 he was using the original strat (with masking tape for the volume control). I thought that it was a rosewood original modified by Sam Lee, not a Japanese one?
Anyway, I find that the RW/RP doesn't give as nice a sound in the 2/4 positions, possibly due to it being humbucking. I'm guessing that you have the RW/RP in your Apaches, but have you tried Bare Knuckles with a non-RW/RP middle pickup? I have non RW/RP in my Apaches, but RW/RP with my Trilogy and Irish Tours, and was basing my observation on that.
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Does anyone have both RW/RP and Standard? I think I need some samples here to make a proper decision.
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Hi Phil!
I have got the non-RW/RP because I wanted the pickups to be as much like the original 61 as possible because they were/are for my MK sig which is based on Marks Fender 1961 Strat.
Later as you know he used other guitars with RW/RP.
What I mean is that the first album was played mainly with the copy, it was possibly a fernandez body.
I find that the hollow funky tone in the combo positions is enhanced, more out of phase sounding.
Tim told me that its a more funky Nile Rodgers sound I beleive, and certain songs like "In the Gallery" have that sound.
All the best Phil, Stef.
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I'll be interested in your thoughts Stef- I have a second Strat to "BK". Maybe a non RW/RP will add variety- my BK'd Strat , incidentally, has a push/pull pot to bring in bridge and neck. Quite usable. The three together doesn't quite work for me though.
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What I mean is that the first album was played mainly with the copy, it was possibly a fernandez body
Hi Stef,
I almost sold Mark a Fernades 'Rivival' strat in 82 or 83. It was when Jack Sonni was still working at Rudy's. I was going to trade it in for a Les Paul (I had managed to pick up my original 60 strat and so I thought I would trade the copy). Jack told me he thought Mark might want it. In the end it didn't work out because Rudy got involved. So I still have it! It is a 57 sunburst and is a great copy but I find the neck a bit too thin.
I can see you are a big Dire Straits fan from your web site! Excellent playing on the covers there. I can see how you like the RW/RP sound for Dire Straits, but if you get chance, try Tim's Apache set just to hear the difference.
Cheers
Phil
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I still think I want to hear the difference if at all possible - even if they are not Apache pickups as long as I can get the idea.
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I still think I want to hear the difference if at all possible - even if they are not Apache pickups as long as I can get the idea.
Hayden (HJM), posted clips of Apache vs Mothers Milk vs Irish Tours in the players room. His Apache are non-RW/RP. I think his others are RW/RP. I am sure he will let you know.