Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: Madiac on January 15, 2009, 06:54:25 PM
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Hey, im soon (hopefully soon) getting my bareknuckle pickups, MQ (one pig90, one normal mq) with three conductor wiring for coil-tap and im switching from a 490/498 gibson pickup set on my Gibson SG GT that already has push/pulls with splitcoiled buckers. Now, the only thing i know is what knob does what and for what pickup, but have no idea about anything else. Is a cheap 30W soldering iron good enough? What soldering wire should i use? What do i do step by step? I checked gibsons own guide, but it was way to confusing. Anyone got some links? I can upload pictures aswell i guess:) Maybe i should just bring it in for 70 bucks and get them switched by a pro? But somehow i feel mistrust and will never know the jobs is well done anyhow if i dont do it myself...
Is it basically, remove the old pickups, check the wires that come from the pickups and desolder them from the pots, then put in the new pups, check the wiring diagram on the new ones and solder them on the pots as instructed? Or am i just over-estimating the simplicity?
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Hi Madiac, :)
Yes, the 30 watt iron is ideal. 25watts can go a bit cool when re-soldering the earth wires back onto the body of the pots ( if required ) - and therefore make slightly dry / crystaline joints. 70 watts is too much. I have always used a $ 15 , 30 watt iron. Remember to heat the joint and then apply the solder to the parts, not apply solder to the iron and drop it onto the joint e.t.c. As soon as the solder is fluid enough, remove the iron, but keep the joint still - so it does not move and go crystaline in appearance. If it does, just carefully start again.
As for solder, just buy any brand of the general purpose 'Multi-core' stuff - where the flux runs through the solder itself. It is available in small size packs.
A bit of fine emery cloth to slightly rough up the back of the pots ( if ever installing new pots ) - helps the solder grab quick.
In your case - of swapping ' like for like' - you have already summed it up nicely - and are not underestimating the simplicity. Just lift off the 'old' connections one at a time - and replace them with the B.K.P wire. Bear in mind the B.K.P wire colour codes may be slightly different from your existing pickups - but easy to follow anyway.
You will be really satisfied when you have done it yourself ! :)
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Yeah, i like learning stuff myself. I feel prouder of myself the more i learn instead of needing other peoples help (although theres a limit to how far i would go to do more difficult repairs), besides, 80 bucks is gonna add up if i get more guitars;) Thanks for the advice, i already checked some videos. Kinda funny, because at school we always applied solder to the iron and then put it on the joint haha, well, it worked, kinda... ;) Today i bought Rosing core solder, desoldering braid to suck up the old solder if needed, + a cable stripper, all for 20 bucks, and i borrowed a temperature controlled 50W soldering iron. Someone at the gibson forum recommended that i use it and set it at 400 Celsius. Thanks again! Im gonna remove the old pickups tomorrow, because my bare knuckles should arrive during the week, i hope!:)
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You might want to wait on removing the old pickups until you're ready to install the new ones. I'd do one pickup at a time so you know where the wires came from. You could even draw a wiring diagram of what's in there now just in case and use this (http://www.guitarelectronics.com/category/wiringresources.11pickupcolorcodes/) to figure out which Gibson wires correspond to the BKP wires. It is a relatively simple job but for your first time you want to be prepared right? :)
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Yeah i know, but i feel more at ease removing the pups first, but i thought of taking pictures with my camera. Hows that sound? Also, i never understood the coil-split/tap thing. My guitar already has coil-split, but im changing to MQs with coil-tap, and i dont know where these wires should go since i dont find em in diagrams, What color code do they have? Also, the diagram you get with the BKPs, do they explain where each wires goes?
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Yeah, i like learning stuff myself. I feel prouder of myself the more i learn instead of needing other peoples help (although theres a limit to how far i would go to do more difficult repairs), besides, 80 bucks is gonna add up if i get more guitars;) Thanks for the advice, i already checked some videos. Kinda funny, because at school we always applied solder to the iron and then put it on the joint haha, well, it worked, kinda... ;) Today i bought Rosing core solder, desoldering braid to suck up the old solder if needed, + a cable stripper, all for 20 bucks, and i borrowed a temperature controlled 50W soldering iron. Someone at the gibson forum recommended that i use it and set it at 400 Celsius. Thanks again! Im gonna remove the old pickups tomorrow, because my bare knuckles should arrive during the week, i hope!:)
Good score !
The de-solder braid is great, and I should have mentioned it - as I always have some on hand. Cleaning away the solder from a bad, or previously soldered pot / switch tag really ensures the pickup wires, capacitor wires etc. get to sit right inside the tag hole - and are therefore naturally held in place whilst you gently heat the area and then touch the solder on it to melt in and around it really neatly.
* EDIT * The colour codes and wiring diagram are in the B.K.P. box , on the warranty / serial number card insert. :)
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Nice, i guess ill start desoldering them this evening and take pictures. Im still unsure how the coil-tap are soldered versus the coil-split, but i guess if i get lost i can just post pictures and ask for help here!:) Thanks!
EDIT: Actually, might be a bad idea to desolder em before i get the BKPs, is there a risk for neck warp/other neck problems if i leave it without strings a few days ?
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Nice, i guess ill start desoldering them this evening and take pictures. Im still unsure how the coil-tap are soldered versus the coil-split, but i guess if i get lost i can just post pictures and ask for help here!:) Thanks!
I am assuming that the wiring 'rules' are the same for coil 'tap' and coil 'split' - one term refering to running a seperate pair of wires off each individual coil in a humbuker - and the other denoting the three wires coming of a 'tapped' single coil such as the Mississippi queens' e.t.c. When there are 4 wires coming out of a humbucker, the white and green come joined and insulated by B.K.P. anyway - so both permutations pretty much end up looking the same regarding fitting. The diagram provided in each box shows the 'plan' really well - and of course , ( as you noted ) - we are all here to help. :)
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Got the pups today, and everything is set-up, im just waiting for the soldering iron to heat up;) I think i have understood the wiring after thinking a while:) Wish me luck
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Got the pups today, and everything is set-up, im just waiting for the soldering iron to heat up;) I think i have understood the wiring after thinking a while:) Wish me luck
" Good luck " ...
I look forward to hearing of your success very shortly. :)
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Ok, holy shite, this was messy. Think i melted cable covers everywhere and burnt some shite, even messed up some of the paintjob inside. cr@p, but well, the good thing SO FAR, is that both are in, soldered, and the poles react when i tap something on them... so, im putting strings after dinner, BUT, im unsure if i put my MQs the right way around. The neck one has the cable coming from the upper left corner, as this was how my gibson was put in, but this does make the cable run under the pickup and into the hole. my bridges cable run on the right side closest to the hole (unlike my gibsons bridge). So if you had x-ray vision and looked at it from behind while the guitar was standing up you would read the logo correctly. Did i do this wrong?
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The logo isn't always correct. The neck pup wire should be closest to the neck and the bridge pup wire should be closest to the bridge. At least for humbuckers, I've never dealt with an MQ.
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Well, thats how i did it, and good news, theyr frigging working:)
They respond to all the knobs (sadly like my gibsons though, the volume is kinda on or off, not much of a 0-10 scale.), however im not blaming BKP for that:) I only put on one string and it sounds right. Gotta put on all to get a good feel for the real sound and adjust pup height etc! Thanks!
EDIT: Some bad news i think, the coil-tap doesnt seem to be working correctly or maybe it should, the volume drops ALOT on the coil-tap, so much that its unusable, and i cant get distorted tones. What did i do wrong, any ideas? I put the white cable to where my coil-split went on my hums.
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Some bad news i think, the coil-tap doesnt seem to be working correctly or maybe it should, the volume drops ALOT on the coil-tap, so much that its unusable, and i cant get distorted tones. What did i do wrong, any ideas? I put the white cable to where my coil-split went on my hums.
It sounds like you have the tap the wrong way round, and you are taking only the tapped portion instead of dropping that. I think that the old switch probably shorted the coil to ground. For coil tap you need to wire like this:
right lug 1 Red from P/U left lug 1 nothing
right lug 2 Wire to volume left lug 2 nothing
right lug 3 white from P/U left lug 3 nothing
Hopr this helps
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Geez, i never connected anything to the lug, the lug isnt grounded either like it shows on the diagram. I just put it exactly like it was with my gibson humbuckers, and i guess im totally lost now. I ended for the evening, but tried some sutpid things first, that didnt work.. I had a compliments paper from tim where it said Red - Tap, White -Hot Bare+Back ground (atleast i got that right i think hahaha! Everything feels so messy. So can anyone help togehter with a picture? I never changed anything of the existing wire, just took of the old pickup wires, added the new. cr@p!
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I was meaning the lugs on the switch. You need to switch between the hot and the tap before taking it to the volume control.
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Geez, i have no idea what you mean, feel like a retard almost haha, especially after making such a mess in the wire cavity, cr@p. Ok, lets do it like this, the black+bare are grounded on the volume pots, what do i do with the white and red now. Im really sorry, im just so confused!
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To get it working without the tap (so you can check it out), you can connect the white wire to the volume pot where the other pickup was connected. I am assuming the coil tap for the old pickups used either a push-pull pot or a switch. Either way there are probably 6 tags on the switch, in 2 rows of 3. If you take one side, either - it doesn't matter, and connect a wire from the volume pot where the pickup connected to the middle tag, and then connect the red and white wires to the other 2 tags, you will have the coil tap working. If it is a push/pull switch they might be the wrong way round, but you can easily fix that by swapping the white and red wires.
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Gah, i still feel stupid because i dont get what your saying, i think id have managed this with 2 conductor wiring, but im not sure ill be able to fix this! What does "hot" mean? If a wire is "hot" where does it go, if a wire is "tap" ? The note i have from Tim says red = Tap white = Hot, the other two are grounding. I dont wanna give it to a tech when ive came this far, to late for that. Ill upload some pictures... from what your saying it sounds like i need to put in some extra wire or rewire other cables than the ones from the pickup.
If someone could draw in paint for me on these pictures id be really grateful, really sorry for taking this task on my own when i messed it up-.-
heres how it looks now. My neck pickup is only connected to the grounds as youll see and the red and white are lose because of confusion!:)
http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f343/Piriripak/
The ones that are not named MQ are the original humbuckers. Thanks again, hope i can solve this mess by tomorrow.
EDIT: Sorry, couldnt get all pictures in the post, so hope its ok if you click the link instead to my photobucket album;) Thanks.
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I modified a Seymour Duncan diagram. I hope it helps.
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Ok, thanks i see what you mean, but i dont have any extra wires... is there no way to get coil-tap with the existing wiring? I have push/pulls tone knobs, so should the the red or white be the upper? Thanks for the help. Could you look at the pictures at my link? There is a white cable that goes from the side of each push pull that goes two the two bended together bottom lugs (on the rows of three and looking from the view when im soldering). I thought i had it for a while until i noticed the yellow wire you drew (the one to the volume), but im not sure how i should get such a wire. Do i really need to get a new wire and put it from the volume to the middle lug? I feel like a pain to bother you phil, your really helpful, im just a bit slow to get this right. As i said the tone knobs are push-pulls, so now you know. Just feels strange that id need to rewire other things than the pickups when the coil-SPLIT worked as it was wired (see the pics on the link on my earlier post). So to clear this up, i have two push pull tone knobs, one push/pull tone for the neck and one for the bridge. Normal 3 way switch for pickups, and 2 volume knobs. Originally the guitar was wired for two coil-split humbuckers (the SG GTs come with coil-tap from factory). As you see in the pictures, the two bottom pin/lugs (on the rows of three) are bended together and soldered to a white wire if i remember right. Im getting so frustrated that i start regretting getting p90s, should have made it simple and just got splittable buckers and wired them just the same :x
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The problem is that on humbuckers you are doing coil split, which is taking one coil out of the connections. There are 2 ways to do this, one shorts the coil you don't want to earth (ground), the other takes the wires to the coil out of the wiring. With the P-90 you are doing coil tap, this involves adding a wire part way into the wind to give you less output from the pickup. The wiring for both is very different.
The easiest way is to remove all the wires from the switch you are going to use for the coil tap (including the bridging wire). Once you've done that you should have some pieces of wire, one should be long enough to reach the volume pot. Take this wire from the volume pot to the middle tab, and put your red and white to the outer tabs (I think the opposite way to the way they are in the diagram[red top, white bottom]).
I tried looking at the wiring pics today (I couldn't access them from work yesterday), but they are hard to see the details. If I was wiring it I would remove everything (especially the treble bleeds on the volume), and wire a basic circuit with the tap in it (however I have probably wired up more than two hundred guitars in the last 40 years!).
Just remember that you can wire it without the coil tap by putting the white to the volume control and taping off the red, and not using a switch.
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cr@p. This feels way to much. I feel so frustrated, when i was ordering the MQ i first asked if it would work, and people said yes, but i guess i never asked if it would be this difficult:/ should just have ordered a pair of Warpigs, and i could have exchanged them if i hadnt ordered a Pig 90 which are custom ordered, Tim warned me that this would make an exchange impossible, but gah, i dont feel capable of rewiring that much, i wont know what the heck im doing.. and having gone this far on my own im not gonna turn it in and pay probably 90 bucks to get them wired..
Phil, i can always get you better pics if you tell me what you need pictures of, im grateful that you gave me this much advice... Im almost at the point of selling them and ordering a new pair of humbuckers instead...
There are three wires from the neck push/pull, one white that goes from the bottom two tabs (the bended together ones) that goes from there to inside the pot itself as i see it, but further down at the circular parts side. Then theres a yellow one going from somewhere inside the push/pulls backside, doesnt look like its soldered, which goes on to the top of the volume pots (where the pups are grounded) and one last brown that goes to some intersection that has one of those brown round things and those tube looking things (as you notice i dont know this stuff)... is there no other way to do this? I dont know the effects of removing those wires... when i took on this task i thought it was simply wiring it exactly like my old pups since thats what people gave me the image of, but i dont wanna make it sound like i blame anyone else, im just in a bad mood since i cant get my only guitar working properly.
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Probably not what you want to hear, but if you feel its too much, a tech is the best bet. It will look clean as hell, and the chances are that the joints will be of better quality too.
Good luck though, you will be happy soon!
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Yep, swallowing my pride :shock:
turning it in as soon as possible (this evening). It feels like i already destroyed the electronics, for some reason i tried putting the red wire above the white wire (above lug on same row), so that white was in middle red on top, and well could only hear buzzing. So im hoping everythings fine.
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Ok, its turned in. Im prolly not getting it back until thurs/fri next week. Its in good hands i think, a pretty famous guy, Paul Guy, brittish/swedish guy with 40+ years of experience;) Said hed try to clean up the messy wiring too.