Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: tomjackson on January 24, 2009, 12:11:00 PM
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I've just seen this:-
http://www.prsguitars.com/starla/index.html
Never even heard of the Starla, but want one!!!!
No cheesy bird inlays
No fancy top or finish
Classic looking but original
Bigsby
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prs do gretsch
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Great loking guitars. Here's a bargain one too, for anyone who's looking...
£1099 - used, but they're so new it must be ex-demo???
http://www.coda-music.com/product_info.php?cPath=170&products_id=4656
(http://www.coda-music.com/images/shprsstarla.jpg)
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I like this one! Not fancy, looks more a workhorse SG
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Speaking of Gretsch, I know they're not PRS (or Gretsch) quality, but I really like the look of these babies...
(http://www.eastwoodguitars.com/GTRs/classic6/images/gtr_Waln-classic6-2.jpg)
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..not bad ..don't forget these at the cheaper end(http://www.peerlessguitars.co.uk/communities/6/004/006/185/346/images/4517634372.swf)
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SG, that's a lovely guitar (post directly above) - what is the mfr called?
btw, I meant to post the white version of the Eastwood semi (much sexier)...
(http://www.eastwoodguitars.com/GTRs/classic6/images/gtr_Wh-classic6.jpg)
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oh man! - I had to look didn't I... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Eastwood-Classic-6-in-White-One-Cool-Retro-Semi_W0QQitemZ220348130926QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item220348130926&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
£299, I could cry (ain't got the cash - being off work for 5 months before xmas really screwed the finances)
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Looks like the Bigsby bare doesn't sit too far out the way on that, right in the palm of your hand when resting your hand on the bridge.
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Without getting all Roo-like about it, Gretsches and Gretsch-types just don't do it for me.
I think the Starla's pretty ugly but, like the Mira, it seems to be a PRS-for-people-who-don't-like-PRS.
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Just looking at the PRS site, I see there's now a 22-fret Mira! But it's more slab-bodied like a double-cut LP Junior, and has "a solid African basswood body, a sipo mahogany neck and a pau ferro fretboard".
Hmmm, a PRS USA budget model? I was keen on the idea of a Mira 22, but I'm not sure about the Mira X:
http://www.prsguitars.com/mirax/index.html# (http://www.prsguitars.com/mirax/index.html#)
They also have the Sunburst 22 and Sunburst 245 which are basically just a Custom 22 and SC 245 with special finishes - seems a bit pointless designating them as separate models. PRS are leaving me a bit baffled nowadays. :?
http://www.prsguitars.com/sunburst22/index.html (http://www.prsguitars.com/sunburst22/index.html)
http://www.prsguitars.com/sunburst245/index.html (http://www.prsguitars.com/sunburst245/index.html)
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http://www.peerlessguitars.co.uk/#/news/4529220869 (http://www.peerlessguitars.co.uk/#/news/4529220869) Peerless Guitars HTH
(http://www.jamshop.se/images/items/PeerlessGigmasterCustomsm.jpg)
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Without getting all Roo-like about it, Gretsches and Gretsch-types just don't do it for me.
I think the Starla's pretty ugly but, like the Mira, it seems to be a PRS-for-people-who-don't-like-PRS.
+10! :lol:
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speaking of semi-hollows i'd like very much to try one of these...
(http://www.mayones.com/eng/zdjecie/katalog/maestro_amberrose_amb-b.jpg)
(http://www.mayones.com/eng/zdjecie/katalog/maestro_redrose_red-b.jpg)
(http://www.mayones.com/eng/zdjecie/katalog/maestro_blackrose_t-blk.jpg)
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Now, obviously I've expressed my dislike for PRS on plenty an occasion, but they have a market and a fanbase that love them to bits. I don't get why they've taken t making this stuff totally alien to their roots just to eak out a few more pence amongst the shedloads they bring in anyway.
To me, the Starla just looks like Paul has gone and said to his R&D guys "hey, we don't really have anything for the rockabilly type crowd, you wanna make somethng? Take 15 minutes, we'll do a run of the first thing you come up with, just whack a bigsby on something else we make, that'll do, if it looks daft, it still says PRS on it."
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Now, obviously I've expressed my dislike for PRS on plenty an occasion, but they have a market and a fanbase that love them to bits. I don't get why they've taken t making this stuff totally alien to their roots just to eak out a few more pence amongst the shedloads they bring in anyway.
To me, the Starla just looks like Paul has gone and said to his R&D guys "hey, we don't really have anything for the rockabilly type crowd, you wanna make somethng? Take 15 minutes, we'll do a run of the first thing you come up with, just whack a bigsby on something else we make, that'll do, if it looks daft, it still says PRS on it."
i'm not so radical against it but you expressed some of my thoughts...
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To me, the Starla just looks like Paul has gone and said to his R&D guys "hey, we don't really have anything for the rockabilly type crowd, you wanna make somethng? Take 15 minutes, we'll do a run of the first thing you come up with, just whack a bigsby on something else we make, that'll do, if it looks daft, it still says PRS on it."
That's very disrespectful to a highly succesful businessman with a genuine passion for his company and his guitars.
You may not like his work, but there's no need to belittle what he does.
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i "almost" approved nfe's words so i reply to twinfan's post...
personally i am disappointed when brands known for some traditional and seminal design start to make "experiments" like the RG copies that fender made in the 90s (fender doing supertstrats!) or the various shredder-friendly gibsons (or the PRSish gibson longhorn)... they made guitars still copied and used as standards by every other guitar maker... so OR they come out with some really new and influential design OR they better stick to what they do so well...
the starla is just PRS doing an SG single-cut copy, and there's nothing bad about this, but i definitely prefer the original PRS designs!
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anyway i never said i don't like the starla (at least the one above is really nice) :)
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Hey, there's no problem having an opinion - we've all got them! I was just opposing the view that PRS had somehow "threw something together".
I've not played one, but I'm willing to bet that the Starla is made of quality woods, plays well straight out of the box, has a good tone and is very well finished. That's more than most manufacturers can manage consistently.
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What d'you think of the Mira X, Dave?
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Just looking at the PRS site, I see there's now a 22-fret Mira! But it's more slab-bodied like a double-cut LP Junior, and has "a solid African basswood body, a sipo mahogany neck and a pau ferro fretboard".
Hmmm, a PRS USA budget model? I was keen on the idea of a Mira 22, but I'm not sure about the Mira X:
http://www.prsguitars.com/mirax/index.html# (http://www.prsguitars.com/mirax/index.html#)
yeah, that's strange. i think they're trying to be the next Fender/Gibson...
kind of risky, it could work or massively backfire...
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To me, the Starla just looks like Paul has gone and said to his R&D guys "hey, we don't really have anything for the rockabilly type crowd, you wanna make somethng? Take 15 minutes, we'll do a run of the first thing you come up with, just whack a bigsby on something else we make, that'll do, if it looks daft, it still says PRS on it."
That's very disrespectful to a highly succesful businessman with a genuine passion for his company and his guitars.
You may not like his work, but there's no need to belittle what he does.
I disagree. I don't think the guitar will be any worse than their other similarly priced models, once it was drawn up I'm sure plenty effort went into making the production models, it's just that I think the design itself looks thrown together. To me it looks completely jarring, like someone's just been pulling bits off disparate styles of instruments and sticking them together in photoshop.
They're blatantly just trying to force their way into markets that they haven't been in before, which is fair enough but at least try to do it with some panache, why not try to make a completely new take on something? Why just whap a bigsby and scratchplate onto one of their current models?
If I was Mr Smith, I would like to hope I'd just think "You know, I'm extremely succesful, I make shedloads of money making these instruments I've made my name with, people love them. I think I'll just keep trying to make better and better versions of these." True to the original vision, if you like.
I was surprised enough when they made the SE level models - likewise with Parker and their mid priced instruments - why bother? Why not just keep makking good quality stuff and try retain that niche brand identity.
There's a reason nobody remembers Fender's "metal" guitars...
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Pretty much that pickguard is a mix between the SG and the Mira, with a SG color and Bigsby... But most of good idea are simple (specially talking about guitars and guitar building, when you start to make it too fancy is when the cr@p starts to hit the fan)...
Probably you're right on a part of your thought, this looks to me too as a try to expand their business and I can't say that's bad, if they keep their quality control...
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To me, the Starla just looks like Paul has gone and said to his R&D guys "hey, we don't really have anything for the rockabilly type crowd, you wanna make somethng? Take 15 minutes, we'll do a run of the first thing you come up with, just whack a bigsby on something else we make, that'll do, if it looks daft, it still says PRS on it."
That's very disrespectful to a highly succesful businessman with a genuine passion for his company and his guitars.
You may not like his work, but there's no need to belittle what he does.
on you on PRS's payroll? :lol:
i didn't realise we had to be respectful to everyone... :)
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To me, the Starla just looks like Paul has gone and said to his R&D guys "hey, we don't really have anything for the rockabilly type crowd, you wanna make somethng? Take 15 minutes, we'll do a run of the first thing you come up with, just whack a bigsby on something else we make, that'll do, if it looks daft, it still says PRS on it."
That's very disrespectful to a highly succesful businessman with a genuine passion for his company and his guitars.
You may not like his work, but there's no need to belittle what he does.
I disagree. I don't think the guitar will be any worse than their other similarly priced models, once it was drawn up I'm sure plenty effort went into making the production models, it's just that I think the design itself looks thrown together. To me it looks completely jarring, like someone's just been pulling bits off disparate styles of instruments and sticking them together in photoshop.
They're blatantly just trying to force their way into markets that they haven't been in before, which is fair enough but at least try to do it with some panache, why not try to make a completely new take on something? Why just whap a bigsby and scratchplate onto one of their current models?
If I was Mr Smith, I would like to hope I'd just think "You know, I'm extremely succesful, I make shedloads of money making these instruments I've made my name with, people love them. I think I'll just keep trying to make better and better versions of these." True to the original vision, if you like.
I was surprised enough when they made the SE level models - likewise with Parker and their mid priced instruments - why bother? Why not just keep makking good quality stuff and try retain that niche brand identity.
There's a reason nobody remembers Fender's "metal" guitars...
Didn't Gibson and Fender design new guitars in the 50's to try to force their way into markets that they hadn't been in before?
What makes you so angry and richeous about a guitar design?
The Telecaster looks like it took 15 minutes to design and it was the first thing Leo Fender come up with, still like it though.....
At the end of the day guitars are for playing so go try one and then add some comments of substance.
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fwiw, I don't like the look of the Starla either - doesn't quite sit right. The DC shape they use on the Santana models with the different headstock shape would've looked better with the Bigsby (imo).
Like Dave said though, I bet it's very well made and plays really nice. Reminds me of those Starfield guitars in the early 90s - always though they looked cr@p, but they played like buttah (would probably buy one now if the price was right, the necks were awesome)
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I saw one in person yesterday, it's not ugly but it's not that good looking either. I reckon it would be better if they actually used Filtertron pickups rather than showing both rows of the bucker. Atleast they openly say they made it to appeal to the indie scene.
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on you on PRS's payroll? :lol:
i didn't realise we had to be respectful to everyone... :)
Ha ha! No I'm not! We don't have to be respectiful, I was just expresssing my opinion on what I thought were harsh words from nfe.
What d'you think of the Mira X, Dave?
I'm not sure Phil. They don't seem to have the extra carves and contours that the regular Mira has? They look a bit 'flat' to me. I'm not sure it adds anything extra to the range, unlike the Starla which is something new.
They're blatantly just trying to force their way into markets that they haven't been in before, which is fair enough but at least try to do it with some panache, why not try to make a completely new take on something? Why just whap a bigsby and scratchplate onto one of their current models?
They haven't. The body shape is new. It looks familar as it's got the PRS styling cues - cutaway contours, headstock design, Santana/Mira lower body etc. It's evolution not revolution.
If I was Mr Smith, I would like to hope I'd just think "You know, I'm extremely succesful, I make shedloads of money making these instruments I've made my name with, people love them. I think I'll just keep trying to make better and better versions of these." True to the original vision, if you like.
I was surprised enough when they made the SE level models - likewise with Parker and their mid priced instruments - why bother? Why not just keep makking good quality stuff and try retain that niche brand identity.
You can't expand a business that way. PRS wants to grow.
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a lot of die hard PRS fans didnt get this guitar, it's here to capture a market and it's doing a great job I think it looks fantastic.
not my bag and I wouldn't own one myself but they've gotta be someones thing!
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What makes you so angry and richeous about a guitar design?
I'm just not keen on people making something that absolutely screams "I'm a greedy scoundrel and desperately want more money".
But really, this has all come from me basically thinking this is a hideous and daft looking guitar.
It would have stayed like that were it not for the PRS fanboy crusaders :lol:
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I'm just not keen on people making something that absolutely screams "I'm a greedy scoundrel and desperately want more money".
That's just business! :lol: I'm all for giving people more choice :)
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I'm just not keen on people making something that absolutely screams "I'm a greedy scoundrel and desperately want more money".
That's just business! :lol: I'm all for giving people more choice :)
I know, but I sit a bit to the left of Che Guevara in most matters :lol:
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Ha ha! No I'm not! We don't have to be respectiful, I was just expresssing my opinion on what I thought were harsh words from nfe.
yeah, i know. :)
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What makes you so angry and richeous about a guitar design?
I'm just not keen on people making something that absolutely screams "I'm a greedy scoundrel and desperately want more money".
But really, this has all come from me basically thinking this is a hideous and daft looking guitar.
It would have stayed like that were it not for the PRS fanboy crusaders :lol:
Of which guitars are you a fanboy crusader of? Which Pious non-profit organisation makes your axes?
I hope you are not a fan of Gibson or Fender because your argument would be full of bird inlay size holes.....
And don't think I'm championing PRS, that's why I started the thread, I usually find them too flashy and refined. But I think this guitar looks nice, that's all :D
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Nope, I just can't bring myself to like that guitar.
Bigsby! Urgh!!!
The guitar that has me liking PRS is the Mira.
Mark.
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What makes you so angry and richeous about a guitar design?
I'm just not keen on people making something that absolutely screams "I'm a greedy scoundrel and desperately want more money".
But really, this has all come from me basically thinking this is a hideous and daft looking guitar.
It would have stayed like that were it not for the PRS fanboy crusaders :lol:
Of which guitars are you a fanboy crusader of?
None.
Which Pious non-profit organisation makes your axes?
My two main guitars are Parker flys, but I'm the first to say they're not worth the money the average person pays for a new one. I got both of mine with more than a £1000 discount, and I sill think they were expensive
I hope you are not a fan of Gibson or Fender because your argument would be full of bird inlay size holes.....
Everything I say about PRS I would say about Gibson, only with extra bits about their laughable quality control. I like Fenders, I think they make workmanlike guitars for a sensible price. I have no interest in anything they make further up the scale than US standards. I did make mention earlier that when they did/do what PRS is currently doing, it's always a dismal failure. With good reason, so when they stick to making good guitars they made their name with, I think that's smashing.
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but at least try to do it with some panache, why not try to make a completely new take on something? Why just whap a bigsby and scratchplate onto one of their current models?
Why not? Lots of people like PRSs, lots of people like Bigsbys, I'm sure quite a few people would like a PRS with a Bigsby.
If I was Mr Smith, I would like to hope I'd just think "You know, I'm extremely succesful, I make shedloads of money making these instruments I've made my name with, people love them. I think I'll just keep trying to make better and better versions of these." True to the original vision, if you like.
Staying true to the original vision and expanding their range aren't mutually exclusive.
I was surprised enough when they made the SE level models - likewise with Parker and their mid priced instruments - why bother? Why not just keep makking good quality stuff and try retain that niche brand identity.
You've answered your own question: money. And the fact that a lot of people want to own a PRS but cannot afford their expensive models.
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The SE guitars are nice as well imo :)
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Why not? Lots of people like PRS's, lots of people like Bigsby's, I'm sure quite a few people would like a PRS with a Bigsby.
Staying true to the original vision and expanding their range aren't mutually exclusive.
agreed on both points. :)
You've answered your own question: money. And the fact that a lot of people want to own a PRS but cannot afford their expensive models.
also the fact that many people would prefer to have a mediocre guitar with PRS on the headstock than a good (or even great) guitar with a different name. Fender and Gibson thrive on the same kind of thinking which is prevalent in the guitar community (it's not just guitars either, most products have "aspirational" brands, which is a crock of you-know-what if you ask me).
No joke, I was in a shop once where a guy point-blank refused to even try a Tokai (it was a Japanese one, by the way) because it didnt' say "Les Paul" on the headstock. And would have been willing to buy the cheapest available Epiphone because it did...
:? :evil:
I mean, what chance do the rest of us have when half the customers are walking marketing department's dreams? :lol:
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also the fact that many people would prefer to have a mediocre guitar with PRS on the headstock than a good (or even great) guitar with a different name. Fender and Gibson thrive on the same kind of thinking which is prevalent in the guitar community (it's not just guitars either, most products have "aspirational" brands, which is a crock of you-know-what if you ask me).
No joke, I was in a shop once where a guy point-blank refused to even try a Tokai (it was a Japanese one, by the way) because it didnt' say "Les Paul" on the headstock. And would have been willing to buy the cheapest available Epiphone because it did...
True, but to a (lesser) extent you also get the reverse snobbery situation of "my Tokai's better than any Gibson". Which may be true (within reason), but is quite often said by people who - perhaps - haven't actually played all that many Gibsons.
Anyway, I can sympathise with both sides of the argument. My Tokai SG is better than most of the Gibson SGs I've owned. But I also quite like the fact that my Epis legitimately say "Les Paul" on the headstock. :wink:
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yeah, i agree about the inverse snobbery. i prefer to tell it like it is- based on what i've tried, cheapest MIJ tokais are almost as good as a (good example of a) gibson standard series (by that i mean non-custom shop) for a lot less money, but a bit lower in spec (several piece backs, poly finish etc.).
Edwards: similar in quality to a good example of standard series gibsons, without the full nitro finish... sometimes odd choice of pickups though (duncan JB in a LP? :? )
the gibsons do feel a little more handmade than the lower end tokais and edwardses (i've heard you say this before too, and it's true), but the big problem with the gibsons (especially the cheaper ones with the worse QC) is that it can include some of the bad points of handmaking as well as the good- i've tried some cheaper gibbos and it literally felt like the frets just hadn't been finished at all... :lol: though they did sound good.
high end tokais- nicer than standard series gibsons for a similar price (if not less).
all of those destroy any (non-MIJ) epiphone i've tried... that was my problem, that the guy was willing to buy a (to be fair, subjectively and in my opinion) much worse guitar because of the headstock name. i don't mind someone paying more money for the headstock name if it's a really good guitar, but buying something worse... :?
:)
and you're cheating with your epis, they're the badass MIJ ones, aren't they? :lol: i nearly bought one of those myself except it fell through (seller accidentally misdescribed it and noticed before it was posted, gave me the offer of a refund, and as i wasn't sure what to do, i chickened out and took it).
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also the fact that many people would prefer to have a mediocre guitar with PRS on the headstock than a good (or even great) guitar with a different name. Fender and Gibson thrive on the same kind of thinking which is prevalent in the guitar community (it's not just guitars either, most products have "aspirational" brands, which is a crock of you-know-what if you ask me).
No joke, I was in a shop once where a guy point-blank refused to even try a Tokai (it was a Japanese one, by the way) because it didnt' say "Les Paul" on the headstock. And would have been willing to buy the cheapest available Epiphone because it did...
True, but to a (lesser) extent you also get the reverse snobbery situation of "my Tokai's better than any Gibson". Which may be true (within reason), but is quite often said by people who - perhaps - haven't actually played all that many Gibsons.
Anyway, I can sympathise with both sides of the argument. My Tokai SG is better than most of the Gibson SGs I've owned. But I also quite like the fact that my Epis legitimately say "Les Paul" on the headstock. :wink:
This is the truth!
I'm always suspicious of brand bashers without having reasons or examples, it seems to be cool to bash big brands for the sake of it.
I don't get on with most Lespauls because the build is often dire- binding not meeting edges and shoddy fret work are the most common I see, regardless they ussually sound great plugged in and PRS because of the image they have for being Doctors guitars that get hung up on the wall and not played.
I saw the most perfect Tele earlier this afternoon btw, it's a deluxe thingy with S1 switching and had TONS of sex apeal/vibe, the wood had the sweetest grain and it was 1099!!!
Went a bit off topic there... :lol:
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i guess what i should say (and it would have saved a paragraph :lol: ) is that the japanese copy is more often than not far better than the equivalently-priced fender or gibson.
:)
but yeah, sometimes it does go overboard and it's just mindless bashing rather than coolly-reasoned (is that a word?) analysis. also annoys me when the kids say that their £50 westfield is nicer than a custom-shop fender too...
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but a bit lower in spec (several piece backs, poly finish etc.).
Edwards: similar in quality to a good example of standard series gibsons, without the full nitro finish... sometimes odd choice of pickups though (duncan JB in a LP? :? )
The general conseous from people is that nitro is somehow a better finish then Poly/Acrylics-it ages a certain way and feeds the image of quality because of the value of vintage guitars-that's what the kind of mindf**cking marketing the bigboy companies really tap into-look at the new PRS DGT-PRS improved their nitro by using plasticizers so it wont crack... :lol:
It was actually only the very early Fenders that had all Nitro finishes, Leo soon learned that a poly basecoat worked better-but ofcourse most people will look at a vintage Fender and tell you it has a nitro finish and then go on to say that it's why it's so great because it 'lets the wood breath'... facepalm
I'm not having a dig at you Dave-just saw the those comments and they got me ranting lol!! ;-D
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yeah. :) i didn't know that about the basecoat in vintage fenders actually, thanks for that.
actually, going back to the dude who wouldn't try the tokai- it's the fact he refused to even try it which got my goat... what harm does trying something do? everybody has different reasons and will have different things which are more important to them, which is fair enough, of course, and i always advise that everyone makes their own decision... but it's a lot harder to make a decision without having all the information... i just knew he was dismissing tokais as another cheap knock-off like westfield, which clearly they aren't.
oh well, his loss, and with any luck the fewer people who know about them makes it cheaper for those of us who do... :lol:
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the gibsons do feel a little more handmade than the lower end tokais and edwardses (i've heard you say this before too, and it's true), but the big problem with the gibsons (especially the cheaper ones with the worse QC) is that it can include some of the bad points of handmaking as well as the good- i've tried some cheaper gibbos and it literally felt like the frets just hadn't been finished at all... :lol: though they did sound good.
Totally agreed. They feel handmade, in a rough-and-ready sort of way. I once had two guitars with P-90s, a Gibson LP Special and a Hamer Special. If you compared the timber, finishing and detailing, the Gibson was shocking... but it felt so much better.
and you're cheating with your epis, they're the badass MIJ ones, aren't they? :lol:
:lol: They are indeed! Proper headstock, nitro finishes* and all. :D
They're still cheap little guitars, but they sound great (mind you, I have a theory that's something to do with the full-width neck tenon on those singlecut LP Juniors).
(* Points taken about nitro finishes, Lew. But I do like the way they feel and look. :) )
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yeah. :) i didn't know that about the basecoat in vintage fenders actually, thanks for that.
actually, going back to the dude who wouldn't try the tokai- it's the fact he refused to even try it which got my goat... what harm does trying something do? everybody has different reasons and will have different things which are more important to them, which is fair enough, of course, and i always advise that everyone makes their own decision... but it's a lot harder to make a decision without having all the information... i just knew he was dismissing tokais as another cheap knock-off like westfield, which clearly they aren't.
oh well, his loss, and with any luck the fewer people who know about them makes it cheaper for those of us who do... :lol:
Oh I get you for sure, you get people so ready to slag off Mexican Fenders just because they are made in Mexico and are therefore lower quality... and then go and rant on about how they dont make them like they used to in the good 'ole USA.... of-course completly ignorant to the fact that, that really expensive vintage Tele used on so many iconic recordings was... yep assembled by Mexicans :lol:
Didn't mean to sound like an ass ;-)
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(* Points taken about nitro finishes, Lew. But I do like the way they feel and look. :) )
Oh man, nothing looks cooler than a beaten old Tele ;-D
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yeah. :) i didn't know that about the basecoat in vintage fenders actually, thanks for that.
actually, going back to the dude who wouldn't try the tokai- it's the fact he refused to even try it which got my goat... what harm does trying something do? everybody has different reasons and will have different things which are more important to them, which is fair enough, of course, and i always advise that everyone makes their own decision... but it's a lot harder to make a decision without having all the information... i just knew he was dismissing tokais as another cheap knock-off like westfield, which clearly they aren't.
oh well, his loss, and with any luck the fewer people who know about them makes it cheaper for those of us who do... :lol:
You know what's even more frustrating? When some you kid comes into a shop to buy his first guitar and his Dad's pal who knows everything there is to know about guitars (cause he has a Gibson, y'know!) takes over and doesn't let the poor kid actually try anything he likes, because he "needs to get an Epiphone as they're owned by Gibson, so they're the best, see!"
In the run up to Christmas in busy guitar shops, you've at least half a dozen of these a day. The other cracker is the wife who comes in to buy her husband a 335 for his 40th with his best mate, the guitar expert, in tow.
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^ :lol:
Totally agreed. They feel handmade, in a rough-and-ready sort of way. I once had two guitars with P-90s, a Gibson LP Special and a Hamer Special. If you compared the timber, finishing and detailing, the Gibson was shocking... but it felt so much better.
yeah, rough-and-ready is about right. sometimes it's the good rough-and-ready (feels like a workhorse), sometimes it's the bad (terrible fretwork and finishing). definitely one of those "don't buy online" guitars. :D
and agreed about feel- the back of the body etc. feels cool with the thin finish, but if the fretwork's really bad then it feels bad to play. if that makes sense.
:lol: They are indeed! Proper headstock, nitro finishes* and all. :D
They're still cheap little guitars, but they sound great (mind you, I have a theory that's something to do with the full-width neck tenon on those singlecut LP Juniors).
:D
i've never actually tried one, but heard good things and took a chance as the price stayed low (then it fell through, as i said, so i still haven't tried one :lol: ). much like the MIJ fenders, though, i almost consider them Japanese copies too, like tokai etc., as they're often made in the same factories as the copies... :)
Oh I get you for sure, you get people so ready to slag off Mexican Fenders just because they are made in Mexico and are therefore lower quality... and then go and rant on about how they dont make them like they used to in the good 'ole USA.... of-course completly ignorant to the fact that, that really expensive vintage Tele used on so many iconic recordings was... yep assembled by Mexicans :lol:
Didn't mean to sound like an ass ;-)
you didn't sound like an ass, don't worry. :)
i think the problem is that for most things you have bashers and fanboys, and it's best not to listen to either or they'll drive you mad. I admit I'm a fan of Japanese guitars, but it's solely because of the quality:price ratio... if that disappears, I'll stop liking them.
:)
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the gibsons do feel a little more handmade than the lower end tokais and edwardses (i've heard you say this before too, and it's true), but the big problem with the gibsons (especially the cheaper ones with the worse QC) is that it can include some of the bad points of handmaking as well as the good- i've tried some cheaper gibbos and it literally felt like the frets just hadn't been finished at all... :lol: though they did sound good.
Totally agreed. They feel handmade, in a rough-and-ready sort of way. I once had two guitars with P-90s, a Gibson LP Special and a Hamer Special. If you compared the timber, finishing and detailing, the Gibson was shocking... but it felt so much better.
I love the lower end Gibsons. I own the swamp ash SG (which is like a gloss nitro special) and a Les Paul vintage mahogany studio. £450 and £480 respectively, both with hard cases.
You read a lot about Gibson QC, but both these guitars were excellent straight out of the box. Maybe not flawless, bearing in mind I'm comparing them to stuff like PRS, but very playable, with nice fretwork (if not boutique) and no issues.
What they do have is some kind of indefinable mojo, or vibe, which seems to be missing on many other makes of guitar. It's not just imagined, 'cos it makes them sound good, and feel good, too.
I could have a beautiful PRS if I wanted, but having tried quite a few, courtesy (amongst others) of TF, who has some crackers, they just don't do it for me. A PRS may well be spot-on straigth out of the box, but that don't matter to me none. I'm not in a hurry. :wink:
Highway One Fenders have it going on too.
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I think it's you old guys who love Gibsons. Us young guns love the new makers ;) :lol:
I've just never found the Gibson 'vibe', but others (like Martin) can't get away from it.
Horses for courses!
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God, it's like an immune response! :lol:
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:lol:
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I don't give a shitee about the make. I have guitars from pretty much everyone under the sun. One of my favourites for some sounds is an old Sears Silvertone hollowbody with DeArmond pickups that are about 1cm thick. The pickups look like they wouldn't do anything, but they have an incredible sound. I also have lots of Gibsons and Fenders, and a few PRS's too. Really if the guitar sounds good acoustically and has no issues with the wood (warping, twisting, etc), then the rest of it can be fixed. Issues are not confined to new stuff either, I know someone with a real 57 strat that is unplayable in winter, but comes right back when the humidity comes up again. My 57 neck moves quite a lot with humidity too. I bet when they were new they were saying that they don't make Strats like they used to!
btw. I really don't like the new PRS. It reminds me of a cheap old Les Paul copy!
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(* Points taken about nitro finishes, Lew. But I do like the way they feel and look. :) )
Oh man, nothing looks cooler than a beaten old Tele ;-D
Apart from a burned one...
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What they do have is some kind of indefinable mojo, or vibe, which seems to be missing on many other makes of guitar. It's not just imagined, 'cos it makes them sound good, and feel good, too.
The reason it's indefinable is because it's an emotional connection that's personal to you...possibly from years of watching your heroes use it?
How do you get on with Strats? You should try the sc245 for an experiement and see how much of that feel you love in the Gibbo is actually the scale length 8)
(* Points taken about nitro finishes, Lew. But I do like the way they feel and look. :) )
Oh man, nothing looks cooler than a beaten old Tele ;-D
Apart from a burned one...
:lol:
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(* Points taken about nitro finishes, Lew. But I do like the way they feel and look. :) )
Oh man, nothing looks cooler than a beaten old Tele ;-D
Apart from a burned one...
I like the smell of Faned-Fret NAPALMED in the morning... it smells like victory :twisted:
:lol:
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i am quite confident roo's barry would survive a bit of fire, i cant imagine how long that bubinga and wenge would take to catch and burn through
an alder or ash tele wouldnt last as long :P
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i am quite confident roo's barry would survive a bit of fire, i cant imagine how long that bubinga and wenge would take to catch and burn through
an alder or ash tele wouldnt last as long :P
WIN!
lol :)
Roo
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Hmm, IMO the Starla is pig-ugly... I have no doubt it's very well made, though.
Disclaimer - I hated PRS guitars until I got the chance to pick one up on the cheap (relatively speaking). I changed my mind after about 10 seconds.
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i am quite confident roo's barry would survive a bit of fire, i cant imagine how long that bubinga and wenge would take to catch and burn through
an alder or ash tele wouldnt last as long :P
:lol: The only way to know is try it... :D
Having been thinking about a FF for a while, not for playing, I'm sure I can't play it...
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I can tell you for a start that you'll have to get through me to set light to my little puppy! :shock:
You'd be surprised how easy it is to play a multiscale, Fernando - they're really not any different! It takes very little time to get used to it :)
Roo
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You'd be surprised how easy it is to play a multiscale, Fernando - they're really not any different! It takes very little time to get used to it :)
Roo
I can't call myself seriously a "player" and get real small fingers :?
But Wez's and Blackmachine's FF have been coming on mind quite a while that I'm intrigued to build one, just for fun... But it's a long way from where I'm now on building :(
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I think it's you old guys who love Gibsons. Us young guns love the new makers ;) :lol:
I've just never found the Gibson 'vibe', but others (like Martin) can't get away from it.
Horses for courses!
didn't you used to like gibson about 6 months ago? :lol:
i just like everything... :lol:
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I think it's you old guys who love Gibsons. Us young guns love the new makers ;) :lol:
I've just never found the Gibson 'vibe', but others (like Martin) can't get away from it.
Horses for courses!
didn't you used to like gibson about 6 months ago? :lol:
He's not that young either... :wink:
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:lol:
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:o Bar-stewards! :lol:
'Tis true I liked Gibsons until recently, but I never loved them ;)
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A funny one with PRS and me, this thread has made me think about it a LOT over the last few days...
I don't like the Mira or Starla one bit, but i love the CU/CE 24's and Singlecuts...
Though with the CU/CE's, it HAS to be a 24 the 22's just look too smooth from what i've seen, and it has to be a nice vivid paint job to that helps the body contours really 'pop' out and it looks amazing. The 22's just don't do that for some reason...
After playing one the other day... they're just amazing, they sound real good, sustain's real well and most importantly the feel, there's nothing in the way, it just plays completely naturally, there is nothing getting in the way of you and your playing no matter, no resistance at all. I like Twinfan, have fallen in love...
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Ha ha - another convert!
That's why I like them too ;)
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I like Twinfan, have fallen in love...
The correct term is "been assimilated".
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:lol:
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:o Bar-stewards! :lol:
'Tis true I liked Gibsons until recently, but I never loved them ;)
hahaha, ah ok... :)