Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: The Sorbz on February 04, 2009, 08:57:32 PM
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Hi fellas,
I bought some Nailbombs off here to put in my LP Custom and, although they sound great, they are a little hard if you know what I mean. I put the original HB-R and HB-L Gibsons back in and, I think they sound better IN THIS PARTICULAR GUITAR.
These Gibson pickups are limited run ones in the LP Custom for only a couple of years. My problem is I want to find a set of BKs to replace them which will be very powerful and warm at the same time. I was thinking Crawlers, rebel Yells or Holy Divers. I play all sorts of stuff from Blues to metal.
Anyone wanna swap 'em for RY, HDs or Crawlers. In any case let me know what you think.
(I have a HD in my Warmoth bridge and it is magnificent - different wood, weight etc).
Cheers,
Jim
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Don't advertise for swaps here.
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Are you telling me off?
I was saying that they don't sound good in my LP and that I wanted your opinions.
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What specifically is it about them don't sound good? Just out of interest.
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What sound do you want?
What is the problem/s with your current sound?
"Better" and "worse" arent very helpfull mate!
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Right - here we go......
I always thought that th Gibson p/us were a little lacking in bite, especially the neck pickup which sounded a little too muddy, and wanted more cutting but gritty sound.
I managed to buy the Nailbombs off this site at a good price and fitted them straightaway. They were awesomely poweful through my JVM at home but live they were loud but a little cold sounding. I know they would sound good in a lighter body, maybe downtuned and through the OD2 channel of my amp (playing Trivium, Sabbath, Bullet etc).
Now, I just replaced the Gibsons as a comparison and they were warmer then the N/Bs but not as pwerful. I am now looking for a set of BKs which will cut through the mix, enable me to play a variety of rock/ metal styles and have a lovely warm Gary Moore-ish singing neck solo sound. I suspect HDs or Crawlers.
So maybe you could now advise me ..... mate.
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Have a look into the Cold Sweat if you are willing to go ceramic?
oops, sorry. You say there wasn't enoug bite in the Gibson pickups
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Abraxas maybe? There's a good thread about them here:
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=15855.0 (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=15855.0)
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Now, I just replaced the Gibsons as a comparison and they were warmer then the N/Bs but not as pwerful. I am now looking for a set of BKs which will cut through the mix, enable me to play a variety of rock/ metal styles and have a lovely warm Gary Moore-ish singing neck solo sound. I suspect HDs or Crawlers.
So maybe you could now advise me ..... mate.
You need a lower output/Alnico IV neck pickup for that smooth, warm, singing and woody neck tone. For less 'woody', but more smoothness (through any distortion level) you need the Cold Sweat neck for your Les Paul Custom. The CS neck is
very warm, fluid and sweet on the cleans.
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So maybe you could now advise me ..... mate.
Charm and joviality will get you everywhere :roll:
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So maybe you could now advise me ..... mate.
Charm and joviality will get you everywhere :roll:
Not only me that picked up on this then.
The guy was only giving you advice, no need to get a little bit snotty whether it was intended or not. I know that it's pretty hard to interpret someones tone of 'voice' through text but try not to come across as a brat, we're only trying to help!
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I still didn't get what you didn't like and what exactly do you want
what do you call hard and what do you call cold?
do you want somthing brighter or darker? smoother? or less hot? less bassy?
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Calm downs lads!!!! I was only responding to another poster's use of mate!!
So - maybe a HD bridge with a Cold Sweat neck or .... a calibrated Crawler set.
btw .. if you read Harmony-Central reviews on the Gibson HB pickups, they have rave reviews and give a nice 80s rock sound. It's just that I'd like a little more edge to them.
The neck pickup sounds a little muffled and I'd like them a little brighter but with a nice dirt when pushed.
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uhuh... this thread went hot and usually this doesn't happen! :)
i think you should try a cold sweat in the neck, and i'm quite sure. at least if you want a fluid and smooth tone wich nonetheless retains clarity and articulation...
for the bridge, if you found nailbomb to be "cold" i can't suggest you a cold sweat as well... it's slightly less hot and quite less aggressive sounding than the nailbomb maybe due to smoother mids (at least in my opinion, but i've played NB much more than CS), but it has got a bit more high end and clarity (it's ceramic, after all), so you could find it even colder...
you mentioned 80s hard rock and obvious answer would be holydivers, but i've got still no personal experience. once i get my holydivers installed i can tell you something about the bridge unit!
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Calm downs lads!!!! I was only responding to another poster's use of mate!!
So - maybe a HD bridge with a Cold Sweat neck or .... a calibrated Crawler set.
btw .. if you read Harmony-Central reviews on the Gibson HB pickups, they have rave reviews and give a nice 80s rock sound. It's just that I'd like a little more edge to them.
The neck pickup sounds a little muffled and I'd like them a little brighter but with a nice dirt when pushed.
I think you should calm a bit (with all respect)...Guitarists on this people-friendly forum know what they're talking about. Gibson HB pickups are nice, but just don't compete with the organic and naturel character from BKP's. The only problem is to find the right BKP's and even then it could be frustrating at times to find the right pickups (depending on the guitar, set-up etc.)
You can try the Crawlers (for a bit more blues/rock edge and cut I, while still being warm with enough output to drive the amp really hard).
The Cold Sweats are great too, but the bridge pickup is ceramic which you may or may not like (even if it sounds warm and organic).
It's always a guess.
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I can recommend the neck Holydiver, I have recently fitted a calibrated set to my Eggle Berlin HT which has the same timbers to your LP Custom (albiet less of it) and I find both pups sound great, the neck is very clear and fat/bright, great for big clean chords and pretty stuff, it also dirtys up when asked and I would say GM sounds are within its reach
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Depends on the guitar.
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Did you buy them from BKP? Do you know that you can send them back in 14 days?
I would go for a calibrated set of Crawlers. I have both Crawlers and Nailbombs. and I also find the nailbombs also a liiiiiiittle bit "hard". I think you would be very satisfied with a set of Crawlers in your LP.
I got a set of Crawlers in my LP and a set of Nailbombs in my Ibanez Jem. (For the record: I like my nailbombs to)
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I'm still thinking hard about this all.
If the Nailbombs won't work well in your Les Paul, than I think/guess that the Holydivers won't work too...they're both thick, fat and organic sounding pickups and the Nailbomb neck is warmer than the Holydiver neck. Strange, I don't know how to help you further.
Maybe Crawlers like Donatello suggested (never tried them).
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:lol: Thorny short of a chap, eh? The "mate" was supposed to maintain a friendly tone while asking for more information to be able to help you with, and giving the general advice of including more detail when talking tone - we cant get in your head to see what you like, use words! We dont have to take the time to help you at all. Might be worth remembering that if you feel like being snotty.
Anyway, to tone!
Theres the mass of LPs to consider, givng a tonne of lows, but the maple top also adds quite a bit of high end that could easily (havent played the particular combo, but have obviously played les pauls and nailbombs) give a strongly attacking high mid when combined.
At a guess I'd say you want to move to something AIV in the neck - maybe crawler, maybe mules. The fatter mids, lessened attack and softer highs should help. They'll sing and be generally smoother than AV. Maybe even go for an AII mule.
The easiest thing and cheapest thing would be to get an AIV magnet installed in your nailbomb. Its untested as far as I know, but I guess, from the sound of nailbombs and the way AIV powers a wind you might like it. Check with Tim on that one though.
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:lol: Thorny short of a chap, eh? The "mate" was supposed to maintain a friendly tone while asking for more information to be able to help you with, and giving the general advice of including more detail when talking tone - we cant get in your head to see what you like, use words! We dont have to take the time to help you at all. Might be worth remembering that if you feel like being snotty.
I'm sorry mate but where in my message did it ever infer that I was being snotty. I merely replied (supposedly in a comical way) with the word mate BECAUSE you used it. I see this all over Tinternet - individuals going off on one assuming they have understood the tone of what was being said and then others joining in. That was never the intention from this callsign - it was a buckshee comment to keep the thread personable. I hope this is an end to it.
btw: I am the Sorbz62 who spent ALL my time helping others find a good tone on the BossGTCentral forum and I posted hundreds of presets for others. So please don't assume that I don't appreciate your help coz I do.
Anyway, I'll take your advice and look at changing the magnets in the N/B although I'd think that Rebel Yell/ Holy Divers/ Cold Sweat would probably fit the bill.
Yours completely chastised and at inner peace with the world!!! (only kidding - please don't put me down!!)
Jim
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Try a Rebel Yell neck.
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:lol: Thorny short of a chap, eh? The "mate" was supposed to maintain a friendly tone while asking for more information to be able to help you with, and giving the general advice of including more detail when talking tone - we cant get in your head to see what you like, use words! We dont have to take the time to help you at all. Might be worth remembering that if you feel like being snotty.
I'm sorry mate but where in my message did it ever infer that I was being snotty. I merely replied (supposedly in a comical way) with the word mate BECAUSE you used it. I see this all over Tinternet - individuals going off on one assuming they have understood the tone of what was being said and then others joining in. That was never the intention from this callsign - it was a buckshee comment to keep the thread personable. I hope this is an end to it.
btw: I am the Sorbz62 who spent ALL my time helping others find a good tone on the BossGTCentral forum and I posted hundreds of presets for others. So please don't assume that I don't appreciate your help coz I do.
Anyway, I'll take your advice and look at changing the magnets in the N/B although I'd think that Rebel Yell/ Holy Divers/ Cold Sweat would probably fit the bill.
Yours completely chastised and at inner peace with the world!!! (only kidding - please don't put me down!!)
Jim
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND relax
Dont forget to talk to Tim about the magnet change. He knows his pickups, and if theres any reason we dont know about that means its a bad idea, he'll warn you off it.
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Hahaha - I knew you wouldn't resist!! I am now relaxed and making a BK decision - too many pickups!
Jim
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I have an idea - I think I'll put the N/Bs in my Warmoth Soloist and use the Holy Diver in that as the bridge p/u on the LP....... or can I put it in the neck of the LP? Oh no, more decisions.
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I wouldn't put a bridge HD in the neck position, way too hot and overwound.
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OK - but would it be unmanageable as the Gibson Bridge sounds good to me (in every way!) but the necky is a bit muffled, wooly or whatever you want to call it. I just wondered if I put the HD in the neck and lowered it right down.
Ta,
Jimbo
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You could try, wire it in parallel!
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What will that do? And how do I wire that?
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So what sort of music do you play exactly?
If its just general rock/hard rock, I'd recommend the Mules. I have them in an Epiphone LP Custom and it just sounds awesome for almost anything. The only thing it doesnt do too well is metal but even thats not too bad and could just be the way I dial in my amp anyway. Needs a boost for higher gain stuff though.
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OK - but would it be unmanageable as the Gibson Bridge sounds good to me (in every way!) but the necky is a bit muffled, wooly or whatever you want to call it. I just wondered if I put the HD in the neck and lowered it right down.
I don't know the specs of the Gibson HB-L, I think it's pretty high-output but the HD bridge is about 16K which is way too hot for a neck pickup (the HD neck is, I think, about 8K). Even if you set it low I think it would overpower the bridge pickup and sound ridiculously boomy/bassy.
You could try, wire it in parallel!
What will that do? And how do I wire that?
If you wired the HD neck in parallel, you'd get a thinner, lower-output, more "single-coil" like sound. It might sound good, but it won't give you a typical "neck humbucker" sound, at all. The wiring would normally be done with a mini-switch or push-pull pot to select series or parallel, but you could wire it permanently in parallel like this:
Red & White : Hot
Green, Black & Bare : Ground
Up to you, but I just don't see the point of taking a BKP pickup which is designed to be used in the bridge position, in series, and putting it in the neck position, in parallel, just because it happens to be "lying around". :?
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parallel will give you a lower output different/brighter sound, from memory it's red & white hot, black&green ground,to be sure wait for another answer
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He could try it he has nothing to loose, some like the neck in parallel!
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Fair enough, it just seems a bit of a waste of a £90 BKP to use it as "an experiment". Ending up with a bridge Holy Diver, in the neck position, in parallel, seems a long way removed from the start of this thread when the guy was looking for "a lovely warm Gary Moore-ish singing neck solo sound".
IMO, of course. :P
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I do agree with you, however it is a costless "experiment" that is quite easy to reverse!
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I play everything from jazz to blues to rock to metal. From Django to Dream Theater and from Joe Bonamassa to Trivium. I have many guitars and the Les Paul I really want to be able to use it for metal/ rock/ blues. I use my vol pot live so a hot p/u would suit I think. The N/B is great but not as gritty as I want - it has a sharp top end. That might be the guitar of course, although it's a LP Custom that weighs about 10 tons!
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I play everything from jazz to blues to rock to metal. From Django to Dream Theater and from Joe Bonamassa to Trivium. I have many guitars and the Les Paul I really want to be able to use it for metal/ rock/ blues. I use my vol pot live so a hot p/u would suit I think. The N/B is great but not as gritty as I want - it has a sharp top end. That might be the guitar of course, although it's a LP Custom that weighs about 10 tons!
HD's?
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^ you may make your mind up on a user name soon ;)
Personally I am not sure about what pickup, maybe crawler, as from the clips it is very fat. A RY might be the more modern sounding alternative?
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I don't think that the Rebel Yell would be more modern than the Crawler. They're both medium/hot.
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The N/B is great but not as gritty as I want - it has a sharp top end.
2 pages later and I still don't understand :?
what are you after?
what do you mean by gritty and what does it have to do with the sharp top end?
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Thanks lads for your useful comments.
It is very difficult to describe sounds. One man's warm is another man's muffled. One man's powerful is another man's cold.
Gritty means 'with grit, dirt, distorted in a musical way, touch responsive in a valve amp'
A sharp top end means 'overpowering brittleness in the higher end of the frequency range, less warm, powerful but somewhat unmusical'
What I mean is I want a warm but powerful pickup. The standard Gibson HB bridge sounds good - the neck sounds weak and muffled.
I am going to check out either a Holy Diver set or a Crawler set.
And yes I re-registered as I forgot I was even on the board. That's what going to Afghanistan and Iraq does to you!! :(
Cheers,
Jim
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Have you thought about emailing BKP about this? they know their pickups better than anyone else
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Or better still, phone them up and talk it through. :)
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Tim is awesome to talk to over the phone, a gentleman and a genius.
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Like I said earlier in the thread. I think a calibrated set of Crawlers is what you want.
You can listen to my posted clips of the Crawlers for some idea of what the can sound like. All played with Line 6 Pod XT.
Melodic metal solo
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=10925.0 (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=10925.0)
Paradise City - live
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3931.0 (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3931.0)
Slow blues
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=14573.0 (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=14573.0)
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Thanks lads for your useful comments.
It is very difficult to describe sounds. One man's warm is another man's muffled. One man's powerful is another man's cold.
Gritty means 'with grit, dirt, distorted in a musical way, touch responsive in a valve amp'
A sharp top end means 'overpowering brittleness in the higher end of the frequency range, less warm, powerful but somewhat unmusical'
What I mean is I want a warm but powerful pickup. The standard Gibson HB bridge sounds good - the neck sounds weak and muffled.
I am going to check out either a Holy Diver set or a Crawler set.
And yes I re-registered as I forgot I was even on the board. That's what going to Afghanistan and Iraq does to you!! :(
Cheers,
Jim
Hi Jim,
I understand every word you're saying (also about the Gibson humbuckers). My personal opinion/experience is that BKP's have a lot of top end clarity compared to most, stock/mass produced pickups. Most guitarists are used to the 'warm' (but muddy) tone of Gibson humbuckers/Duncans etc...
In my opinion BKP's are the way to go BECAUSE of the clarity and naturel tone they have. No mud; always a clear and articulate tone with a 'bright' top end.
It also depends A LOT on the individual guitar you're
using.
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As mentioned earlier, you would be better off talking to Tim direct. Great guy who clearly understands the relationship between pick up winds, magnets and wood type for a particular application.... you'll be sorted in a jiffy!
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Thanks mate - I'll do that
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It's definately between the Crawlers and Holydivers.
Your choice...
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Crawlers might be less compressed.
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Thanks lads for your useful comments.
It is very difficult to describe sounds. One man's warm is another man's muffled. One man's powerful is another man's cold.
Gritty means 'with grit, dirt, distorted in a musical way, touch responsive in a valve amp'
A sharp top end means 'overpowering brittleness in the higher end of the frequency range, less warm, powerful but somewhat unmusical'
What I mean is I want a warm but powerful pickup. The standard Gibson HB bridge sounds good - the neck sounds weak and muffled.
I am going to check out either a Holy Diver set or a Crawler set.
And yes I re-registered as I forgot I was even on the board. That's what going to Afghanistan and Iraq does to you!! :(
Cheers,
Jim
the holy diver and crawler will be warmer, but I don't think they are "gritty" in any way
they are very open and clean
maybe you might like the midrange grind of the warpig
or the cold sweat crunch, which is probably closer to your gibson (I believe the HB-L is ceramic, since it's high powered and designed by bill lawrence), but the sweat has a sharper treble than the nailbomb
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the holy diver and crawler will be warmer, but I don't think they are "gritty" in any way
they are very open and clean
I'd say the Crawler (bridge) is gritty, in the sense that it's quite a growly, grindy kind of sound. It's certainly not pretty (and that's not meant as a criticism!).
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To each his own...
Any BKP will sound great; it's just about finding the right pickups for your guitar, your playing and your set-up + every Les Paul sounds different. You can't compare a warm sounding LP Standard with an 'edgy' sounding LP Custom and so on......
The HD's sound great in my LPC.
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I just thought, how about the Emeralds? Dont get mentioned a lot but maybe they'd work well for you? I dont actually know what sort of sound they have but if its anything like Thin Lizzy as the name suggests then they're bound to be good :)
edit - the description of them sounds promising
"Street-wise savvy, powerful, warm bottom end, rich harmonics and sustain. "