Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Dreichlift on February 18, 2009, 08:14:54 PM
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Despite accidents involving guitars and pointy headstocks in the past, a back/neck problem is forcing me to lay aside my beloved Greco Les Paul Custom copy for a while and I've decided to look for an alternative guitar to use for practice and general noodling. As I haven't had a guitar with a trem for a looooong time I felt a change was in order and have been looking around for a cheap Superstrat, Floyd equipped jobbie for around £200 - £300.
So far I've narrowed my choices to the ESP LTD M-100FM or the Ibanez RG320FM. I'd appreciate some help choosing between the two as I'm no officiado on either brand.
Any other suggestions are welcome, though I'd take a lot of convincing to buy a low end Jackson as I have experienced them in the dim and distant past when I got one from Kerrang magazine (yeah I'm old I know).
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Spend a bit less and get a proper trem. The liscenced stuff on low end models will put you off floyds for life.
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I'd personally get something with a fixed bridge. Cheap super strats have cr@ppy locking trems that cause more hassle than they're worth.
How about this?
http://machinehead.co.uk/product_info.php/cPath/21_43/products_id/2275
(http://machinehead.co.uk/images/rgr421-lg1.jpg)
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I'd personally get something with a fixed bridge. Cheap super strats have cr@ppy locking trems that cause more hassle than they're worth.
How about this?
http://machinehead.co.uk/product_info.php/cPath/21_43/products_id/2275
(http://machinehead.co.uk/images/rgr421-lg1.jpg)
Hmm very tempting
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have a look into the old kramers perhaps?
i have a focus 1000 that i picked up for $250NZ (about 100 pounds), made in japan in the esp shop i believe. came with an original floyd rose and a dimarzio super distortion, swapped that out recently for a painkiller tho PDT_003
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I'd personally get something with a fixed bridge. Cheap super strats have cr@ppy locking trems that cause more hassle than they're worth.
How about this?
http://machinehead.co.uk/product_info.php/cPath/21_43/products_id/2275
(http://machinehead.co.uk/images/rgr421-lg1.jpg)
Hmm very tempting
Well if a trem isnt essential, yeah, there are plenty of fixed superstrats out there for not much money. Some are really, really good for the money too. Just play the EXACT guitar you buy. Dont get the same model of the net or anything; could be a very different animal.
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have a look into the old kramers perhaps?
i have a focus 1000 that i picked up for $250NZ (about 100 pounds), made in japan in the esp shop i believe. came with an original floyd rose and a dimarzio super distortion, swapped that out recently for a painkiller tho PDT_003
Nice looking guitar, but I'd really prefer 2 humbuckers for versatility.
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Just play the EXACT guitar you buy. Dont get the same model of the net or anything; could be a very different animal.
Sadly in the north of Scotland this isn't usually possible, though I have played the ESP and Ibanez I mentioned earlier and aside from the pickups they were quite nice...which reminds me I'd better start saving for some nailbombs too :D
This isn't going to be my main guitar so it doesn't need to be perfect and won't get much abuse. What about the possibility of retrofitting a floyd rose or upper end ibanez trem into the lower end guitars?
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Could do, Ibanez Edge trems pop up on ebay every now and again, but they're not a direct fit into the Lo Pro and Edge Pro routes. May need to route the cavity a touch bigger to accomodate it.
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Just play the EXACT guitar you buy. Dont get the same model of the net or anything; could be a very different animal.
Sadly in the north of Scotland this isn't usually possible, though I have played the ESP and Ibanez I mentioned earlier and aside from the pickups they were quite nice...which reminds me I'd better start saving for some nailbombs too :D
This isn't going to be my main guitar so it doesn't need to be perfect and won't get much abuse. What about the possibility of retrofitting a floyd rose or upper end ibanez trem into the lower end guitars?
Thats what I meant in my first post. Get a guitar with a liscenced trem and put an OFR or Gotoh or something in.
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Thats what I meant in my first post. Get a guitar with a liscenced trem and put an OFR or Gotoh or something in.
Ah ok I misunderstood and though you meant get one with a fender type trem :oops:
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I personally strongly dislike superstrats.
I dig some Fenders though and you can always hotrod those.
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Get a second hand ibanez 540 or sabre.
You will get one for £350 give or take £50
Very light as they are so thin and they are very adaptable.
I just sold mine to pay a hefty council tax bill, but I'll buy another when I get the cash again
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for a cheap superstrat, have a look at the Ibanez S series, the trems are very good (ball bearing pivots) but i think that they are a bit over your £300 budget
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I personally strongly dislike superstrats.
I dig some Fenders though and you can always hotrod those.
:o
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
:x
I love superstrats. Them and explorers. They're where its at. Oh yes.
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I'm a bit in love with this one, though it's like 5x what you wanna spend :(
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I'm a bit in love with this one, though it's like 5x what you wanna spend :(
:lol: if only I had the money to buy something at that price.
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Spend a bit less and get a proper trem. The liscenced stuff on low end models will put you off floyds for life.
+1
cheapo floyd-style trems are utterly horrible. i'm one of the biggest floyd rose-style trem fanboys in the known world, and were i given the choice of a cheapo licensed floyd or no trem, i'd pick no trem.
:)
EDIT: i thought he meant a strat-style trem too (e.g. yamaha pacifica). :lol:
the only problem with retrofitting is that it's rarely a direct swap (even if just the studs are the wrong size, but often it's more than that), and those can get awkward if (like me) you have no DIY experience. also, add the price of the "good" trem (likely to be, at very least, about £120 if not closer to £150) onto the price of a cheaper guitar and you could probably have just got a better guitar with a good trem in the first place... an ibanez rg1570 used to be about £450, though the prices have probably gone up recently, which makes things more awkward...
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I have a peavey super strat that usually goes new for around £320+ and the floyd is absolutely horrific.
Isn't there a music man guitar thats around £250 with an ORIGINAL FLOYS ROSE. You can pay that much for just a floyd alone. the guitar might be cr@p but if you upgrade later you have your original floyd rose. Or you could upgrade the guitar itself.
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I personally strongly dislike superstrats.
I dig some Fenders though and you can always hotrod those.
:o
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
:x
I love superstrats. Them and explorers. They're where its at. Oh yes.
You don't like this one? :D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/theonlywarlock/000038112.jpg)
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^ (jibidy) yeah, there was, but i think OLP have packed up now. also some bc riches around that price claim to have OFRs too, but they seem to be really rare. the ibanez s series has the ZR trem, which isn't exactly the same as a floyd, but is pretty good.
the big problem is that some trems which are being labelled as Original Floyd Roses are now being made in Korea (i think), rather than being made by Schaller in Germany. I think they're labelled as FRT-x000 trems, but not all manufacturers label them as such, often they just call them original floyd roses. I have no idea if they're as good as the german schaller-made ones, but i'd be extremely wary (apart from anything, they're moving production to save money, so they might be skimping on the quality too). they even have them on those newer charvels (which aren't exactly cheap), and allegedly on that new EVH signature guitar too (which really isn't cheap at all). i think you can tell by the shape of the saddles (the korean ones have bevelled edges, the german ones straight edges), but i'm not 100% on that.
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I personally strongly dislike superstrats.
I dig some Fenders though and you can always hotrod those.
:o
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
:x
I love superstrats. Them and explorers. They're where its at. Oh yes.
You don't like this one? :D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/theonlywarlock/000038112.jpg)
'Sokay
Its not offensive or anything. I like strats, though. Not as much as superstrats, but I do like em.
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I like my LFR :(
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I like my LFR :(
I have 2 that are OK. Not all LFRs are created equal, though.
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Well it would seem that buying a fixed bridge guitar and either upgrading or trading up at a later date seems to be the way the wind is blowing, however it would ultimatly be waaay more than I want to spend on a guitar that's just going to be used for bedroom practice and playing along with the Simpsons :D.
I was quite impressed with the RG320 and Ltd M-100 I tried, what are the problems I'm likley to encounter were I to go for one of these and if you had to choose one of the two which would you go for?
I have to admit I do like that RGR421 in lavender (I should get my head read for even considering a lavender guitar, it'll be pink paisley next :lol:)
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Maybe see if merchant city music can get you one of these? http://www.michaelkellyguitars.com/hex_xt.html
Looking at their pricing I'd imagine they could do it for just over £300.
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Maybe see if merchant city music can get you one of these? http://www.michaelkellyguitars.com/hex_xt.html
Looking at their pricing I'd imagine they could do it for just over £300.
I was actually thinking about one of those in blood red, the only drawback is the mahogany/maple body combination, I really need something lighter like alder or basswood otherwise I'll be suffering.
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^ if you think you might like it, it'd be worth a try... mahogany isn't always that heavy. EDIT: according to the link it says basswood :?
I have 2 that are OK. Not all LFRs are created equal, though.
+1. some LFRs are equal to, if not better than, OFRs (e.g. Gotoh, Schaller, Ibanez Edge etc.), while some are just horrible. i can't speak for anyone else, but when i talk about "cheapo" LFRs, I'm talking about the horrible ones (as the good LFRs generally aren't cheap).
Well it would seem that buying a fixed bridge guitar and either upgrading or trading up at a later date seems to be the way the wind is blowing, however it would ultimatly be waaay more than I want to spend on a guitar that's just going to be used for bedroom practice and playing along with the Simpsons :D.
I was quite impressed with the RG320 and Ltd M-100 I tried, what are the problems I'm likley to encounter were I to go for one of these and if you had to choose one of the two which would you go for?
I have to admit I do like that RGR421 in lavender (I should get my head read for even considering a lavender guitar, it'll be pink paisley next :lol:)
the big problem, as we've already said, is that if you use the trem much (heck, even if you don't, but more use will exacerbate it), there's a pretty good chance that the locking trems on cheaper guitars will cr@p out eventually (with "eventually" varying between a couple of months and a couple of years, most likely). the big problem is, unless it's a completely terrible trem, it probably won't be too obvious in the shop that it's a bad trem, as it'll probably hold tuning ok in the shop (unless you're used to quality locking trems, in which case you might notice a not amazing tone, lack of responsiveness etc.).
that esp is listed as having a floyd rose special bridge... not the floyd rose 1000 which the higher-end LTD 1000s have (and not the floyd rose original which the real esps have, i.e. the made in germany one, as far as i'm aware). with any luck it's not a completely horrible one, but it's probably not great either (or they'd put it on the higher-end models).
i can't find either of those ibanez models on the ibanez site, i'm assuming they have edge IIIs... again, not great. they're meant to be ok while they last, but how long it'll last is the question... i've heard some people saying they last ok, and others saying they cr@pped out on them.
it's your money, and your choice, at the end of the day. just it's only fair to warn you- if you ask me, there are some things which you can cheap out on with guitars, which can be easily replaced later- e.g. pickups. locking trems aren't really one you should be cheaping out on, if you ask me- they can spoil an otherwise good guitar, and are often a false economy into the bargain too, if you do decide to upgrade them later.
:)
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Thanks guys, you've been a great help. I'm thinking I'll go with your advice and track down a hardtail and refit it at a later date with quality hardware.
It's nice to be able to get quality advice without having to trawl through a thousand reviews by teenagers who've only been playing for 2 months or biased manufacturers advertising.
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the best superstrats are the ones you put together yourself ;)
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Oh! While I remember, Ibanez ZRs are good. Their design somewhat nullfies the need for ultra-hard knife edges, and I daresay (an educated guess) that they can tollerate much more wear than a normal fully floating trem.
Also, you can drop tune with them and they dont jack-knife and screw the other strings up.
Cleverly engineered bits of kit.
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^ yeah, the zr is meant to be good... i've tried it a little, but not enough to really formulate an opinion. what i've heard too is that the quality isn't necessarily as good as the real high quality floyds, but as you say, the design means that it doesn't really need to be. you can normally pick up an ibanez s-series for around £300-£400 with the zr attached, though prices have been rising recently :( plus the zr doesn't really feel exactly like a floyd.
Thanks guys, you've been a great help. I'm thinking I'll go with your advice and track down a hardtail and refit it at a later date with quality hardware.
It's nice to be able to get quality advice without having to trawl through a thousand reviews by teenagers who've only been playing for 2 months or biased manufacturers advertising.
just to point out, it's going to be a pain to retrofit a trem to a guitar with a hardtail (assuming that's what you mean by "quality hardware"). there's going to be a ton of routing.
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Oh! While I remember, Ibanez ZRs are good. Their design somewhat nullfies the need for ultra-hard knife edges, and I daresay (an educated guess) that they can tollerate much more wear than a normal fully floating trem.
Also, you can drop tune with them and they dont jack-knife and screw the other strings up.
Cleverly engineered bits of kit.
In theory that's true, but I've heard rumours that all that clever design has been totally wasted due to the metals they've been using to make it, now it just wears elsewhere instead of the knife edge.
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You don't like this one? :D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/theonlywarlock/000038112.jpg)
i wish you wouldnt post things like that whilst i have the money in the bank!!!
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the best superstrats are the ones you put together yourself ;)
You don't like this one? :D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/theonlywarlock/000038112.jpg)
i wish you wouldnt post things like that whilst i have the money in the bank!!!
I'm putting together one similar to that Corgan. White Warmoth body, maple Highway One neck, hardtail and torty HSS scratchplate.
(Which is pretty similar to gwEm's Jazzmaster, although that wasn't intentional. :oops: )
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Oh! While I remember, Ibanez ZRs are good. Their design somewhat nullfies the need for ultra-hard knife edges, and I daresay (an educated guess) that they can tollerate much more wear than a normal fully floating trem.
Also, you can drop tune with them and they dont jack-knife and screw the other strings up.
Cleverly engineered bits of kit.
In theory that's true, but I've heard rumours that all that clever design has been totally wasted due to the metals they've been using to make it, now it just wears elsewhere instead of the knife edge.
Hmmmm, I didnt spend enough time with it to determine that. I just worked on one, set it up.
Thanks for the heads up.
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I looked into it and I can get a a OFR trem routed and installed for £200 - £250 including the price of the trem and nut. That's kinda the way I'm thinking of going, it get's me something to play now that's not going to let me down and I can decide later weather to upgrade it or spend money one something better.
It may only be temporary anyway, and I'll be able to go back to my Greco. :)
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No need for the routing if you get something with an LFR in it anyway. Might have to drill wider post-holes (5mm is pretty standard for LFRs, 8mm for good aftermarket LFRs and OFRs), and it'll save you money all told.
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yeah, even 10-11mm for good aftermarket FRs' studs... i think my gotoh is 11mm, if i remember correctly. my lo-trs, and my kramer trem, are a lot less. like half the size (just by looking at it). :)
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the best superstrats are the ones you put together yourself ;)
Yeah, or customise - I guess my Charvel is a superstrat. Modded through necessity really.