Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Philosoful on February 20, 2009, 11:28:24 AM

Title: Strange inlay
Post by: Philosoful on February 20, 2009, 11:28:24 AM
That's going on my new 8, Nolly don't like it but hey :lol:
(http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/7216/samlamingfingerboard3mq5.jpg)
Conklin made the mock-up for me, the 'pendant' like part shall have a face inscribed on it though + there's a few alterations they're going to make but it's based on this picture:
(http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/20/l_890b3a61fccaeb19751892d811d19743.jpg)
Anyone else actually like it? :lol:
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Fourth Feline on February 20, 2009, 11:54:09 AM
Sorry,  but not my cup of tea.  Too elaborate and the balance towards the top of the fretboard looks wrong somehow.  I like markers ( however big, small or variable ) to be either :

1)  Centralised on the fingerboard

2)  On a Jazz box, acoustic  or bass perhaps - on the fretboard edges , so only the player sees them.

However, the good news is , A) I am boring - and B) The guitar will get you into the Freemasons.   :wink:
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: jpfamps on February 20, 2009, 11:57:00 AM
Sorry,  but not my cup of tea.  Too elaborate and the balance towards the top of the fretboard looks wrong somehow.  I like markers ( however big, small or variable ) to be either :

1)  Centralised on the fingerboard

2)  On a Jazz box, acoustic  or bass perhaps - on the fretboard edges , so only the player sees them.


Gretsch "thumbnails" are very cool too.
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Fourth Feline on February 20, 2009, 11:59:15 AM
Sorry,  but not my cup of tea.  Too elaborate and the balance towards the top of the fretboard looks wrong somehow.  I like markers ( however big, small or variable ) to be either :

1)  Centralised on the fingerboard

2)  On a Jazz box, acoustic  or bass perhaps - on the fretboard edges , so only the player sees them.


Gretsch "thumbnails" are very cool too.

Good point, Gretsch ''thumbnails'  are very cool ....    8)
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Philosoful on February 20, 2009, 12:15:55 PM
The balance looks wrong? What do you mean?
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Roobubba on February 20, 2009, 12:37:54 PM
Sorry, but that's way too hippy for me!
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Philosoful on February 20, 2009, 01:28:10 PM
Hahahahaaa no one likes it :lol: I love stuff at it's peaks (e.g, in heavy music, I like the heaviest music in the world, in shred style music, I like some of the fastest stuff out there/feel inspired by it) so I guess that's why. I'm not being different for the sake of being different but everyone has dots or blank fretboards and I thought I'd try something mental and I love that Nostradamus pic it's based on so yeaaah! It is kinda risky - with the guitar it might look really strange, I hope it turns out cool :)
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Fourth Feline on February 20, 2009, 02:30:20 PM
The balance looks wrong? What do you mean?

It's not symetrical, would work better if the 'V' was repeated in the opposite direction as a >0< type patern. The face ( if used ) perhaps facing the bridge.

The only reason the Gretsch asymetrical 'Thumbnails' work for me - is that they are subtle - and match the binding from which they radiate / extend from.
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Roobubba on February 20, 2009, 02:31:32 PM
On the mock-up, it looks like a badly drawn smiley with a triangular beard hanging precipitously over a circle... I realise that's just a sketch to give an idea of how it'll look, but that's all I saw (and possibly that's what it'll look like from a distance?).

Still, Go for it! The great thing about customs is being able to do what you want and saying "bollocks" to everyone else :)

Roo
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Madiac on February 20, 2009, 04:53:15 PM
The drawn bottom picture looks pretty nice and classy, but dont like how it looks on the fretboard (the above picture), so i guess its hard to incorporate, but i liked the picture, but how itll fit in depends on the rest of the guitar.
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Philosoful on February 20, 2009, 05:29:01 PM
Me too :) and +1 to the joys of custom shop!
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: noodleplugerine on February 20, 2009, 06:40:39 PM
I actually think its horrid :P
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Philosoful on February 20, 2009, 06:50:51 PM
Join the club!

Anytime anyone does anything radically different from the norm tons of people won't like it and you're all polite in you're opinions so it's all good :)but that's how new uique things are formed alot of the time. As I said, I'm not trying to be unique but I guess that's a bonus :DI'll obviously post pics once he gets it done, I think some minds might be changed once it's seen in person... then again... maybe not :lol:
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: WezV on February 20, 2009, 07:06:47 PM
i think its hard to tell withou strings on, hows that for sitting on the fence.

i think a lot of epople will be put off by the angles not matching with the inlays and the frets but personally i find that the odd contrasting line on a multiscale really helps.. people are confused by what they see anyway so why not throw some more angles in there!!

this is a good example  -
http://www.ormsbyguitars.com/galleries/gallerypics/multiscale.html

who would have thought the neck pickup would look good at an opposite angle? personally i think it really works well although i doubt i would have said that if i had seen it on paper
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: nfe on February 20, 2009, 07:30:34 PM
And B) The guitar will get you into the Freemasons.   :wink:

 :lol:
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Nolly on February 20, 2009, 08:04:14 PM
See, to me it seems like the guitar isn't being considered as a whole here. I'm all for people pushing the envelope , but this feels like it has lots of great ideas that don't really work together just thrown at it. The bar inlays I could live with (though they are going to be confusing as hell when you're playing it) but they just don't fit in with the 12th-fret inlay (as an aside, will your guitar have the perpendicular fret at the 12th? If so, then chords at the nut end will require a big twist of the wrist, and if not, you'll have to decide whether to have the inlay parallel with the surrounding frets, or perpendicular to the neck - a compromise that will look bad either way). Isn't the bright pink body and purpleheart fretboard combination going to stand out enough as it is?
Successful designs (and I don't mean just guitars here) have a focal point that the eye is drawn to, and an underlying theme or purpose. If you want to create something eye-catching then perhaps it's worth seeking a contrast to emphasise a particular area - if everything is competing for attention the impact will be lost.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that you're getting a guitar built to your exact specs, as that is the whole purpose of a custom shop after all. To me though, this is analogous to designing a supercar with a jacuzzi and helicopter pad on the back, just because you can. For your own sake, I hope you don't end up with 4 grand's worth of bawdy mess.
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Philly Q on February 20, 2009, 09:00:17 PM
this is a good example  -
http://www.ormsbyguitars.com/galleries/gallerypics/multiscale.html

who would have thought the neck pickup would look good at an opposite angle? personally i think it really works well although i doubt i would have said that if i had seen it on paper

I think that looks great - but I'd prefer a white headstock.

Ignoring that cheesy 12th-fret inlay (which almost turns it into the "bawdy mess" Nolly mentioned), I think dots along the top edge work really well  for a fanned-fret guitar like this.  They're subtle and they fit neatly in the "extra space" which is there because of the longer scale on that side.

Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Nolly on February 20, 2009, 09:14:02 PM
I think dots along the top edge work really well  for a fanned-fret guitar like this.  They're subtle and they fit neatly in the "extra space" which is there because of the longer scale on that side.
Just remember that on a fanned guitar, if you put dots on one side of the fretboard they could be completely out of position once you get to the other side of the neck.
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Philly Q on February 20, 2009, 09:21:15 PM
I think dots along the top edge work really well  for a fanned-fret guitar like this.  They're subtle and they fit neatly in the "extra space" which is there because of the longer scale on that side.
Just remember that on a fanned guitar, if you put dots on one side of the fretboard they could be completely out of position once you get to the other side of the neck.

You mean in the sense of actually providing a useful guide to where you are on the neck?  I guess it would be the same if you had no markers on the board and relied on the top-side markers.

Maybe markers on both sides then.
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Nolly on February 20, 2009, 09:40:56 PM

You mean in the sense of actually providing a useful guide to where you are on the neck?  I guess it would be the same if you had no markers on the board and relied on the top-side markers.

Maybe markers on both sides then.

Yeah exactly, the side dots are great help when you're around the area where the fret angles are at their mildest, but they don't offer much assistance when you're playing high up the neck, though one does learn to adjust to an extent. If I were to have markers, I'd probably put them in the middle of the neck's width - at the average position as it were. I think markers on both sides could possibly just double the confusion.  :?
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Roobubba on February 21, 2009, 10:51:28 AM
I don't find it difficult to know where I am on the fretboard with just markers on the side of the neck. And with the perpendicular fret at the 7th on my guitar, the fanning is most pronounced high up (more so than on a 12th-perp multiscale), and I still don't find it an issue!
Your mind just adapts.

In fact, I only just twigged when opening this thread up again today that the picture in the first post has on parallel frets - it kind of seems natural to me, now! Guitars with parallel frets just don't do it for me any more!

Agreed about the potential issue of parallel inlay vs non parallel frets - could be a bit strange aesthetically!

Roo
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: WezV on February 21, 2009, 11:10:01 AM
i put the dots down the top edge on my first fanned fret and i dont think it is a confusing position at all - it probably helps that you are looking down at the guitar but as roo says - the mind adapts quite easily... actually a lot better if you dont look too much :)
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Nolly on February 21, 2009, 11:42:16 AM
I don't find it difficult to know where I am on the fretboard with just markers on the side of the neck. And with the perpendicular fret at the 7th on my guitar, the fanning is most pronounced high up (more so than on a 12th-perp multiscale), and I still don't find it an issue!
Your mind just adapts.

In fact, I only just twigged when opening this thread up again today that the picture in the first post has on parallel frets - it kind of seems natural to me, now! Guitars with parallel frets just don't do it for me any more!

Agreed about the potential issue of parallel inlay vs non parallel frets - could be a bit strange aesthetically!

Roo
I'm just going on my experiences - I've been borrowing a Blackmachine F8 for the last fortnight.
The point about having the perpendicular fret nearer the nut is that that way it matches the way one's hand naturally arcs as you move up and down the fretboard. The frets will get more severe at the top end, but will match the natural angle of your wrist so are completely comfortable. Your perpendicular 7th fret will be exactly like this I'm sure.
With the 12th fret perpendicular, for most comfort, the ergonomics will require that your elbow's natural position is directly behind the 12th fret, so that your forearm meets the neck at a perpendicular angle. That isn't natural to me, and would optimise an area I use for chording less often than lower on the fretboard.
Just my tuppence though  :)
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Nolly on February 21, 2009, 11:42:43 AM
the mind adapts quite easily... actually a lot better if you dont look too much :)

Absolutely agreed  :)
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Philosoful on February 21, 2009, 09:04:42 PM
people are confused by what they see anyway so why not throw some more angles in there!!

Hahahaaa :lol: well it's got side dots still...

See, to me it seems like the guitar isn't being considered as a whole here. I'm all for people pushing the envelope , but this feels like it has lots of great ideas that don't really work together just thrown at it. The bar inlays I could live with (though they are going to be confusing as hell when you're playing it) but they just don't fit in with the 12th-fret inlay (as an aside, will your guitar have the perpendicular fret at the 12th? If so, then chords at the nut end will require a big twist of the wrist, and if not, you'll have to decide whether to have the inlay parallel with the surrounding frets, or perpendicular to the neck - a compromise that will look bad either way). Isn't the bright pink body and purpleheart fretboard combination going to stand out enough as it is?
Successful designs (and I don't mean just guitars here) have a focal point that the eye is drawn to, and an underlying theme or purpose. If you want to create something eye-catching then perhaps it's worth seeking a contrast to emphasise a particular area - if everything is competing for attention the impact will be lost.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that you're getting a guitar built to your exact specs, as that is the whole purpose of a custom shop after all. To me though, this is analogous to designing a supercar with a jacuzzi and helicopter pad on the back, just because you can. For your own sake, I hope you don't end up with 4 grand's worth of bawdy mess.

You're opinion is just that - an opinion, but you've judged quite abit of my 'frame of mind' whilst making this guitar - it is being considered as a whole - I've had friends photoshop pickup colours for me, drawn fret designs to see what they look like, researched what materials would look best/ask Conklin for their opinion for inlays etc. As if I would spend this much money on a guitar without thinking through every fine detail.

For the 'confusing' bar inlays - playing a fretless is confusing - getting an 8 string shall be confusing - you learn. I'm not going to compromise something that I think will look cool because it'll be harder. Simularly, I don't compromise my guitars string sizes by taking whatever is the easiest to play, I use what I think sounds best to my ear.

The 12th fret is vertical, I don't know if it's perfectly so but I have looked at the other guitars he's done of the same scale length and they are fine - again, I've already considered that problem.

Stand out enough? It's cool for a guitar to stand out but is that what you think I'm thinking when I'm planning my design? I'm getting the inlay because I like it. Simple as.

Successful designs? Again, I'm not having this guitar made please anyone other than myself. Simularly you're philosophy on what constitutes a 'successful design' is, once more, an opinion and thus could be something completely different for someone else.

In reference to helipad/jacuzziness. As much as I'm getting alot done to this guitar - it's only stuff that appeals to me and nothing is 'for the sake of it'.

Mike edited the pic so the moons curve more and so the thing that 'hangs' the circle on the 12th fret = thinner and thus:
(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/7231/samlamingfingerboardnwe.jpg)
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Perandor on February 21, 2009, 09:23:56 PM
I like the picture idea, just not the altered idea.  I haven't played any fanned fret guitars, so I have no experience in that regards, otherwise, it's cool, and will get you into the Freemasons, ha!
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Philosoful on February 21, 2009, 09:55:56 PM
You like the Nostradamus picture but not the 'altered' one? - as in my adaptation to apply it to the fretboard?
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Nolly on February 21, 2009, 11:59:23 PM
You're opinion is just that - an opinion, but you've judged quite abit of my 'frame of mind' whilst making this guitar - it is being considered as a whole - I've had friends photoshop pickup colours for me, drawn fret designs to see what they look like, researched what materials would look best/ask Conklin for their opinion for inlays etc. As if I would spend this much money on a guitar without thinking through every fine detail.

For the 'confusing' bar inlays - playing a fretless is confusing - getting an 8 string shall be confusing - you learn. I'm not going to compromise something that I think will look cool because it'll be harder. Simularly, I don't compromise my guitars string sizes by taking whatever is the easiest to play, I use what I think sounds best to my ear.

The 12th fret is vertical, I don't know if it's perfectly so but I have looked at the other guitars he's done of the same scale length and they are fine - again, I've already considered that problem.

Stand out enough? It's cool for a guitar to stand out but is that what you think I'm thinking when I'm planning my design? I'm getting the inlay because I like it. Simple as.

Successful designs? Again, I'm not having this guitar made please anyone other than myself. Simularly you're philosophy on what constitutes a 'successful design' is, once more, an opinion and thus could be something completely different for someone else.

In reference to helipad/jacuzziness. As much as I'm getting alot done to this guitar - it's only stuff that appeals to me and nothing is 'for the sake of it'.

Cool, we're obviously both quite opinionated, and clearly you've thought things through, I'll hold my tongue over it in future.
Though saying "Simularly, I don't compromise my guitars string sizes by taking whatever is the easiest to play, I use what I think sounds best to my ear" made me chuckle, if you're referring to what I think you are. Ironically, I actually prefer the feel of heavier strings, but it's listening that convinced me to go lighter.
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Philosoful on February 22, 2009, 10:32:08 PM
Haha, how funny. I love the resonance that huge strings give, or the tightness of them I think it what makes it. You get a more 'percusive' sound on lighter strings in my opinion.

I don't really state my opinion much - I don't think this is an opinion but I dislike people saying opinions as though they are facts and if you're stating you're opinion on something you dislike I think abit of tact is polite - if you love a band for example, who's ever cared to read of anyone saying something like 'I really don't like them, they're this and that, they are utterly boring'? I guess that's what I've asked for to a degree by putting it up on here but I guess the size of you're argument against something which is indeed nothing more than an opinion seemed abit silly.
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: broken cord on February 23, 2009, 01:13:04 AM
Sorry,  but not my cup of tea.  Too elaborate and the balance towards the top of the fretboard looks wrong somehow.  I like markers ( however big, small or variable ) to be either :

 B) The guitar will get you into the Freemasons.   :wink:

Too funny and yet sad at the same time.

The inlays just seems wrong to me.
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Philosoful on April 27, 2009, 08:55:51 AM
BUMP.

Well, here it is:
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1331/bodywithneck.jpg)
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/764/inlays.jpg)
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6005/bodyneck2s.jpg)
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: FernandoDuarte on April 27, 2009, 02:16:08 PM
Like the contrast of Purpleheart and maple :D
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Philosoful on April 27, 2009, 04:10:38 PM
That maple shant be so in colour for much longer - magenta celophane stain coming in time :lol:
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: FernandoDuarte on April 27, 2009, 04:35:50 PM
magenta is purple??
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Philly Q on April 27, 2009, 08:59:16 PM
I'm not sure about the inlays, but the purpleheart is beautiful!  :)

Does anyone know if purpleheart keeps its colour, or does it get "browner" with age (like padouk/padauk)?
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: FernandoDuarte on April 27, 2009, 10:37:10 PM
If I'm right it keep it looks... Well, the blank I've for a year or more is still same color :)
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Philosoful on April 28, 2009, 08:24:15 AM
magenta is purple??

*nods* like this but celophane (shiney.glossy), not satin:
(http://www.zackuidl.com/images/zu/custom_8_string.jpg)

I'm not sure about the inlays, but the purpleheart is beautiful!  :)

Does anyone know if purpleheart keeps its colour, or does it get "browner" with age (like padouk/padauk)?

From the Wiki:

'The trees are prized for their beautiful heartwood which, when cut, quickly turns from a dark brown to a rich purple color. Exposure to ultraviolet (UV) light darkens the wood to a brown color with a slight hue of the original purple. This effect can be minimized with a finish containing a UV inhibitor'
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Philly Q on April 28, 2009, 09:17:44 AM
I'm not sure about the inlays, but the purpleheart is beautiful!  :)

Does anyone know if purpleheart keeps its colour, or does it get "browner" with age (like padouk/padauk)?

From the Wiki:

'The trees are prized for their beautiful heartwood which, when cut, quickly turns from a dark brown to a rich purple color. Exposure to ultraviolet (UV) light darkens the wood to a brown color with a slight hue of the original purple. This effect can be minimized with a finish containing a UV inhibitor'


Thanks for that!  :D 

Now, I wonder where I can get a finish containing a UV inhibitor?
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: WezV on April 28, 2009, 09:48:27 AM
the UV finish will not prevent it completely... and some purpleheart stays purple even without a finish.

i dont use it much as the main attraction seems to be the colour -  and that can be inconsistent and often changes.  it is also very stiff and hard which is one reason i do use it occasionaly.  it is a good wood for guitars - just a shame when people get drawn in by the colour and then it fades out

if you want a purple guitar - spray it purple. 
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Philly Q on April 28, 2009, 11:06:21 AM
i dont use it much as the main attraction seems to be the colour -  and that can be inconsistent and often changes.  it is a good wood for guitars - just a shame when people get drawn in by the colour and then it fades out

if you want a purple guitar - spray it purple. 

I was just thinking it might look good as a one-piece neck on my purple sunburst Strat body.  But you're right, it would be primarily for the colour.  If it's going to end up turning brown maybe it's best to just stick with maple.
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Philosoful on April 28, 2009, 02:04:02 PM
Well look at the difference between mine and:
(http://bestdiscountflooring.com/wood_swatch/purpleheart/purpleheart_PHOTO.jpg)
Conklin neck laminates = purpleheart too. My fretboard = figured purpleheart.
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Oli on April 28, 2009, 05:38:47 PM
The purpleheart i've got in my neck laminates of a couple of builds is going a browner colour- it's starting to blend in with the padauk next to it. Philly: it's really hard too, so making a neck from it would be loads of work!

I like that flame in the purpleheart fretboard, don't often see that :)
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Philly Q on April 28, 2009, 06:29:52 PM
The purpleheart i've got in my neck laminates of a couple of builds is going a browner colour- it's starting to blend in with the padauk next to it. Philly: it's really hard too, so making a neck from it would be loads of work!

I wouldn't be doing it myself, that would be a guaranteed disaster!  I was thinking of a custom order from Warmoth.  I might still do it, it sounds like a good wood anyway... and depending on the colour it fades to, it might still look OK.
Title: Re: Strange inlay
Post by: Philosoful on April 29, 2009, 07:51:05 AM
Yeah apparently it's a bit of a tool slaughter-er. Like Snakewood.