Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Gizmo on February 21, 2009, 09:51:14 PM
-
Ive been saving up for a prs for a while. the new price increases are massive. the DGT i liked was £2200 now £2900.mental. :(
-
You sure?
http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/electric_guitars_detail.asp?stock=08081212353628&guitars=
http://www.dv247.com/invt/58092/
-
Depends on spec - birds and 10 tops will up the price a lot of course.
Here's one at a great price of £1999: http://www.peachideas.com/acatalog/PRS_DGT_David_Grissom_Goldtop_with_Moons__1999.html
(http://www.peachideas.com/acatalog/DGTGOLDTOPFRONT.jpg)
-
You've always been cheaper importing PRS than buying here, the mark-up is insane. But obviously the play-before-you-buy thing is a killer.
Current stock shouldn't go up in price, if it does it's just shops being sneaky, but anything that's being ordered currently by dealers WILL have significantly higher prices.
-
Buy second hand... seriously...
-
Ive been saving up for a prs for a while. the new price increases are massive. the DGT i liked was £2200 now £2900.mental. :(
See it positive, according to TF it means it's now 700 GBP better than before!
:D
-
But of course it is! Are you stupid or something? Duh!
;)
:lol:
-
http://www.guitars4you.co.uk/guitars/2624.htm#
£2875. All the ones you've listed are pre price rise guitars. I like the birds + 10 top tobacco colour. These are the new ones in at the new prices. They used to be £2200
-
I think I used to see DGTs with birds around the £2200-£2300 mark. Can't remember seeing a 10 top AND birds model before so I don't know pricing on those. Seems like a big price jump though, but I know prices in the US have gone up 20%. Then there's the exchange rate :(
-
Better start saving I guess.
-
Duh, there are a number of contributors to this forum who could and would build you something a bloody sight better than a PRS for a bloody sight less :)
-
Duh, there are a number of contributors to this forum who could and would build you something a bloody sight better than a PRS for a bloody sight less :)
What are your prices these days? £1400?
-
Duh, there are a number of contributors to this forum who could and would build you something a bloody sight better than a PRS for a bloody sight less :)
What are your prices these days? £1400?
Can't do a flame top and inlays for that price but it wouldn't be too much more depending on the grade of top and complexity of the inlays.
-
Duh, there are a number of contributors to this forum who could and would build you something a bloody sight better than a PRS for a bloody sight less :)
Better how? It's all subjective isn't it? One man's meat is another's poison etc :)
-
Duh, there are a number of contributors to this forum who could and would build you something a bloody sight better than a PRS for a bloody sight less :)
Better how? It's all subjective isn't it? One man's meat is another's poison etc :)
You have a point Twinfan and I'll apologise to all the PRS fans out there; sorry.
I guess I'm a bit biased toward hand builts and guitars that are made for individuals rather than mass markets. The original post was about price and it's that, that really erks me. This is not confined to PRS as you all know; guitars that are mass produced being pedaled for hand made prices; they're just a cash cow for everyone in the chain from factory to high street. Take away that chain and you can put a lot more into a guitar for the same price or reduce the price.
I know that as soon as you start machining parts and painting guitars in batches the cost of production plummets. I know because we're planning to do just that this year with a brand new Legra PG600 but in this case the savings will be passed on to the customer.
-
I agree with you Bob. Marketing and brand image are a big factor in pricing, as are exchange rates. I feel the same about Matchless amps if it's any consolation! :lol:
If the customer will pay the price, that's the market rate......
-
Re Matchless amps, I can't think of any production amp that uses a more expensive construction method.....
Also their pricing policy hasn't stopped them going bust on several occasions.
-
Ive been saving up for a prs for a while. the new price increases are massive. the DGT i liked was £2200 now £2900.mental. :(
Think I'd rather have 6 second hand Partick Eggles instead :D
-
Re Matchless amps, I can't think of any production amp that uses a more expensive construction method.....
Also their pricing policy hasn't stopped them going bust on several occasions.
~Did they, I didn't hear about this! Any info on this anywhere please?
-
I know because we're planning to do just that this year with a brand new Legra PG600 but in this case the savings will be passed on to the customer.
really? sounds interesting! tell us more...
-
Matchless went bust in the late 1990s and were out of production for a while.
They started up again without one of the original founders, Mark Sampson. As a result there is now some BS regarding having a "Sampson Era" Matchless!
Talking to a couple of amp manufactures from the US, is sounds like they expanded to service the burgeoning Japanese market, which collapsed, and that they had warrantee issues with their early production amps due to the filter caps overheating (not surprising seeing as they were using 65°C rated Sprague Atoms).
I really like to sound of all the Matchless amps I've played through, however they can be a real pig to work on.
The method they use for construction must be the hardest to implement correctly of any current amp manufacturer, and I would personally not chose this method regardless of price consideration.
-
I know because we're planning to do just that this year with a brand new Legra PG600 but in this case the savings will be passed on to the customer.
really? sounds interesting! tell us more...
It's a new body style, a little more RG-ish than the current one but the body and neck will be machined rather than hand made. Standard equipment will be a Kahler Pro series trem, Gotoh 381 tuners and BKP's. We'll still offer a limited range of options like fret profile, finger board radius and material on the base model; of course fully customised variants will also be available at additional cost.
-
Buy second hand... seriously...
Absolutely. Go and lurk on birdsandmoons as there are always interesting instruments being passed around there! It's where I got my CuRo AP. There are also good deals to be had in the UK as the used PRS market has absolutely tanked recently.
The only thing is that the £/$ rate isn't as good as it used to be... :(
As for the production/luthier argument, yeah, getting a local (UK) build would be nice but it isn't a PRS, and if it's PRS specifically that floats the OP's boat.... Take that whatever way you like! :D
-
that's very interesting, bob. when you say "machined" do you mean totally machined, or started off with machines and finished off by hand? what kind of options do you mean- can you choose the type of neck joint style, pickup layout etc.? and most importantly, what kind of prices (if you don't mind my asking, and if you've even decided on price yet!)? :lol:
I agree with you Bob. Marketing and brand image are a big factor in pricing, as are exchange rates. I feel the same about Matchless amps if it's any consolation! :lol:
If the customer will pay the price, that's the market rate......
agreed. what really annoys me with a lot of customers, though, is that instead of banding together and saying, "that's too dear, we won't pay that", there are always sufficient numbers of eejits (not talking about you personally, dave, i mean in general) willing to pay the price.
was a similar thing with the housing boom- look what's happening now. Granted that's an enforced cut in demand (i.e. no jobs and credit), but it does somewhat make a mockery of the "that's what things cost, you'll just have to pay it" argument put forward by all the big companies a lot of the time...
Think I'd rather have 6 second hand Partick Eggles instead :D
+1, exactly. and you can get ebony fretboards with eggles too, if that floats your boat... :lol:
-
Duh, there are a number of contributors to this forum who could and would build you something a bloody sight better than a PRS for a bloody sight less :)
Better how? It's all subjective isn't it? One man's meat is another's poison etc :)
You have a point Twinfan and I'll apologise to all the PRS fans out there; sorry.
I guess I'm a bit biased toward hand builts and guitars that are made for individuals rather than mass markets. The original post was about price and it's that, that really erks me. This is not confined to PRS as you all know; guitars that are mass produced being pedaled for hand made prices; they're just a cash cow for everyone in the chain from factory to high street. Take away that chain and you can put a lot more into a guitar for the same price or reduce the price.
I know that as soon as you start machining parts and painting guitars in batches the cost of production plummets. I know because we're planning to do just that this year with a brand new Legra PG600 but in this case the savings will be passed on to the customer.
The shops aren't really making much on PRS, their markup is extremely low, when I was checking up on proces when I worked at Soundcontrol, I could have imported any PRS from the states, getting hit with maximum tax and a hefty shipping bill, cheaper than Soundcontrol could buy the same one at trade.
Incidentally, the first time I slagged PRS on this forum, i was over the "hand made prices for machine made guitars" and I got nothing but derision. :lol:
-
that's very interesting, bob. when you say "machined" do you mean totally machined, or started off with machines and finished off by hand? what kind of options do you mean- can you choose the type of neck joint style, pickup layout etc.? and most importantly, what kind of prices (if you don't mind my asking, and if you've even decided on price yet!)? :lol:
Hi Dave, I really don't want to turn this thread into a marketing exercise so I'm not going to talk about prices here. The parts are chopped out on a CNC machine and finished by hand. To keep the price down the options have to be limited. We're gonna kick off with a rear routed HH layout and offer a front/rear routed HSH or HSS layout later. The neck will be a bolt on. I'll email you more info if you like.
-
The shops aren't really making much on PRS, their markup is extremely low, when I was checking up on proces when I worked at Soundcontrol, I could have imported any PRS from the states, getting hit with maximum tax and a hefty shipping bill, cheaper than Soundcontrol could buy the same one at trade.
The owners of PMT were quoted in the MI News last year as saying "you can't operate a retail business on 25%". This was in connection with the Gibson distribution deal but was a general comment about the fragmented grey import situation and internet shops. They wanted to see 33% between trade and RRP. Do you think they make an exception for PRS then? :D
-
The shops aren't really making much on PRS, their markup is extremely low, when I was checking up on proces when I worked at Soundcontrol, I could have imported any PRS from the states, getting hit with maximum tax and a hefty shipping bill, cheaper than Soundcontrol could buy the same one at trade.
The owners of PMT were quoted in the MI News last year as saying "you can't operate a retail business on 25%". This was in connection with the Gibson distribution deal but was a general comment about the fragmented grey import situation and internet shops. They wanted to see 33% between trade and RRP. Do you think they make an exception for PRS then? :D
And look what happened to Soundcontrol.........
-
The shops aren't really making much on PRS, their markup is extremely low, when I was checking up on proces when I worked at Soundcontrol, I could have imported any PRS from the states, getting hit with maximum tax and a hefty shipping bill, cheaper than Soundcontrol could buy the same one at trade.
The owners of PMT were quoted in the MI News last year as saying "you can't operate a retail business on 25%". This was in connection with the Gibson distribution deal but was a general comment about the fragmented grey import situation and internet shops. They wanted to see 33% between trade and RRP. Do you think they make an exception for PRS then? :D
There's still a markup obviously, which on guitars above the £1000 mark usually sat around 25% in my experience, PRS were particularly low markup, Gibson too. Far, far smaller than Fender, for instance.
I just think the bulk of the markup over US prices is at the hands of the distributor rather than dealer.
-
Bob - when do you expect to have the new Legras up on your site?
Mark.
-
I know because we're planning to do just that this year with a brand new Legra PG600 but in this case the savings will be passed on to the customer.
really? sounds interesting! tell us more...
It's a new body style, a little more RG-ish than the current one but the body and neck will be machined rather than hand made. Standard equipment will be a Kahler Pro series trem, Gotoh 381 tuners and BKP's. We'll still offer a limited range of options like fret profile, finger board radius and material on the base model; of course fully customised variants will also be available at additional cost.
this isn't going to affect your custom guitar shop stuff right? Cause I still have some more guitar-related projects to order from you :(
-
There's still a markup obviously, which on guitars above the £1000 mark usually sat around 25% in my experience, PRS were particularly low markup, Gibson too. Far, far smaller than Fender, for instance.
I just think the bulk of the markup over US prices is at the hands of the distributor rather than dealer.
You're probably right to a certain extent but I was talking about the complete marketing chain if you recall; i.e. the cost differential between manufacturing costs and RRP. In the final analysis it doesn't really matter who is making the big bucks out of it; the question is, is your money paying for hardware or image, marketing costs, distribution and image.
-
Hi Dave, I really don't want to turn this thread into a marketing exercise so I'm not going to talk about prices here. The parts are chopped out on a CNC machine and finished by hand. To keep the price down the options have to be limited. We're gonna kick off with a rear routed HH layout and offer a front/rear routed HSH or HSS layout later. The neck will be a bolt on. I'll email you more info if you like.
that'd be cool, bob, if you'd send me the info in an e-mail that'd be great.
don't want to take this off-topic either, so...
You're probably right to a certain extent but I was talking about the complete marketing chain if you recall; i.e. the cost differential between manufacturing costs and RRP. In the final analysis it doesn't really matter who is making the big bucks out of it; the question is, is your money paying for hardware or image, marketing costs, distribution and image.
i agree. i feel bad for the shops if they're being forced into high prices because of the distributor, i realise that it's not necessarily the shop which is making the big bucks- but if someone is, that means poor value. and i'm not going to buy something which i think is poor value.
:)
-
I know because we're planning to do just that this year with a brand new Legra PG600 but in this case the savings will be passed on to the customer.
really? sounds interesting! tell us more...
It's a new body style, a little more RG-ish than the current one but the body and neck will be machined rather than hand made. Standard equipment will be a Kahler Pro series trem, Gotoh 381 tuners and BKP's. We'll still offer a limited range of options like fret profile, finger board radius and material on the base model; of course fully customised variants will also be available at additional cost.
this isn't going to affect your custom guitar shop stuff right? Cause I still have some more guitar-related projects to order from you :(
No it won't affect anything other than the really extreme one offs. We won't stop doing the weird and wonderful but we're gonna have to start charging realistic prices for the hundreds of hours spent on design work, chasing down and importing obscure parts and systems and the huge amount of electronic design work that goes into integrating some of the effects that we install. It's just that we want to get a product out there that fulfills the needs and aspirations of the huge volume of people who are prepared to pay a little more for something special without breaking the bank. The commitment to quality will not waver one inch.
-
There's still a markup obviously, which on guitars above the £1000 mark usually sat around 25% in my experience, PRS were particularly low markup, Gibson too. Far, far smaller than Fender, for instance.
I just think the bulk of the markup over US prices is at the hands of the distributor rather than dealer.
You're probably right to a certain extent but I was talking about the complete marketing chain if you recall; i.e. the cost differential between manufacturing costs and RRP. In the final analysis it doesn't really matter who is making the big bucks out of it; the question is, is your money paying for hardware or image, marketing costs, distribution and image.
Oh absolutely, I'm 100% on the side of GENIUNE handbuilt guitars for handbuilt prices and costs of all instruments reflecting the cost of manufacture. The high end major builders really wind me up in that regard, especially those with endless amounts of marketing and "factory shots" without a CNC in sight.
Obviously I'm superduper left wing, and follow this ideal throughout all industry and commerce. Hence why I download virtually all music :lol:
-
There's still a markup obviously, which on guitars above the £1000 mark usually sat around 25% in my experience, PRS were particularly low markup, Gibson too. Far, far smaller than Fender, for instance.
I just think the bulk of the markup over US prices is at the hands of the distributor rather than dealer.
You're probably right to a certain extent but I was talking about the complete marketing chain if you recall; i.e. the cost differential between manufacturing costs and RRP. In the final analysis it doesn't really matter who is making the big bucks out of it; the question is, is your money paying for hardware or image, marketing costs, distribution and image.
Oh absolutely, I'm 100% on the side of GENIUNE handbuilt guitars for handbuilt prices and costs of all instruments reflecting the cost of manufacture. The high end major builders really wind me up in that regard, especially those with endless amounts of marketing and "factory shots" without a CNC in sight.
Obviously I'm superduper left wing, and follow this ideal throughout all industry and commerce. Hence why I download virtually all music :lol:
oh but your depriving yourself of the beauty of unwrapping a new cd, closing your eyes and listening to it the first time track by track like the artist intended. It was a marvelous experience for the last radiohead album and I can't wait for the next one :)
-
oh but your depriving yourself of the beauty of unwrapping a new cd, closing your eyes and listening to it the first time track by track like the artist intended. It was a marvelous experience for the last radiohead album and I can't wait for the next one :)
No, because I get that x10 when I buy the records I REALLY like on vinyl. :wink: (I'll only buy it straight from bands though)
Other than that and buying records at gigs from small bands when I know the money's going in their pocket, I don't buy music. The industry is an absolute disgrace regards pricing and fair deals to bands.
Obviously the likes of Radiohead can do their fair, pay what you like things, nice and caring when you;re already millionaires :lol:
-
I'm the same, I've not bought music since I found audiogalaxy(ten years ago?) :lol: :lol:
-
Duh, there are a number of contributors to this forum who could and would build you something a bloody sight better than a PRS for a bloody sight less :)
I have to agree.
I have lusted after PRS for years - tempted by their beauty, the promise of their specs and the esteeem in which they are held. I've got to the stage of walking into shops, with money in my pocket (well, on the credit card balance anyway!), with the total intention of buying a specific model off the racks.
I've sat down with them, I've played them, I've admired their beauty up close ... but I've not connected with them. Which has really disappointed me!
Right now, I'm doing just as Bob suggested, and there's a box of bits and materials, with my name on it, sat in the workshop of an independent builder ... I'll get exactly what I want, a 1-off, but without a very expensive logo!
-
I've sat down with them, I've played them, I've admired their beauty up close ... but I've not connected with them. Which has really disappointed me!
If they don't suit you, they don't suit you. 'tis true they're not for everyone :)
What are you having built???
-
What are you having built???
thru necked, mahogany winged, maple capped, BKPs + piezo, with a couple of "distinguishing features" which would reveal all if I described them :wink:
There may well be a build thread here in due course ...
-
Sounds interesting!
Who's building it?
-
Sounds interesting!
Who's building it?
I'll ask him if he wants to post a work-in-progress thread here ...
-
just say its multiscale and denim blue and they will know its me!! ;)
-
Cool!
-
just say its multiscale and denim blue and they will know its me!! ;)
:D
You haven't started a build thread, have you ???
-
i will do a build thread if people want it - nothing to hide here :P
-
Go for it ... just don't let it delay the build schedule :lol:
-
schedule
:?
whats a schedule??
:P
-
BUILD THREAD!!!
-
i knew you would say that!
-
i knew you would say that!
Are you going to start it, or are you waiting for me to?
-
looks like roo beat us to it!!
-
http://www.guitars4you.co.uk/guitars/2624.htm#
£2875. All the ones you've listed are pre price rise guitars. I like the birds + 10 top tobacco colour. These are the new ones in at the new prices. They used to be £2200
Hey Gizmo - is this up your street????? Tobacco Burst DGT with a 10 top and birds ;)
http://www.peachideas.com/acatalog/PRS_DGT_Tobacco_sunburst_10_top__2650.html
(http://www.peachideas.com/acatalog/dgttsb10.jpg)
-
its a lovely guitar. I was looking at DGT's before i got my PRS.
I have played that exact guitar. It was very very nice but I really love the rose wood neck on my mccarty. if they did that with a rosewood neck it would be something i would consider in the future. The more i play my mccarty the more i like it.
-
the dgt was in the running when I went prs shopping until I played it, it sounded good but I thought it felt like cack, the one I played had really high action and felt like the finish was made from jizz
-
I almost cried when I say a CE22 not sell on Ebay for £600 yesterday! If only I had £600!!!!
-
I almost cried when I say a CE22 not sell on Ebay for £600 yesterday! If only I had £600!!!!
Saw a Vigier Excalibur go for £699 with only 1 bid...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vigier-Excalibur-Custom-Guitar-super-strat_W0QQitemZ260391499274QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item260391499274&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1688|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318
I feel SOOOO bad for the guy who was selling it.. Gutted :(
-
must be why my gear aint selling, there's no way I'd take such a loss I'd rather however long it takes to sell
-
If I had the money I would have gone for it even though I have no need for another 6 string. A Vigier at under a grand is just insanely cheap.
-
i thought the strat-style ones were £999 new? at least they used to be...
-
i thought the strat-style ones were £999 new? at least they used to be...
I think they're arond £1500.
But maybe I should have said an excalibur for under £1000 is a bargain. That custom retails at 2600 according to the site i'm looking at now.
-
jeez. maybe the prices have shot up recently or something. I think that one which was listed used to go for around £1500 or so (list)... the ultra blues was around the £2k mark, though.
-
jeez. maybe the prices have shot up recently or something. I think that one which was listed used to go for around £1500 or so (list)... the ultra blues was around the £2k mark, though.
Hmmm ultra blues is cheaper than the excalibur custom?