Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Andrew W on February 22, 2009, 12:00:12 PM

Title: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: Andrew W on February 22, 2009, 12:00:12 PM: Hi guys and gals. I'm on the search for a new amp for the house. Currently I have a Cornell Plexi Seven which I absolutely love for its rich overdrive and British amp grit. It isn't so hot for cleaner 6V6 type sounds of course. So now I've nearly finished modifying my Highway One Strat to my preferences I'm looking for a cleaner, tweedier amp to use when I'm not in the mood for full on Robin Trower face-melting guitar tone.

There are a few restrictions on what I can have: first it has to physically quite small - I live in a small flat and space is at a premium. Second, it has to be low wattage so I can get a decent noise without the neighbours hunting me down with pitch-forks and flaming torches. The final restriction is price; I don't really want to (for which read, "I really shouldn't") spend more than a grand on it.

There are two candidates I've found myself, one is Cornell's Romany Plus (http://"http://www.dc-developments.com/cornell_romany_plus_combo.htm") and the other is the Swart Space Tone (http://swartamps.com/amplifiers_tweed_tone_6v6se.htm"). Is there anything else that meets the criteria out there that you think I should try? At present no-one has a Swart or a Cornell in stock so I'm twiddling my thumbs and waiting. Thanks very much for any advice you have.
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: Twinfan on February 22, 2009, 12:07:54 PM: It sounds to me that something along the lines of a Fender Tweed Champ would suit you? Great clean sound at reasonable volume, one volume/one tone control and a 8" speaker. Small, compact and home friendly?
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: roland_rat on February 22, 2009, 12:43:41 PM: I have a Cornell Romany unfornatly it is not the plus. Its a great little amp but it really is crying out for built in reverb. If you do go for Cornell make sure you pay the extra and get the Romany plus. I can not comment on the other amp you mentioned only that I found the romany reliable.

One other possibility may be to have a amp made to your spec. Pheraps martamp or matamp maybe. I would have thought they would both be able to make somthing to fit your requiremnts and be in the price range.

Best of luck
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: Adam.M on February 22, 2009, 01:44:03 PM: Quote from: roland_rat on February 22, 2009, 12:43:41 PM
I have a Cornell Romany unfornatly it is not the plus. Its a great little amp but it really is crying out for built in reverb. If you do go for Cornell make sure you pay the extra and get the Romany plus. I can not comment on the other amp you mentioned only that I found the romany reliable.

If you need it that badly (and i would too, i need a touch of verb!) why not ask him to turn yours into a reverb model? surely he would do it... or someone could put a loop or something in there.
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: Madiac on February 22, 2009, 02:19:44 PM: Theres a guy at ebay (andydokken) who mods amps and adds powerscaling aswell as many other functions and sells them on Ebay, they go really cheap aswell. Saw a tweed style amp there at 5w (with powerscaling ofcourse) for around 400 GBP, but i think it got sold, but you can ask him when hes putting up another one, ive ordered a modded Epi clone from him, so i can tell you how it works out if your curious.
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: dave_mc on February 22, 2009, 05:55:32 PM: i've only tried the cornell romany plus you mentioned, i thought it was great. :)
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: jpfamps on February 22, 2009, 07:04:33 PM: Tweed Champs don't have that much headroom, although one might have enough for you if you play very quietly.

I would also have a look into a Silverface (or Blackface if you wanted to spend the extra money) Champ (or Vibrochamp). These have more head room than the Tweed Champs.
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: FELINEGUITARS on February 22, 2009, 10:09:53 PM: If you could live without the reverb and low power options - this would be a great bargain for you

http://www.felineguitars.com/shop/shop_ampsandfx.htm (http://www.felineguitars.com/shop/shop_ampsandfx.htm)

(http://www.felineguitars.com/images/shop/shop_amps/cornell-stinger-525.jpg)

Cornell Stinger(what it was called before it was called Romany) - £399
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: HTH AMPS on February 22, 2009, 10:33:12 PM: something custom with a switchable tweed/blackface tonestack would nail what you're after.

the tweed amps' tone control doesn't attenuate the signal much at all so you get that raunchy tone they're famous for. otoh, the blackface tone circuit attenuates the signal quite alot, so the amp overdrives less. I'm oversimplifying of couse, but that's it in a nutshell.

you could quite easily add a trem circuit and reverb in there too - I'd go with the three-knob Fender reverb circuit if you're going to the trouble of having it.
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: Elliot on February 22, 2009, 11:43:44 PM: Fender Blues Junior? I realise it doesn't match up to the extreme gear snobbery the bareknuckle boards are famous for - but it has tweedy tone (especially in the tweed version), reverb and the master volume allows you to play juicy stuff quite quiet. Add the easy to do BillM mods and you have an even better amp.
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: Twinfan on February 22, 2009, 11:56:20 PM: I believe the build quality of the Blues Junior is a bit suspect, PCB mounted pots etc. Copuld be a good thing to get cheap and mod a bit though as Elliot says???
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: Andrew W on February 23, 2009, 08:26:20 AM: These are all great suggestions, thanks very much. At the cheap end of the scale I was completely unaware of the Fender Champion 600. There seem to be many mods available and whilst some don't sound that great to my ears, the tone on this one (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O7E-ZcZh8w") seemed impressive, especially for the money. Has anyone had experience of switching out the speakers on one of these tiny fellows? My experience in the past has been swapping out speakers on combos was fiddlier than I'd thought.

I'm quite keen on the idea of having some reverb so if I went the Cornell route it would definitely be the Romany Plus.

I also think I was mis-understanding what is meant by headroom, sorry. I think I'm so used to the Marshall-like response of all the amps I've ever owned that, to me, even the tweed seems like it has much more in the way of headroom by which I mean it has a more bell-like quality and not such a mid-heavy response albeit at lower volume levels. Perhaps that's not a quality of the head-room on the amp after all?

Anyway I'm really grateful for all your suggestions so far and if anyone else has an opinion I'm eager to hear it. This is my first foray into this style of amp and I'd like to gather as much knowledge as I can.
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: the_bleeding on February 23, 2009, 09:44:11 AM: why dont you try building a champ? Sounds like its right up your alley.
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: Elliot on February 23, 2009, 09:49:30 AM: The Champion 600 is actually a silverface champ behind the 50s exterior - Its a great amp for country style or clean blues guitar but despite some of the things said about it, it has none of the growl of the old champs (and needs traces cut to make it that way). And no 6" speaker sounds good - to get the best out the champ 600 you need a 1x10 at the smallest (I have tried pretty much all of them in mine, so I know).

I would make a 1x10 or a small 1x12 amp the basis of my choice if I was you.
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: Andrew W on February 23, 2009, 10:42:18 AM: Quote from: the_bleeding on February 23, 2009, 09:44:11 AM
why dont you try building a champ? Sounds like its right up your alley.

I love the idea of this but think I lack the electrical engineering nouse. I can install my new pickups but that's about the limit I'm afraid. The thought of me fiddling with high voltage devices is a bit scary.
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: Twinfan on February 23, 2009, 10:44:25 AM: The Celestion Super 8 is a reasonable 8" speaker if you got that route. I have one in my home-built Champ. I agree with Elloit though, if you can find a 10" combo of some sort you can get a 10" Greenback for it and they're supposedy very nice speakers :)

Quote from: Andrew W on February 23, 2009, 08:26:20 AM
I also think I was mis-understanding what is meant by headroom, sorry. I think I'm so used to the Marshall-like response of all the amps I've ever owned that, to me, even the tweed seems like it has much more in the way of headroom by which I mean it has a more bell-like quality and not such a mid-heavy response albeit at lower volume levels. Perhaps that's not a quality of the head-room on the amp after all?

Headroom of the amp is how loud it can go without distorting. Your description is more to do with the character of the amp's tone? The Tweed Fenders are very Marshall-y and may not be what you're after.

How about one of the Fender '65 Princeton Reverb reissues at £749?

http://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/products/4452-fender_vintage_reissue_65_princeton_reverb_amplifier

http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=2172000000

(http://www.fender.com/products/prod_images/amplifiers/2172000000_xl.jpg)
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: jpfamps on February 23, 2009, 02:45:19 PM: I really like the Princeton Reverb. It's Fender's smallest amp with reverb and is relatively light and portable. The bias modulation tremolo is nice too.

The Princeton Reverb does have less gain than say a Deluxe Reverb.

If I have £750 to spend though, I would get an original Silverface model rather than the reissue.
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: PhilKing on February 23, 2009, 03:39:13 PM: I like Princeton Reverbs too (I have 3! A blackface, modded Silverface and a Princeton II). If you can find a Princeton II (which is the paul Rivera design), then you will have a great overdrive tone as well as a good clean tone. The Princeton II also has a 12" speaker, not a 10. However for clean tones my Blackface Princeton with a 10" JBL can't be beat!
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: jpfamps on February 23, 2009, 04:16:13 PM: I had a Princeton Reverb II which I bought because it was very cheap (£135 off ebay).

I quite liked the clean sound, but never really got on with the distorted tones (actually I don't really like the distortion on that era of Fender amps). I don't play with much distortion, and never use master volume amps or channel switching, this wasn't really an issue. Regardless, some people do like the distortion, so this is obviously a matter of personal preference.

As the clean sound wasn't as good as my Pro Reverb, I ended up selling the amp to a mate who wanted a small channel switching amp. Unfortunately, using a footswitch to change channels alters the sounds of both the clean and overdrive channels, and a not in a way we felt was beneficial, so he ended up selling it.

Anyhow, this era of Fender amps are very well built, and are good value for money.
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: Andrew W on February 24, 2009, 05:59:35 PM: Thanks for all the advice. I think I'm going to keep my eye out for a second hand Princeton or Princeton II on eBay or in the shops until I can demo a Cornell Romany Plus and a Princeton back to back, but that'll have to wait until I can find a shop with both in stock. I tried a new Champ yesterday but was less than thrilled with it but again, if one turns up second hand, I'll give that a try too.

For the curious, I tried the Swart Spacetone Reverb (http://"http://swartamps.com/swart_space_tone_reverb-tweed.htm") and it's a really lovely amp, more mid heavy than I was expecting, but sadly way too loud for my flat by the time it started to come out of its shell. For anyone with tolerant neighbours or who lives in a detached house (I can dream) it's a real beauty that deserves a demo. Not that it should matter, but it looks beautiful also.
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: Andrew W on March 22, 2009, 07:38:19 PM: So here's what I ended up with (on the left for the "photos or it didn't happen brigade"*):

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3446/3376711752_5c0e0983d5.jpg) (http://"http://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_atrocity/3376711752/")

I've been waiting for the shops in and around London to get a new stock of Cornell amps in and Wednesday last week was the day. Vintage and Rare had a Romany Plus and next door, I forget the name, had a new Princeton so I got to try both, not quite back to back but close enough. I liked the Princeton but I felt that the Cornell had a little extra subtlety in its response. I felt that when I dug in hard it gave a bit more back. The deal-clincher was the power-scaling on the Cornell. When I took my Plexi Seven down to Southend for Dennis to modify he mentioned that the next iteration of his amps would have four levels of power scaling (my Plexi, bought last year, has three). The Romany Plus now has 10, 2, 1/4, and 1/8 watt settings and that makes it perfect for my flat-dwelling existence. Even on 1/8 watt it sounds good, albeit not as awesome as it does with more welly, but it does mean I can get some lovely gritty breakup without getting evicted.

I was able to have a good play last night and was able to get some good Jimmie Vaughan type tones and I reckon there's some Billy Gibbons, SRV and Buddy Guy sounds in the box just waiting to be discovered too. I've only managed about 4 hours of playing through it at home so far but I'm a very happy Cornell customer again.

Now it's time to get an A/B pedal...

*Apologies for the horrible photo by the way, you all deserve better.
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: Ian Price on March 22, 2009, 07:43:06 PM: Quote from: Andrew W on March 22, 2009, 07:38:19 PM
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3446/3376711752_5c0e0983d5.jpg) (http://"http://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_atrocity/3376711752/")

That's awesome Andrew - great stuff. Get some clips up!
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: dave_mc on March 22, 2009, 07:54:36 PM: awesome :)
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: Elliot on March 22, 2009, 08:43:49 PM: V nice!
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: indysmith on March 22, 2009, 11:41:01 PM: Beautiful. I'm very jealous - Always wanted a little tweed amp!
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: juansolo on March 24, 2009, 01:22:24 PM: I have to admit that I'm tempted for a Vibro Champ XD. Sort of a Fender valve modeller thing. However I've no interest in it as a combo so want to find someone who could make me a ickle cab for it to turn it into a head so I can run a sensible sized speaker.
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: Twinfan on March 24, 2009, 01:40:40 PM: Quote from: juansolo on March 24, 2009, 01:22:24 PM
I want to find someone who could make me a ickle cab for it to turn it into a head so I can run a sensible sized speaker.

Martin at MJW Amps (Martamp) can do that for you ;)
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: juansolo on March 24, 2009, 02:11:42 PM: Quote from: Twinfan on March 24, 2009, 01:40:40 PM
Martin at MJW Amps (Martamp) can do that for you ;)

Didn't think of asking Martin.... oooh, I feel a pm coming on!
Title: Re: So I'm after a low wattage tweed-style amp...
Post by: Andrew W on March 30, 2009, 11:51:21 PM: Quote from: Ian Price on March 22, 2009, 07:43:06 PM
That's awesome Andrew - great stuff. Get some clips up!

Your wish is my command (http://"http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=16722.0"). Though the clip doesn't in any way do the amp justice, it hopefully gives you an idea of what sort of tonal area the amp inhabits.