Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: WezV on February 24, 2009, 10:30:58 PM

Title: Speaker recommendations
Post by: WezV on February 24, 2009, 10:30:58 PM
right, i am pissing about with my amp set-up again.

i am completely happy with my little rock  into 2x12" 70's carlsbro cab but also have a champ kit i build a couple of years back that really needs to be getting more of a workout

so far its had a shoddily chucked together speaker cab with 8" ceramic jensen speaker. but i have been looking to replace that for a while and cant be bothered making one from scratch as... well in all honestly i loose interest if its not guitar shaped hence the shoddy box it was in

anyway, i just had an impule buy off ebay for the empty shell of a Trace Elliot Velocette 12R  - an amp i have always thought was pretty good looking and now i need a decent 12" speaker to go in it with the champ kit

Ohm's isnt too important as i can rewire the output for 4, 8 or 16

the amp never sounded good through the 8" ceramic jensen speaker, quite shrill

my standard go to speaker is anything greenback style but i was wondering if i should really be considering something else thats
A) not a crazy price
B) vintage flavour, suit a champ but not be too fendery in the high end
C) 12"


Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: Denim n Leather on February 24, 2009, 10:50:31 PM
Scumback Scumnico. Problem solved. Neeeext!! PDT_008
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: WezV on February 24, 2009, 11:03:17 PM
if i had the money that would look to be pretty damn perfect... needs to be a bit cheaper though :(

i guess my upper, upper limit for one speaker is £100 - just cant justify spending more this year

Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: Denim n Leather on February 24, 2009, 11:18:15 PM
Just double the prices on your guitars lol. (I'm sure Phil will LOOOOVE that!)
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: Adam.M on February 24, 2009, 11:41:29 PM
The Celestion G12T-100 Hot-100 is the only speaker i can think of that is cheap and well known to be toneful

It's been reported to me many times that its like a V30 without the irritating mid hump, but with the treble roll off that stops an amp taking your ears off.

Though i've no idea whats suitable for a champ, or any fender amp!
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: ChunkyMunky on February 24, 2009, 11:55:21 PM
Denim, why don't you show everyone you demo of the Scumback?
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: hamfist on February 25, 2009, 07:07:46 AM
The Eminence Cannabis Rex seems to be very well liked for Fender-type amps, and is good at taming the high end of a shrill amp.
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: martinw on February 25, 2009, 08:08:23 AM
G12T-100. What Adam said.

Or G12M if you don't need the flexibility of the higher wattage.
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: WezV on February 25, 2009, 08:30:33 AM
thanks for the suggestions

i dont need massive power handling, i dont have an amp rated above 5w!!

I dug out the old champ kit last night, chucked some random valves in it and put it through the Carlsbro cab (12" mcKensie speakers - very much like greenbacks)  just to check how well it was working and it did sound pretty damn good with them

i think my plan may be to put this amp together so i can also use it as a 1x12 speaker cab with the little rock, as well as being its own stand alone combo... i will need to recover it in red though, thats the best way to sneak stuff into my living room ;)

Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: Roobubba on February 25, 2009, 08:36:08 AM
You already know what I'm going to say, Wez :) Probably not ideal for you, though, but I do think it's a good alternative to the Hot 100 anyway.

Hmmm, actually, come to think of it, I just put one of my Peavey Sheffield 1200 speakers from my 5150 cab into a Fender Princeton 112 Plus (65W solid state Fender from 1992). It is MUCH more efficient than the old Fender own-brand speaker it replaced, but has a much nicer, more sparkly clean tone, and of course the high gain voicing is great :)
I still have another 3 of these, so could part with one if you fancy giving it a shot.

Roo
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: Twinfan on February 25, 2009, 08:49:50 AM
I'd say what Martin says, as we've tried a bunch of speakers.  Hot 100 or Greenback are our favourites.
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: mikeluke on February 25, 2009, 09:40:41 AM
Wez

Couple of thoughts

I have a branch new Eminence The Guv'nor - 12" - 16 ohm -

http://www.eminence-speaker.com/guitar_speaker_detail.asp?model=THEGOVERNOR16&speaker_size=12&SUB_CAT_ID=4

Was planning a 1 x 12" cab to go with my Peavey Classic 30 but not got round to it

I also have the original speaker from the Classic 30 (I think that it is a Blue Marvel but not 100% sure - early to mid 1990s anyway)

PM me if you are interested - sure that we could work out a deal


Mike
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: Gizmo on February 25, 2009, 12:21:55 PM
When i had a little rock i had a 1x12 matamp cab with a G12M in and it sounded good. Not tried others with it so cant compare to Hot 100. I know a lot of people who got the little rock went with the 100.

Does anyone have a link to a web page with clips of the various sounds of diff speakers?
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: WezV on February 25, 2009, 12:55:47 PM
cheers guys, cant PM whilst at work but i like the look of that guv'nor

it would be nice if the speaker also worked well with the little rock but it isnt my main concern as i do have a 2x12 i am rather happy with
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: WezV on February 25, 2009, 08:21:34 PM
just realised i cant do 16 ohms as i thought originally, just 4 and 8.  its a shame because that guv'nor was drawing me in

anyway... i think i have something good sorted... more details once i have it all sorted

cheers guys
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: Roobubba on February 25, 2009, 09:04:00 PM
just realised i cant do 16 ohms as i thought originally, just 4 and 8.  its a shame because that guv'nor was drawing me in

anyway... i think i have something good sorted... more details once i have it all sorted

cheers guys

The peaveys are also 16 ohms, Wez. In other news, G12K-100s only come in the 8 ohm flavour (unless you get an Orange 1x12 cab, for some bizarre reason!)...

Roo
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: mikeluke on February 26, 2009, 09:23:44 AM
Looks like Wez can't use 16 ohms - so I will still have the Eminence and the Peavey in the loft!
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: WezV on February 26, 2009, 11:01:17 AM
thanks for the kind offers Mike and Roo, i was going from memory when i said i could use 4, 8 or 16 ohms but when i actually dug out the kit instructions it seems i cant do 16 afterall.

anyway, HTH put me onto something that i am looking forward to trying... supplied by our very own Jpfamps

more details and a review once i have it sorted
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: Will on February 26, 2009, 11:10:43 AM
seems i cant do 16 afterall.

Could you not solder a resister in to change the load?
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: WezV on February 26, 2009, 03:47:43 PM
havnt got a clue... amps are not my speciality at all - but i do know from the instructions that i can swap a wire for either 4 or 8 ohm operation
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: Roobubba on February 26, 2009, 03:50:23 PM
Hmmm... The plot thickens...

Presumably the cab is *already* loaded with a resistor on one of the connections to allow either 4 or 8 ohm operation (given that it's a 1 x 12" cab, and the speaker only has one impedance value!). Worth opening up to check. In principle, I'd imagine you could switch out the resistor that's currently there to allow either 8 or 16 ohm operation...

Roo
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: WezV on February 26, 2009, 03:58:10 PM
no roo, it the speaker out on the amp kit i made.  The output transformer can be hooked up for 4 or 8 ohm operation. 

Currently its wired for 4 ohm operation buti can change the amp output to 8 ohm by swapping a wire.  then i can get a single 8 ohm speaker that will also work fine with my little rock as well (i plan on having jack connections between speaker and kit amp so i can still unplug the speaker completely and use it as a 1x12 speaker cab for the little rock)

So one amp that can be 4 or 8 Ohms (champ kit)
One that can be 8 or 16 ohms (little rock)
a 2x12 cab that can be 4 or 16 ohms (the current one)
and hopefully a new speaker in an old 1x12 combo which will be 8 ohms


its all clear in my head
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: Roobubba on February 26, 2009, 04:46:00 PM
Okay I'm with you :)

Roo
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: WezV on February 26, 2009, 05:01:36 PM
tbh the only reason for all of this is that i like the look of trace elliot velocette amps and happened to bid on the empty shell of one

Not mine, but the look i like:
http://www.chambonino.com/work/work12a.jpg

the one i am getting is black rather than green but thats ok as i would feel bad recovering a sexy green one with red tolex... since its boring black i will probably recover it red and replace the grill cloth with a biscuit one - especially since i have some left over from doing the 2x12

the positive side is that it means i will finally have a aesthetically pleasing home for the amp kit and i hope having a 1x12 cab will let me push both the amps a bit harder than i currently can.   the downside is that it might make my 2x12 redundant - but i really like it.   

it may be that i end up using one of the old speakers from the 2x12 in this new housing and eventually get rid of the 2x12 cab - before that i want to try out a new speaker or two in order to make sure thats the best option for me
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: WezV on March 27, 2009, 07:52:07 PM
the cabinet finally turned up earlier this week so i have recovered it in red and changed teh grill ready for the new speaker thats now ordered


this is my second time tolexing an amp.  first time i used contact adhesive - this time i used pva.  i think i prefer contact adhesive but i actually got better results this time because i prepped this ply cabinet better than the old battered chipboard one i did last time.

the old tolex came of very cleanly so i used it as a template for cutting the new stuff - i didnt bother with teh sides as i quite like the look of red and black

(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/new/amp1.jpg)
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: HTH AMPS on March 28, 2009, 06:08:25 PM
nice job Wez, hope you like the speaker.  I'm waiting for a set of OLD Goodmans alnico 12s to come back from Tayden - getting reconed and the power handling bumped up to 30w a piece, perfect for an AC30.

which speaker did you go for?
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: WezV on March 29, 2009, 02:31:26 AM
its the M-series, thx for putting me onto it.  I am getting something that should theoretically  be somewhere between a chinese greenback and a heritage greenback for less than the chinese one... i will let you all know how it fares once i have it installed - and then i suppose i really need to spend some time playing to break it in


i should point out this is the first new speaker i have had since i was 17. back then i got a 1978 voxac30ss with greenbacks and since then i have been using a 70's carlsboro cab with mckensie speakers which seem to be re-badged greenbacks... so i am aware i may need to break the speaker in before giving too many judgements
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: HTH AMPS on March 29, 2009, 11:17:58 AM
break-in of speakers is definately noticeable - I think you need to give them a month of serious volume before they settle down.

depending on the speaker, there is always one frequency range that dominates - my Creamback G12H-30s (55Hz bass cone) sounded REALLY thick and bassy when I first got them reconed, but the top end really opened up after a while.  The G12H-30 (anniversary series) with 75Hz lead cones sounded really midrange-heavy at first, then settled down too, but probably had just a little bit too much top end for me (hence I use 55Hz bass cone versions now)
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: JamesHealey on March 30, 2009, 09:16:26 AM
please check out my speaker deal in the seconds out section.
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: WezV on March 31, 2009, 09:17:18 AM
they sound like a good thing james but dont suit my requirements
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: WezV on April 07, 2009, 01:08:54 PM
got the new speaker from jpfamps - will wire it in soon, still need to mod the cab slightly to fit the amp

anyway.  looks good so far

(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/new/XL805183.jpg)
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: Will on April 07, 2009, 05:52:23 PM
Looks nice, better get to breaking it in though :P

On a side note, I think I met JPF on the day of the BKP meet when I went to Angel Music.
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: WezV on April 07, 2009, 06:11:06 PM
i know... i should have it mounted in the amp in the next day or two.

i realised today that almost my entire rig is handmade in the UK (ok, some made by me!).... then i thought about it a bit more... it has been for a while!!!  My current cab is carlsbro with mckensie speakers.  My old amp was a 70's vox ac30ss with greenbacks and the other amp i had was a 60's dallas scala 5w combo.  All Uk built for at leat the last 14 years!!

i went with the tayden as the spec is in between a british made celestion Heritage greenback and a chinese celestion.  I.e the tayden M-series is apparently a british made cone, motor unit and voice coil with chinese made magnet and basket... all assembled in the UK and at a keener price than either of those celestions.  will let you know what i think once i have played it a bit and A/B'd it with the 2x12 mckensie cab
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: jpfamps on April 08, 2009, 01:29:01 PM
Looks nice, better get to breaking it in though :P

On a side note, I think I met JPF on the day of the BKP meet when I went to Angel Music.

Actually you met F, J-P was away!
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: jpfamps on April 08, 2009, 01:36:24 PM
i know... i should have it mounted in the amp in the next day or two.

i realised today that almost my entire rig is handmade in the UK (ok, some made by me!).... then i thought about it a bit more... it has been for a while!!!  My current cab is carlsbro with mckensie speakers.  My old amp was a 70's vox ac30ss with greenbacks and the other amp i had was a 60's dallas scala 5w combo.  All Uk built for at leat the last 14 years!!

i went with the tayden as the spec is in between a british made celestion Heritage greenback and a chinese celestion.  I.e the tayden M-series is apparently a british made cone, motor unit and voice coil with chinese made magnet and basket... all assembled in the UK and at a keener price than either of those celestions.  will let you know what i think once i have played it a bit and A/B'd it with the 2x12 mckensie cab

As far as I know all the Celestion baskets are made in China (including the Heritage series). I don't think there is any UK company stamping speaker baskets. I also suspect the Celestion motor units and magnets are made in China. Not sure about the voice coils.

As far as I can tell the only difference between a Chinese G12M and a Heritage is that the Heritage is assembled in the UK using the same parts as the Chinese G12M except for British-made Kurt Müller cones, suspension and dust cap.

So the Tayden may well be the speaker with the most British-made parts in it!!






Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: Roobubba on April 08, 2009, 01:42:48 PM
Looks nice, better get to breaking it in though :P

On a side note, I think I met JPF on the day of the BKP meet when I went to Angel Music.

Actually you met F, J-P was away!
I'm going to hazard a guess that there are two people's names going towards 'JPF', and that you're not, in fact, one person with multiple alter egos :)

Can't wait to hear clips of that speaker, Wez - get it in there and start breaking it in already! :)

Roo
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: WezV on April 08, 2009, 02:23:25 PM
i am just a jack socket away from having it ready... although before i do that i need to install some side dots and fret markers on a guitar and lapsteel, clean up all the dust i have just been making and have a bath.  should get it done this afternoon though
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: WezV on April 08, 2009, 05:36:22 PM
its in now.  First impressions are good.  The little rock sounds pretty much like it did before with the old cab (excellent news), except i can crank it a bit further without annoying the neighbours because its only 1 speaker instead of 2.

the champ style amp is a revelation, i dont think its ever sounded so good

need to play it some more
Title: Re: Speaker recommendations
Post by: PhilKing on April 08, 2009, 06:44:05 PM
My G12M heritage sounds great wth low powered amps, so perhaps it is a similar thing that you're hearing.