Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Spitfire on February 28, 2009, 09:45:45 PM
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they website is layed out like its a shop... well it has prices for the guitars, then has the prices for the extras.. but no way of ordering.. Do you have to go thru a dealer for this? or ring em? how does it work.
also, they are made near manchester right?? does that mean parts made in china then shipped back and put together in manchester? or actually build 100% in manc?
i was in manchester last sunday with the gf for a mooch about (neither of us like shopping so i dont reli know why we went) but i had the great idea of going to try some gordon smiths at a shop there i know sells em.. bad idea, being sunday it was of course closed.
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YO!
there is one shop in the centre of manc that sells them. Forsyths Music http://www.forsyths.co.uk/
Thats where i got mine.
AlL the guitars and pickups are hand made just outside manc. Im not sure about the bridge parts. The GS bridges are an in house design, but i don't know where they are machined. probably locally as i doubt they buy in bulk.
all the guitars are hand made and the lead time is 6 months for something specific (you can email and check).
you should call them up and tell them what you want. thats probably the way to order. I got my GS second hand, but from Forsyth's. you can also try a bunch of GS's that they have in stock. you can see what they have on their website. the older GS's have a slightly better finish. the new ones play really really well but arent cosmetically the best. they are build as real real real well playing workhorse guitars. I have one, the other guitarist in my band has one too.
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I own a GS graduate, and used to own a GS 2. Also have played a few in shops.
My experience has been mixed. The GS2 I bought (new from a shop) was faulty and had to be returned. It had a crack at the body/neck joint and really should not have been allowed out of the factory (or shop - depending on when exactly the crack surfaced). Also played another GS2 in a shop which had appalling fretwork. Really all over the place, you could easily visibly see some frets higher than others - again should have never left the factory in that state.
However, the GS graduate I now own (bought 2nd hand) is a superb guitar - excellently put together in every way. In fact, the nicest playing guitar I've ever played.
I have also played another couple, owned privately by friends who have been superb.
They certainly have been a mixed bag in my experience.
My theory (and it is just a theory, I have no real evidence) is that the very best guitars they make, are made from direct orders to the factory. Maybe the shop dealers get the slight 2nd's. Maybe it is that quality control has slipped a little bit in the last couple of years. Not sure.
WHat I am sure of is that it is well worth seeking out a good one.
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What he said.
I've had 2 GS2's.
They play extremely well, but have occasional issues. One thing I found, is that sometimes the frets are perpendicluar to the edge of the fretboard, and sometimes perpendicular to the centreline of the guitar.
I proved this by going round the entire stock at Sounds Great (who don't seem to sell them any more) with an engineers square, with the manager. Some were one way and some the other. Not sure if it affects intonation or anything (perhaps Wes or Jon can comment?) but it looks odd once you've noticed it.
Also both of mine had problems with microphonic pickups. When pressed on the this, John's reply was that it was how they were made, so you have to live with it.
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They play extremely well, but have occasional issues. One thing I found, is that sometimes the frets are perpendicluar to the edge of the fretboard, and sometimes perpendicular to the centreline of the guitar.
They certainly do seem to have a problem aligning things properly! My old GS1 has an off-centre headstock, of all things. To be fair, it doesn't affect playability at all, and it actually took me several years to even notice.
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My theory (and it is just a theory, I have no real evidence) is that the very best guitars they make, are made from direct orders to the factory. Maybe the shop dealers get the slight 2nd's. Maybe it is that quality control has slipped a little bit in the last couple of years. Not sure.
Your theory isn't true Alan. A friend of mine custom ordered a GS and it arrived with a 'wonky' neck - too difficult to explain in text! Basically it had been over sanded/profiled in one place and the rest of the guitar 'botched' to fit. NOT good.
I've had two GSs personally, one which was really great and the one I still own which is 'OK'.
They're very hit and miss, and I wouldn't buy one without trying first.
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Got to agree with Twinfan.
They make some nice guitars but some get through that are very crude. If I was looking at geting one I would buy from shops so you can try before you buy. I have two one was a punt off ebay a slimline (graduate). That a nice guitar. The 2nd one was a tele I ordered and the construction not bad but the wood used and finish is very disappointing.
I would consider buying another gordon smith but I would try before I buy. If you go down the ordering direct route I would supply the pickups instead of having there pickups fitted. There is a huge difference in quality between theirs and BK's.
If you want to order just email them with the bits you want. They can do a bit more than what they say in terms of options just ask. I think there prices go up start of april.
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Most I have played have been great..with no major probs mentioned
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i heard all this before. i heard getting older second hand versions is a much better idea.
my GS is an 1987 Graduate. It has some features that GS simply wont do any more.
I believe the difference came when one of the owners past away or something, a while after that things seemed to go down hill.
I wont mention sounds great haha, but at forsyths where i got mine, the newer models had little chips in the neck joint on bolt on necks, but i would say that pretty cosmetic, like bad sanding taking little chips out the grain. but then they do say that their guitars are not supposed to be works or art.
Still i didnt realise they were as hit and miss as people suggest.
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I believe the difference came when one of the owners past away or something, a while after that things seemed to go down hill.
It was originally Gordon Whittam and John Smith, but Whittam left way back in the early 80s and set up Gordy guitars. I don't know if there have been any other major changes since.
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mixed experiences here also - try first!
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I'm not trying to start a PRS/Caparison style slag-fest, but I've always felt GS guitars are overrated and even overpriced.
They don't use particularly great timbers, their pickups and hardware are so-so, their plastic parts are crude and their finishing is pretty poor. Their starter model is over £400 and you can't usually get them significantly discounted - for that kind of money you can get some very nice import guitars with far more consistent build quality.
OK, I'm comparing apples and oranges - mass produced and hand made - but if "hand made" equals "sloppily made" I don't see it as a benefit worth paying for.
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One thing I found, is that sometimes the frets are perpendicluar to the edge of the fretboard, and sometimes perpendicular to the centreline of the guitar
sounds very odd, most likely a mistake but it does sound kind off like the rickenbacker idea of slanted (no, not fanned - thats different and less crazy!! ;) )frets
http://www.rickbeat.com/modelslibrary/481/481.htm
Which edge were they perpendicular to?
anyway... its handmade at a stupidly low price in the UK - something has to give somewhere
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I've always found that the quality has been variable on the ones I've worked on. Just check out the surface of the fingerboard at the upper end and the fact that all of the bridge saddles are on the extreme end of their travel presumably to get the intonation right and this one is on the website http://www.gordonsmithguitars.com/products/category.php?id=6
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I am gonna say mine is good. i swapped the pups for gibson 490R & 498T. it didnt have a standard cavity for pickups so the legs had to be ground down to fit.
This is a gemini.
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t232/catcha2007/gordonsmithgemini2.jpg)
They haven't been made for some time. My GS looks like this but without the fancy binding on the neck or headstock, and with dot inlays rather than blocks. mine also has an older style GS bridge. not like the in the photo but not like the current one either.
This is another gemini.
(http://www.rare-guitars.co.uk/guitars/GordonSmith-prototype/prototype.jpg)
from what ive read the Gemini is the best guitar they ever made. the serial on mine it 00156 which puts it into the 80's. mine has none of the problems anyone has mentioned in this thread but yeah, it was easy to tell the build quality between mine and current ones.
If i was going to get one, id always look out for something second hand. If i wanted a nice custom build to my own specs id go elsewhere.
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Music Ground on Oxford Road in Manchester also stock Gordon Smiths
Personally, i don't like them
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One thing I found, is that sometimes the frets are perpendicluar to the edge of the fretboard, and sometimes perpendicular to the centreline of the guitar
sounds very odd, most likely a mistake...
Which edge were they perpendicular to?
The bass side. The owner of Sounds Great phoned John Smith while I was there, and there was some discussion about the fret slot jig they were using.
I gathered (and I might be wrong, but I think this is the jist) that you could put either a (rectangular) fingerboard blank, or a finished and shaped neck/fingerboard in their jig. Obviously one way gives you frets at 90 deg to the edge of the fingerboard, and the other way they're 90 deg to the centreline.
:?
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I read somewhere they had some unique neck building technique?
The owner of Sounds Great sounds like a really helpful guy.
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i know they used to do fretboards as thin veneers similar to some fenders, not sure if they still do - that would explain why they sometimes fret a whole neck instead of a fretboard blank.. but using a system that purposely angles the frets in a non-ergonomic way is crazy.
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i was thinking about some single piece maple neck. the construction of which was a closely guarded secret
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One thing I found, is that sometimes the frets are perpendicluar to the edge of the fretboard, and sometimes perpendicular to the centreline of the guitar
sounds very odd, most likely a mistake...
Which edge were they perpendicular to?
The bass side. The owner of Sounds Great phoned John Smith while I was there, and there was some discussion about the fret slot jig they were using.
I gathered (and I might be wrong, but I think this is the jist) that you could put either a (rectangular) fingerboard blank, or a finished and shaped neck/fingerboard in their jig. Obviously one way gives you frets at 90 deg to the edge of the fingerboard, and the other way they're 90 deg to the centreline.
:?
If you put a tapered finger board into the jig you have to pack it out so that the centre line is perpendicular to the slot cutter; nothing else makes sense!! :?
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yeah, its not like it would take more than an hour or two to make a different jig even if it was an issue
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i was thinking about some single piece maple neck. the construction of which was a closely guarded secret
Yeah, they have some means of inserting the truss rod without resorting to either a separate fingerboard or a skunk stripe on the back.
I suppose it involves somehow drilling a hole along the neck when it's under tension. :?
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yeah, its not like it would take more than an hour or two to make a different jig even if it was an issue
Absolutely. Very strange thing to do. :?
Anyway, I can bear witness, as can the guy at SG, that it is the case. We went round at least 8 guitars in the shop (this was 3-4 years ago when they had a biggish stock of them) with an engineers square and 1/2 were one way, half the other.
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i've tried a couple, when i was last in London- I liked them a lot, I didn't notice any issues... but from what i've heard online (and heard it repeatedly, from different people, whom i trust), they're hit and miss, so you'd want to try before you buy. it's entirely possible that i just happened to luckily try "hits" (or else didn't have the wit to recognise "misses", which is always a possibility :lol: ).
OK, I'm comparing apples and oranges - mass produced and hand made - but if "hand made" equals "sloppily made" I don't see it as a benefit worth paying for.
agreed. handmade is only good if the person doing the handmaking is skilled. It's like paintings... paintings are more valuable than prints, but you'd be daft if you bought a painting by me because it was hand-made... o_O
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Well my GS2 cost £459 and plays fine. It was a custom order and I waitied about 9 weeks for it via Sounds Great.
The finish is good, but not perfect, and I find it pretty good to play.
I can tell you the Gibsons at a similar price are far rougher.....(Junior, faded etc)
And the far eastern competition is not even close.
But certainly if you plan to buy a shop model try a few out, you can't build a solid mahogany body 2 pickup guitar by hand for under £500 and expect them all to be gems, but the secret is that some of them are. In fact to the stock in sounds Great a few years ago, I remember trying about 20 guitars one day and the one with the most resonance and vibe was a Gordon Smith.
I think the worst one was also a Gordon Smith....
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But certainly if you plan to buy a shop model try a few out, you can't build a solid mahogany body 2 pickup guitar by hand for under £500 and expect them all to be gems, but the secret is that some of them are. In fact to the stock in sounds Great a few years ago, I remember trying about 20 guitars one day and the one with the most resonance and vibe was a Gordon Smith.
I think the worst one was also a Gordon Smith....
I just can't see how there can be much "hand made" content in a £500 guitar. The guitars I make cost more than that for just paint, parts and materials. That includes the semi-machined stuff we're bringing out this year. But going back to the general quality thing; I didn't want to give the impression that every GS I've ever seen was poor; I've also seen some really delightful examples of what is after all a modestly priced piece of kit.
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I've read articles on the Gordon-Smith "factory". Yes, they use machinery but it's Heath Robinson stuff made by John Smith himself from old lawnmowers (or something...). No CNC or anything fancy-schmancy like that.
I think they used to say on their website that they couldn't supply replacement scratchplates because they're all made individually so the screw holes wouldn't match!
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Well my GS2 cost £459 and plays fine. It was a custom order and I waitied about 9 weeks for it via Sounds Great.
The finish is good, but not perfect, and I find it pretty good to play.
I can tell you the Gibsons at a similar price are far rougher.....(Junior, faded etc)
I beg to differ. :) My Les Paul Vintage Mahogany Studio is superb, not in the slightest bit rough, well worth the £480 I paid for it. And a hard case and Burstbucker Pro pickups too.
My Swamp ash SG (about £450 with hard case) is excellent as well. No issues.
To be fair, despite the fret alignment issue, both the GS2's I've had played excellently and were well finished.
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One of my friends has recently part exchanged his custom built guitar for a GS. I haven't seen it or played it yet but my friend said he tried it in the shop and loved it.Knowing him as i do, he is very fussy about guitars. I will have a go on it when I next see him-don't know when cos we are both very busy one way or the other but I am looking forward to trying it as he was very enthusiastic about it.
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Well my GS2 cost £459 and plays fine. It was a custom order and I waitied about 9 weeks for it via Sounds Great.
The finish is good, but not perfect, and I find it pretty good to play.
I can tell you the Gibsons at a similar price are far rougher.....(Junior, faded etc)
I beg to differ. :) My Les Paul Vintage Mahogany Studio is superb, not in the slightest bit rough, well worth the £480 I paid for it. And a hard case and Burstbucker Pro pickups too.
My Swamp ash SG (about £450 with hard case) is excellent as well. No issues.
To be fair, despite the fret alignment issue, both the GS2's I've had played excellently and were well finished.
I'm not saying all Gibbo's are dodgy at that price, it's just I've tried a few that were like a CDT project. Most notably a melody maker but I suppose they have dropped the price on those a lot lately. I have also tried some great SG's.
With regrads to the tools they use, apparently one uses a bike wheel and a motor off something, basically they make their own so they are not hand built, only had crafted.
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I have a custom order GSG Graduate 60 and really like it for the most part.
I ordered it at a time I was left some money in a will and contacted GSG direct for an order as I wanted the 'normal' LP style tailpiece and bridge, not GSGs own wrap around tailpiece, I also provided the pickups (Duncans, before I'd heard of BKPs ;)) and also wanted a custom colour.
It took a few months and then I went to the factory to pick it up. I foudn out while there that they build their own machinery (as mentioned somewhere above) and the staff at the time consisted of only 3 people: John Smith - Woodworking and finishing, Chris (I think) did electronics and setups and Johns wife Linda did customer services and finance etc.
I've not played many other GSGs, so can't comment on how hit or miss they are, but I can say that there's nothing wrong with mine :)
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I can tell you the Gibsons at a similar price are far rougher.....(Junior, faded etc)
But certainly if you plan to buy a shop model try a few out, you can't build a solid mahogany body 2 pickup guitar by hand for under £500 and expect them all to be gems, but the secret is that some of them are.
yeah, i think that's probably the case... unless they've all gone downhill since i tried them (which was about 3-4 years ago, i think), but the ones i tried were nice. Nice enough to make me want one... just i went off the idea when i heard all the horror stories online, as there are no dealers here and I'd have to order unseen.
agreed about the gibsons, too. They aren't all bad, but I've tried some very rough ones.
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There are always some products that will surprise you no matter what. I've done some set ups and minor repairs on a bunch of Teles (sorry Roo) for a well known local guitar retailer. They are made in China HH Teles with a glued neck and two "Duncan Designed" humbuckers retailing at three hundred and something quid. Don't know the model number or whatever but they are seriously well playable, the finish is superb and they sound terrific. Add a set of BKPs and you've got a really serious guitar on your hands. The "Hand Made" or "Hand Crafted" tag only works IMHO if you are offering something very special. I just can't understand why Gordon Smith Guitars are still trying to compete in the mid price range. If they continue to be successful I'll be the first to say well done. We have a fantastic range of British built guitars out there and I'm personally very proud to be a part of it. Let's hope that Gordon Smith Guitars will continue to be a part of it, god knows they've outlasted a number of other pretenders.
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There are always some products that will surprise you no matter what. I've done some set ups and minor repairs on a bunch of Teles (sorry Roo) for a well known local guitar retailer. They are made in China HH Teles with a glued neck and two "Duncan Designed" humbuckers retailing at three hundred and something quid. Don't know the model number or whatever but they are seriously well playable, the finish is superb and they sound terrific.
Dammit, that's given me instant set-neck Tele GAS!! :x :lol:
I have to do some research. Do you know which model it is, and is it Squier or Fender?
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There are always some products that will surprise you no matter what. I've done some set ups and minor repairs on a bunch of Teles (sorry Roo) for a well known local guitar retailer. They are made in China HH Teles with a glued neck and two "Duncan Designed" humbuckers retailing at three hundred and something quid. Don't know the model number or whatever but they are seriously well playable, the finish is superb and they sound terrific.
Dammit, that's given me instant set-neck Tele GAS!! :x :lol:
I have to do some research. Do you know which model it is, and is it Squier or Fender?
I think this is it Philly but the ones I have worked on have had a clear coat natural finish. https://www.newstreetmusic.co.uk/guitars/electrics/squier/squier-master-series-thinline-telecaster-hh-electric-crimson-transparent/prod_439.html
:D£279.... I'd buy one if I could find a lefty!!! :D
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Thanks Bob, looks good! :)
But I'll probably GAS over it for a bit then forget about it... trying to be sensible and avoid impulse buys this year....