Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: MDV on March 09, 2009, 11:11:57 AM

Title: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: MDV on March 09, 2009, 11:11:57 AM
I've developed quite the technique with a sharpening stone, padded boots nailfile and steel wool but had to make some serious reductions to some frets (epiphones chimp-assembled line of gutiars with necks set in at the wrong angle are to blame) with that the other day and crowning, tricky with that ad-hoc setup at the best of times, was a nightmare

I figure its time to invest in some fret files.

Recommendations please!
Title: Re: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: Adam.M on March 09, 2009, 02:07:36 PM
A sign as how tired i am at the moment

I read the forum topic as 'Another luthier dies - need freds flies'

Carry on...
Title: Re: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: PhilKing on March 09, 2009, 02:34:53 PM
Go for the Stewart McDonald ones (www.stewmac.com (http://www.stewmac.com), they have 2 different sizes per file.  I have them and they are very good.  You don't need all of them, figure out the size frets you are using and how you want the crown to be, then find the one that will do it for you.
Title: Re: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: MDV on March 09, 2009, 02:48:29 PM
Do you mean the diamond ones?

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for:_Fretting.html

First option

Thems some pricey files. Are they really that good?
Title: Re: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: PhilKing on March 09, 2009, 03:08:13 PM
No - the double sided fret files I meant.  I have the diamond one that looks like a first world war tank from the side and it is really good though!
Title: Re: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: Ratrod on March 09, 2009, 04:08:36 PM
Get the complete fretting tool kit.

(http://www.stewmac.com/product_images/1lg/5345/Essential_Fretting_Tool_Kit_Detail.jpg)

Well worth the investment. I did my first fret dressing with this kit last week. I didn't even do a half assed job. Good tools is half the work.

I also got the setup kit and the nut making kit.

I had an old Japanese D-35 clone and made it come back to life with these tools.

Dressed the frets, cut the nut slots a little deeper for proper string height at the first fret, it now plays like a dream.

The 'under the string' radius gauges in the setup kit are the greatest invention ever, especially when setting up a Fender.
Title: Re: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: MDV on March 09, 2009, 05:36:36 PM
Thanks ratrod, but I have many tools that cover most of whats there. Perhaps not as optimised, but no matter, with due care and attention and a bit of resourcefulness I get by just fine with more conventional gear for the most part (other parts, where I dont, would include that bloody epiphone I just did! Result was good, customer happy, me; not so bloody happy!).

So, I'm looking at the double fret files that Phil suggested.

Then, more pricily but various aspects of its design make a lot of sense to me, the http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Shaping_and_crowning/2/Diamond_Fret_Files.html offset diamond fret file.

And the other main thing is the leveling stone. The one I currently use leaves fine grooves in the fret that have to be filed out. This one http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Leveling/1/Fret_Fingerboard_Leveling_Files.html claims to leave a smooth surface. Really? REALLY? That doesnt seem terribly likely to me - I dont think a frets smooth until its mirror-reflective. But if it does, then cool, I'll bite.

So, my questions

- is the conventional sharpening stone I have good enough, or does the stewmac one live up to its claim of leaving a smooth surface (which is a bit irrelevent seeing as they get crowned ayway, but it may be handy)

- Is diamond really much better than normal steel files? Is it true that it doesnt leave chatter marks and gives a smoother result? How long till it wears out and I have to buy another anyway?

The choice is currently use the dozens of more conventional files and sharpening stones I have (I have a few actually, just one good one and a couple of really cr@p ones), dont fall for diamond file hype (if hype it be) and just get one normal double side file

Or

If diamonds better (or better enough) get one of them.

Or

If diamond isnt better, but those levelling stones are better than normal sharpening stones get the normal file and the leveling file

Or

If diamonds better and the levelling files are better than normal sharpening stones then a diamond file and levelling file (to the tune of about £100, but thats just 1.5 fret dresses (and setups) really so if it is good stuff, I'll go for it)
Title: Re: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: MDV on March 09, 2009, 06:04:34 PM
Screw it, ordered the offset diamond file and some mircomeshes.
Title: Re: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: PhilKing on March 09, 2009, 10:33:38 PM
You won't regret it.  I have the offset file and use it a lot, it is very smooth but takes down the frets really quickly.  One pass over the end and you have a nice smooth finish, 2 passes and it looks like you spent hours with them.
Title: Re: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: MDV on March 09, 2009, 10:57:40 PM
Good to hear!
Title: Re: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: Ratrod on March 10, 2009, 10:47:14 AM
I know some guys who have the diamond fret files and they swear by it.

The leveling file leaves a very smooth surface. I was surprised by that.

After the levelling and crowning you still need to smoothen it up with fine grit sandpaper and steel wool.

After that, a bit of polish and they look like new.
Title: Re: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: MDV on March 10, 2009, 09:24:55 PM
Well, I didnt get the levelling files, but I think I'll test the rest with a refret of one of my more expendable guitars. The sharpening stone leaves a pretty rough surface, but on reflection, I want that, because I use it (when some frets arent showing wear, they're stilll too low, continue till they do).
Title: Re: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: WezV on March 10, 2009, 09:42:04 PM
get yourself a sharpie - mark all the tops of the frets with it before levelling

its easier to spot any low frets this way
Title: Re: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: MDV on March 10, 2009, 11:05:00 PM
get yourself a sharpie - mark all the tops of the frets with it before levelling

its easier to spot any low frets this way

Good idea!

Wish I thought of that. Thanks!
Title: Re: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: Ratrod on March 11, 2009, 12:53:06 PM
I use a marker for every step of the process. It shows the low spots and it also shows how evenly you file things down.
Title: Re: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: ToneMonkey on March 11, 2009, 02:38:19 PM
get yourself a sharpie - mark all the tops of the frets with it before levelling

its easier to spot any low frets this way

I do this when I'm sanding too.  I hatch the area up with a pencil and run over it with some sandpaper.  Depending on what I'm doing then I stop using whichever tool I'm using and have a quick whip over it with this method to check the progress.

I'm 99% sure that if you're using stainless frets then you really need the diamond files.

I also figure that it's only a matter of time until you can get tungsten carbide frets.  My prediction for 2009  :D
Title: Re: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: MDV on March 11, 2009, 02:56:11 PM
If you have tungsten carbide frets then we'll have to have carbon nano-tube files for our fret dresses.

Which will be needed at least once every 600 years.
Title: Re: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: ToneMonkey on March 11, 2009, 03:01:56 PM
 :D

You could definatley do it with the dimaond files (well maybe not definately).  My wedding ring is tungsten carbide and still isn't scratched after two years.  It's be nice to have some fit and forget about frets.

Carbon nonotube strings would last nearly as long as the frets.  All we need now is a depleted uranium fretboard and I think we may be onto something  :lol:
Title: Re: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: MDV on March 11, 2009, 03:17:34 PM
Well, diamond is harder, but its not harder enough. 9 mohs to 10. You need the aggregate diamond nanotube files, or it'll be like doing stainless steel with hardened steel. And that just wouldnt do. Plus, I want fancy super-material tools!

I dont think carbon nanotube strings would vibrate very freely. Now, a nanotube through neck, where the nanotubes are normal buckyball width, but each one runs the full length of the guitar: that would be a hell of a neck. Certainly wouldnt drift. Or need a truss rod. Or need to be more than 0.0001mm thick.
Title: Re: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: ToneMonkey on March 11, 2009, 03:29:19 PM
They milled my ring (ohh er, missus) using a diamond on the end of a normal lathe bit, so I should imagine it will work (or rip the diamonds off your file  :( )
Title: Re: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: FELINEGUITARS on March 13, 2009, 01:22:41 AM
If you have tungsten carbide frets then we'll have to have carbon nano-tube files for our fret dresses.

Which will be needed at least once every 600 years.

Sadly not the case
Most fret dresses are made necessary because the wood shrinks and deforms rather than just fret wear
Super hard frets would become more of a nuisance than you might believe
Title: Re: Attn luthier dudes - need fret files
Post by: MDV on March 13, 2009, 11:38:35 AM
Interesting. thanks.