Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: Johnny Mac on March 18, 2009, 07:10:25 PM
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Anyone got one to exercise two yet? :lol:
EDIT I've only just noticed that these didn't get emailed to those who were there on Saturday at the BKP meet. Sorry! So here they are.
The spider exercises. Ok you move one finger at a time, so you will always have 3 fingers pinned to the board. Start at the 5th fret if the 1st is a bit tricky. Ascend and descend in that position and move up a fret when your back at the 6th string
The second one is a killer but good. Start 1st finger, 1st fret, 1st string and descend to the 6th string in the pattern shown. When you get to the 6th string take all fingers off and ascend back to the start position and move up a fret
Once you have gone through these in one position ascending and descending move up a fret and go up as high as you can then back to where you started.
Take it easy at first with these as they're designed to stretch your tendons. Don't over do it!
*Correction
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gwEm has been doing well expanding his third eye!
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expanding his third eye!
:lol:
This is a serious mean joke in Brazil :P
WTH are Spider Exercises?
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Anyone got one to exercise two yet? :lol:
Yeah.... -ish. :(
I'm finding it really difficult, though, going from low to high strings. Like when you have your first finger on the A string and the other three still on the low E string, I can't get the note to sound because the other fingers damp the string. Unless I use the very tips of my fingers, at 90 degrees to the board, with my thumb on the back of the neck, which isn't how I usually play at all.
And I'm so SLOW - can't see me ever playing these things at any kind of speed.
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Anyone got one to exercise two yet? :lol:
Yeah.... -ish. :(
I'm finding it really difficult, though, going from low to high strings. Like when you have your first finger on the A string and the other three still on the low E string, I can't get the note to sound because the other fingers damp the string. Unless I use the very tips of my fingers, at 90 degrees to the board, with my thumb on the back of the neck, which isn't how I usually play at all.
And I'm so SLOW - can't see me ever playing these things at any kind of speed.
Well that sounds like progress to me! :D You have to play these with the thumb behind the neck, which will make your fingertips arrive at more of a right angle, which will fret the note cleaner. You will get used to it. The ascending part of these is harder. Your muscles and tendons will get stronger, trust me! You can start at say the 5th or 7th fret before tackling the 1st to start these off.
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I have been through all exercises you emailed (slowly) a couple of times. Should I master one before moving on?
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I have been through all exercises you emailed (slowly) a couple of times. Should I master one before moving on?
What ever works for you Will. He was teaching me about 3 things at once when I went for lessons.
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WTH are Spider Exercises?
Yeah... wassisthen Johnny?
I'm guessing they're part of this hippy-mind-expanding-guitar-training you were talking about a while back - but if you've managed to get Philly doing these, they must be reasonably down-to-earth and believable...
(that's a compliment btw Philly :roll:.... :lol:)
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WTH are Spider Exercises?
Yeah... wassisthen Johnny?
I'm guessing they're part of this hippy-mind-expanding-guitar-training you were talking about a while back - but if you've managed to get Philly doing these, they must be reasonably down-to-earth and believable...
(that's a compliment btw Philly :roll:.... :lol:)
No :lol: no third eye stuff involved with these, just follow the diagram attached. The key is to keep 3 fingers conected to the fret board while one is moving.
I'll amend the original post!
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I'm guessing they're part of this hippy-mind-expanding-guitar-training you were talking about a while back - but if you've managed to get Philly doing these, they must be reasonably down-to-earth and believable...
(that's a compliment btw Philly :roll:.... :lol:)
Yeah, my third eye is staying firmly closed. To the cosmos. Maaan. :wink:
I'm not sure what these are meant to do, exactly... I guess it's a "muscle memory" thing for developing independence/strength of the fingers. It's bloody difficult.
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still struggling with the first one... it looks so easy on paper :/
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I see...
I'm no shredder or wot-have-u, not even remotely, I'm just this blues-er bloke... but I found these loads easier than I was expecting... :oops:
The second one takes a bit too much thought for me at the moment to make sure that three fingers always remain anchored - on this one I tend to have two anchored naturally, then the one that is about to fret and the next one are usually moving. But if slow right down, I can see what this exercise is giving me :D
The first one - sorry about this guys - if you ask me to play those notes, I naturally do exactly what the exercise is asking me to do :lol:
I've always assumed that this is the easiest way to play the wretched thing anyway:
- only move if you have to,
and, when you are at any "position":
- your index finger plays all notes required on the "1st" fret at that position,
- your middle finger plays all "2nd" fret notes,
- ring finger all "3rd" fret,
- little finger all "4th" fret
... no sneaking the middle up to the "3rd" fret, or forgetting that your little finger is for the "4th" fret notes... :lol:
Then you kinda step across strings as necessary, and move your "position" up and down the neck.... I do remember forcing myself to do this (20-odd) years ago, but I guess I was just lucky figuring that lot out when I was young.
So - those of you finding this somewhat "un-natural", DO IT UNTIL IT IS! You won't regret it... :lol:
OK, I'm prepared to entertain this chap's theories a bit more now... what's this about a 3rd eye? (probably turns out I've been doing that as well :roll:)
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and, when you are at any "position":
- your index finger plays all notes required on the "1st" fret at that position,
- your middle finger plays all "2nd" fret notes,
- ring finger all "3rd" fret,
- little finger all "4th" fret
... no sneaking the middle up to the "3rd" fret, or forgetting that your little finger is for the "4th" fret notes... :lol:
I do that part already, one-finger-per-fret.
But having my first finger on one string while the other 3 are anchored on a lower (i.e. musically lower, not closer to the ground!) string feels completely unnatural. As I say, they end up damping the string I'm trying to play.
I'm surprised no-one else has the same problem - I don't have sausage fingers!
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How much do you play chords Philly? Say, open chords like C and G. I was originally an accoustic guitar strummer and "arpeggio-picker", just to accompany my own singing - I did years of that before electric took over - but I had real problems getting all the notes to ring in simple chords like C and G sometimes. Eventually I got it sorted. Even now, if I haven't strummed chords for a while, it takes me a while to get back into it...
If it turns out you have the same issues on chords like that, it's probably the same thing. You could try strumming or picking open chords for a bit, concentrate on getting the best ringing chord you can - just to get the fingers seated nicely and remembering where they're meant to be going and how not to get in the way of the other strings when the brain gives them the orders. (IE do this separately from an exercise that's asking the fingers to move at the same time :lol:)
But on another issue
... ARGGGH!
I can't believe this... since I posted earlier, claiming "ease" on exercise one, I have had my tea, helped the wife rip a CD, sat down with my coffee, typed half the above to you... and now I can't do exercise one anymore!!! What?!!
Before tea, three fingers always rooted to the fretboard, widdly-widdly, ha-ha!, a suitable "I'm fab" response posted on BKP, everyone happy...
After tea... :( I just can't keep more than 2 fingers on the board when I switch string... I agree with the rest of you! It's not easy at all is it? I'm b*ggered if I can do it naturally now... :lol:
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... ARGGGH!
I can't believe this... since I posted earlier, claiming "ease" on exercise one, I have had my tea, helped the wife rip a CD, sat down with my coffee, typed half the above to you... and now I can't do exercise one anymore!!! What?!!
Before tea, three fingers always rooted to the fretboard, widdly-widdly, ha-ha!, a suitable "I'm fab" response posted on BKP, everyone happy...
After tea... :( I just can't keep more than 2 fingers on the board when I switch string... I agree with the rest of you! It's not easy at all is it? I'm b*ggered if I can do it naturally now... :lol:
:lol: :lol: That's cheered me up!
You've sussed me out on the chord front, I've always had trouble playing your basic "cowboy" chords and sounding all 6 strings cleanly. :(
As I hinted at the top of the thread, I don't really fret with the very tips of my fingers - more sort of halfway beteen the tip and the pad, so my fingers are slightly flattened against the board. I also tend to have my thumb over the neck, not planted on the back inna classical stylee.
So this is a complete technique re-adjustment for me. Which is fine I guess, but I don't really want to have the guitar strapped under my chin looking like this:
(http://jobconger.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/sc107.jpg)
Or even this:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3591/3337006280_c8592c3e1a.jpg)
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Yep, Johnny has officially spoiled Andyr's evening now...
An hour and sporadic but intensive practicing later...
... and ...
... it's even worse! And now I've got Philly-itis as well (strings getting muted by fingers rooted)
A few hours ago I could play guitar Johnny - now look wot you've done! I'm a quivering mess...
It seems fairly obvious to me that when I thought I was doing it OK earlier, I was, er, obviously proudly able to root appropriate fingers to the fretboard... as long as I was staying on one string! :roll:
I'm going back to old skool for a bit before the wife pulls the plug for the evening :lol:
(I am going to persevere with this though - I'm fairly sure it will add a certain dexterity, and therefore fluidity, to my playing...)
So, thanx for sharing this Johnny (b@stard! :lol:)
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Take it easy at first with these as they're designed to stretch your tendons. Don't over do it!
Careful now Andy, I know this has distressed you but...
It is quite hard on the hands - and it would be truly ridiculous if a cack-handed monkey like me ended up with tendinitis.
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:lol:
I hadn't seen that bit - but I could feel it doing it, so I wasn't pushing too hard (I hope :roll:)
Funnily enough, I just gave it another go after a half hour break - it was "gah" as before, and then quite suddenly it was really easy again for just over two runs, and then, as the smile started to cross my face, just as suddenly, it all fell apart... and we're back to "gah".
I have a horrible feeling there's some mystical mind stuff going on here as well as tendons getting stretched! :lol:
Right, the missus has gone that way already, so I'm off to bed to read me book instead! :D
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This is all normal. I was the same when Mr Miz said do this it improves your independent finger movement. The back of my hand was actually sweating after an hour and he sat there laughing at me! :lol:
Take it easy though. In a few weeks you will have it nailed and you will notice a difference in your playing. Once you get these, its like riding a bike.
Have a go at the Legato as well thats good practice.
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Er, I think that last diagram needs some explaining. Little help? :D
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Er, I think that last diagram needs some explaining. Little help? :D
3 notes per sting A Major scale in all positions.
H/O ascending P/O descending. Look at the fingering pattern as its the same in each position 1,2,4 or 1,2,3. On the right is a chromatic h/o, p/o exercise.
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Ok I think I got it now. I was trying to follow the directions that the arrows were pointing and it wasn't making any sense. I understand now that they're pointing out which box to move to next, but why are they all pointing at each other! :lol:
For those interested I have the next exercise:
(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/295/64703717.png) (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=64703717.png)
;)
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For those interested I have the next exercise:
(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/295/64703717.png) (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=64703717.png)
;)
I'm getting there, but I keep falling behind by a few klicks. And that Agent Orange I inhaled is playing havoc with my coordination. :(
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I did those lessons a while back - my teacher kept saying 'I love you long time, only 10 dollar'
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Napalm Deth?
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Yes the red lines link up all the scale positions. I've been working on this for a few years now and it doesn't come easy to me!
Sorry if i ruined your evening Andyr! :lol: Come on dude you play 13's doncha'! :wink:
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Yes the red lines link up all the scale positions. I've been working on this for a few years now and it doesn't come easy to me!
Sorry if i ruined your evening Andyr! :lol: Come on dude you play 13's doncha'! :wink:
:lol: Nah, only 11's...
You guys had me in stitches earlier when I saw the third set of "exercises" - the office was quite amused, I even had to explain the whole thread to my immediate neighbour...
Looking forward to examining the second set over the weekend.
We'll all be shredding like, er, shredders by Easter :lol:
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We'll all be shredding like, er, shredders by Easter :lol:
Maybe Easter 2012 in my case...
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Unless i'm doing this completely wrong then exercise 1 seems quite easy. Havent tried 2 yet though.
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Unless i'm doing this completely wrong then exercise 1 seems quite easy. Havent tried 2 yet though.
Are you keeping 3 fingers pinned to the board whilst only moving one?
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Oh, no I'm not. Bloody impossible now :lol:
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The nagging bump has arrived! How are they going? :D
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getting better, 3rd time I have practiced them. Don't have to think about it now
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The nagging bump has arrived! How are they going? :D
Some days I can (almost) do it and the fingers just sort of click into place, other days back to square one. Still sloth-like though.
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still not where i want them to be.. steadily improving
strangely i'm finding my little finger the hardest to control
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Its all good. This sounds about right for a week. I know I keep saying it but trust me these things really work and it is like riding a bike. :D Keep at it.
We should have a sticky thread for (guitar) tips and tricks!
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am I doing this right?
I've got my fingers fretting underneath the string I'm playing and moving each one so it's fretting the string I'm playing?
and you don't need to move them back apart from the ring finger exercise 2? or should I only have 1 finger fretting on the string I'm picking?
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am I doing this right?
I've got my fingers fretting underneath the string I'm playing and moving each one so it's fretting the string I'm playing?
and you don't need to move them back apart from the ring finger exercise 2? or should I only have 1 finger fretting on the string I'm picking?
Think of exercise 1 as a basic chromatic scale. Start at the 6th string 1st finger 1st fret, 2nd finger second fret 3rd f, 3rd frt, 4th f, 4th frt. Then with fingers 2, 3 & 4 still in their positions, move 1st finger to 5th string at the first fret and so on until you reach the 1st string and then descend back to the 6th string. Move up a fret and repeat. Go up to around the 15th and work back again.
Exercise 2
Start at the 1st string, 1st fret, 1st finger. Then 1st string, 3rd fret, 3rd finger.
With those fingers still in those positions, 2nd string, 2nd finger, 2nd fret. 2nd string, 4th finger, 4th fret and so on until you reach the 6th string.
All fingers off. 6th string, 1st fret, 1st finger. 6th string, 3rd fret, 3rd finger. 5th string, 2nd fret, 2nd finger. 5th string, 4th fret, 4th finger.
And so on until you reach the 1st string again. Move up a fret and repeat. Keep going until the 15th or higher if pains your thing and work your way back to the start.
You will find ascending with exercise 2 harder than descending, also the wider the span the harder it will feel, especially working back from the higher parts of the fret board. If your hand goes numb, stop and shake the blood into it and it should recover. You really need to get your fingers at a right angle to the fret board to make this work. If you look at some of the contortionist positions Eddie Van Halen gets his left hand into that should give you an idea!
I hope this helps! :D
Also alternate pick both throughout and your killing two birds with one stone!
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if I practice enough will I be able to play like this guy? :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BynUZOJc8QI
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if I practice enough will I be able to play like this guy? :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BynUZOJc8QI
Oh God no not him again! :lol:
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Here's some more stuff, I only got it back last night after a friend borrowed it. Its about improvising, scales and ear training.
The guy who wrote all this is Ande Flavelle. It's called Sound Connection Vol 1. I bought this mail order from the states in 1989 but obviously its all still relative. He still sells this book online and has loads of licks in it for building your chops up and there all from famous songs from loads of established guitrists. Lots on Van Halens tapping. Slide. Modes. Harmony, Ect. They come with CDs as well, its a great book better than some of the more modern ones I've bought.
PM me for an email of these if they're not to clear and hard to read!
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/Johnnymac1965/1.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/Johnnymac1965/2.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/Johnnymac1965/3.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/Johnnymac1965/4.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/Johnnymac1965/5.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/Johnnymac1965/RS1.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/Johnnymac1965/RS2.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/Johnnymac1965/RS3.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/Johnnymac1965/EarTraining.jpg)
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Cheers JM! You've got to get this thread stickied!
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Cheers JM! You've got to get this thread stickied!
Good idea Philly! I'll ask Ben. :D
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Nice one Johnny :D
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expanding his third eye(@Ass)!
:lol:
This is a serious mean joke in Brazil :P
Yeah, i agree. expanding the THIRD EYE(Brazilian meaning)
HAHahAHahAHahAHaaH tHE xxx wAY OF COURSE.
WTH are Spider Exercises?
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Nice one Johnny.
Just seen these and had a quick go. I'm finding exercise 2 a bit easier than exercise 1. With exercise 1 I seem pretty incapable of moving my ring finger without lifting my pinky. :)
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I found a slightly unnerving experience at one point of staring at my hand and willing my ring finger to move and it just wouldn't.Those either side did but the ring finger wasn't going to budge. I found that if I backed off in the brain department it worked a whole lot better.
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Exercise 2 is easier descending than ascending and the ring finger not budging is very normal at first. It still feels stubborn even when you get the hang of it.
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Now then, hands up who's given up! :lol:
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Still been going through it, about three times in the last month though. It gets easier
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Now then, hands up who's given up! :lol:
Pretty much. :oops:
I still have the occasional run-through, but it never really got any easier.
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i'm working these into my daily practice routine now. even the first one was very difficult the first time i tried it, but its all getting easier now... i've only done them twice though... today will be my third day. we'll see if i run into your guy's problems where all of a sudden things get harder.
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Think it's about time I started having a go at this, after this weekend's royal visit (in-law family with very high standards of cleanliness - eek!), especially as now most of the DIY is done in the house. Should I PM you to get hold of them, Johnny? Or am I being a dimwit and missing them attached further up?
Roo
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Think it's about time I started having a go at this, after this weekend's royal visit (in-law family with very high standards of cleanliness - eek!), especially as now most of the DIY is done in the house. Should I PM you to get hold of them, Johnny? Or am I being a dimwit and missing them attached further up?
Roo
Yes its on the first post. Once you memorise the sequence you shouldn't have to refer back to it.
They are a right bar-steward to start with but its like riding a bike after a while. Very effective i think. Beats housework or DIY. Those 3 note per string major legato things are worth getting into as well.
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As another exercice for fingers independance it might be interesting, in addition, to pratice some spider chords : This video here from Mustaine / Navarro explains what a spider (5) chord is and how to play them. 8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-twpY_XQyg&NR=1
The fingering is quite simple, and you'll find here after 4 basic exercices you can combine to practice on that if you wish. To be efficient, during the exercices your fingers need to release the pressure on the unplayed strings.
First exercice : ascending the fretboard
the fingers playing the (5) chords on the A and D strings are fingers 2 and 4 and the finger playing the (5) chords on the E and A string are fingers 1 and 3.
1.A /
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|-4-----5------6-----7------8------9----10----11-------12-----13-----------etc|
|-2--3--3--4--4--5--5--6--6--7--7--8--8--9--9--10--10--11-11-12-----etc|
|----1------2-----3------4------5-----6------7------8--------9------10-------etc|
1.B/ same started with the chord on E & A strings
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| ----4-----5------6-----7-----8------9-----10-----11-------12------13-----etc|
|-3--2--4--3--5--4--6--5--7--6--8--7--9--8--10--9--11--10--12--11---etc|
|-1-----2------3------4-----5------6-----7-------8-------9-------10---------etc|
Second exercice : descending the fretboard
the fingers playing the (5) chords on the A and D strings are fingers 1 and 3 and the finger playing the (5) chords on the E and A string are fingers 2 and 4
2.A / the closest to the video
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|-12------11------10------9-------8----- 7-----6------5-----4------3--------|
|-10--13--9--12--8--11--7--10--6--9--5--8--4--7--3--6--2--5--1--4----|
|------11------10------9-------8------7----- 6-----5----- 4----- 3-----2-----|
2.B/ same started with the chord on E & A strings
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|------12------11------10------9-----8----- 7-----6------5------4-----3----|
|-13--10--12--9--11--8--10--7--9--6--8--5--7--4--6--3--5--2--4--1---|
|-11-------10------9-------8-------7---- 6----- 5----- 4----- 3-----2-------|
You can try picking each chord or picking one up and hammering the other as shown at the end of the video (at 1'40s), which makes it a little tricky to sound well.
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here's something I've been meaning to learn, got it off jeff waters, aka that bloke out annihilator
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2350/spiderwalkjeffwaters.gif)