Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Madiac on March 22, 2009, 12:41:09 PM
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Hello, i was wondering what you guys opinions are on some no-name guitar parts that you can find on some guitar parts sites. Is it true that some no-named parts that are less than half the price, but same style/materials can be just as good quality if not better? Is there a slight pay for the name thing going on with stuff like bridges, etc?
Whats your experiences?
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In response, I have just 7 words:
Rhythm in jump. Dancing close to you (http://www.guitarsatbmusic.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9544&st=0&sk=t&sd=a).
Roo
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Hmmm... I'll be a little more forgiving than Roo...
It depends what you get. Do you pay £30 for a Telecaster control plate, or a pattern one for a fiver? Or the jack housing - go for a 'name' brand, or an imitation?
I think that it's worth spending the money on things that will make a real difference. Spend money on a decent bridge, decent tuners, decent electrics etc. But I'm happy to use cheaper stuff elsewhere.
I suspect others will disagree..!
Mark.
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It's a tough question - if you buy cheap unbranded parts you can usually tell straight away that the plating and polishing isn't such good quality. What's harder to judge is the quality of the metal itself, and whether it's been hardened to make it fit for purpose - especially important with things like tremolo systems.
Having said that, I don't have very much experience of the cheaper stuff. I usually buy branded parts - Gotoh (or TonePros), Schaller, some Fender, Callaham. Are they actually "worth" 2, 3, 4 times the price? Maybe not, but they're certainly very good.
I did try one of the cheaper Wilkinson tremolos (as used on Vintage guitars) and it's actually very well made, although they've clearly saved money on the screws and springs. But in that case, even though the parts are made cheaply, Trev Wilkinson is prepared to put his name on them so you assume there's a degree of quality control.
Personally I'd steer clear of the really cheap, totally unbranded stuff because - I suspect - you get what you pay for.
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Reason why im curious is that a luthier had tried out a cheap hipshot style hardtail bridge for quite a bit less than half the price, i think maybe even 1/3rd and was really impressed and went as far as to say it wasnt in anyway less good than a real hipshot bridge of the same type.
Basically, its this (http://www.allparts.com/store/images/fullsize/SB_5105-010.jpg)
vs this (http://gitarrdelar.se/images/HTB-201-CR.jpg)
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those hipshots are very well made bridges - i like them a lot
not tried a cheap hardtail like that but i have tried many others and the hipshot is still my favorite
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One of the classic problems with cheaper bridges is that the height adjustment grub screws are too long so they feel really irritating under your hand. And it's not easy to replace them.
Whereas the likes of Callaham and Graph Tech pay more attention to details like that, and use hardened/stainless screws which wont rust, etc. Often it's the things you can't necessarily see at first glance which make the difference.
I'm not saying that particular bridge has those issues, it may be excellent.
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One of the classic problems with cheaper bridges is that the height adjustment grub screws are too long so they feel really irritating under your hand. And it's not easy to replace them.
Whereas the likes of Callaham and Graph Tech pay more attention to details like that, and use hardened/stainless screws which wont rust, etc. Often it's the things you can't necessarily see at first glance which make the difference.
I'm not saying that particular bridge has those issues, it may be excellent.
God, and when i look at the picture comparison above it seems to have just what you pointed out about the grub screws.
However, what about for example just buying that bridge and changing the saddles? I think itd still be cheaper than the hipshot
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One of the classic problems with cheaper bridges is that the height adjustment grub screws are too long so they feel really irritating under your hand. And it's not easy to replace them.
Whereas the likes of Callaham and Graph Tech pay more attention to details like that, and use hardened/stainless screws which wont rust, etc. Often it's the things you can't necessarily see at first glance which make the difference.
I'm not saying that particular bridge has those issues, it may be excellent.
God, and when i look at the picture comparison above it seems to have just what you pointed out about the grub screws.
However, what about for example just buying that bridge and changing the saddles? I think itd still be cheaper than the hipshot
Well, of course it'll depend on the particular guitar whether or not the screws protrude. If it has a bit of a back-angle on the neck it won't be a problem.
You might be able to get replacement saddles, but it isn't always easy - for example, Graph Tech make 55-56mm saddles to fit vintage Strats, and 52.5mm saddles to fit modern Strats, but don't make 54mm saddles to fit certain Gotoh and Wilkinson bridges (although there's probably enough leeway to use the narrower saddles, with tiny gaps between them).
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Reason why im curious is that a luthier had tried out a cheap hipshot style hardtail bridge for quite a bit less than half the price, i think maybe even 1/3rd and was really impressed and went as far as to say it wasnt in anyway less good than a real hipshot bridge of the same type.
Basically, its this (http://www.allparts.com/store/images/fullsize/SB_5105-010.jpg)
vs this (http://gitarrdelar.se/images/HTB-201-CR.jpg)
What you cant see in there is the quality of the metals and the tolerances of the engineering.
I'm not saying you cant get a good cheap bridge. I'm saying its much less likely. You get incorrect string spacing, more wear on the saddles, string-cutting burrs, poorer adjustablity, that manner of thing. You might not, even on the material side - theres variation in the quality of metals used, but you'll have to cross your fingers before you order, and you wont realise it sucks unitl
- you string up
- you start to break loads of strings
- you try to adjust it
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Hmmm... I'll be a little more forgiving than Roo...
It depends what you get. Do you pay £30 for a Telecaster control plate, or a pattern one for a fiver? Or the jack housing - go for a 'name' brand, or an imitation?
I think that it's worth spending the money on things that will make a real difference. Spend money on a decent bridge, decent tuners, decent electrics etc. But I'm happy to use cheaper stuff elsewhere.
I suspect others will disagree..!
Mark.
Well Suspected!
For the few extra quid you may as well get a nice nickle control plate and electro socket jack for a tele, otherwise a few parts of you guitar shine like a cheap toy while the rest refelct their deep classy nickle hue.
Perhaps's I'm anal about this but I think even how the control plate looks on a Tele affects the whole vibe of the guitar.
And don't you know nickle control plates sound much better than the cheaper chrome ones.... :D
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I'm assuming the cheaper bridge is this one,
http://www.wdmusic.co.uk/product/FIXED_BRIDGE_HUMBUCKER_CHROME_WDFBHC#
It certainly looks a lot like it.
I've used the WD bridge on this http://www.legraguitars.co.uk/mg602m.htm among others, and it's a perfectly functional no nonsense piece of kit. It is very different to the Hipshot version; all the parts have an "as cast" finish under the chrome whereas the Hipshot bridge has a lot of machine finishing which reduces the tolerances. The materials are also different if I recall, aluminium alloy vs stainless steel so it's not going to sound the same.
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are they the same as the £15 ebay ones?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hardtail-bridge-6-saddle-brand-new-in-black_W0QQitemZ360140672668QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Guitar_Accessories?hash=item360140672668&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
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Looks like they probably came out of the same factory Wez. The Chinese a bunging out guitar parts like this at an alarming rate aren't they? Does make one wonder about the material specs; I just tried drilling a cheap tail piece off an Epiphone Les Paul, wouldn't take an 0.052" string, it immediately fused itself to the drill bit, snapped it and threw the whole assembly across the workshop. Reckon it must made out of melted down Spitfires or something. :lol:
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Basically, its this (http://www.allparts.com/store/images/fullsize/SB_5105-010.jpg)
vs this (http://gitarrdelar.se/images/HTB-201-CR.jpg)
I'm not an expert on stuff like this but just looking at the pictures you can tell one is good qulaity and the other isn't as good. The screws have been commented on before but the springs look nice and uniform on the top one and not so nice and uniform on the bottom one. I'm not sure if this means anything or is an indicator of quality though!
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Basically, its this (http://www.allparts.com/store/images/fullsize/SB_5105-010.jpg)
vs this (http://gitarrdelar.se/images/HTB-201-CR.jpg)
I'm not an expert on stuff like this but just looking at the pictures you can tell one is good qulaity and the other isn't as good. The screws have been commented on before but the springs look nice and uniform on the top one and not so nice and uniform on the bottom one. I'm not sure if this means anything or is an indicator of quality though!
Problem is, the picture below looks like its been taken by the shop itself. For example, the pictures gibson post at their site to show their guitars are always "perfect looking" pretty much, while the truth is different, so i wouldnt really trust such an image as on the hipshot bridge, but i kinda agree, but well see. The one i posted does not seem to be the same as the wd music one, atleast not the saddles. But then again, the bridge part itself cant make any real difference right? Isnt it pretty much the saddles only? So wouldnt the bridge pocket itself be unimportant, and then you could just upgrade saddles. What worries me is that i dont think you can change the bridges right off, since the bottom cheaper one fits with 5 smaller screw holes while the hipshot one fits with 3 larger ones.
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The bridge material will change the tone. Everything has some effect, its like an aluminium tailpiece on a LP makes a change, and thats not a saddle.
Also it could be a cheaper metal, you may have your action set, and slowly the bolts wear into the baseplate creating buzz. Either that or the bolts themselves wear.
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the hipshot ones i have had (about 5-6 iirc) have been as perfect as they look in the photo's. infact, although i havnt used that exact cheapo bridge i have used similar ones and i would say the photo's are quite representative of what you get
the big difference you will notice when comparing them side by side off a guitar is that the hipshot is pretty solid with almost no movement of parts. this is down to the accurate machining, higher quality of materials and decent springs and grub screws holding everything in place pretty much where you set them
whilst cheaper hardtails can be just fine i havnt found one that feels as solid as a hipshot
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Damn it, oh well, the story is i decided to get a scalloped guitar, was thinking of getting the beautiful Feline/Bc rich slinger, but then decided i did not want a floyd. Then i came up with a custom built idea based on the allparts scalloped strat neck all maple.
So i found a builder, decided for a cool body shape, mix of a strat and sg, based on a 60s yamaha SG (not the more popular sg-2000 etc shape), oiled swamp-ash body, with one humbucker in bridge, fixed bridge, NO tone controls or switches, just straight to the jack like i want to. The thing is, he did recommend one of the cheaper bridges and said it was great, and so i went with it, but then i started getting regretful thoughts and made this thread (haha), thing is, he had already mounted that cheaper bridge (Which another person confirmed was very good for the price, but might not be just as good as a hipshot).
But in the end, i ended up deciding for him to plug the holes and mount get a instead since according to him atleast the string spacing (body-through) was correct, so im getting a guitar with dowel plugs in it before its even finnished, but thats what ill pay for being a dumbo... wont be noticeable with the bridge on anyway but still. But hopefully i wont regret the decision haha. However, that bridge might actually have been pretty good, but i played it safe once again (doh)
Thanks for the advice, and no sadly this guitar isnt getting a BKP, because this Luthier likes to wind his own pickups, so ill try that for now!:)
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... because this Luthier likes to wind his own pickups, so ill try that for now!:)
Hope it's not the bloke in the link that Roo posted the other day!!
In response, I have just 7 words:
Rhythm in jump. Dancing close to you (http://www.guitarsatbmusic.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9544&st=0&sk=t&sd=a).
Roo
Wasted a good couple of hours following that link on sunday - it was quite amusing though...
Anyway, if those dowel plugs are under the bridge - just try and forget them :lol:
Hope it turns out well :D
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Yeah, i might post some pics when its complete ( est 2 weeks maximum), i doubt it will be the same dude who made the guitar Roo linked to haha (i also followed that link, hilarious stuff) , im in Sweden, and thus its a Swedish luthier, and im kinda annoyed since i turned in the Feline SG for the setup and 1 meg pot change + another little goodie, early last week, and i still havent got i back (although one cant expect such a job to go much faster), and ive been without an electric for a week, which is way to much for me 8)
Yes, im way to unpatient :?
I can live with the dowels i think, im trying to be less picky with such things..
ENOUGH RANTS, im starting to feel like a whiny crybaby
Good night!