Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: fatbagg on March 22, 2009, 09:01:04 PM

Title: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: fatbagg on March 22, 2009, 09:01:04 PM
Ok.  I have the PK in my bridge, and...its alittle too aggressive for me, to much edge.   Im wondering if its too powerful or pushing my amp harder than i need cuz its getting hard to get a smoothness in the gain I used to get...

SO...here we go again...

Usa Dean ml, ,mahogany body, set neck, spalt top (1/4") and ebony fretboard.  I play lead guitar for the most part in my band, and REALLY need to stand out clear and warm...I spend most of my time playing fast legatto and alternate picking runs...but I think the PK is alittle too in your face, as it brings more gain and edge out...which gets alittle confusing in the mix (with an el34 amp). 

Maybe I need something alittle less output and a bit warmer?   Maybe holy diver, or VHII?  I dont know...HELP!!!

I would like something NOT bright, with the mids centered alittle lower.  Bridge position.
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: MDV on March 22, 2009, 09:06:35 PM
Holy divers not a bad call, but I havent played one yet, so cant say for sure.

The MM is the smoothest of the high outputters I've used, its still bright, but its a bit less powerfull, more fluid and cuts through beautifully.
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: Twinfan on March 22, 2009, 10:12:56 PM
The Holydiver is what you seek  :)
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: pagan7 on March 22, 2009, 10:16:10 PM
I'd say go for something with an alnico magnet for less biting attack........like a Nailbomb !!!
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: discofudge on March 22, 2009, 10:19:31 PM
Crawler?

Might be a bit too warm.
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: dheim on March 22, 2009, 10:26:12 PM
i'd say nailbomb. at least it works for me, and i cover your role in my band. HD could be even too warm...
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: MDV on March 22, 2009, 10:53:34 PM
Crawler?

Might be a bit too warm.

Not a bad idea, actually. Probably the most versatile pickup on the planet. When I had my set, in an Epi LP, one minute i was bluesing out on it, the next it was hanging with my bandmates 81 playing tech death metal.

It may not be the BEST pickup for any occasion, but I cant imagine any where it wouldnt work.

I might get another actually.
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: ericsabbath on March 23, 2009, 05:31:29 AM
the holy diver has the best bridge lead tone I've heard, specially when boosted
but I think I would get a nailbomb instead
win/win situation, anyway
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: Antag on March 23, 2009, 11:28:56 AM
Stick with the PK - my first impressions (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6985.0) were quite similar to yours.  I found it very "in yer face" & didn't like the clean sound at all, but I've come to appreciate the PK more & got used to the differences from my favourite Holy Diver.

On the subject of other pickups, Miracle Man is a good call from MDV.  It's similar power-wise, but smoother with much less mid push into the amp.

Holy Diver would probably work - it's warmer than the PK, a little less power (but still enough for most metal), more rounded in the highs, far superior clean tone.  IIRC Tim recommended against it in Explorers or large bodied mahogany guitars (can't find the post), but I have a Holy Diver in my all-mahogany Jackson Kelly & it works pretty well (I even recorded a clip (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12997.0) with it) - the one difference is that my Jackson is neck-thru rather than set...
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: Dr. Vic on March 26, 2009, 03:11:43 PM
Why not Cold Sweat ? Isn't this one the closest to the Dimebucker / L-500XL, that will fit the Dean pretty well ??

It's true this pickup is bright and maybe the clearest in the BKP range, but maybe it will sit well on a big mahogany body. And I think you said you don't want a bright pickup because you are afraid of the too much edge you had with the PK, but I suppose it won't be the same with the CS, and it is worth considering it in this guitar... (Tim and the others here, will confirm if the brightness of the CS will be a problem for you).

The CS is still ceramic (so you keep the tight-bass-chug-you-need), and the Eq is very balanced, with very smooth mids, as far as I understand it.  The cleans are great too.
 PDT_003
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: fatbagg on April 03, 2009, 08:26:41 PM
I dont need a bright pickup...The dean USA is brighter than their oversea's, and I personally think the l-500 and dimebuckers are way to piercing and thin/shrill for my tastes.

Im playing on a cornford hellcat...which is very upper midrange heavy, and has TONS of gain...maybe I need a lower output model, with SMOOTH treble side, and good bass and lowmid response...

The poainkillers are awesoime, but they have a similar sound to the hellcat, so its too much upper mid spikyness going on, and they push this amp WAY to hard, it gets sizzly.
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: dheim on April 03, 2009, 11:36:49 PM
I dont need a bright pickup...The dean USA is brighter than their oversea's, and I personally think the l-500 and dimebuckers are way to piercing and thin/shrill for my tastes.

Im playing on a cornford hellcat...which is very upper midrange heavy, and has TONS of gain...maybe I need a lower output model, with SMOOTH treble side, and good bass and lowmid response...

The poainkillers are awesoime, but they have a similar sound to the hellcat, so its too much upper mid spikyness going on, and they push this amp WAY to hard, it gets sizzly.

you described holy divers, then!
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: Dr. Vic on April 04, 2009, 01:28:50 PM
I dont need a bright pickup...The dean USA is brighter than their oversea's, and I personally think the l-500 and dimebuckers are way to piercing and thin/shrill for my tastes.


BUT maybe you have first to choose between Ceramic vs AlnicoV. Even if the MM is the smoothest in the ceramic range it will always be brighter than an Alnico V.


you described holy divers, then!

^+1

But the body of the ML is quite a big slice of mahogany, don't know if the HD wouldn't be too bass-boomy (that's just a question).






Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: ericsabbath on April 04, 2009, 04:49:58 PM
you described holy divers, then!

^+1

But the body of the ML is quite a big slice of mahogany, don't know if the HD wouldn't be too bass-boomy (that's just a question).


well.. it doesn't sound boomy in les pauls
his guitar has ebony board and spalted maple top
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: MDV on April 04, 2009, 05:20:46 PM
The top and likely, unless its high grade stuff (very unlikely) the board wont make much difference.

Spalted maple tends to kill vibration anyway, starting with high end, so if theres an appreciable amount on there it will dull the tone of the guitar (its sonic properties are, by all accounts, quite abysmal - its because all the black lines in it are fungal infection and the grain there is destroyed; its just a patchwork of bits of wood)
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: Dr. Vic on April 14, 2009, 02:18:21 PM
I always liked the spalted maple looking, it's very beautiful imo...I knew its effect on the sound was more 'neutral' than a regular (bright) maple top, but I didn't know it tends to kill the vibrations so much so that I'm not sure I'll buy a mushroomy-guitar one day !

 :lol:
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: MDV on April 14, 2009, 02:28:05 PM
Spalt can be gorgeous.

Has to be said, though, a 5mm or less (which that will be) top of anything wont make much/any difference to the sound.

But spalt is most certainly not used for its tone. Its pretty, but it sounds cr@p. Full thickness tops of it will kill a guitar.

Disclaimer - this information is, stricktly, anecdotal; I havent played a spalt guitar, but the anecdotes are from Tim (whos played an 18mm topped Organic and said it was accoustically dead), several tonewood suppliers, Bob and Jonathon when I was thinking of using it for a top, so pretty reliable sources!
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: Zaned on April 14, 2009, 03:38:05 PM
Yeah, that was a little surprise for me too when I was discussing about my custom strat, with the luthier. I brought up the possibility of using that spalted maple, but he put a piece of it in my hand saying that it's basically rotten (don't know if that the exact translation for the word he used) wood.

And that's what it felt like too. It does look gorgeous, but I would definitely go for a thin top if I'll ever gonna use it..

-Zaned
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: bareknucklehead on April 15, 2009, 09:13:09 PM
spalted maple. what about quilted maple?
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: Bradock PI on April 16, 2009, 01:23:27 PM
What about Maple Syrup or is that a little too sweet ?
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: LP_LOVER on April 16, 2009, 02:01:57 PM
Miracle Man.
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: HTH AMPS on April 16, 2009, 08:39:37 PM
I really wouldn't rule out the Cold Sweat - it's the most fat and organic sounding ceramic pickup I've ever heard.  It has nice cut, but wouldn't call it thin or bright at all (or anything like the Dimebucker/L500XL). 

I had one (cold sweat) in my Les Paul before changing over to Abraxas' for a while - just for something different (I still own the CS).  It will do anything you want in terms of rock and metal, plus it's not crazy-hot meaning the cleans are still nice.

Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: FernandoDuarte on April 16, 2009, 09:16:55 PM
spalted maple, but he put a piece of it in my hand saying that it's basically rotten wood.

That's what Spalted Maple is, maple attacked by evil fungus who kills it (but leave some awesome figures on wood)
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: MDV on April 16, 2009, 09:32:19 PM
spalted maple, but he put a piece of it in my hand saying that it's basically rotten wood.

That's what Spalted Maple is, maple attacked by evil fungus who kills it (but leave some awesome figures on wood)

Yup. Its a fungal infection.
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: FernandoDuarte on April 16, 2009, 10:19:54 PM
I just LOVE spalted maple...

Show us a pic of your ML or I'll curse you :P
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: MDV on April 16, 2009, 10:26:18 PM
Likewise. And, yes, pics or it doesnt exist!
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: Dr. Vic on April 21, 2009, 10:30:39 AM
Likewise. And, yes, pics or it doesnt exist!


^+1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: Dr. Vic on April 22, 2009, 09:40:55 AM
I really wouldn't rule out the Cold Sweat - it's the most fat and organic sounding ceramic pickup I've ever heard.  It has nice cut, but wouldn't call it thin or bright at all (or anything like the Dimebucker/L500XL).

What you say here is quite unexpected to me... Tim didn't recommend me the CS for my guitar, because of it's brightness over the other I was considering, like the PK... I think it will be helpfull to compare it with other pickups (relativity might help). So, if you are considering the contemporary line, can you list them from the brightest to the darkest (including the C-Pig and C-NB options) ?

And according to you which one would be the closest to the L-500 XL (if it's possible to say there is one in the BKP range). I remember a topic in which you were explaining that the PK would ressemble an EMG81, because of it's mids (whereas most people think the MM is the closest to the 81). It was very interesting to read that and you seem to be good at those comparisons !  8)

Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: dheim on April 22, 2009, 11:13:14 AM
PK has got nothing in common with the 81, except ceramic magnet...
not just in the sense that's way better sounding and not sterile etc... i mean they have a completely different tone. the 81 is bright, very scooped and has a tight and bottom end. PK has got megatons of mid and hi-mids. it's what the 81 misses in the spectrum!
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: gwEm on April 22, 2009, 11:34:28 AM
I can see what HTH meant with the EMG81 / Painkiller comment.

For me the Miracle Man is a more hard rock sound, not really similar to the 81 at all.
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: MDV on April 22, 2009, 12:07:16 PM
I agree with HTH, though as I recall his statement hes been a little misphrased here

The original comment, IIRC, was that the PK is most similar to an 81.

I know what he means.

Its got a lot of high mids that are very attacking, and a very tight bass that make it the most similar. Theres a long list of differences, but I agree in general with HTH on this.
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: Dr. Vic on April 22, 2009, 12:31:01 PM
Yes, I knew you agreed with him has you also post on that topic.  :lol:  And thanks for putting the exact words from him, anyway I wasn't toooo far as you got the idea.  :wink:

Oh and maybe I made another shorcut : my questions weren't only to HTH but of course, all of you..

So how would you classify the contemporary range for the brightest to the darkest ? (will help on that topic I think)

And which BKP is the most similar to the L-500 XL ?   
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: MDV on April 22, 2009, 12:59:17 PM
Brightest to darkest

Hmmm

Cold sweat
Painkiller
Miracle man
Nailbomb
Warpig
Holydiver

I'm tempted to swap the PK and MM. Really different high ends, hard to say. Some 'bright' is in treble there and some in high mids.

Most similar to the l500xl is the cold sweat.
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: Dr. Vic on April 22, 2009, 01:16:12 PM
Humm... well ... I was expecting a result close to this one. So it will be very interesting to see why HTH seems to think it otherwise :

I really wouldn't rule out the Cold Sweat - it's the most fat and organic sounding ceramic pickup I've ever heard.  It has nice cut, but wouldn't call it thin or bright at all (or anything like the Dimebucker/L500XL). 



Anyway, may I ask to also put the optional C-Pig and C-Bomb in the list ?  :) Thanks in advance ! :mrgreen:
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: MDV on April 22, 2009, 01:32:21 PM
I dunno about the c-bomb, but the C-pig is a fair bit brighter than the pig. Put it above the nailbomb (its close between the pig and the bomb - NB won with a more present high mid more than anything)
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: gwEm on April 22, 2009, 02:53:17 PM
I'm tempted to swap the PK and MM. Really different high ends, hard to say. Some 'bright' is in treble there and some in high mids.
I have a MM and PK in two identical construction steinbergers. PK definitely brighter, although it could be down to woods etc etc
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: MDV on April 22, 2009, 03:23:39 PM
I'll take that, gwem. Havent had them in the same guitar, just guessing from the amped and acoustic sounds of the guitars they've been in.
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: hunter on April 22, 2009, 03:51:21 PM

What about experimenting a bit more with "soft factors" like pickup height and wiring? If your guitar is 50s wiring at the moment, change to modern would help. Or pot values?

If you like the basic character of the pickup and the way it cuts through, but there's too much fizz and directness, lowering the pickup alone could already work wonders.
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: MVM on April 22, 2009, 05:26:52 PM
Brightest to darkest

Hmmm

Cold sweat
Painkiller
Miracle man
Nailbomb
Warpig
Holydiver

I'm tempted to swap the PK and MM. Really different high ends, hard to say. Some 'bright' is in treble there and some in high mids.

Most similar to the l500xl is the cold sweat.

never played the nailbomb but I agree about the others

the cold sweat is the closest to the l500xl, but way thicker, hotter and more middy
the l500xl LITERALLY sounds like a single coil compared to all of them

ps: it's Eric
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: dheim on April 22, 2009, 05:32:21 PM
Brightest to darkest

Hmmm

Cold sweat
Painkiller
Miracle man
Nailbomb
Warpig
Holydiver

I'm tempted to swap the PK and MM. Really different high ends, hard to say. Some 'bright' is in treble there and some in high mids.

Most similar to the l500xl is the cold sweat.

i substantially agree... i don't know yet where i'd place MMs, though... and i've got some doubt about CS/PK. they're both bright but in different ways. maybe CS has a bit more bass in addiction to the brighter upper range..
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: Dr. Vic on April 22, 2009, 06:31:51 PM
ps: it's Eric

Hey, nice to hear from you ! I was expecting you to come here anyway :lol:

But what am I reading here ? You agree with Yoda ? And you're changing your name for MVM, which is pretty close to MDV (maybe that's the next step !) Is the Sith turning to become a jedi ?  :lol:

Thanks for this precious input : forum rule number 2 can be applied now !  8)



Still calling HTH for some comment/details about his post ! :mrgreen:

I really wouldn't rule out the Cold Sweat - it's the most fat and organic sounding ceramic pickup I've ever heard.  It has nice cut, but wouldn't call it thin or bright at all (or anything like the Dimebucker/L500XL). 

 
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: gwEm on April 23, 2009, 01:03:43 PM
usually, words like 'warm' and 'organic' are more often applied to Alnico magnet based pickups... and they do have a sweeter sound...
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: Dr. Vic on April 23, 2009, 06:59:08 PM
I guess that's why he said :

I really wouldn't rule out the Cold Sweat - it's the most fat and organic sounding ceramic pickup I've ever heard.  It has nice cut, but wouldn't call it thin or bright at all (or anything like the Dimebucker/L500XL). 

Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: HTH AMPS on April 23, 2009, 10:29:18 PM
dunno how I missed this one, but anyway.  I'm generally not a fan of ceramic pickups and never considered the Cold Sweat at all until it was getting major love on the forum - once I tried it in my Les Paul I was blown away.  I wouldn't call it bright, there is a nice amount of upper-midrange 'cut' but it's a FAT sounding pickup with great grind - reminds me of Mick Mars' or George Lynch's tone.

I would say the Miracle Man is the most trebley BKP I've tried - wasn't my cup of tea.  The Nailbomb was quite bright in it's on way too in the upper mids but the treble was FAT (wierd, but thats how I remember it).

Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: Dr. Vic on April 23, 2009, 11:05:42 PM
dunno how I missed this one, but anyway. 

me neither  :lol: :lol:

I wouldn't call it bright, there is a nice amount of upper-midrange 'cut' but it's a FAT sounding pickup with great grind - reminds me of Mick Mars' or George Lynch's tone.
I would say the Miracle Man is the most trebley BKP I've tried - wasn't my cup of tea.  The Nailbomb was quite bright in it's on way too in the upper mids but the treble was FAT (wierd, but thats how I remember it).

Interesting to see you consider the MM brighter than the CS and the NB as also a bright pickup.
Would it mean you would consider the C-NB as even more bright than the CS too ?
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: ericsabbath on April 24, 2009, 05:28:50 AM
ps: it's Eric

Hey, nice to hear from you ! I was expecting you to come here anyway :lol:

But what am I reading here ? You agree with Yoda ? And you're changing your name for MVM, which is pretty close to MDV (maybe that's the next step !) Is the Sith turning to become a jedi ?  :lol:

Thanks for this precious input : forum rule number 2 can be applied now !  8)

Still calling HTH for some comment/details about his post ! :mrgreen:

I really wouldn't rule out the Cold Sweat - it's the most fat and organic sounding ceramic pickup I've ever heard.  It has nice cut, but wouldn't call it thin or bright at all (or anything like the Dimebucker/L500XL). 

 

no frakin' way
I have become more powerful than any Jedi  :x
 :lol:
MVM is my friends account (Marcus Vinicius Magnani)
I made this account for him and sometimes I use it at work cause I can't remember my own password (it's saved at home)  :lol:

the miracle man has more treble than the cold sweat, but it's still fatter and LESS bright
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: Dr. Vic on April 24, 2009, 01:18:44 PM
Well, that's a relief !
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: HTH AMPS on April 24, 2009, 03:30:22 PM

I wouldn't call it bright, there is a nice amount of upper-midrange 'cut' but it's a FAT sounding pickup with great grind - reminds me of Mick Mars' or George Lynch's tone.
I would say the Miracle Man is the most trebley BKP I've tried - wasn't my cup of tea.  The Nailbomb was quite bright in it's on way too in the upper mids but the treble was FAT (wierd, but thats how I remember it).

Interesting to see you consider the MM brighter than the CS and the NB as also a bright pickup.
Would it mean you would consider the C-NB as even more bright than the CS too ?

never tried a C-NB, but knowing how ceramic magnets change the tone I'd say a C-NB would possibly be more to my taste - I'd expect more/tighter bass, less mids and not quite as fat a tone on the treble strings.
Title: Re: PK too aggressive, not quite warm enough...suggest me?
Post by: Dr. Vic on April 24, 2009, 03:33:10 PM
Thanks for the reply and sorry for having called you so loud here yesterday !  :mrgreen: