Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: MDV on March 24, 2009, 08:04:31 AM
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Currently using a powerball with an EQ20 in the effects loop. Great sound. But I'm starting to want for some things. I want more grit, bite and punch, mainly. As always, tight, fast bass, heavy as $%&#, saturated and aggressive but ultra-clear; that sort of thing (things one would choose a powerball for!).
Some other recent attempts, to give you an idea what else I like and dont
- Uberschall. Too dark and loose. Didnt like it. At all.
- Deliverance. Lacked the requisite low end. No snarl and growl; bit farty. Too dark. Great lead sound though.
- VH4. Liked the tightness and deepness, liked the aggression, saturation and attack, didnt like that high gain sound had no 'chime' left in it. Instant 'black album' sound. No longer sounds like theres a guitar string vibrating in there. Decent, but...sterile, too hifi.
- Herbert. Woofy.
- 5150. Too dark.
Previous amps of note
- Screamer. Brittle and harsh
- TSL. Thin and woolly.
Where does the Cobra fall? Soundclips are very promising, but you know how that is.
Anything else I should look at?
The only way I can get one, as far as I can tell, is to order blind off thomann, so anything you know would be nice.
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Mark, at the London bkp meet i was saying I was kind of thinking about flogging my (Koch) Powertone II head and getting a Supernova (check the spec of this monster!) I don't know when that is yet but it sounds like you need a demo for elimination purposes!
When we get another London Bkp meet arranged, that would be a good time to have a go! Even if its not for you, you would have a great day :D
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"For elimination purposes" :lol: I'm not that fussy.
Ok, yeah, I am.
Sounds like it would indeed be a great day (but could well fall victim to the reasons i didnt go to the last two, in manc and london: time and travel :( We shall see, however! and thanks for the offer!).
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I have a Cobra and a 5150. Honestly, with a mix of jj and Tad in the pre, the 5150 doesn't sound dark at all. It has great mids and tight low end. I use it with a kfk eq and a bbe maximizer...but i also had the kt88 mod. However, even the "stock" 5150 of a friend of mine doesn't sound too dark...it has a great punch.
The Framus has EL34 in the power amp, it is more rough...more low end grunt! It is a bit darker than 5150, surely. But it is much more versatile, a great clean tone! And it has a double master volume switchable for solos
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hey MDV, have you tried an invader?
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I havent. Nor the savage. Both interest me rather a bit.
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if you keep the powerball there is the axe fx as well
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Who said anything about getting rid of the powerball?
Another amp, JDC. Another.
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lol, I'm out of ideas for amps now, but you've got me looking at savages on youtube now, I thought it was suppose to be a rock amp
what speakers you got in the bogner? I saw some interview with the diezel bloke the other day going on about g12k100s as having better low end than v30s and that they use v30s cos they suit more styles of music/tones (or something like that, not that I've ever swapped a speaker, I'll find the video if you want it)
btw nolly used to have a cobra, he's replaced it with a vh4, peterG who lives near him has an invader, so they probably have a good idea of the differences, and they know bulb who has an axe-fx and an invader so they might be the best people to ask
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Interesting that he replaced it with the VH4. I like the VH4, and I'd replace a powerball straight up with it, but the EQ makes a shite load of difference - enough for me to like what I got better. VH4 + EQ? Wish I thought of that before I went to try one!
I've heard the savage SLAY. Not in person alas, so I cant say with certainty what it can and cant do and how it sounds in any great detail, whether its better for me and such, but there are definitely some great metal sounds in that amp.
I'm on a standard uberkab - G12Ts and V30s. Been thinking about speakers, actually. Swapped some out before; can make a $%&# load of difference. More than valves, I reckon.
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I thought you stopped using the EQ in the loop after you got some clear tones, what settings do you use on the EQ and the amp?
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You should try a Diamond Nitrox.
Or if 1 channel is enough, a Soldano Avenger.
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Interesting that he replaced it with the VH4. I like the VH4, and I'd replace a powerball straight up with it, but the EQ makes a shiteee load of difference - enough for me to like what I got better. VH4 + EQ? Wish I thought of that before I went to try one!
Have you tried a VH4 + boost? :twisted:
The Cobra is a nice amp. It's bright, punchy and aggressive, with plenty of note definition and clarity, and a very tight low end. That's at high volumes though - quiet it's harsh and fizzy, and that's even after the much needed retube/rebias. The
Put the VH4 next to it and the Cobra gets completely wiped out by the huge midrange and low-end, and ends up as hissy fizz. The VH4 is equally tight, but darker and with the best clarity and note-definition I've come across (funny you should say it has no "chime" to it - to me it really does have that sparkle when you hit big chords under gain). Boosted, it's just ridiculous for metal, though the louder it gets, the less it needs the boost. Also, the inclusion of an extra channel really makes all difference for versatility.
Funnily enough after staying at mine, Misha (Bulb) has been trying very hard not to buy a VH4, though he has relented and bought a Diezel cab as a compromise.
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I change settings every time I use it. At the moment its something like
Using channel 4, mainly
Gain - 4
Bass - 6
open mids - 3
focussed mids - 0
treble - 8
pres - 6
depth - 5
All those can vary +/- 50% though. For leads I invariably smack the mids on max, for example.
Pre vol ~1
Power ~ 3
Obviously these are the most variable. Found I like the sound rather a lot more with the pre vol backed off. It gets more 3D and grittier as opposed to fizzier with the power section getting driven just a bit
Then I've got the EQ taking about 6db out of 400Hz and adding about 3db to 2 through 6k, mix about 30%. Improves the sound a hell of a lot when on but flat - I only recently started actually adjusting it.
Thanks for the suggestions hunter. Heard badness about both of those, though - the diamonds in sound and the avengers in reliability. But its worth a try, if they're available.
Whats the opinion on VHT/Fryette - sig x, PB UL.
Also, are there any valves and speakers that would grit it up and give it more punch and presence?
Dare I say it...mods?
The PB really is very close to what I want, it just lacks a certain edge.
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Interesting that he replaced it with the VH4. I like the VH4, and I'd replace a powerball straight up with it, but the EQ makes a shiteeee load of difference - enough for me to like what I got better. VH4 + EQ? Wish I thought of that before I went to try one!
Have you tried a VH4 + boost? :twisted:
The Cobra is a nice amp. It's bright, punchy and aggressive, with plenty of note definition and clarity, and a very tight low end. That's at high volumes though - quiet it's harsh and fizzy, and that's even after the much needed retube/rebias. The
Put the VH4 next to it and the Cobra gets completely wiped out by the huge midrange and low-end, and ends up as hissy fizz. The VH4 is equally tight, but darker and with the best clarity and note-definition I've come across (funny you should say it has no "chime" to it - to me it really does have that sparkle when you hit big chords under gain). Boosted, it's just ridiculous for metal, though the louder it gets, the less it needs the boost. Also, the inclusion of an extra channel really makes all difference for versatility.
Funnily enough after staying at mine, Misha (Bulb) has been trying very hard not to buy a VH4, though he has relented and bought a Diezel cab as a compromise.
Perhaps I need to revisit the VH4 with some additional weaponry (EQ, OD). It is a very nice amp.
I just found it too smooth, basically, or thats another way of getting at what I mean to say. Its got the best low end of any amp I've ever heard. Very nice and tight and deep. But its high end washes out the sound of a ringing guitar string that the PB manages to retain even under very high gain.
Interesting that you say the cobra is bright, but diurno thinks its dark. Very strange.
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Well since you mention speakers, I would think a high powered speaker might satisfy you.
What do you consider bite, grit and punch?
Bite: top end? Sidewinders deliver without being harsh
Grit: Mid push? traditional celestion sound but without breakup
Punch: bottom end? yup...
Hard to find though, maybe EVM12L ? won't deliver the same mids, and may give you backache though.
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Interesting that you say the cobra is bright, but diurno thinks its dark. Very strange.
I've said Cobra is darker then 5150. And my Cobra has a set of TT EL34B + a mix of JJ and Tung Sol. Re biassed a little warmer. My 5150 has surely more mids, definitely (JJ 6L6 + KT88...jj + tt in the pre). But the Cobra is bigger (but with a little less definition) in the low end.
Sincerely i have never tried to boost them. Do you think i should do it? I use, in the 5150, a KFK and the BBE maximizer and i'm very satisfied!
If you want to listen to some samples, here is my band...there are some songs:
www.myspace.com/crysalysband
(if i can't spam this address tell me and i'll cancel it)
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Interesting that he replaced it with the VH4. I like the VH4, and I'd replace a powerball straight up with it, but the EQ makes a shiteeeee load of difference - enough for me to like what I got better. VH4 + EQ? Wish I thought of that before I went to try one!
Have you tried a VH4 + boost? :twisted:
The Cobra is a nice amp. It's bright, punchy and aggressive, with plenty of note definition and clarity, and a very tight low end. That's at high volumes though - quiet it's harsh and fizzy, and that's even after the much needed retube/rebias. The
Put the VH4 next to it and the Cobra gets completely wiped out by the huge midrange and low-end, and ends up as hissy fizz. The VH4 is equally tight, but darker and with the best clarity and note-definition I've come across (funny you should say it has no "chime" to it - to me it really does have that sparkle when you hit big chords under gain). Boosted, it's just ridiculous for metal, though the louder it gets, the less it needs the boost. Also, the inclusion of an extra channel really makes all difference for versatility.
Funnily enough after staying at mine, Misha (Bulb) has been trying very hard not to buy a VH4, though he has relented and bought a Diezel cab as a compromise.
Perhaps I need to revisit the VH4 with some additional weaponry (EQ, OD). It is a very nice amp.
I just found it too smooth, basically, or thats another way of getting at what I mean to say. Its got the best low end of any amp I've ever heard. Very nice and tight and deep. But its high end washes out the sound of a ringing guitar string that the PB manages to retain even under very high gain.
Interesting that you say the cobra is bright, but diurno thinks its dark. Very strange.
Send an email to Diezel (use the tech email) they seem to be pretty helpful and he might be able to give you a heads up on how to get your ideal sound. Diezel are putting hemp cones in their new rear loaded cabs, so that might be worth considering. The new VH4's are shipping with 6550 valves opposed to the EL34's and they are supposed to be punchier (I think).
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I got another amp for you MDV, Mesa Boogie MK4/5 (although looking at the price I think it should come with it's own moon!)
I've got more axe-fx gas now from trying to find meshuggah's settings for it, it even takes your own cab impulses, if your just recording have you tried out revalver 3 yet? I found some post on the andy sneap forum comparing revalver with axe-fx and a 5150, I was quite impressed, and you can use as many 10 band parametric EQs as you want
just downloaded the axe-fx editor software to see what it can do, you can change the damp and sag and lots of other stuff I don't really understand
nolly: how does the diezel front loaded cabs compare to the orange cabs? (ain't orange cabs rear loaded?)
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Thing is if I send an email to diezel, they're going to steer me to diezel, and I'm not commited to that - its just one option. Its a favourite at the moment (or it will be in a couple of months when I can comfortably afford it), but there are other amps on the cards, as well as changing what I have (new valves and speakers, basically)
I know someone that has a Mk4; I might see if I can have a muck about with it.
On the one hand, the axe-fx keeps getting good reviews, on the other it costs as much as a real amp, the soundclips arent much better than other modellers, and I want an amp, not yet another computer. Plus its principle strengths are versatility and effects, and I dont use any effects and am after one main sound that fits me and my style well, not 98427209875928437584819401294 of them - I just muck about with it and dont actually play.
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Oh, and diurno - 5150s benifit greatly from a boost. Try it. Start with a ts808 or similar.
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i'm probably over-simplifying here, but do you want something which sounds similar to the powerball but "better", or something which sounds different to complement it (or give you a bit of a change when you need it)?
i haven't tried the cobra, unfortunately, that's why i stayed out of this until now...
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Similar but better. It has many characteristics that I thoroughly enjoy.
Oh, to be a pain - that is with the EQ, which does change things a lot.
But
I suspect a bit that its part of the problem,over processing. I'm gonna try the MXR 10 band.
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yeah, that's why i'm a bit scared to suggest anything, the EQ... i've never really used one. :lol: normally i can get the sound i want out of the amp (but i'm not after such br00talz tones as you)...
for similar but better (and that's based on what i remember the powerball sounding like, without an eq, several years ago), maybe SE? that's a ton of money, though. savage might be good too, but i haven't tried it. savage se is nice, but meant to sound a bit different (smoother?), so i can't say for sure how the savage sounds... that's if you want to stick with engl...
too many options, really, and you're in a better position to test them than i am- you aren't a million miles from sounds great and guitar guitar (isn't that right?)...
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Ordered the KK 10 band *hiss, spit*. I LOATHE using sig stuff, but no one seems to have the normal one and I can indeed get use from its second output. And its on amazon for 120. *shrug*. We'll see if thats any better.
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Oh, and diurno - 5150s benifit greatly from a boost. Try it. Start with a ts808 or similar.
Ok, suggest my the way i should use it! For example, low gain on the 5150 lifting it up with the dirve of the 808?
Anyway, talking about the TEN BANDS EQ, i put it in the 5150 loop...and honestly i love it so much. The 5150's eq doesnt work so good..resonance and presence are way better. But to build up a sound, the KFK is just amazing!
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Keep the gain low on both. If ones gonna have more than the other, then yeah, drop the amp gain and raise the pedals. Sharpens and tightens the sound up no end; much clearer, much more lively. There shouldnt be any need to take both over 5 - that would be insane. Less is more with this.
I dunno what it is with the EQ in the effects loop - worked a dream for my TSL as well. Just puts so much more body and definition in the sound even flat and on 30% mix. It'll be to do with the pedals non-true-bypass nature, manipulating the sound somehow, but in a good way!
Also, for EQing purposes, actually using it as an EQ, the loop is a much, much better place to put it. Thats where EQing is normally done anyway, after all: after the pre.
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Yeah, eq in the loop is the must! However i dont' go over 5,5 with no boost actually....if i'll find an used one i'll try it! Thank you!
Ps. I think i'll have to use a noise gate after all....or not? Now i have no need of it!
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If you dont think you need a gate, dont get one. An ISP decimator is one of my secret weapons, though. I dont use it 95% of the time, but a gate is like a condom - its better to have one and not need it than need it and not have it.
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nolly: how does the diezel front loaded cabs compare to the orange cabs? (ain't orange cabs rear loaded?)
Oranges are rear-loaded, as is my Diezel cab. The front-loaded Diezels are tighter and punchier than the Orange, very aggressive, but not harsh. Side by side, the Orange is darker and grainier, with a bigger, but looser low end. This is talking of the older cabs by the way, Diezel is now producing its cabs in situ at Dillingen, but I've not tried those yet.
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If you dont think you need a gate, dont get one. An ISP decimator is one of my secret weapons, though. I dont use it 95% of the time, but a gate is like a condom - its better to have one and not need it than need it and not have it.
:D :D :D Great description!!! Ihave had the ISP, but i've sold since it wasn't useful for me...but i'll search both for 808 or ts9 and the isp again!
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You can get the basic idea down with any OD of a reasonable standard, I'm sure. Tastes vary and those might not be the ones for you. Its just that my experience of it was with the 808, and it was a good one.
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the 808 has a mid hump which is why it's so good for tightening up the sound, andy sneap trick as I call it
there are like a million 808 clones out there but I think the best ones for metal are the ones with a bass boost and make sure you avoid ones where the mid hump has been taken out