Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Bradock PI on April 08, 2009, 10:35:42 PM
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Ok so my new Epiphone is going in for a set up, fret dress, new nut and I am tempted to have the luthier drop some BKPs in. I love the sound from my wifes Riff Raffs but they are in a sycamore body I am guessing I wouldn't want to go a long way from a classic les paul sound and at my age now I will never be in to really grinding metal. I do also have a lotta guitar playing friends so even though I cant get those great tones yet myself I can listen to them being played now and again for insperation. I listed elsewhere the stuff I listen too but classic rock 60s-90s prolly covers it with a few more recent grps. There is the background - if I can't resist what should I drop in there.
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"For a sweet and full clean tone through to harmonically rich overdrive The Mule is unstoppable, delivering the goods every time!
Built to the same specifications as the original PAF humbucker, The Mule is totally unyielding in its approach to definitive tone and construction.
The solid nickel silver baseplate and cover are exact replications of the original along with the butyrate bobbins, nickel plated slugs and Fillister no.5 pole screws, maple spacers and authentic braided hook up wire all made by hand for a lifetime of use."
Isn't it enough seducing ? :lol:
More seriously isn't the Mule the ultimate Les Paul sound ?
Or maybe a Crawler for a PAF on steroid feeling in a pure vintage package with a contemporary output (for something different from your riff raff AND really versatile)
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For Les Paul type tones, the standard choice is the Mule. This is a 'safe hands' bet, you won't go wrong.
If you want a little less power and a sweeter tone the Stormy Mondays would be a good choice.
If you'd like a little more bite and muscle, Black Dogs rules.
Sue has Black Dogs in her LP and they work really well, we were originally going to go for Mules, but the guitar is fairly bright for a LP so we went with BD's to tame it a little (Thanks for the advice Tim!)
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I suppose my favorite sounds are from 70s ish Purple, Floyd, Early Fleetwood, Tull, AC/DC.
Arn't the Riff Raffs like slightly hotter mules ??
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RR's are like '60's Patented pickups
Mules are like the ('57-'59) Patent applied for pickups, fuller in the mids, softer in the treble.
If I were you, wait a while and decide what you really want. It may not serve your best interests to get caught up in the tone quest so soon ;)
Ofcourse, the main question: Is the wood good enough to justify some quality pickups?
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We popped the RR in my wifes sycamore bodied Daisy Rock and they sound pretty cool it really kicks
The Epi I have is very resonant even the standard pickups kick way more than the others we tried which sounded muted by comparison. Off amp it really sings out very loud acoustically, guitar shop I went to has a luthier workshop and he fitted the DR with RR he gave the Epi the once over as well he said the acoustic response was a really good sign. Would always check with a pro if they thought the upgrade was worthwhile.
Its not a quest for tone but I do like a 'nice' sound I will no doubt be buying much better instruments in a year or two assuming I keep my practicing up.
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If I were you, wait a while and decide what you really want. It may not serve your best interests to get caught up in the tone quest so soon ;)
I agree, unless of course you've got the money to spare for a bit of experimentation.
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Mules are like the ('57-'59) Patent applied for pickups, fuller in the mids, softer in the treble.
I don't think so
regular 57-59 based pups (read seymour duncan and gibson pickups) are scooped and have a very sterile treble edge
the mule definitely sounds very different from those pieces of cr@p
maybe the true vintage ones were different, though :?
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I too vote for Mules , but you wont go wrong with a Stormy Monday either or Riff Raffs
I put Riff Raffs in one of my LPs (that Catalyst77 now owns) and the neck tone was superb, but felt that I wanted a fuller bridge sound than the Riff Raff gave in a Les Paul
I think both he and I thought that maybe a mule in the bridge would be a good idea , just to give it a bit more fullness in the mids.
Stormy Mondays are nice and smooth , but do a mean Slash tone if you like that kind of thing.
But my advice is that you wont go wrong wth a mule
Also do consider having the tone caps changed too
Either orange drops (which are pretty cheap) or hovland or Vitamin Q if you can stretch to it
Seems to make a huge difference, even when the tone is ful up for some reason
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In my Les Pauls I have the following:
Goldtop - PG Blues - I was playing this for hours last weekend - the middle position does give the out of phase sound. They are based off of Stormy Mondays but they do seem to have a bit more kick
53 Conversion - Black Dogs - Pure Jimmy Page - they really do give the Led Zep sounds in this guitar
Chambered Sunburst - Riff Raff/Stormy Monday - this combination is a really good sound because it has the very bluesy neck pickup and more power in the bridge. It is great for Wishbone Ash and then can still do the Thin Lizzy stuff too. Before that I had an Emerald/Mule combo which I now have in a Zemaitis - I got that for a Free/Thin Lizzy set of sounds and it really works well - the Emerald is A5 and the Mule is AIV, and the combo gives a little bit of the PG sound too.
All of them work really well, so without really knowing the songs you like from the classic rock era, I've tried to give you an idea of where they sit. The other thing is that your guitar will have a different sound to mine (all of mine sound different anyway), so there will be a bit of a difference there. The overall sounds should still hold up though.
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What would be the difference between orange drops and vitamon Q?
Worth changing the tone pots as well to CTS?
Thinking Mules or Mule/Stormy Monday ?
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RR's are like '60's Patented pickups
Mules are like the ('57-'59) Patent applied for pickups, fuller in the mids, softer in the treble.
If I were you, wait a while and decide what you really want. It may not serve your best interests to get caught up in the tone quest so soon ;)
Ofcourse, the main question: Is the wood good enough to justify some quality pickups?
from what i know epiphones are built with inconstant quality... mine is very good, maybe not like an actual les paul studio but good nonetheless. and definitely got better with warpigs!
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I am sure there are some epiphones out there that sound better than some gibsons out there, the pickup quality would always be there for comaprisons in the shop so you could never be sure how a particular gibson would improve with BKPs over say a particular epiphone the bell curve would tell you the gibson should sound better overall but I am not sure what overlap there would be so how many times it would be the other way round. I suspect that when you change the pickups the two curves move up and closer and there will be more overlap. That would happen from both a statistical and an engineering viewpoint.
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I suspect that when you change the pickups the two curves move up and closer and there will be more overlap. That would happen from both a statistical and an engineering viewpoint.
Hmmm, interesting. I have no back up for this view point, but my instinct is that installing a high quality pickup would actually increase the variation, as it would expose both the good and the bad. Good wood will really shine through and bad wood will be exposed. Where a lesser pup would hide the good wood and mask the bad, compressing the distribution.
So a good Epiphone will catch up to a poor or median Gibson, but a good Gibson will move away.
Or am I crazy? :?
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It is entirely possible that it would spread the curve as well it would depend on charateristics of the flaws and the pickups.
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Back on topic I was wondering if the tone range was expanded from the classic 60s/70s Bluesy rock tones to more 80s metal is there a pickup set that do both? I am aware that jack of all trades maser on none may apply but I suppose since this is a punt (My mother-in-law of all people is so pleased that we are learning guitar that she wants to buy me the pickups) to just improve the tone from the basic epi pickups I expect I should go for versatility over all else?
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I suppose my favorite sounds are from 70s ish Purple, Floyd, Early Fleetwood, Tull, AC/DC.
Arn't the Riff Raffs like slightly hotter mules ??
If you already have the Riff Raff, maybe you would try something else. So here are my suggestions in order :
1/ Mules is the 'safe choice' (can't go wrong with them for what you are looking for).
2/ BUT Black Dog as suggested before is a real serious alternative to consider, in the hot vintage range. They will bring you where you want, for sure.
3/ Then if you want to try something more output-wise than your Riff Raff (in order to taste something very different), my sugestion of the Crawler is not a bad call. This one is considered as one of the most versatile BKP, it does everything from blues-rock to metal. Have you listened to the demo clips ? Tim designed the AIV neck Crawler as a slighty hotter mule (7.6 DC instead of 7.3DC for the Mule). As for the bridge ? Well, Play 'the Jack' from AC/DC with the Crawler and feel the heat :twisted:
4/ Just a thought......Have you heard the Rebell Yell clip of S. Stevens ? This humbucker is one of the best classic rock sounding, less rounded and warm than the CR, somewhere in beetween the blues rock and metal you want, I expect him to be not too far away from the band you mentionned, and I suppose it will sit well in your epiphone too...
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I just been musing and I think one of my alltime favorite guitar sounds is the PGFM Green Manalishi
At the other of the scale as heavy as I like would be Sabbeth Ironman
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In picking up my guitar after its fettle I had a chance to listen to some black dogs in a Tokai and although they sounded good they did seem a little too middy to me? Is that me or mebbe the amp or have they a lot more mids than RR? The RRs are my wifes and in sycamore body these were in an LP style and presumably mahogony body?
I am begining to think I will try the Rebel Yells
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Black Dogs are quite middy, yes.
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Seems in the Mules vs Rebel Yell choice it's gonna be the Rebel Yells (probably! aka Carlsberg)
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How many folks have the etched covers on RY in chrome I am thinking they will look cool in the Tabaco sunburst epi LP?
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Update - RY ordered chromed and ray gunned - also new pots and caps - gonna try the vitamin Q ones thanks FG just a matter of waiting now
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Enjoy :good: