Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: dnamra13 on April 17, 2009, 02:12:47 PM
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I bought my explorer about two years ago, and now i feel like it's time for a pickup change. bare knuckle pickups caught my attention because of the good reviews all around the internet.
My explorer has a mahogany body with a mahogany neck and a rosewood fingerboard and it has still the stock pickups in it.
i want the bridge pickup to be more defined / articulate on the bass notes and i want my pinch harmonics to be more pronounced. so it needs be tighter pickup.
i want the neck pickup to be fluid sounding but also with more articulation on the bass notes because now it tends to get very mushy. Also the higher notes don't cut through enough.
i was also thinking of doing something cool with the wiring. i thought of being able to coil split each humbucker with two volume push pull pots and i would like to be able to use a push pull tone knob for an out of phase sound.
my favorite bands / songs are: slayer (think of tight staccato riffs), exodus (the toxic waltz), Testament (practice what you preach tone), Arch enemy, Death besides the metal i also like 80's hardrock stuff like ozzy and sometimes i like to do some gary moore stuff.
could you guys give me an advice on what to do. any help would be appreciated.
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Miracle men
Standard 4-conductor wiring
/thread
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what do you guys think of a Ceramic warpig in the bridge and in the neck a nailbomb?. i don't know much about the miracle man's but i liked sound clips of the warpig and the nailbomb in the neck.
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Too br00tal for the lighter stuff you want.
Almost too br00tal fort the heavier stuff you want.
Do not underestimate the power of the C-Pig.
Nailbomb neck would be good though.
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wow refreshing to know that, also is the wiring what i want possible. and would the splitting make a difference.
PS: do you own a miracle man / nailbomb ?
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Most....no, all of the sounds you want are humbuckers. Splitting wont do you much good. Tapping it will do you more good than splitting. Parallel would be great.
And
What do you think ;)
P.S. Welcome n00b :D
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I'd really suggest the Painkiller. Paikiller + Explorer = amazing.
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thx, yeah i'am still quite a noob at pickups. choosing pickups is a tricky business because everyone has their own taste. but i'am just glad that i found a forum were people actually care about tone and know their stuff. also i like to see what is possible with pickup combinations and different wiring.
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I'm normally with MDV on these things, although bear in mind that I have less experience with different pickups than him (I'm a 1-guitar guy!). With that said, I immediately thought of painkillers when reading the first post. Would be interested to hear what Tim says.
Roo
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He didnt say nuthin 'bout mids and mentioned some pretty smooth-midded sounds.
Pk could work for some
but MM could work for all.
Dont think I didnt thunk PK, but I think this is MM. It ticks more of the boxes.
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hmm.. dont know... explorers are naturally dark and fat
I'd pick a painkiller for slayer/RECENT testament/death or a cold sweat for exodus, classic old school testament, 80's stuff and SPECIALLY Pantera :D
the cold sweat harmonics are a bit less fat/pronounced and that's exactly a big part of its Dime sounding character
it's a very sharp, crunchy and aggressive pickup and was very overlooked for so long
my first choice for metal for most mahogany guitars
the miracle man is more bassy and modern sounding, but not like any of those bands, except recent Slayer and new Testament stuff
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the opinion of what to get is quite divided. i wish there was a way to try them out in person instead of going the trail and error route. youtube clips and other sound samples isen't the best way to decide.
but there is a clip of a guy playing a les paul with a calibrated nailbomb set. and i thought the neck pickup was smoking but i don't know how it will react to my massive explorer which lacks the maple top. but anyway i'am thinking of getting the nailbomb in the neck so now i need a bridge pickup.
warpig --> too much power
painkiller --> some say awesome others say it won't do all of the things i want
miracle man --> most versatile for my wishes others say it will be too dark sounding
cold sweat --> according to the description of the bare knuckle site this pickup is more a hard rock pickup.
---> i should say that i don't like dimbags tone. i got his picture as an avater because i like the music and the way he plays. my favorite thrash metal tone is disciples of the watch but not the version of the orignal album but the re-recording on First Strike Still Deadly.
and i forgot to mention lamb of god as band during my first post.
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A miracle mans never doing LoG convincingly. Nailbomb for that.
I need to re-hear some of these tones. Will comment again later.
Darth, new slayer, miracle man, really? I think not, sith lord!
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Do not understimate cold sweats :twisted:
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the opinion of what to get is quite divided. i wish there was a way to try them out in person instead of going the trail and error route. youtube clips and other sound samples isen't the best way to decide.
but there is a clip of a guy playing a les paul with a calibrated nailbomb set. and i thought the neck pickup was smoking but i don't know how it will react to my massive explorer which lacks the maple top. but anyway i'am thinking of getting the nailbomb in the neck so now i need a bridge pickup.
warpig --> too much power
painkiller --> some say awesome others say it won't do all of the things i want
miracle man --> most versatile for my wishes others say it will be too dark sounding
cold sweat --> according to the description of the bare knuckle site this pickup is more a hard rock pickup.
---> i should say that i don't like dimbags tone. i got his picture as an avater because i like the music and the way he plays. my favorite thrash metal tone is disciples of the watch but not the version of the orignal album but the re-recording on First Strike Still Deadly.
and i forgot to mention lamb of god as band during my first post.
dime tone = solid state nad few mids
that's up yo your amp and settings
the cold sweat generally fits thrash and some crossover stuff better cause it's not as bassy as the miracle man and has more balanced mids
the miracle man is more like machine head or something
the painkiller will do a pretty good job, so will the cold sweat and miracle man
and saying that a pickup is "hard rock" shouldn't be anything bad, consdering 80's hard rock bands used exactly the same pickups as the thrash bands, which are mostly the same pickups the metal bands use today (duncan jb, distortion, custom, bill lawrences, dimarzio super distortion...) :lol:
the cold sweat is at least 90% as hot as a miracle man or painkiller and definitely the one that would balance better with the explorer usual tone and retain a bit more articulation, since it's not overloaded with mids or bass
it's just perfect for the practice what you preach thing :D
I think a miracle man will be too modern, cause it's too growly and focused, which is great, but doesn't sound like what the things you mentioned, unless you want recent Slayer and Testament EMG voiced tones
my second choice would be the painkiller, which is voiced more like the stock 500t pickup
all the 3 have something in common with the 500t ceramic character (I had all of them and a 500t), but they all will be a huge improvement
comparing directly to the 500t I'd say:
miracle man: more growly on the low mids, more bass, tighter low end, way less center/upper mids, more piercing highs (but not shrill), easier harmonics, gets strangely bigger and more open the louder you set your amp, sounds darker on the lower strings, way brighter on the higher strings (like picking the strongest frequency and enhancing it a lot), similar output
painkiller: similar overall voicing, but absotelutely no mud through gain, way tighter bass, cleaner, not as grainy, more middy, better leads, stiffer response, a bit louder but not as "pushing hot"
cold sweat: similar low end to the painkiller (tighter than the 500t), but a bit warmer, less mids (but more than the miracle man), present and articulated midrange crunch (very grainy, a bit like the 500t thing, but without the harshness/mud), pretty nice non-shrill or spikey highs, bit less output than the others
they are all somewhat related
aggressive and very punchy, but with their own personal qualities
for your guitar and most of the bands you mentioned, I'd pick the cold sweat
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A miracle mans never doing LoG convincingly. Nailbomb for that.
I need to re-hear some of these tones. Will comment again later.
Darth, new slayer, miracle man, really? I think not, sith lord!
well
they use EMG 81 with boosters and awful settings :lol:
no BKP will sound like that anyway :lol:
I used to love Diabolus In Musica tone, though (sounds like a JCM 900, maybe a JMP-1)
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have you ever played a c-pig? how does it compare with a bridge MM?
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have you ever played a c-pig? how does it compare with a bridge MM?
Its growlier, deeper, thicker, sharper, more saturated, more compressed, more scream to it than singingness, not as smoother; more grind generally broader sounding (higher highs and lower lows) and about a bajillion times heavier.
I put my homeless c-pig back in a guitar the other day. I'd forgotten the full extent of their br00tality!
True, darth, true - but were I to go for any it would be painkiller, without hesitation. MM for diablous tones!
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well from the description pages from bare knuckle i like the miracle man the best. and i think it would make for a nice balance with the alnico V nailbomb in the neck. so i can get that tight crunchy riffage in the bridge and then switch to the neck for a more fluid but still articulate sound.
all pickups sound great but i think this combo is what i'am after,
if i'am wrong please tell me.
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Wait a bit.
I'm gonna put a pizza in, crack open a beer and queue up the stuff you said. I'm pretty sure I have all of it.
Back with you in a couple of hours.
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tight crunchy riffage in the bridge
this is the cold sweat, believe me :lol:
I did a direct replacement from the miracle man to the cold sweat in the same guitar
and a miracle man -> painkiller replacement in another similar guitar
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We wont believe your lies, sith!
Yeah, the cold sweat is tight and crunchy, but I dont think its the one for these sounds. But I'll make a 'rea' recommendation after I've listened to the stuff.
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so according to Eric the miracle man won't give me what i want despite the awesome description. choosing these pickups is harder then i thought. anyway the guitar store i go to is a bare knuckle dealer so maybe they can help me out with tone samples (atleast i hope so).
i'am planning to get the pickups installed when i go for a setup. i also want to change some cosmetic stuff to make it look like a true beast. i was thinking of a matte diamond plated pickguard with the bare knuckle camo covers i bet that would look really cool :twisted:
which ever pickup i end up with will be an improvement so i'am really stoked about it.
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Had a listen, sticking with MM.
The PK could do practice, but you'd have too scoop the mid-mids a bit. Apart from some attack in the high mids (that the MM can also do) its got MM all over it.
I dont have that exodus album
Ozzy - hmmm...let me think...black dog?
Arch enemy is MM or PK depending on album. Which did you have in mind?
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Niether are gonna get you Moore (or blues at all) without parralel or tapped wiring. Then its probably PK.
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i like arch enemy 's doomsday machine tone, the track i'am legend/out for blood has a great opening.
also the 80's hardrock / ozzy style is more in the style of blizzard of ozz.
but my main focus is metal (thrash, death and stuff like lamb of god)
also the nailbomb in the neck can pull of the more bluesy stuff with some rock, the guy on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pGQbZQfhMo has about the same kinda tone i like for the blues'er stuff.
so your overal conclusion is the miracle man or the painkiller depending on the metal stuff i like?
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Yeah, excluding the LoG its those.
I'd go for a miracle man to get I am Legend. Its got a mid to it that you could dial in with the MM or tone down the PK to get, but its in the high end and low mid that makes me say MM.
The NB might be an option for you. The metal sounds could largely be achieved with a NB and a 5150. But then the blues is gone.
I dunno. Youre gonna have to compromise on something. All the above pickups are great for thrash and good to great for death. Whats the one sound in your head that you want to nail? Describe it, in detail.
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well the tone i'am looking for is the modern thrash sound but with the added bass from the explorer i'am hoping for a more sinister heavy sound. but with still the characteristics of the modern thrash sound. the high end shoudn't be shrill but must cut through. i want the pinch harmonics to be more clear and "popping".
also overal i want a more articulate pickup for fast single noted riffs. and staccato palm muting.
with sinister heavy sound i mean the tone in LoG's laid to rest.
i find it to be very hard to descripe a certain tone, maybe i want to much.
but something close to my description should be awesome.
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lamb of god im pretty sure uses JB's (adler) and right now mark uses breeds and 59's...........im not sure what he had on the older albums though.....cant a holy diver work with the right eq?
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yeah i already checked on what LoG uses, but most seymour duncans i tried were not my thing.
i personally think the JB and the Jazz set is very weak. and i can't get a good tone from them. same goes for the dave mustaine live wire pickups. and the '59
i always liked a bit more of a growl.
i also tried the EMG 81, 85 set those things sound very sterile and unnatural for what i like. i once tried a bill lawrence pickup(L500XL) in a dean ML. and i liked the articulation but it sounded somewhat shrill on the higher frets and their was some overal bottom punch missing.
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well the tone i'am looking for is the modern thrash sound but with the added bass from the explorer i'am hoping for a more sinister heavy sound. but with still the characteristics of the modern thrash sound. the high end shoudn't be shrill but must cut through. i want the pinch harmonics to be more clear and "popping".
also overal i want a more articulate pickup for fast single noted riffs. and staccato palm muting.
with sinister heavy sound i mean the tone in LoG's laid to rest.
i find it to be very hard to descripe a certain tone, maybe i want to much.
but something close to my description should be awesome.
Well if you'd opened with that I'd have said nailbomb or painkiller, depending high tight and aggressive you want it.
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agreed, Nailbombs for LOG - they have the right amount of bass for that stuff and the top end is PHAT.
otoh, for more of a 'thrash' vibe I'd go with Miracle Mans but find them a bit light on bass/low mids - maybe a MM with dual screw-poles and wound a bit hotter would be the order of the day (like MDV's br00talz MM)
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agreed, Nailbombs for LOG - they have the right amount of bass for that stuff and the top end is PHAT.
otoh, for more of a 'thrash' vibe I'd go with Miracle Mans but find them a bit light on bass/low mids - maybe a MM with dual screw-poles and wound a bit hotter would be the order of the day (like MDV's br00talz MM)
i know, soon i'll have mine installed so i'll stop asking about MMs...
but i think they're the only BKPs about wich NOONE seem to agree... many say that they have got a huge bottom together with screaming highs, you (and you're not alone) say that they lack bass...
i'll discover myself but i have to say i'm still A BIT confused... :?
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The MM will be bassy in a bassy guitar. Lots of treble all the time.
You go up on the high strings and it sings and screams, really smooth and fluid but with a nice pick attack. The lows have the same sort of treble on them (pick attack for thrash :D) and if there are lows for it to pickup they will do so very well.
In an Epi LP I've had a miracle man be pure black-album tone - thick and dark and chewey. Same miracle man in my dean custom (maple neck, alder body) was bright, lush crunch and snappy pick attack.
My Monster MM (DSP, 23k) is like a smoother, darker c-pig. The very high highs and very low lows are tailed off on it a bit (compared to the c-pig; compared to a standard MM its sort of shifted down a bit; lower lows and not as much high extension) and its got a really thick low mid.