Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Dr. Vic on April 27, 2009, 08:51:36 PM
-
Hi guys,
I am looking for a simple device in order to :
- play some playbacks
- record myself (on a separate track from the playback or on the same track (overdub)
I am an absolute beginner in « home studio » and have absolutely NO IDEA of what solution exist and what product to choose.. :mrgreen:
I am NOT looking for a professionnal result at all : just wanting to practice at home on playback and record myself WITH EASE.
What are the different kind of solutions available with their advantages and drawbacks ?
I am not sure to want plugging the guitar in the computer and dealing with tons of software to have a sound and to edit a track. : I want something very simple and direct to use while keeping the sound of my amplifier (which has a line out but no CD input (as a result it is not designed to play playback) : it's a Marshall DSL 401).
Any suggestion HIGHLY appreciated. HELPPPPP ! :drink:
Cheers !
-
boss micro BR... i can sell you mine, if you're interested... it's a simple multitrack digital recorder, has a line in, simple integrated distortion-effects and a drum machine if you just want to lay down some riff...
very nice, i bought it to use it in my girlfriend's house, but in the end i bought a laptop so i never really used it!
-
I'd say Boss Micro BR as well - you can't have mine though :lol:
My wife got it for me for christmas, I was planning on using it as a "scratch pad" for getting quick ideas down instead of having to get the laptop and all it's gubbins going every time... but I've found it will do some INCREDIBLE things.
I've just spent all evening mixing and mastering guitar tracks for a little something I've been working on the last week or so (I'll be posting it when it's done... but that could be a while away, much vocals to add to it yet). I seem to have stopped using my laptop and Cakewalk for full projects in favour of this Boss thing - I think I like the discipline that its "limitations" force on you when you're trying to create something more spectacular.
However, although it does some crazy stuff as well, it's brilliant for what you want - you can play along with wavs or mp3s. You can quickly multitrack yourself. The "drum machine" is a collection of patterns organised by style - you can't edit them, you just use them to make drum arrangements, but it makes better drum parts than when I use a fullblown midi drum machine :lol:. It fits in your breast pocket, you can just plug your guitar straight into it and use the amp sims, but it also has stereo line ins for later. The onboard FX are stunning - I've just discovered the power of the "mastering tools" - I've just been using the presets up to now with my fingers crossed... And even the built in condensor mic isn't too bad (the guide vox on my current project were recorded with it, and they're almost usable as is...).
Admittedly I've been recording for a while, but I found it very easy to get to grips with - I did my first two verses of 12 bar in A (several guitars, bass, drums) by lunchtime on christmas day (and I was doing the cooking :lol:). It's definitely worth spending time with the manual and being a bit patient to start with. But once you get going, it's an amazing little tool to help your creativity.
... so in summary - I quite like it :D
Boss Micro BR - woo-hoo! :lol:
-
i have a zoom mrs8 which i really like.
make sure you check the sample rate, resolution and compression technique of any device you are looking at.
-
I have a Boss Micro BR which I like but this would probably be simpler to use, I find the boss a bit fiddly even though it is great:-
http://www.tascam.com/products/dp-004.html
and don't worry about the sample rate, resolution or compression, for what you have described anything mentioned would be fine.
-
Dictaphones.
But seriously
Standalone hard drive recorders are the simplest.
-
i don't know... i think that recording software is the simplest thing to use. after all you've got no visual limitation, and you can use a mouse to do things (and not scrolling menus)...
-
and don't worry about the sample rate, resolution or compression, for what you have described anything mentioned would be fine.
although several devices not mentioned wouldn't be - eg zoom mrs4
-
Do you mean that it would not be good enough for the following criteria:-
I am NOT looking for a professionnal result at all : just wanting to practice at home on playback and record myself WITH EASE.
I think the MRS4 would be great for just that! I've been using one of them for years and had great results....
-
Do you mean that it would not be good enough for the following criteria:-
I am NOT looking for a professionnal result at all : just wanting to practice at home on playback and record myself WITH EASE.
I think the MRS4 would be great for just that! I've been using one of them for years and had great results....
yeah, but at some point that leads to wanting to make more semi-pro recordings, at least IMHO, it doesn't make much difference in price to get CD alike resolution. that tascam looks nice BTW
-
IMHO, don't go near anything that doesn't have a built in hard disk (consider 40GB a minimum) - you don't want to have to delete something you've spent time on in order to make room for something else. Also, you really want something with a USB port then you can back up to PC.
I had a Boss 4-track that recorded to 256MB Smartmedia cards. Even using the lowest of the 3 quality settings, if I recorded on all 4 tracks I could only get 3-4 songs on a card (none longer than 5 mins) :(
The TASCAM DP-02 is a great package. 8 tracks, 40Gb hard disk, even has phantom power if you wanted to record with a condenser.
-
Dictaphones.
Another one-of-a-kind-logical-but-epic MDV input ! Don't point me to this because once you'll know how I did my last record, and when it was...you'll notice that the dictaphone will be more than what I could expect....
ANYWAY BACK TO TOPIC !! :shock: :shock: :shock:
If I sum up your precious advices guys, I understand 3 solutions are available :
1/ using a standalone hard drive recorder : Like a Zoom H4 or something similar ? If yes, then this would not an answer for what I am looking for (hearing playback, playing and recording on 2 differents tracks).
2/ using a laptop and softwares : I guess with something like a Toneport or Vox Jam or something similar (but not sure if it was what you were thinking of though)....But I still think I would prefer something more direct and immediate to use than a computer.
3/ a mini studio recording is the solution you seem to advise here for me. I noticed you could classify them in 3 different categories :
simple : Boss Micro BR / Tascam DP004 / Zoom MRS-4
intermediate : Zoom MRS-8
advanced : Tascam DP 02 (Antag do you make your own clips with this one ?) :D :D
:oops: AND NOW .... TONS OF SILLY QUESTIONS CAME TO MIND !! :oops:
Do you plug the mini studio directly in your hifi system or do you advise to plug it in some active monitoring ?
Which of the above are CD alike resolution and which are not ?
What is a « sample rate » ? Which compression technique are best and which one are to avoid ?
What is a phantom power used for exactely, when you play guitar at home ?
Will the line out of my amp give good result or do you advise to use a microphone in front of it ? And are the built in guitar simulation of boss (COSM) and Zoom good enough ? What about the tascam ? (Still wanting to keep the sound of my amplifier, but just in case...)
Are the built in drums / bass sampler good enough, or is it just something useless (especially in the Zoom and Boss).
What's more I forgot to say that I want the machine able to slow down the tempo of playbacks, at any rate (for practicing and building speed). Which one has this option ? Any other recommendation ?
I have just noticed the Zoom HD8 CD. Is it as good as the DP 02 (if the DP 02 dosn't have the time stretch option), and still simple to use ?
Many thanks for all your help ! :japon:
-
I purchased a BOSS BR600 for a friend and that was great totally portable and easy to use, as long as you have a few 1Gb CF cards you can fit a lot on them and they are tough you can have a studio in your gig bag.
The hard disk systems are a better option for use at home CF/SD if you want to carry it around.
-
What's more I forgot to say that I want the machine able to slow down the tempo of playbacks, at any rate (for practicing and building speed). Which one has this option ? Any other recommendation ?
i'm surely wrong, but i suspect that this feature belongs just to recording software, i don't think that a simple multitrack recorder can do it (without pitch changes, of course!)
-
What's more I forgot to say that I want the machine able to slow down the tempo of playbacks, at any rate (for practicing and building speed). Which one has this option ? Any other recommendation ?
i'm surely wrong, but i suspect that this feature belongs just to recording software, i don't think that a simple multitrack recorder can do it (without pitch changes, of course!)
Correct
-
Do you mean that it would not be good enough for the following criteria:-
I am NOT looking for a professionnal result at all : just wanting to practice at home on playback and record myself WITH EASE.
I think the MRS4 would be great for just that! I've been using one of them for years and had great results....
yeah, but at some point that leads to wanting to make more semi-pro recordings, at least IMHO, it doesn't make much difference in price to get CD alike resolution. that tascam looks nice BTW
+1
it doesnt take much more cash to get something an order of magnitude more flexible/powerfull in the "prosumer" line of interface + daw (that will probably come with the interface). Little more cash, steeper learning curve (in that doing simple stuff with it is just as simple but theres WAY more you COULD learn to do with it) and the potential to make semi-pro sounding recordings.
I'd do that. Actually, I did that. You can use it as a note-pad just as easily as a hard disk recorder, but you can keep using it for more stuff as you learn more.
EMU 0404 and an audix i5 or a modeller or pre and youre set.
Oh, you'll need monitors no matter what.
Next step from there is acoustic treatment
After that its gear upgrade - to get a really appreciable improvment over the 0404 in audio quality you need to go past about 500 quid for the interface, IMO.
-
Tascam make a guitar trainer for slowing down CDs without altering the pitch, but it is purely for CDs, it's not a recording device....
-
Tascam make a guitar trainer for slowing down CDs without altering the pitch, but it is purely for CDs, it's not a recording device....
You could probably jam that into a HD recording scenario somehow. Record, line out to slow-downer and back in to a second track or something.
-
What's more I forgot to say that I want the machine able to slow down the tempo of playbacks, at any rate (for practicing and building speed). Which one has this option ? Any other recommendation ?
i'm surely wrong, but i suspect that this feature belongs just to recording software, i don't think that a simple multitrack recorder can do it (without pitch changes, of course!)
Correct
Incorrect :lol:
(-ish)
The Boss Micro BR does it, but I don't use it.
You can't vary the speed of a project you're recording, but one of it's selling points is the jam/practice facility. Get a track onto the machine (WAV or MP3) and then run the beast in MP3 mode to listen to and play along with. You can vary the speed of wav/mp3 playback...
-
I sit corrected! (some do)
-
What's more I forgot to say that I want the machine able to slow down the tempo of playbacks, at any rate (for practicing and building speed). Which one has this option ? Any other recommendation ?
i'm surely wrong, but i suspect that this feature belongs just to recording software, i don't think that a simple multitrack recorder can do it (without pitch changes, of course!)
Correct
Incorrect :lol:
(-ish)
The Boss Micro BR does it, but I don't use it.
You can't vary the speed of a project you're recording, but one of it's selling points is the jam/practice facility. Get a track onto the machine (WAV or MP3) and then run the beast in MP3 mode to listen to and play along with. You can vary the speed of wav/mp3 playback...
uh... i never used this feature (because i used the little thing just a few times) - i remember i was very glad about the BR, just it was rendered useless by my laptop... i have got some practice with cubase so i preferred a bit more complication to use a system i'm well accustomed to...
-
uh... i never used this feature (because i used the little thing just a few times) - i remember i was very glad about the BR, just it was rendered useless by my laptop... i have got some practice with cubase so i preferred a bit more complication to use a system i'm well accustomed to...
Not sure I'll have time to learn with cubase or other software. I am quite on the opposite : looking for some simplification, in order to concentrate on playing ! :guitar4:
That's a good point if the BR can slow down the playbacks... Does he slow them at any speed you want ?
-
I just had a look in the BR manual.
In "MP3 Mode" you can:
Record - The inputs to the recorder are still operational, and you can record direct to stereo MP3 or WAV, this is probably the fastest way to get the song you want onto the box. Get a line out from your source (your cd, dvd, or record player - even from your PC's soundcard, record direct off the internet, eg youtube or spotify, etc...)
Timestretch - Speed up or slow down playback of an MP3 or WAV. The default is 100% (normal speed). You just change this percentage. It implies you can get it up to 200%, and I assume down to, er, 0% :lol:
It has a warning that sound deteriorates at anything other than 100% - but, we already knew that, I guess they had to cover their @rses :D
Centre Cancel - You can take the middle out of the stereo image. This removes anything that's "in the middle", usually the lead vocal or the "solo". It also lets you move the cancelling position, you can adjust it left or right in the stereo image.
Again it warns you that it might not do exactly what you expect, depending on how the original recording was mixed.
(Note that you can do centre cancelling in PC software studios, by inverting the phase of one of the stereo channels - if your software has this facility)
Repeat Sections - You can set a Start (A) and an End (B) and then set the song to loop over this section repeatedly.
You can do this when you use it as a multitracker as well - I'm about to use it a lot this weekend to practice a keyboard part that I need on my project. The A - B functionality is also used in the multitracker to allow you to do "drop-in" overdubs to repair mistakes in your playing.
Play along - because the recorder's inputs are still active during playback, you can plug in and play along :D
The only thing I'm not sure about is whether the onboard guitar effects will be available (ie the amp modelling) when you're running in MP3 mode - I seriously doubt it, I would be stunned and amazed, and VERY impressed, if they've managed that as well :D
====
I would whole-heartedly recommend this beastie. It's a "real" multi-tracker, with the addition of very usable drum patterns and some very usable effects for guitar, vocals, and mixing/mastering (the reverb's not superb, but hey! :D).
I think it does what you want – you can use it simply or delve into more deeply into it. It introduces you to multi-tracking with a set of tools that enable you to produce superb results...
If you do get hooked on recording, and go the PC route later, you still might use it - I've come across people who bought it as a notebook and have ended up using it as their recording device, then they export all the tracks as WAV (it's a 4 track, each with 8 virtual tracks = 32 tracks), then load them into their PC set up for mixing.
The ONLY drawbacks to the unit as far as I'm concerned (this is in multitrack mode) are:
1) The effects do not include a "pitch-shifter" - they've got nearly everything else. Lots of people mock up demos by playing a guide "bass" part on a guitar and then pitch-shifting it down. It's not ideal, but it gets the job done fast if you're songwriting or travelling. If it had a pitch shift, then this little box and just one guitar, and you're all set wherever you are :D
2) There is no midi interface.
But neither of these are particularly getting in my way.
-
gosh, andy, you really made me want using again my BR!
-
Yeah many thanks Andy for that one-of-kind post. !
So if I understand well the 'mini studio' like the boss BR are able to slow down the playback speed, but the quality of the sound is not garanteed..
I am looking for a model that will keep a good sound quality while doing that...if it's possible...*
-
Yeah many thanks Andy for that one-of-kind post. !
So if I understand well the 'mini studio' like the boss BR are able to slow down the playback speed, but the quality of the sound is not garanteed..
I am looking for a model that will keep a good sound quality while doing that...if it's possible...*
i fear not!
if you use compressed music there's no way, even with a good interpolation, that quality will not be altered.
but what do you care about quality for? it's just for practicing solos, after all!
-
I have a near new Zoom H4 for sale PM me if interested.
I just prefer laptop and software if I want to record.
-
I've read this thread with interest as it's something I'm starting to think about. My own requirements are simple as I'll only use it for practice. Basically, all I want to do is record myself playing along to a track so I can see where I went wrong and to record some ideas as they come to me for future reference. That's all really, just a way for me to practice and get better. At its most basic I simply want to record myself on top of backing tracks but it would also be cool if I could use any mp3 track and maybe replace the existing guitar or part of it - like the JamVox. Is there a system where I can play along to a track and just extract the guitar in the lead section? From what I can see it would be the units already mentioned or the JamVox but I just don't know.
-
I've just posted the latest thing I've finished with my BOSS Micro-BR:
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=17322.0 (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=17322.0)
It uses the onboard drum patterns, but everything else (guitars, bass, organ, vocals) went in through the line in (I use a mixing desk to phantom power my vocal mic - so everything, amp modellor, keyboards, etc, goes through this desk).
ALL mixing and, er, "mastering" was done on the BR - I suspect I could clean up some of the issues by exporting the tracks to my PC and using my DAW, but I can't be bothered, and I wanted to show how far you can take this little beastie...
I am amazed at what it can do
-
I've just posted the latest thing I've finished with my BOSS Micro-BR:
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=17322.0 (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=17322.0)
It uses the onboard drum patterns, but everything else (guitars, bass, organ, vocals) went in through the line in (I use a mixing desk to phantom power my vocal mic - so everything, amp modellor, keyboards, etc, goes through this desk).
ALL mixing and, er, "mastering" was done on the BR - I suspect I could clean up some of the issues by exporting the tracks to my PC and using my DAW, but I can't be bothered, and I wanted to show how far you can take this little beastie...
I am amazed at what it can do
i'm really impressed!
-
I can honestly say it's the best christmas present I've had for years...
I've had hours of fun with it already, and it's got me back into being creative rather than just "buying guitars and pickups and thinking about being creative" :lol:
-
I can honestly say it's the best christmas present I've had for years...
I've had hours of fun with it already, and it's got me back into being creative rather than just "buying guitars and pickups and thinking about being creative" :lol:
you said it!
i have to find that spirit again, it's months since the last time i actually composed something...
-
Just to let you know guys...........
After reading that
Dictaphones.
But seriously
Standalone hard drive recorders are the simplest.
I thought I wanted to burn him :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
:lol:
BUT I HAVE FOUND what I was looking for : THE ZOOM H4N
http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1994
One of a kind simple 4 track recording device with built in microphone + a complete guitar trainer allowing to run playbacks with time strech AND center cancel options to pratice at home with your bands...like the tascam MP GT1
in a nutshell : one of a kind all in one combination !
Special thanks to Andy R : The Micro BR was very tempting too....but as I also play a lot of acoustic and classical guitar my preference went to the H4N and his built in microphone (24 bits recording for more dynamics)
This was just to share !
Thanks guys !
PDT_042
-
Nice one - hope you have fun with it, and that it gets the old creative juices flowing like the Boss unit has for me :D
-
Yeah seems the micro BR has been made for you ! :wink:
I think one of his feature the H4N doesn't have is the drum machine. But I am sooo cr@p to built drum pattern by myself (and not much time to make them) that I prefered concentrate on the guitar trainer of the H4N and use playbacks, which suits me better.
and thanks again for all your very detailed posts on this thread ! :tin: