Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: Mr. Air on May 07, 2009, 05:43:36 PM
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I just installed a Stormy Monday/Apache set in a Pacifica 112. At the same time I also switched the 5-way switch and the two pots.
This was my very first guitar mod and it was with great expectations I plugged the guitar in, but I was gravely disapointed. The sound was very thin and shrill. It helped when I raised the pickups, but then I could clearly hear that the sound in position 2 and 4 wasn't improved by the raised pickups.
So I guess something has gone wrong with my wiring. Could it be my shoddy soldering skills that's causing the trouble? I don't know how serious bad soldering can affect the tone of the guitar. Maybe it's like a danish add says: "Bad sound kills good music". So maybe bad soldering kills good guitar tone?
I realy hope someone can help me with this even though it's quite hard to say something without seeing the actual guitar.
Here's a link to the diagram I used
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=1h_2s_1v_1t_5w_as
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This doesn't really explain the thin sound, but did you adapt the Duncan diagram to use the BKP colour codes for the humbucker?
Duncan: Black, White, Red, Green
BKP: Red, Green, White, Black
(Sorry if that sounds patronising, but it's not meant to - people have done it before!)
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That doesn't sound patronizing at all. I'm a totaly beginner so I guess I need some patronizing guidance.
I didn't use the colours of the SD diagram, but from what you wrote I've managed to mess up the colours. So seems that you've solved my problem.
So it's just at it again! Hopefuly with greater success this time :D
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OOOOPS!!! I was a little too fast with my reply there :oops:
I did make the right colour connections. But then what's wrong???
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Now I'm struggling. Bad soldering (if applicable!) is more likely to cause occasional buzzing or no signal at all, it shouldn't really affect the overall tone.
Does it sound thin and shrill in all five positions, or are some worse than others?
And one other thought, are the new pots 250k or 500k (or even one of each)?
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It's just thin and shrill, almost not audible, in position 2 and 4.
The new pots are both 3ook.
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I just noticed that the guitar can be heard even though the volume pot is rolled all the way back. Do you know what can cause this?
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300k pots should be a good compromise for an HSS guitar, so I don't think that's the problem.
If positions 2 and 4 are the thin ones, it sounds almost like the middle pickup is out of phase (though it shouldn't be, since they're all the same make). You could try swapping the hot/ground connections from the middle pickup, and see what happens.
If you're getting sound with the volume pot on zero, it could just be a bad pot (it happens!). Or you may have fried it by overheating!
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I did have some trouble grounding all the wires to the pot due to my lack of soldering skills so I might have fried it? I have no clue how much it takes to fry a pot. I used a 25w soldering iron so it's not like overpowered, but maybe it's far enough to fry a pot?
I'm going to try to switch the hot and ground on the middle pu tomorrow and see if it helps. Or maybe see if my untrained eyes can catch some mistakes.
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I switched the hot/ground wires on the middle pickup and BINGO. Now there's normal sound from position 2 and 4. Thanks a lot for the tip, Philly Q!
By the way. If the volume pot is damaged, either by factory mistake or by over heathing, how much will it affect the overall tone?
Quite irritating that I can't test the guitar on my amp. I only got a small solid state combo at home and amplitube with headphones. Not so ideal. :(
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By the way. If the volume pot is damaged, either by factory mistake or by over heathing, how much will it affect the overall tone?
Hard to say. If a pot's "a bit defective" it won't make the sound "a bit cr@p". It's more a case of it works, or it doesn't. If it sounds OK to you, and works OK as a control, I wouldn't worry too much. On the other hand, if you've got a spare pot lying around it wouldn't do any harm to change it.
Anyway, I'm glad the guitar's sounding good now! :D
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Well the pot works, just not perfect. Like earlier stated it doesn't kill all of the sound when turned down and it seems like I doesn't have to turn it that much before it reaches its minimum and all the rest of the way there's no change in volume.
Think I read a post where someone had a similar problem - lack of volume range (or whatever you call it).
I have kept the old pots and could give one of them a go. Great chance to practice my soldering skills and for building up frustrations. Why do you need three hands when soldering wires to a pot? If you have a good tip for making this easier please share it with me.
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Hm, isnt the way to do it by soldering a blob on the back of the pot first, and then solder the wire to the blob? Might not be the best way, but seemed to work for me, atleast you only need two hands:P
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I'm no expert, I just do what seems to work for me, but the main tip I have for soldering is to prepare as much as possible in advance - tin the ends of wires, tin the lugs on pots and switches.
Then when you're ready to actually put the parts together, do it as quickly and efficently as you can so as not to overheat parts or melt wires. Don't try to "wrap" wires around lugs, just push them into the melted solder, remove the heat, hold for a few seconds and they'll stay in place.
When you're soldering to the back of a pot, it's better to use a really hot iron which will heat the metal - and melt the solder - quickly. If the iron's weak, it'll take ages so the whole pot gets overheated rather than just the little area you want to solder to. It's sometimes worth sanding the back of the pot with some coarse sandpaper so the solder "sticks" better.
Personally, I hold the wire against the pot with the iron as it heats, then push the solder onto the pot under the wire, until just a little melts. Then I keep the iron in place until the solder starts to spread out, like a little pool, across the metal, rather than sitting in a blob. Then I hold the wire down with an old screwdriver or something, take the iron away and hold for a few more seconds to let the solder set. That sounds like it takes ages but it should only be about 30 seconds or so!
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Remember that solder flows towards heat!
Does sound like you don't quite have a total earth on the back of the pot
Also some pots don't take a very good solder joint - sometimes you have to scratch up the back of the pot with a file or suchlike to help the solder stick.
Make sure that the right hand tag of the volume pot is nicely soldered to the back of the pot - either bent to meet the back or via a wire.
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Remember that solder flows towards heat!
But it follows gravity too! :wink: I hate it when you have a nice little "film" of solder over the hole in a pot lug, then you melt it again and it starts draining away down the lug - probably, I guess, because there's too much solder.
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Thanks for all the advice. It's just so nice that you're taking time to help!
I'll try de- and resoldering the wires on the pot and hopefuly this will cure my problem. If it doesn't I'll try one of the old pots and see if it makes a difference.
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+1 on filing the back of a pot. most good pots don't need that, but cheaper electronics oriented pots (.50c a piece..) require you to expose the metal. if the back is of a greenish bronze color, it's got a little covering that needs to be scratched off..
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Also worth noting is that most pots don't go completely to zero, in fact CTS make a "custom" pot which does go to zero but it costs a bit more than their usual range.