Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: ailean on May 23, 2009, 11:35:37 PM
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How much difference does a full stack make? I know it won't be much louder as such, how much fuller will the sound be?
I have a half stack already, but would it be worth going to a full stack? Opinions?
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My simple answer to you:
No.
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The difference is VAST. Your amp will be more responsive, you will have greater coverage, and you will be moving a LOT more air.
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Not loud enough until you have 6 times one and a half stacks side by side :D
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/25/37030329_92fe3fa4f8.jpg?v=0)
In all seriousness, if you can transport all the stuff then why not. Half stack is already louder than needed why not go the extra mile for fuller sound? In pubs and stuff the ceiling might not be high enough though. Actually, having a 4x12 on each side of the stage would be cool.
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Big difference
However I prefer one cab with a head - unless the other cab is on the other side of the stage
The one cab aproach seems a bit more focussed in some ways
TWo will sound bigger and fuller I know , but I have always liked using one cab
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To continue with my 'No', for the house I don't think a full stack is needed, sometimes a half stack is even a no no. Sometimes you just have to give in to the restrictions that you have and accept that a half stack is better than a full stack regardless of sound I'm afraid.
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if you have a full stack will you get the chance to play it at a decent volume without using an attenuator?
if the anwser is no then stick with half a stack.
i have just gone down from a 2x12 to a 1x12 and the difference in volume didnt seem that massive but i am aware that i am happier pushing the 1x12 harder than i ever could with the 2x12
for me it seems better to have 1 speaker working its little socks off than it does 8 speakers hardly ever doing anything
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For me a smaller setup works better, too. When I had a half stack it was hard getting out of the way of the cone of ear-splitting noise, whereas my current setup sounds better from all angles. If I was gigging I'd probably just use a half stack, too, 'cause everywhere I'd gig mics through a PA and makes your cab more for your own monitoring than for the benefit of the audience.
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Thanks for the replies guy.
Here is the reason I'm asking...
I've just bought a Diezel VH4 and 4x12 cab. The VH4 I have, the cab is awaiting construction. I already have and Orange rockerverb 50 and Orange 4x12. However, the Orange cab is 16ohm and the Diezel will be 8ohm so I can't use them as a full stack (well I can, but it won't sound right).
The VH4 is currently kicking the cr@p out of the Rockerverb, I knew it would be better, but, oh my, it's BETTER, I just wasn't expecting that much difference.
So I could sell the Rockerverb and Orange cab and get another Diszel 4x12, which gives me the full stack option, and at a later date, get another head for when Sue and I want to play together <insert dirty minded comments as required>.
That way when we want we can have a full stack, and when not we have 2 half stacks.
Am I crazy?
This of course opens up a whole can of worms about what the theoretical 'other' head would be (Eintein, Herbert, Soldano, Koch, etc..) but I have plenty of time to think about that as the VH4 rig has just eaten the gear budget for a while!
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If you have the room go for it. Full stacks are incredible with the volume cranked!
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Thanks for the replies guy.
Here is the reason I'm asking...
I've just bought a Diezel VH4 and 4x12 cab. The VH4 I have, the cab is awaiting construction. I already have and Orange rockerverb 50 and Orange 4x12. However, the Orange cab is 16ohm and the Diezel will be 8ohm so I can't use them as a full stack (well I can, but it won't sound right).
The VH4 is currently kicking the cr@p out of the Rockerverb, I knew it would be better, but, oh my, it's BETTER, I just wasn't expecting that much difference.
So I could sell the Rockerverb and Orange cab and get another Diszel 4x12, which gives me the full stack option, and at a later date, get another head for when Sue and I want to play together <insert dirty minded comments as required>.
That way when we want we can have a full stack, and when not we have 2 half stacks.
Am I crazy?
This of course opens up a whole can of worms about what the theoretical 'other' head would be (Eintein, Herbert, Soldano, Koch, etc..) but I have plenty of time to think about that as the VH4 rig has just eaten the gear budget for a while!
Glad you are liking the Diezel. I'd just keep the cab, the Orange cabs are pretty good.
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Maybe sell and buy some different speakers?
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If you have the room go for it.
For anyone who has seen Rich & Sue's flat that is quite amusing.
Seriously Rich, I think the idea of a full stack in your place is madness.
If, and when, yourself or Sue starts to play out in a band, AND learn to drive AND get a large car /van then, yes, I could see some (still slightly dubious) sense in it. Otherwise, there is no benefit of a full stack in your environment.
Certainly, having another cab (ie. the Orange) as a second for another rig, if/when you and Sue "play" together does make sense.
Personally, I'd keep the Orange cab, sell the Rockerverb, and use the money to put towards your next potential amp purchase (or even an AXE FX - that definately makes sense for your situation). The Orange cabs are excellent, and you can always change the speakers, to taste, if you so desire, so I'd recommend that it is definately one to keep.
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i have a vh4 too.
i ordered a rear loaded 2x12 cab which im still waiting for. atm im using a loaned diezel front loaded 4x12, and having heard the rear loaded 2x12s, i much prefer them. dont get me wrong the 4x12 sounds fantastic but the rear loaded 2x12 just sounds richer to me. i dont think ill ever go above 2x12 but if i do i would probably be running two 2x12s. its quite satisfying having a full stack behind you but i dont see the point personally... each to their own. let us know how u get on and what you go for will be interesting for me as i have a vh4 lol
morgan
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Well I gigged yesterday with a small 2x12, whilst the other guitarist used a full stack. My tone was much bigger/more cutting and just overall sounded better. Then again the cabs he was using were those marshall avt ones with stock speakers whilst mines a well constructed cab with good speakers.. god knows! If that was anything to go by though, then a full stack is totally pointless and not worth the hassle when you can fill the same room with a 2x12..
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If you have the room go for it.
For anyone who has seen Rich & Sue's flat that is quite amusing.
Seriously Rich, I think the idea of a full stack in your place is madness.
Stacks go up, not out, so space is no diffent to a 4x12 :D And I didn't let a little thing like madness stop us getting the VH4, besides the walls are softer if you get certified.
morgasm I will certainly let you know how the 4x12 works out.
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Well I gigged yesterday with a small 2x12, whilst the other guitarist used a full stack. My tone was much bigger/more cutting and just overall sounded better. Then again the cabs he was using were those marshall avt ones with stock speakers whilst mines a well constructed cab with good speakers.. god knows! If that was anything to go by though, then a full stack is totally pointless and not worth the hassle when you can fill the same room with a 2x12..
Interesting... very interesting. Thanks tom.
I guess I need to wait and see how the 4x12 works out when it turns up!
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Yeah I would like to give a 4x12 a go as well. The only ones I've tried are cheap ones though which really put me off, their sound dispersion is really bad. I think most of that might be because its closed back though whereas I'm used to using an open back whenever I'm with a band..
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<insert dirty minded comments as required>.
This situation is just begging for a nice big Koch...
sorry :)
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I've had a full stack in my living room, but never gigged it. WAAAAAAAY too much for a pub band in both size and image. You look like a small c*cked w*anker.
In 'DC I use a half stack, and in Doppelganger a 2x12. I could gig a 2x12 with 'DC quite happily and have no problem with sound. The only way I would use a full stack in the future would be if a) I could justify the expense and b) I was playing stadiums. There's no reason to have one otherwise. So I won't be having one.
Another importatnt thing to think about is the ohm ratings of cabs. In a full stack, you need to run your amp at 8 ohms (if you're running two 16 ohm cabs). I prefer the sound of my amps running at 16ohms so a signle 4x12 or 2x12 sounds better to me.
Having said all that. a full stack is something you have to play through at least once in your life though.........
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If you have the room go for it.
For anyone who has seen Rich & Sue's flat that is quite amusing.
Seriously Rich, I think the idea of a full stack in your place is madness.
Stacks go up, not out, so space is no diffent to a 4x12 :D And I didn't let a little thing like madness stop us getting the VH4, besides the walls are softer if you get certified.
I've been on the phone to the men in white coats, and they WILL be coming round to see you both first thing in the morning.
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i have two angled cabs as a full stack in my room, but i only play through the top cab.
when we play live i use one cab and our other guitarist the other. sometimes if there are a lot of cabs on stage ill use two 4x12's but use them side by side.
I think two 4x12's side by side.
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slightly off topic but, you know how a 2x12 and a 4x12 sound different, if you made a 2x12 that was more the size of a 4x12, how close would it sound?
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Not that close - sound pressure levels in the cab make a big difference. It's all to do with the number of speakers, the space inside and how the air behaves....
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I've played through a full stack a few times, dont really enjoy it since it cranks way too much noise straight into my face.
1 cab either side of the stage is sweet if your playing in a 1 guitar band as said previously, but if its going through FOH again its sorta irrelevant. other times when ive used 2 cabs gigging is when weve been playing without a good PA so no drum foldbacks, just point a whole cab at our drummer so he can hear whats going on a lot better
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tom, you speak the truth but do not forget this man will be getting diezel cabs, which are very fine cabs indeed with very good speakers regardless of which he chooses (if he does choose to...)
i think that gig experience was more down to the quality of the gear rather than "stack vs 2x12" as you pointed out.
morgan
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I've been on the phone to the men in white coats, and they WILL be coming round to see you both first thing in the morning.
They're not here yet... :D
Interesting debate. I very much agree with the 'everyone should try it once' becuase I want to :), and I'm married so I don't care how big people think my privates are.
Changing the speakers in the Orange might be the way forward for now.
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I have a half stack, which is lovely, but I would love to try a full stack, or preferably 2 so I can have them running in stereo. ;)
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Not loud enough until you have 6 times one and a half stacks side by side :D
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/25/37030329_92fe3fa4f8.jpg?v=0)
In all seriousness, if you can transport all the stuff then why not. Half stack is already louder than needed why not go the extra mile for fuller sound? In pubs and stuff the ceiling might not be high enough though. Actually, having a 4x12 on each side of the stage would be cool.
That's a nice small rig........ not Mr. Malmsteens by any chance?
keith
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I'm sure thats AC/DC
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Not loud enough until you have 6 times one and a half stacks side by side :D
In all seriousness, if you can transport all the stuff then why not. Half stack is already louder than needed why not go the extra mile for fuller sound? In pubs and stuff the ceiling might not be high enough though. Actually, having a 4x12 on each side of the stage would be cool.
That's a nice small rig........ not Mr. Malmsteens by any chance?
keith
I was thinking that literally 2 seconds before I read that, doesn't he usually run some other kind of Marshall at the same time? I've got some vague memory of a youtube video involving Yngwie and at least 2 types of Marshall at some festival
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WAAAAAAAY too much for a pub band in both size and image. You look like a small c*cked w*anker.
but you'll feel like a king 8)
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haha I would feel like a complete tit walking into a pub with a full stack. Even a half stack is a bit excessive.
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i suppose my blue Matamp stack is only made up of a pair of 2x12's... it looks great, sounds great and makes me feel great... yes i probably have a small c--k!
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haha I would feel like a complete tit walking into a pub with a full stack. Even a half stack is a bit excessive.
It's rare i'll use anything smaller than a 4x12 regardless of the size of venue. if the venue is too small, oh well!
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sansamp direct into front of house thank you very much! thats a 0x12 i guess :) never brought a cab to a gig in my life, though i do prefer recording with one. i never understood how non-modeller guitarists put up with carrying all their gear in vans etc.
edit: having said that - if i ever become uber-famous, i want the malmsteen rig assembled by my team of crack roadies :)
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It's rare i'll use anything smaller than a 4x12 regardless of the size of venue. if the venue is too small, oh well!
They do look much cooler than a 2x12, definitely :)
I think it might just be the specific 4x12s I've tried, but they just sucked compared to my 2x12 with their projection. I wouldnt mind trying one of those budda 4x12 cabs with the top half as open back but they're really expensive :(
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4x12s can be 'beamy', which is why a full stack gives you much more projection. It also greatly improves the dynamics of your rig. Even though the potential to move a lot more air is there, it's not necessarily over the top compared to a half stack.
All decent 4x12s are very heavy, however.
Though I own multiple 4x12 cabinets, for most gigs, I use a single 4x12. However, that's due to limitations on my listening space, not necessarily on venue size.
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i prefer angled 4x12's to straight for my own listening ease. i can be stood right up against a cab, which is a nightmare. the beamy characteristic doesnt help in that situation.
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Dmoney, you might wanna try setting your angled cab on its side, too. That's a trick a few friends of mine use, and they are well pleased with the results.
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that is a good trick. at home i my cabs set as a full stack, but cos they are both angled and on wheels i set the top half on its side and only play through the top half. (im too lazy to wire the bottom and dig out the 8ohm hotplate)
i find that if a venue is big enough to allow me to move around and go way out of the projection of the cab, then the venue probably has monitors. otherwise i find a good spot and stay still. our singer is pretty athletic and if i get in the way i kiss goodbye to my tuning (pegs wrapped up in mic cable), pedals (cables tangled around our singer and dragged across the venue) and my guitar (getting it hit with a mic). i have to be on guard.
that sounds like a good trick though and one ill remember for sure!
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If you want a full stack get one! You have the blessing of your Mrs :D I've got a small flat but do manage to krank my Koch in it when i feel the need...ahem.
You should book yourselves some studio time with your new amp and cabs, when you get them. You will love it! I ran my Koch flat out at a jam once, I put the amp over one side of the room, which was very big. The harmonic feedback you get is unreal. :twisted:
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Ben, what does putting the cab on its side do? Just give a bit more bass response as its touching the floor rather than casters?
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If you want a full stack get one! You have the blessing of your Mrs :D I've got a small flat but do manage to krank my Koch in it when i feel the need...ahem.
You should book yourselves some studio time with your new amp and cabs, when you get them. You will love it! I ran my Koch flat out at a jam once, I put the amp over one side of the room, which was very big. The harmonic feedback you get is unreal. :twisted:
Yeah, there are some practice rooms not far from me. I may well have to book a session :)
I think I'll swap my Orange 16ohm 4x12 for a Diezel 8ohm 4x12 at some stage. I'm in no rush, but as I'm going to have 2 4x12 cabs it seems daft not to be able to run them as a full stack. I could swap the cones in the Orange for 8ohm, but I think I'll end up getting the Diezel cab, the new generation are supposed to be really good.
I'm NEVER going to play live, so I don't care about what others think of me, all I'm interested in is filling my lounge with the biggest, most awsome sound I can.
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If you want a full stack get one! You have the blessing of your Mrs :D I've got a small flat but do manage to krank my Koch in it when i feel the need...ahem.
You should book yourselves some studio time with your new amp and cabs, when you get them. You will love it! I ran my Koch flat out at a jam once, I put the amp over one side of the room, which was very big. The harmonic feedback you get is unreal. :twisted:
Yeah, there are some practice rooms not far from me. I may well have to book a session :)
I think I'll swap my Orange 16ohm 4x12 for a Diezel 8ohm 4x12 at some stage. I'm in no rush, but as I'm going to have 2 4x12 cabs it seems daft not to be able to run them as a full stack. I could swap the cones in the Orange for 8ohm, but I think I'll end up getting the Diezel cab, the new generation are supposed to be really good.
I'm NEVER going to play live, so I don't care about what others think of me, all I'm interested in is filling my lounge with the biggest, most awsome sound I can.
:D That's the spirit!! :lol: I ran my amp flat out into the 4ohm jack at a few jams in that big room i mentioned, its so loud beyond anything I can describe. Your internal organs vibrate.
Your lounge will look very cool with a full stack Diezel amp in there! 8) If we can organise another BKP meet you should come along with it. :D
Have a look at the Koch cab specs, they brand their own speakers but I believe they're made by Jenson http://www.koch-amps.com/koch/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17&Itemid=12 (http://www.koch-amps.com/koch/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17&Itemid=12)
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I've ordered the Diezel cab :D
For a short time I will have 3 4x12 cabs until I decide which one stays and which one goes. I want to A/B the V30 Diezel against the Orange to see which I prefer. If there isn't much in it I'll keep the Diezel anyway as it gives me the stack option :)
The only bugger is the wait.. the Dilligen factory just can't keep up with demand at the moment. Oh well.
Edit: I've just thought, if I run the through jack on the VH4 into the Rockerverb I can bi-amp and run all 3 cabs at once...
:twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:
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Edit: I've just thought, if I run the through jack on the VH4 into the Rockerverb I can bi-amp and run all 3 cabs at once...
:twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:
Now you just need 3 more: http://www.paulgilbert.com/Speaker_Cabinets.html
;)
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Diezel cabs are quite nice. Enjoy!
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Edit: I've just thought, if I run the through jack on the VH4 into the Rockerverb I can bi-amp and run all 3 cabs at once...
:twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:
Now you just need 3 more: http://www.paulgilbert.com/Speaker_Cabinets.html
;)
Yikes! Paul has no midrange hearing left!