Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Ivan on June 09, 2009, 11:24:22 AM
-
Firstly I apologize over how vague this post is.
I have the Mules in a Gibson Les Paul which I like but I find that they lack 'something'...
I'm not too sure what that 'something' is, but I find the Mules sound a bit thin (perhaps its my Les Paul which is on the bright side). It's not the big PAF sound I was expecting.
So what would people recommend for a set that are similar to the Mules but stronger on bass and mids for a fuller sound?
Stormy Mondays? Riff Raffs? or Black Dogs?
-
Crawlers.
-
What amp are you using?
-
What style of music are you playing?
-
Hmm, i would say RiffRaffs or Black Dogs.
RiffRaffs for a bit more open and spikey tone, BlackDogs for a bit more compressed and meaty tone, whichever you prefer.
-
Not Stormy Mondays, they're a bit polite.
And from what you've said, I think you might find Riff Raffs too bright. But Black Dogs, yes, they could fit the bill.
If you want higher output, as well as a fuller sound, then maybe Crawlers or Abraxas?
-
I never heard a BIG true paf tone
that's a myth
PAfs are very low output and not middy
they CAN sound big in some circunstances, but they are not big sounding by themselves
they are "mild" and articulated
and that's what's cool about them
if you want a BIG tone, get a medium high output model, like the crawler
but black dogs would be more than enough
-
Yea I wasn't too sure how to articulate my problems with the Mules.... and I stil don't!
but it's not the output I have a problem with. The level of output is fine. So perhaps Im wrong to ask for a ballsier alternative.
When I run the Mules clean or at mild drive, they lack 'omph' - that thick, full growl I associate with humbuckers; kind of but not exactly like early 60s Clapton.
Initially I looked at the Stormy Mondays which sound nice but Im not sure they have cut and definition I want (which the Mules do).
so now Im looking into Black Dogs....
-
well if the Black dog would probably be a solid choice, with what you said here, I would second the Abraxas option.
The Stormy Monday is an AII, with a very sweet and clear tone (that you seem to like).
The abraxas neck is powered by an AIV, like the Mule, the Emerald, and the crawler. The bridge is an AV
The BD neck and bridge are AV.
The difference between thoses magnets are explained in the first topic of this section. And here are the words from Tim about the abraxas :
"The Abraxas humbuckers are voiced for a hot, sweet and singing vintage tone.As you all know, original PAFs were all in the DC8-9K region but I wanted to create a pickup that had a similar vibe but more power......a mix of early and modern Santana I guess. The tone is bright yet sweet.............the clarity extends through the bass too and it's a medium output humbucker. In the right hands it'll still rock though. As those of you who are used to the tone of Alnico IV now will know, it's a better balanced version of Alnico II............bottom line, no mush in the bass, balanced mids and sweet highs-not syrupy though! The overall tone is pure vintage but with some extra power for those singing latin leads. For the Abraxas neck I've been doing an Alnico IV version of the Emerald...balanced output with extra sweetness." 8) 8)
So wait for more people to tell you more about those BD and AB. But don't let the latin quarter description fool you : thoses pups rocks !
And at the end : ask Tim !
-
I'm really starting to GAS for an Abraxas set. I wonder how they'd sound in a korina guitar?
-
no idea :lol:
Maybe ask HTH I think he has a high knowledge of them,
If you want to GAs more for them, then check out Jeff Makor Myspace, here,
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=17611.0
well, I think that gives a good overall view (even if it's very very santana-ish-esque)
-
Stormy Mondays do sound very full with a great treble sound, I have Mules as well and although the Mules do sound a little more articulate I find that for certain real paf sounds the AII SMs sound more correct to my ears through my valve amps(Marshall & Laney) I have not tried Abraxas so I can't give any first hand advise!
-
I have a pair of AIV Abraxas in my PRS CU22 and to my ears they sound like higher output Mules for the most part. Not quite as open and a little more compressed (due to the hotter wind I'd guess) but definitely in the same ballpark.
-
ive had a set of PG blues in my 1982 Tokai loverock since april last year,lately i wanted a bit more oomph,a bit more balls if you know what i mean a liitle moore Billy f Gibbons,after a long thread on this very forum and a chat with Tim himself i went for a calibrated Abraxas set,,to me they are the answers to ALL the questions,the tone is there and the power when needed,im mainly just using the volume control now instead of my Hotcake pedal, i cannot recommend these enough......
-
a liitle moore Billy f Gibbons
what now, Moore or Gibbons?
:O)
-
a liitle moore Billy f Gibbons
what now, Moore or Gibbons?
:O)
i think i meant more....
damn these fingers
8)
-
your title describes the Abraxas bridge to a tee - ballsier Mule.
the Abraxas neck is full on vintage though - very clear, but roll back the tone and it gets fatter. ideally I'd like a fatter neck pickup, but you could always use a Mule or Crawler neck to match up with the Axraxas bridge.
-
The Emerald would also fit the bill nicely for a beefier Mule type response
-
the Abraxas neck is full on vintage though - very clear, but roll back the tone and it gets fatter. ideally I'd like a fatter neck pickup, but you could always use a Mule or Crawler neck to match up with the Axraxas bridge.
Would you say the Abraxas neck is less fat than the Mule? That surprises me.
I liked the Abraxas neck better than the Crawler, but I thought the Mule would be a tad brighter and less hot.
-
the Abraxas neck is full on vintage though - very clear, but roll back the tone and it gets fatter. ideally I'd like a fatter neck pickup, but you could always use a Mule or Crawler neck to match up with the Axraxas bridge.
Would you say the Abraxas neck is less fat than the Mule? That surprises me.
I liked the Abraxas neck better than the Crawler, but I thought the Mule would be a tad brighter and less hot.
The neck pickup is 6.9k which explains why it's quite bright. My Mule neck pickup is 7.4k which is just right. I think they're both AIV too, the Mule certainly is.
When I ordered my Mule neck pickup, I told Tim that I can find PAF neck pickups a little weak. He explained that the Crawler neck pickup was a slightly hotter Mule (like 500ohms hotter) and that I might like that instead - thats what my Mule neck pickup is.
I might get the Abraxas neck humbucker rewound a bit hotter, or just sell it - would match better with a Mule or Stormy Monday bridge pickup.
The Abraxas bridge otoh is just perfect - everything you'd want out of a pickup with a PAF tone, but with enough weight to make the notes sing.
-
Weird, I'm pretty sure my Abraxas neck was 7.3k. :? I didn't really find it bright, but it did have a bit more "presence" than some PAF types, if I remember correctly. And you're right, they're both AIV.
Maybe it's another of those cases where Tim has refined the specs?
I think I'll probably still go for a calibrated set (if I get them). They're for a McCarty Korina so it's going to sound pretty sweet and warm anyway.
-
The "average" DC value Tim gave me for the neck position (All AIV powered) are :
Mu : 7.3 K
Ab : 7.4 K
Cr : 7.6 K
BK says the pickups are "Wound, made and played the traditional way --- by hand !" 8)...with an indicative DC resistance. But it's true that an Ab (D.C. 6.9K) weaker than a Mu surprises me too... :?
I liked the Abraxas neck better than the Crawler
The only (important) clue I have to compare the CR and AB neck is what Tim said about them :
"Abraxas and Crawlers are very similar : fat, warm and singing. The Abraxas neck is just a little sweeter, the Crawler neck sounded slightly tougher/more aggressive. the Crawler is a little hotter than Abraxas although both are AIV powered. The Crawler neck takes the neck Mule tone to a much hotter level-DC7.6K Alnico IV." 8) 8)
but I'd be very interested to hear what works for you with the AB neck which didn't worked with the Cr neck ?
And congrat' for the PRS Mc Carty : one of a kind beauty ! Always been curious to know how to the korina sound, compared to mahogany... I know it's off topic but if you can says very few short words on that it would be great !
-
I liked the Abraxas neck better than the Crawler
The only (important) clue I have to compare the CR and AB neck is what Tim said about them :
"Abraxas and Crawlers are very similar : fat, warm and singing. The Abraxas neck is just a little sweeter, the Crawler neck sounded slightly tougher/more aggressive. the Crawler is a little hotter than Abraxas although both are AIV powered. The Crawler neck takes the neck Mule tone to a much hotter level-DC7.6K Alnico IV." 8) 8)
but I'd be very interested to hear what works for you with the AB neck which didn't worked with the Cr neck ?
Well, I think when I got the Crawlers I used pretty much exactly the same words Tim used there :lol: : "The Abraxas neck is just a little sweeter, the Crawler neck sounded slightly tougher/more aggressive".
I was expecting them to sound almost identical, but in fact the difference was quite noticeable. Whenever I try to describe the Crawler bridge, I always say it sounds aggressive and growly. And that also extends to the neck model, to some extent. I like a very warm, singing neck sound and the Abraxas was closer to that.
Of course they were in different guitars (both LPs, but one without a maple top), so that's part of the difference too.
And congrat' for the PRS Mc Carty : one of a kind beauty ! Always been curious to know how to the korina sound, compared to mahogany... I know it's off topic but if you can says very few short words on that it would be great !
It's hard to describe, it is basically similar to mahogany, but somehow it's both brighter and warmer. The tone is really fat, lots of mids, but it also has "presence". On a mahogany guitar, the high notes can sometimes sound a bit thin... with the korina, they sound bright but there seems to be more underlying depth. It's like mahogany with all the tone controls turned up! :)
Of course it's a PRS, and they always seem to use good resonant timbers, I haven't tried any other korina guitars to compare.
-
That's one-of-a-kind input Philly ! Thanks for your tips!
As Tim said the CR and AB neck are similar, I was thinking the difference was subbtle, not that noticeable. But as you said it may has a lot to do with the guitar too...
Anyway, my guess is that the Abraxas is certainly going to have more and more success in the near future... 8)