Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: gwEm on July 06, 2009, 10:27:30 AM
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hi everyone!
i'm looking at vintage fender necks. if you shop around you can get a decent deal on a neck from the US - and theres plenty to choose from. reading up on this online, and theres some decent information in fact, but also some contradiction and so on. but i'm pretty up to speed on serial numbers, date codes, tuners etc.
are the early/mid 70s necks alot nicer quality than the late 70s ones? or is there no real difference? generally speaking there is a difference in price on the secondhand market.
i read that 70s maple boards all have poly finish on the fingerboard - is this true? is it the same feeling as todays poly finished maple necks? (which i don't like the feel of) is there a period where they still took nitro?
not expecting a 70s rosewood neck to be the same quality as a 60s slab rosewood neck, though the playability may be better than a 70s maple one due to the finishing issue. what do people think about that?
all things being equal i prefer maple boards on a fender, but am open to the rosewood suggestion in order to get the most playable neck.
if you had to have a vintage 70s fender neck, would be pick a late or early, rosewood or maple?
anything else to be aware of? are they prone to warping etc etc?
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You need Prawnik to comment on this thread, he seems pretty clued up on vintage Fenders.
I don't know how the shapes varied during the '70s, but I am fairly sure they were gloss poly finished. I think they always sprayed nitro over the headstock decals, though, which is why you see maple-neck Strats with the headstock more yellowed than the rest of the neck.
Or that may all be a load of bollocks, in which case I apologise.
I'm surprised you're finding them at a reasonable price, to be honest. The few times I've noticed '70s necks on eBay they were £500-£600 or more.
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You need Prawnik to comment on this thread, he seems pretty clued up on vintage Fenders.
I don't know how the shapes varied during the '70s, but I am fairly sure they were gloss poly finished. I think they always sprayed nitro over the headstock decals, though, which is why you see maple-neck Strats with the headstock more yellowed than the rest of the neck.
Or that may all be a load of bollocks, in which case I apologise.
I'm surprised you're finding them at a reasonable price, to be honest. The few times I've noticed '70s necks on eBay they were £500-£600 or more.
i saw a couple sell on US ebay over the weekend for £400, not bad nick either... and you can get shonky ones for less
i heard similar about the nitro on the headstock, poly on the rest of the neck. was wondering if that would be the case for the whole of the 70s period
if they really are all poly finish, i may pass on this idea. though i don't mind poly too much with a rosewood board
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I can see the appeal of having a genuine "vintage" Fender neck, but in terms of quality/playability I don't think it would be any better than a new Fender neck or a good copy (I'm trying not to say W_____th because I always seem to be going on about them recently! :lol: ).
But I'm of the generation that grew up in the '70s, when the received wisdom was that all new Fenders were shite and the only ones worth owning were pre-CBS. That's so ingrained that I still can't believe people pay "vintage" prices for '70s Strats, even though I'm sure there must be some great ones out there.
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gwem - if you email rather than PM i can respond much quicker ;) cant Pm from work :(
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gwem - if you email rather than PM i can respond much quicker ;) cant Pm from work :(
just sent you an email to the address on your webpage
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thats the one! its so frustrating when i get asked a question in the morning and cant respond all day :)
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even though I'm sure there must be some great ones out there.
My friends dad has a CBS era strat which he thinks is 1 of only 5 made for Zappa, although i can't be sure how much truth is in that statement (he says himself he isn't too sure about its origins). I've played it once, back when i was a teenager and although i was well into pointy guitars with EMGs and FRs, i remember thinking at the time that it was an awesome guitar.
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I have a mid 1970's Strat with a rosewood board and I love it. I haven't played a maple board version for many a year and so cannot give you much of an answer. I am lucky in that I have one of the great 1970's Strats- they do exist.
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Fender used poly for virtually all their finishing from around '67 except that the front of the headstocks was finished in nitro as the poly reacted with the decal. This is why you get the strange effect where the headstock has yellowed but the rest of the neck is still white.
Incidentally some custom colours such as Candy Apple Red were always done in nitro until it was discountinued in around 1974.
The desirability (and in most peoples opinions including mine the quality) of Strats drops sharply after '74 and consequently an early 70's neck will cost more than a late 70's. For about one year around '72 Fender made a bullet headstock Strat with a single string tree and you would pay a bit more for one of these.
As a general rule the early 70's neck are much better than the later 70s (and I've played a lot of 70's Strats). The late 70s profiles go to a more pronounced U shape and can be quite thin.
Regarding price, sady vintage Strats are worth more in parts than they are as whole guitars so there are several internet vendours buying 'straight' guitars and breaking them for parts; a fairly souless way to make a living.
The main determinant of price is originality and condition, so a mint neck will command a premium price. Check wether the neck has had/ needs a fret etc.
There are a lot of punters out there asking la-la land money, so checked the completed auctions on ebay to find out the real price 70s necks go for. For an early 70s neck in playable condition I wouldn't want to pay more than £400.
Regarding maple vs rosewood, the rosewood on the 70s Fender is often v-v-v-very thin, even compared with a 60s veneer board. This can make refretting a real problem as there isn't much in the way of board left, so I would be slightly more cautious buying a rosewood board.
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thanks for the great responses so far!
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Philly: you rang?
I've been out of the country, so sorry if I am trying to revive a dead horse, but do you have a general preference for rosewood vs. maple?
Otherwise, all other things being equal, I'd go with the rosewood, mostly because the CBS poly finishes can be very thick. On a maple neck, this can make you can feel like you are playing a piece of plastic. I am not sure how much that really affects tone, especially through an amp, but a lot of people don't like the feel.
Otherwise, most of the advice is dead on, although I would say that a lot of the complaints with late '70's necks are related to the fretwork. Frets take take to get right and CBS often rushed necks though. However, this is relatively easy to fix, even if the neck hasn't been refretted already.
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If you are desperate to get through a poly finish you could always use an abrasive to smooth it out and make it less 'sticky' (say a low to medium grit glasspaper then a going over with wire wool and beeswax.).
Though I would wait for this method to be confirmed as a good idea by one of the luthier members before jumping on the opportunity.
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Now, I have been rumored to take down the back of a guitar neck and roll the fretboard edges to simulate a guitar that has been played (hint: don't use steel wool or a sanding block. Use a sanding sponge or a fiberglass kitchen scouring pad instead.)
But the problem with CBS poly finishes is more on the fretboard itself. The finish on a fretboard is hard to take down, unless you are prepared to remove the frets.
Apparently, CBS/Fender didn't spray poly on rosewood fretboards.
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Now, I have been rumored to take down the back of a guitar neck and roll the fretboard edges to simulate a guitar that has been played (hint: don't use steel wool or a sanding block. Use a sanding sponge or a fiberglass kitchen scouring pad instead.)
How do you roll the fretboard edges? It's a question I've asked before, but there seem to be a number of different approaches!
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i do mine with a sharp razor blade - the same way fender do it i believe. it takes a sharp blade and a light touch but works really well all all but really grainy wood (wenge and the like)
i agree that dulling the fretboard is a whole other issue to dulling the neck. hard to do as easy as the back unless you can get the frets out the way
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Get a vintage squier JV neck, YES!
Im not used to maple fretboards so i would pick rosewood. I find all maple necks bend smoother as only real difference.
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i do mine with a sharp razor blade - the same way fender do it i believe. it takes a sharp blade and a light touch but works really well all all but really grainy wood (wenge and the like)
Yeah, I'm afraid to try that method! :lol: I don't really like using very sharp things, and I just know I'd end up nicking a few chunks out of the edges of the board.
If it's feasible I'd prefer to sand/file it, including the ends of the frets, so the whole edge of the board is rounded (like an EB/Music Man, rather than the only-between-the-frets, almost slightly "scalloped" effect you see on some guitars). I know that means you lose a bit from the overall width of the fret, but I like the feel.
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ah well - i use the blade to avoid the scalloped feel. the blade lets me get an even roundover all down the fretboard between every fret, even the high ones. when i have sanded its ended up rounder in the middle and less so at the frets and the low frets tend to get more rounded over than the high ones. more like natural wear in that respect but it doesnt look as neat
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Yeah, I see what you mean - the sanding might give more of a scalloped feel... Would a hard rubber sanding block help, or is the problem simply that the metal fret ends are much harder than the wood inbetween them?
Hmm, this is a proper dilemma. I really, really dislike the sharp edges on Warmoth necks, but I don't want to risk $%&#ing them up either. :(
Maybe I should tough it out and try a razor blade.
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just be gentle and give it a go!!
if not then the other way i have done it is to go across (rather than along and hitting the frets as you go) the fretboard with a sanding stick (sandpaper stuck to a lollipop stick or and other long thin bit of wood)
the problem with that is that the sanding scratches are going the wrong way so you need to sand along the neck at some point
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just be gentle and give it a go!!
:lol: I guess I'll have to!
I've just been finding as many threads as I can about it on the Tele forum. It just gets more confusing, some say do it before fretting, some after, then there are various approaches with sandpaper, blades... and "crushing" the edges by rolling them with a screwdriver or something...
I'll dig out my old Squier neck and try a few different methods.
(Edit: Sorry for the thread hijack! :oops: )
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i would never do it before fretting, other than that anything goes
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here you can adress the master with the question: http://www.hugeracksinc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59312&highlight=
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here you can adress the master with the question: http://www.hugeracksinc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59312&highlight=
Ah, Tyler! That's who I was thinking of when I said about the "scalloped" look.
I've never played one - maybe it feels great - but at least visually I prefer the Fender/Music Man approach, where it's more evenly rounded all along the edge, rather than dipping between the frets like that.
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here you can adress the master with the question: http://www.hugeracksinc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59312&highlight=
Ah, Tyler! That's who I was thinking of when I said about the "scalloped" look.
I've never played one - maybe it feels great - but at least visually I prefer the Fender/Music Man approach, where it's more evenly rounded all along the edge, rather than dipping between the frets like that.
I played one. It feels like a natural fit for your hand and afterwards every other neck seems artificial.
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i like the tyler style roundover for a more vintage/relic feel - doesnt look right on a new modern styled guitar though
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I roll fretboard edges using a scr@per, but someone with a more steady hand could use a razor blade.
An actual well-worn Fender fretboard will have the "scalloped" effect going on.
@ whoever said JV Squier necks: they are excellent quality necks, especially if you like that profile. (I am pretty indifferent to shape and profile, as long as the neck is wide. For some other people, neck shape is a matter of life and death.)
The only thing with the JV neck is that the rosewood necks are slab boards, not veneer, and have a skunk stripe, unlike an actual 1970's Fender Strat neck. Also, the 12th fret dot spacing is off. I think their maple necks are more accurate, but I am not 100% sure.
If those things bother you, that is.
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I roll fretboard edges using a scr@per, but someone with a more steady hand could use a razor blade.
the razor blade is used as an instant scr@per, i dont cut the wood with it
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just to endorse the razor blade approach. i used it on a couple of necks since i learned about it here from wez. works well
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Usually if a Fender maple neck has been refretted the finger board should have been refinished, so it could be that a refretted neck plays better due to lighter poly coat than the original.
If you've got a maple neck that needs refretting you could ask for a lighter poly coat on the finger board.
From my recollection in the 70s Fender actually sprayed maple necks after they had been fretted, so there is often a lot of poly lacquer built up around the base of the frets.
For what it's worth, I find the early 70's maple necks more playable than the rosewood, which is odd as I generally favour rosewood fingerboards on Strats.
The late 70s necks are too thin across the nut for my taste, although obviously this could suit some people (I have quite large hands). I would agree with an earlier post though — the fretting on late 70s Fenders is often poor. The nuts are often cut really badly too.
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Will a (new) Stanley blade be sharp enough? I have a bit of a phobia of razor blades (a lifetime watching horror movies...)
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as long as its fresh it should be alright. the razors area bit easier though. a light touch is essential with either and the thinness and slight flexibilty of the razors helps with that
maybe practice on some thing else first to develop the technique.... my dining table has some hand rolled edges ;)
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as long as its fresh it should be alright. the razors area bit easier though. a light touch is essential with either and the thinness and slight flexibilty of the razors helps with that
maybe practice on some thing else first to develop the technique.... my dining table has some hand rolled edges ;)
would be great if you could make a youtue vid!
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i tried to look if there already was one - but no joy. maybe i will at some point. either that or a photo essay
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done!
new thread
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=18062.0
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One thing that is probably sort of obvious, but it is an important point which noone has said and therefore should be mentioned:
Talking Strat necks: unless you get a neck before mid-1971 or so, you will get a three-bolt neck. Strat necks before that time are much more expensive (and therefore also much more frequently faked.)
IIRC, Teles and most low-end Fenders (Mustangs and the like) always had four-bolt necks. At the time, the three-bolt was marketed as a desirable thing, believe it or not.
hi everyone!
i'm looking at vintage fender necks. if you shop around you can get a decent deal on a neck from the US - and theres plenty to choose from. reading up on this online, and theres some decent information in fact, but also some contradiction and so on. but i'm pretty up to speed on serial numbers, date codes, tuners etc.
are the early/mid 70s necks alot nicer quality than the late 70s ones? or is there no real difference? generally speaking there is a difference in price on the secondhand market.
i read that 70s maple boards all have poly finish on the fingerboard - is this true? is it the same feeling as todays poly finished maple necks? (which i don't like the feel of) is there a period where they still took nitro?
not expecting a 70s rosewood neck to be the same quality as a 60s slab rosewood neck, though the playability may be better than a 70s maple one due to the finishing issue. what do people think about that?
all things being equal i prefer maple boards on a fender, but am open to the rosewood suggestion in order to get the most playable neck.
if you had to have a vintage 70s fender neck, would be pick a late or early, rosewood or maple?
anything else to be aware of? are they prone to warping etc etc?
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This is only a personal opinion , and it'll probably upset people : I'm old enough to remember 70s Fenders when they were new . I can' t see why anyone would consider spending decent money on one , and the best place for any parts would be in a skip! If you really want the 70s vibe , get a Highway One Strat - great guitars for little outlay , and certainly better than anything that came out of Fullerton back in " the decade that taste forgot ".
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I remember 1970's Fenders when you could not give them away.
IMHO, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with 1970's Fender necks that some fretwork will not fix. Fender used decent quality maple in its necks, even then. Bodies, again, IMHO, are another matter, espcially ash bodies which were often made from some tone-free wood that was rejected as too heavy for shilleaughs.
I do not care for the Highway One necks at all, but that is because they are a sort of "fun vintage" that does not appeal to me. You may feel differently and all that.
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This is only a personal opinion , and it'll probably upset people : I'm old enough to remember 70s Fenders when they were new . I can' t see why anyone would consider spending decent money on one , and the best place for any parts would be in a skip! If you really want the 70s vibe , get a Highway One Strat - great guitars for little outlay , and certainly better than anything that came out of Fullerton back in " the decade that taste forgot ".
Well I would argue that the decade taste forgot is the 80's........
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Well I would argue that the decade taste forgot is the 80's........
Agreed 100%!! :lol:
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I have a 1970's Strat that I would never sell or swap.Plays beautifully and sounds better than any Strat I have ever played. I don't dispute that there were issues with QC but I suspect the same could be said of any era of construction. I have played some poor 1970's Strats but I have also played a few ropey pre CBS ones.
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I've played some fantastic early 70's Strats.
Still not 100% convinced by the large headstock though...........
I would also agree that there are some duff pre CBS Strats out there, although to be fair many of them have been butchered.
Having said that, I really like the sound of good early 60's Strats. I also don't think that any of the modern Fender Custom shop Strats or Nashs, McGuires etc, although they are excellent guitars, capture the sound of the early 60's Strats.