Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: Ian Price on July 21, 2009, 06:52:00 PM
-
and now want to get rid of my UX1 and replace it with something hand held and cheap. Was considering either the Micro BR or BR600. Other than the obvious size difference I'm assuming that features etc are pretty similar?
Has anyone got experience of both of these? Would like to hear opinions.
-
What seems to be the problem (other than it sounding horrible), and what do you want your kit to be able to do?
-
What seems to be the problem (other than it sounding horrible), and what do you want your kit to be able to do?
I just don't get on with recording programmes i.e. cubase. The sound is pretty bad from the line 6 and I end up bypassing it most of the time and using an SM57 infrot of my amp. I also want portability as I have a piano downstairs and have started bashing a few chords round on it.
-
You really should spend some time with a DAW and get to grips with the basics, the learning curve can be steep but once you get the basics they're pretty transferable. If you're using a mac Logic is unbelievably easy to use and learn and in the grand scheme of things getting to grips with the basics of Protools isn't bad.
Probably no help sorry, just my two penneth 8)
-
Might I suggest not getting anything you cant plug a mic into?
Those look ok for just throwing somewhere and not giving a shite about the sound, just recording what happened with no regard for tone, but if youre going to get good sounds you need carefull mic placement, which in their case means carefull device placement, which means youre going to have to get up and muck about with it and move it and get inconsistent sounds recorded (if they sound any good to begin with, which I dont know).
I'm a little tempted to get the little one myself, just as a notepad. But I wouldnt use it to record properly, or even semi-properly.
Maybe a standalone with some ok mic pres and phantom power so you can get a condenser for your piano?
-
Oh, yeah, or learn the DAW. I loathe them as much as the next guy, but once you get to grips with any given one you can use it very fluidly.
And if you do, I'd get a laptop, USB interface (a proper one, not that line 6 tat; or semi-proper at least - emu or edirol or similar), and then youre set, again. Far more powerfull setup - you use as much of it as you need to.
-
I hate the BR range, my experience I'm better with Line 6. However that's me not you, and there are packs for Line 6 which do improve the Line 6 sound.
-
Oh, yeah, or learn the DAW. I loathe them as much as the next guy, but once you get to grips with any given one you can use it very fluidly.
And if you do, I'd get a laptop, USB interface (a proper one, not that line 6 tat; or semi-proper at least - emu or edirol or similar), and then youre set, again. Far more powerfull setup - you use as much of it as you need to.
+1
Yea, don't skimp on the interface! The Apogee duet is great, sound wise it's basically a mini Apogee Ensemble. Bear in mind if you have Protools LE, it will tell ya to sod off unless you use an interface it likes.
-
I hate the BR range, my experience I'm better with Line 6. However that's me not you, and there are packs for Line 6 which do improve the Line 6 sound.
That is SO not a selling point to me. Its $%&#ing bullshitee in fact.
You buy a line 6 piece of shite, then you have to buy more things to make it sound good. Riiiiiiiiight. They can go $%&# themselves.
This is the business strategy of someone that knows fine well that most guitarists dont realise that the actual modeller is pretty inconsequential - its just a computer thats designed to process larger packets of data with a lower clock speed. It in and of itself has no sound any more than your PC does (except the ones with valves in, and then only a little bit). Its the software, the models, that matter, so they keep their best ones off the actual product release so they can sell you the good ones as well later.
Its not a plus that you can buy more patches and keep giving L6 money, its a sneaky business practice to milk you.
-
I would try Reaper before you give up completely :) Its so much more intuitive and easy to use than Cubase imo. And it doesnt really cost anything.
-
Oh, yeah, or learn the DAW. I loathe them as much as the next guy, but once you get to grips with any given one you can use it very fluidly.
And if you do, I'd get a laptop, USB interface (a proper one, not that line 6 tat; or semi-proper at least - emu or edirol or similar), and then youre set, again. Far more powerfull setup - you use as much of it as you need to.
+1
Yea, don't skimp on the interface! The Apogee duet is great, sound wise it's basically a mini Apogee Ensemble. Bear in mind if you have Protools LE, it will tell ya to sod off unless you use an interface it likes.
True, but he's using cubase, which doesnt have Digide$igns monopolistic marketing tactics; it'll work with anything.
Cubase + Emu 0404 + SM57 + BX8-As + HD280s = great place to start. Should keep you busy for a good while; theres a shite load you can do with that, and make decent sound. Add one more mic and the number of possibilities explodes again.
-
I would try Reaper before you give up completely :) Its so much more intuitive and easy to use than Cubase imo. And it doesnt really cost anything.
I liked reaper for a bit. Till I started screwing with effects and vsts on it and got HORRIBLE latency problems (on my fireface 800; ~2ms in and out). Went back to the least intuitive and most powerfull DAW out there - sonar producer (7 in my case); zero problems (except learning to use the $%&#ing thing!).
never had a problem with SX3 either. Would still be using it if it worked on vista 64.
-
Its weird that you have those problems. I've never had that, using either my onboard soundcard or Edirol UA25EX, neither of which are as "good" as your interface :?
-
I know. I'd probably still be using it if it werent for that - its so much easier than sonar and not exactly incapable software.
I did record one chap with it that just wanted utterly raw sound - bit of a hippy, dead against anything 'artificial', so no VSTs or digital effects!
I've formatted since then, so I may reinstall it and see if I get the same problems. It is nice stuff. I especially liked the way it handles DFH (just not that it plays it with a half-second delay!!)
-
Another +1 for logic. I got the express version as my First DAW and it was pretty easy to learn to use.
Did it all through trial and error and looking on the internet.
You'll get much better results with a DAW and interface over a BR.
You may as well just get a cheap minidisk player with a mic.
-
Get the MBR. (Edit "Boss Micro BR" - thanks gwem! :lol:)
I got it as a "scratchpad" as a chrimbo pressie, that's all I intended to use it for... and within hours I found out what else it could do (I recorded my first multi-tracked thing at the same time as cooking the chrimbo dinner :lol:)
Every single clip and mastered song I've posted on here was done on the MBR.
Outboard stuff I use is as follows:
- A Rode Condensor mic (and dbx compressor/gate) for any final vocal work. The onboard MBR mic is ok for guide vox and final accoustic guitar takes(!) It's just not worth the hassle of setting up the external mic etc for accoustics.
- Mixing desk (but only to supply my Rode mic with phantom power, or if I want to listen to the MBR output on my studio monitors :lol:)
- Vox Tonelab for guitar amp modelling (but the MBR has decent enough models to get going with)
- POD XT Live for bass amp modelling and providing power to my Variax bass
That's it... I nearly offloaded WAV tracks to use Cakewalk or Audacity for mixing on my last project, but I really couldn't be @rsed in the end - the results out of the MBR are better than my current DAW set up can manage.
Go to my soundclick site (link in my sig below) - I think they've all got details of what they were recorded on, but off the top of my head, the following are MBR only creations:
Sooner or later
If we should sing together
Big dog blues
Muletide
They all sound better in their WAV versions, but Sooner or Later is the only one that's really suffered much from artefacts in the mp3 versions I've posted.
There might be other songs on there that I've done with the MBR, I can't remember (I can't access soundclick from work).
There's another song I haven't posted there because it's a cover, but it's here:
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=15809.0 (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=15809.0)
I have learnt an awful lot about recording in the last 6 months or so - all on, and because of, the MBR. I've had a DAW for 5 years at least - didn't manage to learn those lessons.
They're just tools these things, the whole lot of them.
If you're a beginner in engineering/producing - and most of us are, not all, but most of us - then I really recommend that you get a tool that enables you to get some sh1t going...
Then get the nut-cracking-hammer (an up-to-date DAW with all the bells and whistles, expensive souncard, etc, etc) when you feel like you're getting somewhere... otherwise you'll drive yourself bonkers and the DAW will gather dust.
I'm ready to start fighting a DAW again now, but I'd still rather use the MBR, it's FUN making music with it! - that approx £150 my missus spent on me for chrimbo was well spent :D
EDIT: This is all (very) personal opinion, obviously :D - but if you've been fiddling with a DAW like me... and not getting as far as you like, or stuck, or whatever, consider something like the MBR as a "toy" - you can get serious later - it'll teach you loads.
-
just worked out MBR stands for Micro BR :)
no one could argue with the audio quality of the songs you posted that you did with it!
-
just worked out MBR stands for Micro BR :)
no one could argue with the audio quality of the songs you posted that you did with it!
:lol: - sorry about that, I'm used to typing it on the bossbr.net site - I'll amend it above :D
I think there's two reasons for the upping in levels of quality in my worK:
a) The MBR is restrictive, I have to think and be creative in an "old fashioned" kind of way, but you do end up concentrating on the music rather than the technology
b) I suspect the "soundcard" inside the MBR is far better quality than the Edirol box I use on the laptop - everything's warmer and more natural...
-
Warmer rather implies that its worse. Good soundcards have extended and transparent high ends. But, whatever sounds good is good.
I just ordered an emu 0202 to attach to the laptop thats near-permanently infront of me in the lounge. I was going to get an MBR at first, but it looked really incapable and rubbish, even for just bashing a guitar on the couch with the TV on silent.
So, since I use my pod XT as my lounge amp (lined into a cube 15, since I hate both of them they dont ruin two rooms this way - besides, I got a tone I dont completely hate out of it. Took me an afternoon to find it, but its there now). I can just as easily send another out from the pod to the 0202, have SX3 on the LT, I already have HD25s sitting next to the LT at all times and its lined out to a decent hifi amp and speakers anyway - bash out guitar parts, work out harmonies and structure and whatnot so I can record them properly (in the studio setup). Failing that I can mic up easily enough.
It seems to me that something similar would suit you rather well, Ian. Maybe replace the pod with a vst amp sim of your choice? Or a line out from your amp?
-
I always found those small integrated units such as the MBR to be fiddly and annoying compared to software recording solutions.. I've only used tascams though and cant really argue with Andys recordings which always sound very good :)
-
for what its worth:
i mic up my cab, or take my sansamp direct
record this into my zoom mrs-8 digital multitrack
import the tracks on to my computer as WAV or AIFF
use them in my favourite DAW - ableton live
i like this way of working
-
See I always find that way too much effort, when you can record straight into the DAW of your choice with no faffing about :)
-
I have to agree with you Tom on the "fiddly" aspect of the MBR - eg no faders, and you have to bounce "blind" like they did in the 60s (bounce parts together before you know how the rest of the mix is going to sound), and a number of things that you can do in a DAW "easily" but takes a whole bunch of improvisation to achieve it with the MBR.
It is very much "horses for courses" - as I was writing my earlier essay, I was thinking of you: you seem to find your way effortlessly into creating well produced, arranged, and musical, recordings with the straight into the DAW method (I'm sure it's not as "effortless" as I imagine though :lol:).
With me, on a DAW, I find I start turning into Roy Thomas Baker without the experience/no-how :lol:
The MBR works for me at the moment because it lets me concentrate on performances and arrangements, it makes me think about sounds, and it forces me to consider expediency and efficiency (ie "how can I get the outcome I imagine with the least bluddy effort?" :lol:).
MDV - it's interesting what you say about "warmer implying worse". I can see exactly how that might be... my brain tells me it's so. But at the moment I approach recordings in a slightly less scientific manner - I'm trying to make recordings sound like records I like. I'll be back on the DAW soon to check this out, but my experience with the two methods so far is that to get the warmth into my DAW recordings I end up losing clarity and definition - on the MBR it's just there already, I'm not really doing anything to make it happen, and my recordings are coming out with more clarity and definition.
It's a real "what?!" situation for me - but I can't be bothered to investigate at the moment, for the first time in about 10 years I'm fired up about creating music - I'm getting new ideas, and even better, I'm finishing projects.
(Oh btw, "records I like", this might have some bearing on it - they were mostly recorded in the 60s!!)
-
See I always find that way too much effort, when you can record straight into the DAW of your choice with no faffing about :)
you're right... but only IF the daw/interface/computer decides not to f_ck up somehow