Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: Mr. Air on August 06, 2009, 09:39:36 AM
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I just gotten around to installing a nailbomb bridge in my LP copy and when I plugged it in I found that it was impossible to clean up the tone by turning down the volume. I still got the old pots that came with the guitar in and I wonder if they're just so cr@ppy that they're not able to clean up the tone. Am I guessing right?
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i've just had the same problem into my Vintage/Modern with Mississippi Queens in an Epiphone. it does kinda clean up, but it turns to a dull mud. i got the same thing with the Miracle Man in my epi 7 string, but i figured that was just the Miracle Man. the ceramic pickups in my Gibson MIII clean up nicely with the volume pot though. looks like we're going to have to do some pot shopping! ;)
does anyone reckon a treble bleed capacitor would be a good idea?
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A Treble Bleed Kit can't hurt and at £2 it's worth a go. I'm gonna add these myself.
http://www.axesrus.com/axeElectronicsCaps.htm
Be careful choosing your new pots - I think you want metric and long shaft for all asian LP copies.
Good luck.
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actually, when i got my Miracle Man/Mule set way back when, Tim sent me a couple of long shaft pots, and they don't fit in the Epi. i used short shafts instead. not to say all far eastern Les Pauls are the same, best to check your own.
Thanks for the link Dave, i think i'll get a handful of those myself :)
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Yup, best to check and check again... I always get the wrong size everything. :(
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Here's a rookie question. How many sizes do pots come in? And while I'm at it. How do you install the treble bleed capacitor?
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Regarding pot "size", it depends which dimensions you're talking about:
Shaft diameter is either approx 10mm (US pots) or 8mm (metric pots - Japanese, Korean).
Shaft length varies a bit, but the ones used in Strats, Teles, SGs etc are pretty much a standard length - the threaded part is roughly 3/8", at a guess. You'll also see pots described as "long shaft" (about 3/4") which are really only needed for Les Pauls because of their thick, arched tops. Some LPs have multi-depth control cavities so standard pots will fit - take your old ones out to check!
The size of the main body of the pot doesn't really matter as long as there's room in the control cavity, but a standard pot (US or metric) is about an inch wide. You also see miniature pots, mostly in import guitars, EMG use them too.
Here's a diagram for a treble bleed cap:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=treble_bleed (http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=treble_bleed)
The resistor is optional, and you can experiment with cap values. I think Fender use 0.001.
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So do you use the treble bleed when you just have a volume pot and no tone? or is it also useful for with a tone pot?
I normally get long pots for my LP, but generally they seem a bit too long, i just put a washer on the inside too so i can adjust the height accordingly.
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Thanks for the answers, but I think my main question is still unanswered :). Can low quality pots cause lack of cleaning up when the volume is rolled back? And JUST yet another question. Which sort of capacitor should be used. The cheap ceramic ones or the more expensives like paper in oil?
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For a treble bleed the audiophile quality of capacitor doesn't matter, use a ceramic.
A treble bleed is just as useful (maybe more so) in a guitar without tone controls.
The resistor is there to preserve the bass spectrum as you roll down the volume. (according to Steve Blucher @ Dimarzio)
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So do you use the treble bleed when you just have a volume pot and no tone? or is it also useful for with a tone pot?
It'll work either way. The only reason the tone pot isn't shown in that diagram is that the tone control wiring is exactly the same with or without a treble bleed.
Thanks for the answers, but I think my main question is still unanswered :). Can low quality pots cause lack of cleaning up when the volume is rolled back? And JUST yet another question. Which sort of capacitor should be used. The cheap ceramic ones or the more expensives like paper in oil?
I personally don't think a low quality pot will affect the guitar's ability to clean up. The main difference between a "good" pot and a "bad" one is the smoothness of the taper - with a good pot, the volume changes smoothly from 0 to 10. With cheap pots, everything happens between 0 and 3, or between 9 and 10. If your pot controls the volume well enough, then it should also clean up the sound.... if it's going to.
I think the ability to clean up the sound by "riding" the volume control is much more to do with the amp settings and the properties of the pickups. I'm no expert on this... but it seems to me it works best with single-coils and lower-output humbuckers.
Capacitors are a whole different discussion! Some think expensive caps are worth every penny, most will agree that cheap ceramic caps are inconsistent. Sprague Orange Drops do the job well and aren't expensive.
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Sprague Orange Drops do the job well and aren't expensive
What voltage? 400 or 100? (those are the options I've found. Don't know if they come in other voltages?)
And once more thanks for the replies.
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Sprague Orange Drops do the job well and aren't expensive
What voltage? 400 or 100? (those are the options I've found. Don't know if they come in other voltages?)
And once more thanks for the replies.
Only Eric Johnson might be able to help...
Go for 400 you shouldn't be able to notice any difference anyway!
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It'll work either way. The only reason the tone pot isn't shown in that diagram is that the tone control wiring is exactly the same with or without a treble bleed.
So you still "need" a capacitor for the tone pot, right?
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Yep, otherwise it's another volume pot ;)
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Yep, otherwise it's another volume pot
Aha! There's nothing like learing new stuff every day. The life of the noob :lol:
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Yep, otherwise it's another volume pot
Aha! There's nothing like learing new stuff every day. The life of the noob :lol:
:lol:
I could take the same approach to my guitar playing! If I wasn't completely bone idle.
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Yep, otherwise it's another volume pot
Aha! There's nothing like learing new stuff every day. The life of the noob :lol:
:lol:
I could take the same approach to my guitar playing! If I wasn't completely bone idle.
So Philly. Are you more of a collector than a player? Or maybe not collector but guitar technician...
I just ordered some of the treble bleed capacitors that Dave linked to earlier in this thread. I'm looking foreward to trying these out. Also ordered new pots for the LP. Thought it coldn't hurt and they seem to be normal size pots, if that term excists.
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My rule of thumb is..
"If its Asian, replace the wiring, caps and pots" - cheap to replace parts and the process can unlock a hidden gem.
Many Asian guitars are great when you just give em some love. :)
Let us know how it goes.
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My rule of thumb is..
"If its Asian, replace the wiring, caps and pots" - cheap to replace parts and the process can unlock a hidden gem.
Many Asian guitars are great when you just give em some love. :)
Let us know how it goes.
I'll let you know for sure. If I was to replace the wiring what would be the ideal sollution and how big effect does the wiring have at the overall sound? The last one might be difficult to answer. How would one be able to measure the wirings effect? :?
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I almost forgot. Should the treble bleed capacitor be wired in series or parallel? A guy who wrote an article on the subject didn't like parallel (something to do wioth the volume, can't exactly remember).
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So Philly. Are you more of a collector than a player? Or maybe not collector but guitar technician...
In a word, yes. :lol:
I love guitars, love taking them apart and putting them together. But I'm too lazy and/or talentless to be a good player.
On the last couple of treble bleed questions, I don't know - but it's cheap and easy to experiment. :D
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But I'm too lazy and/or talentless to be a good player.
But what constitutes a good player? I would definitely not call myself talented and don't find myself that good either. And I know so little about the technical stuff.
Even though. No reason for not loving and enjoying guitars! :D
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I just recieved the new pots and switch and of course I was eager to give my guitar the makeover. But sadly I realized that I'd pulled off an Afghan Dave :lol:
Yup, best to check and check again... I always get the wrong size everything.
Wrong size of everything except from the jack socket. Anyone who knows where to get good metric sized pots?
The 3 way switch I ordered is longer than the one I got in the guitar know just not long enough in the right place. The tip of the switch where the "bolt" locks (I don't know the English word for this part) is too short. Where to get a size that fits?
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If the pots don't fit, I use a reamer to make the hole bigger.
I don't think there are any metric sized pots that are as good as CTS (et al), and if you really want to put the original pots back at some point you can and it won't be too noticeable, you can even get small plastic adapter rings or metal sleeves to make them fit if you need to.
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A bit of rolled up sandpaper or a file will get the holes just that little bit bigger and there really isn't a downside to doing this.
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Thanks for the tips guys. I hope I didn't offend you Dave by naming buying the wrong sized electronics an Afghan Dave :P
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No, not at all mate.
Remember "all's well that ends well" :D
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id overlooked this thread.
might try this on my LTD. ive started writing songs with roll offs for cleans and this could be cool in my les paul too.
so its just a resistor and cap in parallel across the volume input and wiper. and the wiper still connects to the tone pot via the .022 cap?
(sorry if thats a dumb question, its very late)
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I put a 0.001 uF metal film capasitor on the master volume of my Gretsch. Some like to add a resistor to it but that ruins the taper.
Get the good ones like the Sprague Orange drop or a WIMA not some cheap ceramic disc cap.
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got this up and running on the two vol pots of my LTD.
gonna play around tomorrow then maybe apply the changes to my les paul before the gig tomorrow night
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got this up and running on the two vol pots of my LTD.
gonna play around tomorrow then maybe apply the changes to my les paul before the gig tomorrow night
I'm really looking foreward to hearing more :D