Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: duke84 on August 15, 2009, 06:05:12 PM
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I am looking for a new guitar and am wondering where the difference between a Gibson Les Paul and an ESP Eclipse lies.
The specs seem to be very similar, except that, as far as I know, the Esp has a thinner body and Emg active pickups.
However the Esp is a lot cheaper so I'm not sure if that is a sign of poorer quality or just Gibson overpricing their merchandise because it says Gibson on the headstock.
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esp uses a cheaper asian mahogany, plastic inlays, thin body, different body shape
I'd pick an edwards over an esp clipse II any day
the esp eclipse ctm I has the correct thickness and a closer shape, but it's more expensive than a used gibson custom or a new standard
a navigator is exactly like a custom shop gibson, including wood species, but it's just as expensive as a custom shop gibson
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Isn't Edwards ESP's budget line? I didn't like the neck profile on the Eclipse I tried and in honesty it did feel a bit cheap which was disapointing because I was really interested, they look great. The only Lespauls that have stood out as outstanding to me are late 80s and early 90s standards.
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^ edwards is kinda for the japanese market. I think grassroots is the really budget line, Edwards is inbetween. Subjective, but IMO they're better than LTDs, but perhaps not quite as good as full-on ESPs. However, you have a bigger choice of vintage-style models with edwards. I think they're started off in china too, not 100% MIJ as used to be claimed/as was supposed by the customers. Very nice guitars, though they're nowhere near as good value as they were because of the pound's fall against the yen recently- a japanese-made tokai or similar which you can get here in the UK more easily, plus get to try first, is probably a better bet at the moment.
regarding the eclipse versus the gibson- the gibson will feel and sound a lot more vintage, the esp a lot more modern, especially if you go for the EMG model.
doesn't esp use african mahogany? I'm not certain, but i'd have thought so. Could be wrong, of course. And doesn't gibson use african for its non-CS models? Again, not certain, but what I've been hearing.
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esp uses a cheaper asian mahogany, plastic inlays, thin body, different body shape
I think your talking about the cheap ltd series?
My Esp Eclipse (japanese made) has the original les paul shape and has MOP inlays, and i doubt they use a cheaper grade mahogany :?
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esp uses a cheaper asian mahogany, plastic inlays, thin body, different body shape
I think your talking about the cheap ltd series?
My Esp Eclipse (japanese made) has the original les paul shape and has MOP inlays, and i doubt they use a cheaper grade mahogany :?
That's the Eclipse Full Thickness one, which is like a Les Paul but I doubt they would cut back on good materials for the Standard series, I tried an Eclipse and loved it.
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esp uses a cheaper asian mahogany, plastic inlays, thin body, different body shape
I'd pick an edwards over an esp clipse II any day
the esp eclipse ctm I has the correct thickness and a closer shape, but it's more expensive than a used gibson custom or a new standard
a navigator is exactly like a custom shop gibson, including wood species, but it's just as expensive as a custom shop gibson
Gibson uses plastic inlays, whereas ESP use abalone or MOP, and an eclipse 1 CTM costs a good £400-£500 less than a new Les Paul Standard, so I'm not really sure what you're on about :?
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depends on what you mean by "good quality materials", really. African mahogany is considered "good" too, and is used on many high-end brands (French-made Lags spring to mind, and they're upwards of £1k, often two or three thousand), but historically Gibson used Honduran Mahogany, I think. Though as I said, I don't think they use Honduran now, on the non-CS models anyway. I'm not certain, though. :lol: EDIT: a lot of the japanese companies will use african mahogany too, which is why i thought it might be african on the ESP.
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esp uses a cheaper asian mahogany, plastic inlays, thin body, different body shape
I think your talking about the cheap ltd series?
My Esp Eclipse (japanese made) has the original les paul shape and has MOP inlays, and i doubt they use a cheaper grade mahogany :?
by cheaper, a mean a cheaper priced species, not a cheaper grade of the same wood
they don't sound the same
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depends on what you mean by "good quality materials", really. African mahogany is considered "good" too, and is used on many high-end brands (French-made Lags spring to mind, and they're upwards of £1k, often two or three thousand), but historically Gibson used Honduran Mahogany, I think. Though as I said, I don't think they use Honduran now, on the non-CS models anyway. I'm not certain, though. :lol: EDIT: a lot of the japanese companies will use african mahogany too, which is why i thought it might be african on the ESP.
Gibson used african mahogany in part of Norlin era, I think
apparently they used in the 50's too
but the new ones are definitely honduras
I had 2 SG Faded (the cheapest model ever) and I have no doubt they were honduran mahogany
I also had a brazilian les paul in brazilian mahogany (same species as the honduran)
they had EXACTLY the same grain, resonance, smell, texture, greasiness in the cavities
I'd even say that those SG had better pieces of wood than my 1970-1972 Les Paul Custom
they also had flawless fretboard and overall construction
I don't know what ESP uses, but it's definitely another species
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are they? i was under the impression they didn't use honduras any more. :)
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I cannot speak from experience with the Edwards although my research has convinced me that if I every buy another guitar it will be a Edwards les paul. I have played the ESP. People like the eclipse for its better access and 24 frets. My opinion of many ESPs that I have played is that they feel like machines. There are some better ones but they are nothing special. I would think that Edwards is superior because it is like the Navigator models. Some people like the esp and I am not one of them. Thats just my opinion
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ESP uses high-grade woods on the Japan ones. I'm quite sure the inlays are not plastic.
One guy called pushead on the ESP Forum had both a Gibson custom (the black one with the ebony board) and an Eclipse Full Thickness CTM-1 (that one costs a bit more). he had the same pickup configuration in them and they sounded virtually indistinguishable (EMG 60/81). He even made some clips for the rest of the forum, but I trust the guy,he has quite a lot of LesPauls anyway. So much for the different wood species. It's just a matter of what you compare.
The ESp has a thinner neck profile and jumbo frets which will feel different from the Gibson one. On the good side, the neck is faster in response, notes are clearer distinguishable.
IMO the Eclipses are great value but they have a bit of their own sound; they are not "close to an SG though", as some people sometimes say, there's def more bite from the maple cap and more LesPaul in there than SG.
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I'm quite sure the inlays are not plastic.
and I'm sure that is plastic
I'm VERY obsessed with that, and that's my biggest turnoff on ESP
Gibson is also using plastic for Standards and Studios for 20 years
apparently the new non-custom shop 2009 Customs have plastic too, but I never saw one like this
I think I've seen one or two custom shop ESP's with MOP, but I'm not sure
most of them are clearly perloid plastic
he had the same pickup configuration in them and they sounded virtually indistinguishable (EMG 60/81).
that says a lot :lol:
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examples:
this appears to be MOP
(http://www.espguitars.com/images/gallery/07/viper-ow.jpg)
this is definitely not MOP
(http://www.espguitars.com/images/gallery/07/eclipse-vb.jpg)
and they're both custom shops
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i couldnt say for sure that its not MOP on the black one
If it is pearl its clearly a lower grade than the white one but it still looks very pearl like to me. a bit dull, flat and milky rather than reflective, colourful and figured but still very much like pearl.
from the photo's it really could be either cheap pearl or good plastic!
I am just stating a project which has the aesthetics of that black guitar (satin black, with vintage tinte multiply), i love the vintage tinted binding and just wish they bothered to do something about the unpainted binding on the fretboard face. oh, mine will definately be getting pearl blocks ;)
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I'm quite sure the inlays are not plastic.
and I'm sure that is plastic
I'm VERY obsessed with that, and that's my biggest turnoff on ESP
Gibson is also using plastic for Standards and Studios for 20 years
apparently the new non-custom shop 2009 Customs have plastic too, but I never saw one like this
I think I've seen one or two custom shop ESP's with MOP, but I'm not sure
most of them are clearly perloid plastic
he had the same pickup configuration in them and they sounded virtually indistinguishable (EMG 60/81).
that says a lot :lol:
Wtf are you on about?
I own 2 ESPs and they are both without a shadow of a doubt MOP.
You'll also get locking tuners and a choice between rosewood and ebony fingerboards, with or without figured maple tops on the ESP.
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examples:
this appears to be MOP
(http://www.espguitars.com/images/gallery/07/viper-ow.jpg)
this is definitely not MOP
(http://www.espguitars.com/images/gallery/07/eclipse-vb.jpg)
and they're both custom shops
And I'm pretty sure they are both MOP. The top one seems to be abalone. The lower one is a white type.
Anyway, modern LesPauls from Gibson have weight relief holes. You can bitch about a lot of minor details, but that is an element yu cannot change or rectify afterwards.
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the top one isnt abalone, definately not. it is white pearl but it is clearly quite a figured set of white MOP, i bet it shimmers really nicely
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/theonlywarlock/Birmingham004.jpg)
Some more pictures (this thread lacks pictures of guitars).
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/theonlywarlock/IMGP0069.jpg)
Look at the detail of the binding.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/theonlywarlock/IMGP0065.jpg)
Proper brigde studs.
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http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3642/3365761727_3b71f8919a_o.jpg
http://www.sevenstring.pl/g2/d/10210-4/ESP_nowe_12.jpg
http://guitarsatbmusic.com.au/esp/guitars/espstd/eclipse/hires/eclipse-i_ctm_ft_bmf_silb/eclipse-i_ctm_ft_bmf_silb_3.jpg
these looks like pearloid plastic to me, just like the ones used in Gibson standards
as I said, some of the custom shops have MOP, most of them don't
I've seen more convincent imitations of MOP in way cheaper guitars
there are several pearloid patterns
some are almost white, others look like marble, others are very mirror-like, others look like glitter
for example, this is acrylic:
http://www.gbase.com/files/store_images/gear/2179586/p3_uvmhvoalg_so.jpg
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the second pic there does look more like plastic - the first one could be either, very hard to tell from photo's because real pearl varies a hell of a lot too
never seen a pearloid that could be mistaken for pearl in real life though, its the way it reflects light that you cant fake easily
tbh, i dont think it matters to much, although i always wonder why PRS use laminated shell (abalam) on very expensive guitars it certainly doesnt make them worse guitars
i dont think Les pauls are any worse for having pearloid, infact aged pearloid can look pretty special too
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I would think that Edwards is superior because it is like the Navigator models. Some people like the esp and I am not one of them. Thats just my opinion
I haven't tried navigator, but I don't think that can be true, navigator are like 5x the cost of edwardses, and ESP are more expensive than edwardses too. Edwardses are very nice guitars, with excellent bang for buck, but they're not boutique/custom shop quality.
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Why are you obsessing over something that even if you are right is irrelevant to the discussion as Gibson uses pearloid anyway?????
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Its up to you all I have played ESP eclipse guitars a whole lot in music stores and I never bought one. I always looked around for the older Gibson Les Pauls. Best one I ever played was a white les paul custom1990. From what I have read and heard here edwards is more the gibson vein am I correct? Also price is an issue its like comparing two different guitars. Gibson is way more expensive that an ESP eclipse unless of course you are going for their custom shop like calling and having them put it together at your request. I also hate their pickup choices.
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Well the ESP is not a Gibson and the Gibson is not an ESP. There's a reason for that, namely that the companies have different target groups for starters. Gibson is much more aimed at an older, more vintage rock/blues based clientel. People who obsess about traditions. Just look at the pickups, Gibsons have gotten constantly more traditional PAF-like, while ESP loves the EMGs and the SD JB/59 combo.
The current Gibsons LesPauls are very nice IMO and well worth the money, the Gibson standard does sound quite "old" and vintagey IMO.
Of course what I am aiming at (probably towards the end of the year) is to add a Gibson LesPaul to my collection. The ESP however, IMO, is hands down the better guitar for me to use live because of the tuners, the EMGs (no risk of being electrocuted anymore), the volute which protects the neck/headstock joint from possible damage and - not to be forgotten - the WEIGHT.
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We have F.Sardis's ESP in the shop at present and I have to confess it is one of the nicest LP type guitars I have ever played
His definitely has real MOP in it
Gibson ALWAYS had plastic on their LP standards and MOP in the LP Customs
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We have F.Sardis's ESP in the shop at present and I have to confess it is one of the nicest LP type guitars I have ever played
pics or it's a bugera! :D :D :D
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I'd chose the ESP over the Gibson anyday.
The Eclipse is basically the Les Paul except with all the annoying flaws rectified, e.g. upper fret access, weight etc.
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Remember to check out the ESP Eclipse FT models. FT = Full Thickness. Closer to the Gibson tone..
-Zaned