Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: gwEm on September 12, 2009, 11:35:59 AM
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i was watching 'the fast and the furious' series recently. when i was a teenager with my first car, i was all into the idea of tuning and so on, but it wasn't realistic due to the insurance costs. and having lived in town for years, i rarely drive (just once every few years i hire a car for holiday or whatever) and hardly care about a fancy car anymore - though i would like a bike.
looking round on the net theres communities for modifying cars, computers, motorbikes, push bikes, guitars and many other things. its not always the case, but the majority of modifiers are guys - i suppose its our geekish side ;)
anyway, i was sort of thinking why we do these things. looking at the car world, some people are into modding for the look, performance, even fuel economy.
and some of us want a old vintage sound, a shred-tastic 80s metal machine, or a modern djent tone or whatever. and many of us make mods for the look.. or even build guitars from parts, or taking it even further - bits of tree ;)
i was thinking why we mod..
because we want something personal and unique
we want something thats not provided by a mainstream manufacturer
we like messing round with routers and soldering irons
like our instrument but want more of it - better sound and playability
we want the satisfaction of something we built or modded being better value than some retail guitar
want to recreate another instrument - a star guitar or old vintage
experimentation - how would a strat be with p90s or whatever (i'd like to try a V with filterons)
when i buy a guitar i almost always have mods in mind before i lay my money on the table
the only guitar i haven't carried out more extensive mods (like pickups) to is my '84 V (this just has strap locks) though it has scratchy pots, and i will probably change those and put a sprague in at the same time - just because its easy to do so.
what do people think about all this? i mentioned some things in this post - but they are 'excuses' really and i know it ;) WHY do we mod?
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i was happy with the sound of my first Epiphone V, never thought of doing mods on the sound. i fitted string saver saddles though, because i was always snapping strings
then i got a Steinberger GP, and immediately hated the sound of EMG Selects in it. I fitted Dimarzio Super Distortions to it, and never looked back - that was my first mod. The Dimarzios were pretty good, really good in fact, but were never quite there, I was always messing round with the wiring options. had them in parallel for a while..
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It's a really good question, and I'm not sure there's a "simple" answer really, but if there is, for me it's that we're all creative beings at heart (all of us humans). Every single one of us "creates" in some way or other. If you give us a "thing" that can be "improved" or "personalised", that's what we'll do to it eventually - and when we do it, we're "making" something "better".
If you'd just talked guitars, I wouldn't have jumped to this "generic" conclusion/suggestion. It's when you brought in the cars etc... Not everyone feels the need to mod their guitars, or all of their guitars, but I'd be surprised if they weren't modifying something.
If we're talking guitars, the first mod I can remember doing (or having done for me, actually) was my JV strat the minute I got it - replaced the 3-way switch with a 5-way, and converted it to master tone. Both of those mods were to make it easier/better to use - I think that's what drives/motivates most mods? In that case it actually achieved the object, but it doesn't always work out that way :lol:. Although I didn't do it myself in that case, I made the decision and paid someone to do it, and I "made" my guitar better for me personally.
I've noticed several times that there's a sizable proportion of us who bemoan the fact that you can't seem to get the guitar you want "off the shelf" - the right neck profile with the wrong radius, for example. And so we start tinkering, getting replacement bits, etc. Once you've started tinkering, and creating your own thing, you're still likely to say "why can't I get one off-the-shelf?" but I'm not sure we'd be happy even if we could!! :lol:
Oh yeah, nearly forgot, boys v girls. I think it's just a matter of what aspect they focus on.
As far as I can make out, boys, in general, seem to like "tools" that do jobs (I mean the guitar or car or bike, etc, as well as the tools that you use to work on them), and that's what we get drawn to - we still like the jobs we're doing with the tools, but we seem to take pleasure in a good piece of kit at the same time as using it for the job.
Girls, on the other hand, again in general, although they appreciate a good tool for the job, once they've got it, seem to focus more on enjoying the job.
I'm gazing lovingly at a guitar at the moment, just cos it is a guitar, and it's mine, and I know what it does, how I set it up, and how to use it... and it's damn pretty :D, I'm also wondering if there's anything I could do to make it even better/prettier... but I'm not actually using it at the moment, I'm typing this... I think my missus, while she would do something like this sometimes, is far less likely to do it as much as I do. If she played, she'd be far more likely to use the guitar rather than just gaze at it and fiddle with it and type about it :lol:
Different example: we've both got quite nice fountain pens - I bought hers, her family bought mine. I do actually use mine a lot more than she does hers, but taking that aside, to me, my pen is a thing of beauty in its own right, to be lovingly serviced and cleaned, to be balanced in my hand, no-one else is allowed to write with it, etc, etc... to her, her pen looks nice, feels comfortable, and she uses it to write with as long as it works when she picks it up... to me it's a pen (sigh...), to her it's a pen.
We're not actually a lot different, we both value our pens, but if there was web forum on dicking about with pens, you'd be more likely to find me on it than you would her :lol:
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Because we can do it?
I agree with the sexes' difference too.
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I once read or heard somewhere the visual modding thing is about creating a reason for people to talk to you, similar in how people customise their work desk to give other people something to talk to them about
something to be said for people wanting a one of a kind car rather than something exactly the same as what a million other people in the world have
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i think males have a greater predisposition towards obsessive behaviour. not in the flicking a light switch/washing your hands OCD way, more in the specialist subject/hobby way.
i feel like mentioning the higher levels of autistic spectrum behaviours in males becaus ei think its connected to this issue. its about a 10 to 1 male to female ratio in the school aged Autistic spectrum disorder children. its also been suggested that male intelligence works in a very autistic way. whilst its worth noting tremendous varitaion in people with ASD's one of the key signs to look for is a fixation on certain subjects.
males get fixated on subjects, be it cars, pens or guitars. first you learn all about how it works, then you start looking into how to make it better.
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Let me attempt to explain our male attributes in terms even a woman could understand:
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I just like the engine of a car, I'd modify the engine but not look like an utter tw@t with bodykit and what not.
But if I did have a car the activity I'd do most would be probably washing it.
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But if I did have a car the activity I'd do most would be probably washing it.
Not quite...
The activity you do most is give Gordon Brown even more tax money :shock:
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For me, its because no stock guitar (or bike) has the right parts for me/my personal preference.
Couldnt give a shite about modding my car, its just something to get from A to B in! Would be nice to have it more efficient though.
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But if I did have a car the activity I'd do most would be probably washing it.
Not quite...
The activity you do most is give Gordon Brown even more tax money :shock:
Ah yeah, I was thinking happy thoughts but that is the ultimate thing.
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because we want something personal and unique
we want something thats not provided by a mainstream manufacturer
like our instrument but want more of it - better sound and playability
same with cars. though, i dont like modding for the looks.. i think it's ridiculously ugly. unless it's something more discrete.. like a stock body kit on a R34 Skyline Nür .. or, it really works with the style. but not the usual 'tuner kiddies' that just put ridiculous sideskirts, bonnets and spoilets on their lil saxo or clio.. ugh.. i like the internal tuning. engine remaping, turbo tuning etc etc.. the behind the scenes stuff, when at the lights you make a guy with a 911 think.. what the $%&# is wrong with my car today.. it's not going anywhere :D (and you're laughing your ass off in a tuned Megane R26)
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I think it's personalisation mostly.
And there's some satisfaction in improving something or creating something.
It's not that far off from the tuning, hot rodding, biking scene.
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When I buy a guitar, I know what mods I'll do to it before I hand the cash over.
Part of it is I'm at a point where the guitar must have certain features and I'm not willing to have my guitar choice made smaller because of that! If I buy a guitar with a gloss neck, you can guarantee I'll steel wool it when it gets home and have a treble bleed fitted for example. I'm extremely picky about who does the work and the quality though.
As my gear gets more expensive, modding it can be confirmation that I'm not turning into a w**ker that spends loads of money on gear and is afraid to really use it because I've put it on a pedestal. The downside ofc is you lose some resale money.
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I dunno if it's been mentioned already or not (I skimmed through the thread instead of reading every word) but I think alot of modding, be it cars or guitars etc is down to a 'can I make it better?' outlook.
I'll use myself as an example;
I've been driving for just under 3 years and until February of this year the only car I'd ever owned was an R Reg Vauxhall Astra hatchback with a 1.4L engine and about 70 (if that) BHP. Now, it was never the prettiest looking car and it took forever to get upto motorway speeds but it was VERY reliable and got me from A to B so aside from putting a CD player in it instead of the cr@ppy cassette radio it came with, it was enough for me as I knew it couldn't be made any better.
I replaced it in February this year as it'd come to a point where it would need a new exhaust to get through an MOT, which would cost more than the car was worth, with a 54 reg Ford Focus ST170 hatchback; 2L engine, 170 (manufacturer claimed atleast) BHP, so alot better performance wise than my Astra.
It's only 6 months or so since I got it and I've already started looking at ECU Remapping, Chip Tuning, Engine Upgrades etc to get more out of the car as I 'think' it has more to give. It's something I never would have even considered with my Astra as I know there was no point trying to polish a turd so to speak.
Not entirely sure my waffling on has made sense or not :lol:
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We mod because it is the way of mankind, since the dawn of time man and I'm sure woman has wanted to modify their surroundings, appearance etc. The need for this can be aesthetic, aspirational or functional.
Aethetic - My cave seems dull, I'll get Ug to paint it. My hair would look nice with a golden circlet. Aren't statues lifelike, maybe I'll get one of my wife. Perhaps I should relic the B tuning peg on this strat.
Aspirational - Hey Ug got one of them wheel things...I should get one of those. Helen has a golden circlet, I'll get one too. If I had a giant statue of me everyone would respect me more. Wow Gibson are making a Pearly gates replica, if I get one I'll be able to get my tone closer to Rev Willie G.
Functional - Hmm if I use a heavier club it'll be better for bonkin' rabbits wiv. A circlet would help me keep the hair out of my eyes. I guess I could use a large stone to keep the door open and let in some breeze. If I had an ebony fretboard it'd make this guitar sound slightly brighter.
Yes as time moves on, things change, some for better, some for worse but now more than ever mankind continues to change things for these three reasons.
Here endeth the lesson, go forth and ROCK!
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i mod things because it's something to do. it gives a good sense of accomplishment when you do something yourself rather than just buy it as is. certain mods make things 'pretty' or nice to look at.
also, there's the whole perfection factor. i think we're always constantly changing and fixing things in the constant strive for that unattainable perfection.
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Maybe, since women mod their appearance every morning, we occasionally have the desire to do so, but men up the competion with doing it to lots of different things, ie: their tools
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Everything IS changing...
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Everything IS changing...
yes,my brother...spiral out!
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Men have guitars, cars and bikes to mod. Women have men to mod.
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Men have guitars, cars and bikes to mod. Women have men to mod.
:lol:
We were all thinking it...
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Men have guitars, cars and bikes to mod. Women have men to mod.
:lol: - And tonight's top prize goes to .... 8)
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I dont drive, but if I had a car it would go one of two ways
- I'd regard it as a means to an end and maintainable consumable and not really give a $%&# about it beyond keeping it running OK
- I'd treat it like every other electrical and mechanical thing I ever have and correct things I dont like about it and find ways to make it better. In most cases to date, what amounts to household electronics, this largely involves replacements, but with a car, it would involve tools.
As a mechanically and technically minded person, and a fussy bar-steward, I dont really see how the latter could be avoided....except by not buying a car.
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^ haha, i do the first one. Then again, I only really mod guitars etc. as a last resort, if it doesn't sound how I want. some guitarists actually enjoy the modding process, for others (like me) it's just a means to an end. I'm not really mechanically-minded at all... I just want to play the darn thing. :lol:
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It's only 6 months or so since I got it and I've already started looking at ECU Remapping, Chip Tuning, Engine Upgrades etc to get more out of the car as I 'think' it has more to give. It's something I never would have even considered with my Astra as I know there was no point trying to polish a turd so to speak.
Not entirely sure my waffling on has made sense or not :lol:
you 'think' it has more to give? OF COURSE it has more to give.. but you'll struggle past 200 unless you invest something into it remapping and chipping it, won't give you a whole lot.. larger intercooler, intake, cylinder heads, injectors .. and in the end hehe.. turbo :D you need to squeeze more torque out of that thing.
my friends Megane Team F1 (not the R26) is up to 276BHP and 440nm of torque with just an engine remap (and bigger intercooler) so you should get up to 250 with some money invested (if you're willing that is)
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you 'think' it has more to give? OF COURSE it has more to give.. but you'll struggle past 200 unless you invest something into it remapping and chipping it, won't give you a whole lot.. larger intercooler, intake, cylinder heads, injectors .. and in the end hehe.. turbo :D you need to squeeze more torque out of that thing.
my friends Megane Team F1 (not the R26) is up to 276BHP and 440nm of torque with just an engine remap (and bigger intercooler) so you should get up to 250 with some money invested (if you're willing that is)
I know chipping/ECU Remapping won't do much, maybe about +15BHP and + nm torques max as it's naturally aspirated, but it's about all I can do extra without spending about £7k+ on a turbo conversion :lol:
When it gets to that stage, I'll just sell up and move on :D
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nah, adding a turbo wont be that much.. though 7k will get you some very very nice kit
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nah, adding a turbo wont be that much.. though 7k will get you some very very nice kit
People that have fitted turbos to same car as mine have paid between £7k and £8k, so I might as well put that to price I'd get for selling mine (prob £6k) and get something 'better' :)
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wth? what were the turbos made of??? they probably changed the exhaust, pistons, injectors... basically reworked the entire engine from the ground..
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wth? what were the turbos made of??? they probably changed the exhaust, pistons, injectors... basically reworked the entire engine from the ground..
To get the turbo to fit 1 of these cars you'd have to completely rebuild and mod the engine, probably why it costs so much.
You can do a Supercharger conversion for a bit less, but still in the thousands :lol:
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BLAH! yes.. d'oh they dont have turbos.. so the fitting costs an arm and a leg cos you have to rebuild the engine bay, along with the parts and all .. yeah
sux for you, that you didnt buy a turbo :P joke mate :D
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I agree it's a guy thing that we like to mod, I think it stems from an insecurity that we need the best, to impress the oppsite sex, at the end of the day we may be the most intelligent species on earth, but we a mammals according to science, which is a debatable subject in itself because we may actually be alien to anything else!
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BLAH! yes.. d'oh they dont have turbos.. so the fitting costs an arm and a leg cos you have to rebuild the engine bay, along with the parts and all .. yeah
sux for you, that you didnt buy a turbo :P joke mate :D
Yeah, my budget couldn't stretch to a Focus with a turbo (ST or a MK1 RS) so I got what I could afford at the time!
If you remember the shed I was driving when you and Ben were over here, this is a hell of a step up for the time being! lol :lol: