Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: mikeluke on November 02, 2009, 09:41:59 AM
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Guys
This might be one of those urban myths but I heard a rumour at the weekend that Gibson might be in financial trouble - story goes that there is a large shipment of (Chinese) Epiphones which are stuck in transit as the supplier has not been paid - represents most of the Christmas stock for Europe.
Anyone else heard anything about this?
Mike
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I seem to remember reading somewhere recently that the owners were looking for a buyer?
The whole Hendrix farce won't have helped their cause if they have a load of partially built guitars they now have to throw away....
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i stumbled upon the london PR office the other day, should have popped in and politely asked if they're 'up sh*t creak'.
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Yeah, they've lost their tiny little minds.
Holy explorers and Vs, zoot suit SGs, hendrix strats, the list goes on
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true... i was waiting for the les paul commemorative les paul to come out... wonder why one hasnt really.
then i thought to myself, what REALLY happened to les paul, and a quick scout on the internerd revealed this photograph! the honchos at gibson really HAVE lost their minds to create such an abomination...
oh Les!
(http://thepmi.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/davros.jpg)
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For the last few years Gibson have had the impression of a company that is struggling. Focussed way to much on niche guitars that are never going to be big sellers. Their business model needs a rethink if they are under the illusion Zoot Suits, Holy V's etc will keep them going.
They should do what Fender do and focus on making classic instruments that are great quality (some on here may say Fender aren't great quality).
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true... i was waiting for the les paul commemorative les paul to come out... wonder why one hasnt really.
It has...
(http://www.guitarvillage.co.uk/admin/pages/upload/Steve/lptribute.jpg)
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well...
now im almost ashamed that i use a gibson
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There are at least 6 things for each of that advert that make me feel sick.
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im tempted to fashion an email for them with a new business plan and tell them why its all going wrong.
i'll include pie charts and stuff as the chips that run the place may well need graphical aids.
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I really hope that they dont sell any.
Not even one.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, there are certainly 564 guitarists and collectors that are dumb enough and rich enough to buy it.
Seriously, 6 per year he lived? That decision invloved an executive meeting and graphs, or a stoned teenager (its often hard to tell the difference).
Every single les paul out there is a les paul tribute.
Pay tribute to the...gibson marketing department for having the greed to memorialise les pauls life and cotribution to music with such a meticulously calculated profit margin.
The Log is a piece of history. That is cash in.
Based on the...because we didnt want to pay to refit a production line to make an actual replica, our cost engineers indicate that LPs memory holds insufficient capital.
They should have just made it a robot LP with onboard looper. LP would at least probably have liked that.
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Whilst I don't disagree with the criticisms, I do like the look of that Goldtop.
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im tempted to fashion an email for them with a new business plan and tell them why its all going wrong.
i'll include pie charts and stuff as the chips that run the place may well need graphical aids.
I've got a new business plan for them
Put the crack pipe down
Step away from it very slowly
Get back to making the gibsons that people like gibson for, and try to do so with some estimation of competence.
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If Gibson comes up for sale, who should buy?
Fender, Rickenbacker, Peavey, Yamaha, ESP, Ibanez..........?????
I can say this: Fender is the best thing that ever happened to Gretsch.
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Gibson UK are hysterical, but are also completely hamstrung by their US daddies.
For what it's worth, the head of Gibson UK says there's no truth to opening post, dunno whether he'd tell if it there was, but I have known him a long time.
The whole running of Gibson in Britain has gotten beyond a joke. It's ludicrous that Gibson wont give lead times on orders at all. Gibson UK doesn't know what stock they're being sent until the boat actually arrives in the UK. Shops don't know what Gibson or Epiphone stock they're getting till it arrives at their door...
Rosetti were terrible, but Gibson UK have managed to be worse.
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Gibson UK doesn't know what stock they're being sent until the boat actually arrives in the UK. Shops don't know what Gibson or Epiphone stock they're getting till it arrives at their door...
For real? If that's the case that's the maddest thing I've ever heard. Imagine taking delivery of a new shipment of Holey Explorers, Zoot Suit SGs, Shark Fins and Tribal Vs. You'd have a heart attack.
(edited for inadvertent duplication)
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Gibson UK doesn't know what stock they're being sent until the boat actually arrives in the UK. Shops don't know what Gibson or Epiphone stock they're getting till it arrives at their door...
For real? If that's the case that's the maddest thing I've ever heard. Imagine taking delivery of a new shipment of Holey Explorers, Zoot Suit SGs, Holey Explorers and Tribal Vs. You'd have a heart attack.
+1
Sheesh! That's almost incredible.
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actually, i think i saw this happen in london.
the music shop on tottenham court road, i walked past and they had 3 different colour ways of zoot suit sg in the window. now i don't think they have them there any more, just overpriced les pauls. i can't imagine actually ordering that crud so at the time i assumed gibson probably forced them to take it.
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I can say this: Fender is the best thing that ever happened to Gretsch.
Going off-topic slightly, but they were a disaster for Jackson...
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Get back to making the gibsons that people like gibson for, and try to do so with some estimation of competence.
+1
If, say, a Les Paul Standard was properly made in the US with decent quality control, then it might, just might merit the >£1500 price tag. But every time Gibson ship a guitar whose fingerboard looks like it was sanded with a housebrick or whose frets were installed by stamping on them with hobnailed boots, they are not just offloading a piece of junk, they are damaging the entire brand because dozens, maybe hundreds of people are going to see that guitar in a shop somewhere, try it, hate it & tell their friends. The mug who eventually buys it unseen will probably come to realise that it needs work too & never buy another.
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Gibson UK are hysterical, but are also completely hamstrung by their US daddies.
For what it's worth, the head of Gibson UK says there's no truth to opening post, dunno whether he'd tell if it there was, but I have known him a long time.
The whole running of Gibson in Britain has gotten beyond a joke. It's ludicrous that Gibson wont give lead times on orders at all. Gibson UK doesn't know what stock they're being sent until the boat actually arrives in the UK. Shops don't know what Gibson or Epiphone stock they're getting till it arrives at their door...
Rosetti were terrible, but Gibson UK have managed to be worse.
I can't speak for the UK, but for Belgium, which is supposed to be under the same system, a shop does choose what's delivered to them. But, Gibson does seem to be putting effort in producing guitars noone wants and there are ridiculuous order times on standard stuff.
Jan
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Exploitation of artists who snuff it is nothing new, the music industry is rife with it. Christ on a stick, just look at all the Hendrix products that are out there.
Yes that gold top does look nice, I wonder if it will be unplayable like the original ones?
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Going back a few years one of my USA-based colleagues got a 'dream' job at Gibson - he was back with us within 6 weeks - apparently there was CCTV everywhere in the office and they tapped your phone calls...
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I think it would take a 6 year old to do better marketing for Gibson.
They have the Les Paul, the SG, the Explorer, the Flying V, artists such as Slash, Pete Townshend, Gary Moore, Billy Gibbons, Paul McCartney, Tony Iommi, and dare I say even goddamn Zakk Wylde, and being one of the OLDEST, and share respect for bringing us the whole era of electric guitars alongside Fender.
How the $%&# do they end up, punching holes through their guitars, using cr@p ass wood, and using less wood and bumping up the price, re-releasing guitars and bumping up the price beyond common sense and now trying to make money out of the original Les Paul himself.
There is 100% truth in the phrase: 'They can $%&# off and die'.
</angerrant>
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^ Totally truth
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I think it would take a 6 year old to do better marketing for Gibson.
They have the Les Paul, the SG, the Explorer, the Flying V, artists such as Slash, Pete Townshend, Gary Moore, Billy Gibbons, Paul McCartney, Tony Iommi, and dare I say even goddamn Zakk Wylde, and being one of the OLDEST, and share respect for bringing us the whole era of electric guitars alongside Fender.
How the $%&# do they end up, punching holes through their guitars, using cr@p ass wood, and using less wood and bumping up the price, re-releasing guitars and bumping up the price beyond common sense and now trying to make money out of the original Les Paul himself.
There is 100% truth in the phrase: 'They can $%&# off and die'.
</angerrant>
it does take a special kind of skill to $%&# up a position that strong.
Wait, not skill, whats that other thing? Oh yeah, retardation.
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Yes that gold top does look nice, I wonder if it will be unplayable like the original ones?
Shouldn't be, since the neck's angled so the strings can wrap over the trapeze bridge rather than under it. Of course there's plenty more for them to mess up.
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Some of the acoustic Gibsons me and Shobert saw whilst on a jolly in PMT a few weeks ago were really poorly finished.
I think it they are struggling financially, you will see one of the smaller brands 'realise its value' as the big wigs say and get sold off.
They seem to be going off in too many directions and their distribution model is odd to say the least.
Fender have great success with their Roadworn models and have a good rep with their cheaper models.
Most people I know have a mixed view on the cheaper gibbos and they don't seem to have an equivalent seller like the roadworn stuff
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Well, I was skulking around Vintage Kramer and there was a lot of talk about the relaunch of Kramer guitars with Steel Panther and other endorsers signed up + new models.
Then there is the 14 or so new Epiphones that are due for 2010...
If this ship goes down there will be alot of asian stock floating around.
Dibs on a Kramer reissue and Hendrix Strat for sh1ts and giggles! :? :lol: :lol:
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Some of the acoustic Gibsons me and Shobert saw whilst on a jolly in PMT a few weeks ago were really poorly finished.
I think it they are struggling financially, you will see one of the smaller brands 'realise its value' as the big wigs say and get sold off.
They seem to be going off in too many directions and their distribution model is odd to say the least.
Fender have great success with their Roadworn models and have a good rep with their cheaper models.
Most people I know have a mixed view on the cheaper gibbos and they don't seem to have an equivalent seller like the roadworn stuff
I always thought gibsons faded series was there equivalent pitch in the market as fenderrs roadworn series.
Got to aggree on the comment on the state of some of the fretboards. I have a faded SG it sound Ok but the fret board is a right mess.
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Gibson UK are hysterical, but are also completely hamstrung by their US daddies.
For what it's worth, the head of Gibson UK says there's no truth to opening post, dunno whether he'd tell if it there was, but I have known him a long time.
The whole running of Gibson in Britain has gotten beyond a joke. It's ludicrous that Gibson wont give lead times on orders at all. Gibson UK doesn't know what stock they're being sent until the boat actually arrives in the UK. Shops don't know what Gibson or Epiphone stock they're getting till it arrives at their door...
Rosetti were terrible, but Gibson UK have managed to be worse.
I can't speak for the UK, but for Belgium, which is supposed to be under the same system, a shop does choose what's delivered to them. But, Gibson does seem to be putting effort in producing guitars noone wants and there are ridiculuous order times on standard stuff.
Jan
To clarify, shops can order specific items, but Gibson wont give lead times. We had someone wait 14 months for a LP studio...
What the shops are doing, is paying Gibson X amount, and Gibson ship what they've got, when they've got it. Hence Gibson stockists all have very similar stock and tons of big sellers missing.
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I've got a new business plan for them
Put the crack pipe down
Step away from it very slowly
Get back to making the gibsons that people like gibson for, and try to do so with some estimation of competence.
wouldn't it just be easier to buy out tokai, or one of the other japanese makers? ;)
If, say, a Les Paul Standard was properly made in the US with decent quality control, then it might, just might merit the >£1500 price tag. But every time Gibson ship a guitar whose fingerboard looks like it was sanded with a housebrick or whose frets were installed by stamping on them with hobnailed boots, they are not just offloading a piece of junk, they are damaging the entire brand because dozens, maybe hundreds of people are going to see that guitar in a shop somewhere, try it, hate it & tell their friends. The mug who eventually buys it unseen will probably come to realise that it needs work too & never buy another.
exactly.
regarding the original point of the thread: i have no idea, i haven't heard anything. :? but obviously that doesn't mean it's not true.
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I wouldnt want them to buy out tokai: I'd prefer tokai maintain their relatively high quality level.
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
touche. :D
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I can say this: Fender is the best thing that ever happened to Gretsch.
Going off-topic slightly, but they were a disaster for Jackson...
Really? Since Fender took over there's been alot more promotion for Jackson and more models. Not particularly great for the old endorsees but they have put out some great stuff.
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I believe the jackson custom models have been constrained somewhat. Dont know the details.
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so i may have tried to send a blind email to gibson CEO. im that bored. hopefully he gets it and replies.
its a terrible situation. i was just reading something about all these rumors about Gibson struggling in the downturn untrue, and about how they really aim to sell $30,000 instruments to investment bankers. its all pretty terrible.
when people are turning to Tokai, Agile etc... and saying its better or comparable quality at a tiny fraction of the price, you have to wonder why they don't address it. maybe management is too stuck up. you can see the trend on denmark street, everyone is stocking masses of Tokai now.
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wouldn't it just be easier to buy out tokai, or one of the other japanese makers? ;)
They already have Epiphone Japan - they could increase production, rebrand them Gibson Japan or maybe resurrect the Orville brand.
As it stands, there's too big a gap between Gibson and (Korean) Epiphone, in terms of price and quality (perceived, if not actual!). Even though there are some really good Korean Epis, I think it's still mostly regarded as a "starter" brand.
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I believe the jackson custom models have been constrained somewhat. Dont know the details.
Yeah I know they put some limits, like no gibson shapes, no replica's of current or previous endorsees guitars. Does suck, but I'm never going to order a custom from them any way (too much money and WAY too long to wait for it to be done).
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I believe the jackson custom models have been constrained somewhat. Dont know the details.
Yeah I know they put some limits, like no gibson shapes, no replica's of current or previous endorsees guitars. Does suck, but I'm never going to order a custom from them any way (too much money and WAY too long to wait for it to be done).
Plus they're more than likely to $%&# up the spec. I've seen some horror stories over on the Jackson/Charvel forum (http://www.jcfonline.com).
However the good side is we can now have Charvels and Jacksons with Strat headstocks!
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They already have Epiphone Japan - they could increase production, rebrand them Gibson Japan or maybe resurrect the Orville brand.
As it stands, there's too big a gap between Gibson and (Korean) Epiphone, in terms of price and quality (perceived, if not actual!). Even though there are some really good Korean Epis, I think it's still mostly regarded as a "starter" brand.
yeah, i know, but you know what i mean. And most of those epi japan models are only available in japan, and the few which are available here are as expensive as gibsons (more or less).
i thought epi production had moved to china?
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i thought epi production had moved to china?
Yeah, you're probably right. I don't keep up!
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haha, neither do i, i just pick it up online. i think the last one i tried was chinese, iirc.
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Well I heard a rumour from someone who works at Peavey USA, that Peavey might be taking Gibson over :o
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I too have heard with fear the possability of a Peavey take over.
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Ive heard peavey are taking gibson over twice now!
From you two.
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i read a thing online from the CEO saying it was all lies about Peavey and the same rumours have been going round for 20 years or whatever with subtle differences.
lets start a rumour that they are going to get bought out by rhythm in jump dancing close to you
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lets start a rumour that they are going to get bought out by rhythm in jump dancing close to you
I think Devries Custom Guitars & Gibson would be a quality control match made in heaven!
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:lol:
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I can say this: Fender is the best thing that ever happened to Gretsch.
Going off-topic slightly, but they were a disaster for Jackson...
Really? Since Fender took over there's been alot more promotion for Jackson and more models. Not particularly great for the old endorsees but they have put out some great stuff.
OK, perhaps "disaster" is a little harsh, but they did change the priorities in the factory & stopped them offering some popular options for custom orders:
I believe the jackson custom models have been constrained somewhat. Dont know the details.
Yeah I know they put some limits, like no gibson shapes, no replica's of current or previous endorsees guitars. Does suck, but I'm never going to order a custom from them any way (too much money and WAY too long to wait for it to be done).
The emphasis in the US factory shifted from the custom models to the production models. Where they used to make the custom orders then as many models with standardized spec as capacity allowed, they began grinding out 150 "production" guitars a month then getting the to custom orders in dribs & drabs.
I bought a custom pre-fender which took 8 months end to end. I had one on order as Fender took over & waited 15 months for it. I did not order another.
Seeing as they already had my money (50% of the price of the guitar) for the custom, but had to sell the production models, I think that sucks. When someone comes along & hands you money, it pays to treat that customer well - they will probably come back for more. Besides, the custom shop is what made Jackson.
Also, Fender stopped them offering "Gibson" shapes - Flying V & Firebird, even though they had Jackson headstocks & were hardly Gibson clones. I happened to really like Jackson's Flying V shape.
Despite all this it's actually no easier to get a production model than it used to be. You still have to trawl around & if you can't find somone with the model you want with the colour you want in stock, then backorders take just as long as they ever did.
I just don't think the ability to get the Phil Collen model with a strat headstock (or the new Adrian Smith sig) was a price worth paying...
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I heard PRS was calling dealers asking them for orders to help them out this month ...perhaps they should not have opened and amp division and acoustic division during a recession ..my guess is PRS is in worse shape than Gibson or fender
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Gibson seem to have too many models imo and the spec of what you can have seems to change all the time. Lets abide by the KISS rule:
* a standard and junior version of each model, like back in the old days.
Do we really want anything more from Gibson than Les Pauls, SGs, Firebirds, Explorers, 335s and Flying Vees????
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Gibson seem to have too many models imo and the spec of what you can have seems to change all the time. Lets abide by the KISS rule:
* a standard and junior version of each model, like back in the old days.
Do we really want anything more from Gibson than Les Pauls, SGs, Firebirds, Explorers, 335s and Flying Vees????
Yeah,
I want someone on the design team to drink half a bottle of jack daniels and take a router to two of those and make a holy version.
maybe thats the problem. Gibson are too close to jack daniels HQ. Maybe Gibson have been paying for JD in guitars and now they're all hooked. It would explain a lot.
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Junior, Standard, and Custom models would suite better. Some people like the touch of the ebony board and extra binding, and I think its missing from some models?
And I am sure that there are LOADS of people out there who want to buy a Gibson hard disk drive, or fridge :P
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I heard PRS was calling dealers asking them for orders to help them out this month ...perhaps they should not have opened and amp division and acoustic division during a recession ..my guess is PRS is in worse shape than Gibson or fender
As a smaller company, I think PRS can cope with fluctuating markets better. Their product line is being completely re-vamped this year, for better or worse, so they're creating new demand with cunning new models - 25th Anniversary models, limited editions of good specs etc. There are still some howlers there though, but having Paul steer the company with his passion for guitars really helps.
Gibson seem to be producing guitars that nobody really wants (reverse V, holy explorer, zoot SG etc) and they have investors to please - if they fail, which they seem to be doing, the money guys will pull the plug...
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the reverse v turned out to be very popular, apparently.
its good to innovate with new models/versions, but they are having some silly ideas these days. in the 80s they did '90' versions of the V, SG and Explorer which turned out to be rather cool.
gibson's faded series likely inspired the fender roadworn to be fair
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I don't see the link between the Faded Gibsons (less buffing and finishing, throw them out the door cheap) and Roadworns (templates used for relicing). Fadeds were designed to be cheaper to produce and priced accordingly, Road Worns to be a more affordable relic option with an upcharge over a stock Mex model.
Chalk and cheese in my opinion.
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I don't see the link between the Faded Gibsons (less buffing and finishing, throw them out the door cheap) and Roadworns (templates used for relicing). Fadeds were designed to be cheaper to produce and priced accordingly, Road Worns to be a more affordable relic option with an upcharge over a stock Mex model.
Chalk and cheese in my opinion.
some of the faded series have a bit of relicing going on
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I don't see the link between the Faded Gibsons (less buffing and finishing, throw them out the door cheap) and Roadworns (templates used for relicing). Fadeds were designed to be cheaper to produce and priced accordingly, Road Worns to be a more affordable relic option with an upcharge over a stock Mex model.
Chalk and cheese in my opinion.
some of the faded series have a bit of relicing going on
presumably from the factory workers during set-up.
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I don't see the link between the Faded Gibsons (less buffing and finishing, throw them out the door cheap) and Roadworns (templates used for relicing). Fadeds were designed to be cheaper to produce and priced accordingly, Road Worns to be a more affordable relic option with an upcharge over a stock Mex model.
Chalk and cheese in my opinion.
some of the faded series have a bit of relicing going on
Some of the standards have a bit of relicing going on ;)
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I heard PRS was calling dealers asking them for orders to help them out this month ...perhaps they should not have opened and amp division and acoustic division during a recession ..my guess is PRS is in worse shape than Gibson or fender
As a smaller company, I think PRS can cope with fluctuating markets better. Their product line is being completely re-vamped this year, for better or worse, so they're creating new demand with cunning new models - 25th Anniversary models, limited editions of good specs etc. There are still some howlers there though, but having Paul steer the company with his passion for guitars really helps.
Gibson seem to be producing guitars that nobody really wants (reverse V, holy explorer, zoot SG etc) and they have investors to please - if they fail, which they seem to be doing, the money guys will pull the plug...
Well from what i see at local shops the PRS stuff does not move very often and gibsons do , thats a big difference so the shops can order more ..
if you already have 9 PRS you dont really need more for your wall , people might want PRS but not a lot are buying em.. pretty much only mira's
Gibson Has no investors its its owned by Henry J and Dave B .
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My misunderstanding re. investors at Gibson - apologies.
It depends on the shop re. sales. I know some places where PRS's fly out and Gibsons sit, and vice versa.
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I heard PRS was calling dealers asking them for orders to help them out this month ...perhaps they should not have opened and amp division and acoustic division during a recession ..my guess is PRS is in worse shape than Gibson or fender
As a smaller company, I think PRS can cope with fluctuating markets better. Their product line is being completely re-vamped this year, for better or worse, so they're creating new demand with cunning new models - 25th Anniversary models, limited editions of good specs etc. There are still some howlers there though, but having Paul steer the company with his passion for guitars really helps.
I think it's "interesting" that both Peter Wolf and Joe Knaggs have left PRS this year.
I know they're presenting a smiley-faces picture of how great it was working at PRS and now they're looking forward to exciting new opportunities (etc). But it's a strange time to be branching out on your own if everything's rosy at PRS.
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It depends on the shop re. sales. I know some places where PRS's fly out and Gibsons sit, and vice versa.
good point :)
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I think it's "interesting" that both Peter Wolf and Joe Knaggs have left PRS this year.
I know they're presenting a smiley-faces picture of how great it was working at PRS and now they're looking forward to exciting new opportunities (etc). But it's a strange time to be branching out on your own if everything's rosy at PRS.
Yep, I agree. There are SERIOUS changes going on with the product line and I can sort of see what they're doing, but it's not going down well in a lot of PRS camps.
Including mine....
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With reps like this its a wonder why anyone would want some of the new ones. Just another great reason to buy a custom guitar to your own spec.
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I wish a PRS would fly out and into my room :P
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I think it's "interesting" that both Peter Wolf and Joe Knaggs have left PRS this year.
I know they're presenting a smiley-faces picture of how great it was working at PRS and now they're looking forward to exciting new opportunities (etc). But it's a strange time to be branching out on your own if everything's rosy at PRS.
Yep, I agree. There are SERIOUS changes going on with the product line and I can sort of see what they're doing, but it's not going down well in a lot of PRS camps.
Including mine....
Is it possible that PRS are being really canny and getting themselves into the position that Gibson ought to be, i.e. introducing a range of affordable high quality guitars that have a desirable brand? They will be well aware of the state of affairs at Gibson and see an opportunity to be equal in the market to Fender and Gibson. It's going to turn off a lot of PRS purists, but if you're a businessman into expansion you have to strike while your competitors are weak.
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I believe it's more to do with them not competing with their own used models on eBay etc. Create something new so you're only competing with yourself..............
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I think PRS could fall into the Gibson trap of pissing off existing customers by trying to appeal to new ones.
Overhauling the product range every few months and issuing loads of limited-edition models isn't refreshing, it's just annoying.
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i agree. not just in guitars, it always pisses me off to see that companies are more concerned with getting new customers than with retaining old ones. I guess they don't teach that you can lose customers at business school, because that would be pessimistic and not showing the required can-do attitude and [insert various buzzwords, jargon etc.]...
:(
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is it about retaining customers though? well i guess.... what im trying to say is, how many average people have half a dozen gibsons, or prs' or whatever at £3K each? chances are most people will buy one high end guitar and maybe have a couple that are more reasonably priced. if by keeping customers you mean keeping people who already own top of the line guitars buying the same brand then thats one thing, and getting new customers to buy that one awesome guitar they can afford is another. if making low cost instruments is a way to do that then i guess people are going to do it. how many people here had squires before they had fenders? how many had epiphone before gibson?
i think this is gibsons problem. sponsoring polo matches to get big money earners into collecting all the cr@ppy wacked out guitars they spew out. not really caring about the vast majority of consumers who want a qaulity instrment at a competitive price
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Thing is, do a run of mega high end instruments for outrageous prices and EVERY SINGLE ONE of them sells. It's an obvious way to get a several hundred grand in the bank in five minutes.
And bringing back the old customers isn't really much of a concern of the likes of Gibson, realistically. We can't keep a Gibson guitar on the wall for more than a couple weeks, the DO fly off the walls, especially now there's so few dealers and those dealers are struggling to get stock from Gibson, but most of the people buying them will never buy another guitar, because the vast majority of people who buy those guitars are hobbyists who've just always fancied the guitar they associate with whoever inspired them to play in the first place, they've wanted that all their life and now they've got it, they're done.
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nfe and dmoney:
well, i see your points, and i agree it probably makes "business" sense, but it's a pretty lousy philosophy, and i reserve the right to say I don't like it, and refuse to buy their stuff if they do it. :lol:
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Oh I completely agree. It's rubbish. But it's business.
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:)