Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: _tom_ on November 13, 2005, 08:42:32 PM
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I've decided 6th form isnt for me, IT and business studies suck and I'm not even interested in them really. I went to a local college today and I am really interested in the Music Practise BTEC (except you have to do some singing lessons :cry: )
Anyway, the bloke I spoke to said that its best to take a CD with some recordings on to the interview. I'm gonna do covers as part of the course is performing covers in a band, I just dont know which songs to cover! Nothing too "look at me I can play fast" Steve Vai type stuff, I bet they hear that all the time. I just want something that sounds good and takes a bit of skill but not too show-offy. Whatcha think?
Cheers!
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good luck with it all tom :)
These are what I would look at if i had my own covers band :P
1) Metallica - Whiplash
2) Helloween - Ride The Sky (id fight for it :P)
3) Saxon - Princess Of The Night
4) Iron Maiden - Phanton Of The Opera
5) Ozzy - Crazy Train
6) Motorhead - Ace Of Spades
7) Diamond Head - Am i Evil?
8) Pantera - Cowboys From Hell
9) Accept - Fast as a Shark
Id stick 'My Sharona' by The Knack in as a cheesy encore aswell :P
Imo for a course, anything 'classic' or slightly mainstream would be good, as long as it has some good guitar melodies\hooks.. think of some classic tunes and perhaps go off the mainstream route a bit (eg dont play enter sandman or Hey joe!)
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Hmm thoose have solo's I'd probably mess up :lol: I was thinkin Miracle Man as I can sometimes make the solo sound OK. I still need some more, should I do More than a Feeling, or is that too cheesy :P Hi-Ho Silver Lining?
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Just play something that means a lot to you. If they whinge at you, just remind them that any form of music is valid expression, 2 notes or 200 notes. If it means something emotionally, then it is right.
If they dont agree with you on that, then they are quite obviously robots and is that really a course you would want to do?
I have mixed feelings about these courses. I was working in a college over the summer and enrolling people on these courses, I just don't know what it means to say you have done this course? What does it achieve? I don't mean to piss all over your parade, Tom, sorry if I have; I'm just interested to know how other people - people who think differently about it to me :wink: - think?
And, if it helps, I heard some kid's entry piece that he submitted and got accepted into the legendary Berklee college with. It wasn't that good; not to knock the kid but I was expecting Vai style theatrics and it wasn't even technically demanding. So whatever you do, HAVE FUN!
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Do a wide variety of stuff, from say pop to indie to metal maybe. It'll show them you can turn your hand to anything and be a good addition to the course.
I think... :?
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They probably do get a lot of flash playing, but most of it won't sound any good!
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parisienne walkways? that'd be a good one, well known, not too hard, good guitar playing...
good luck, anyway!
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Yeah - all they need to know is that you can play in time, in tune (watch the bends) and have a decent level of technique. I've had some pretty average pupils get into Leeds College of Music on the BTEC - don't get too worked up, be proffessional about it and you'll be fine :wink:
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I was in your position about a year ago. In the end I did a simple, maybe 30 second long fingerpicked jazzy comp style thing, no fast playing whatsoever. I didn't use a pick at all through the whole 80 minutes, even for lead stuff, cos I knew nobody else would have done that. The guy auditioning me said he'd had one guy after another come in and shred badly. :roll:
HJM's totally right - I mean the school can teach you how to twiddle, but they can't neccessarily teach you how to play in time or nail any of the other 'basics'.
So whatever you do, just play something that's different - cos its much easier to stand out from the crowd this way than to stand out purely through technical ability.
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how about 'Cause We've Ended As Lovers' by Jeff Beck?
Its an incredible piece of guitar playing, quite demanding but I think it shows real composure to play that piece. You need perfect timing and intonation and all these other underrated skills to play it. Its not a flashy piece particularly, but other guitarists will definitely appreciate it - Jeff Beck really is the guitarists' guitarist!
I can supply you with the full tab/score if you want...
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Yeah I thought most people would just do loads of stupid boring shred/metal things so I didnt want to bother with wasting my time. I think I'll just do some Led Zep and stuff then seeing as thats what I like to play the most. Willo I'll have a listen to that song, and as for what I want to get out of the course, just better at playing I guess, more confidence, and stuff. Plus the 3 a-levels you get from it :lol:
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Tom, you are going to hate me for saying this but Btec is not the right way to go if you want to get into music. I did a BTec and I did very well, I passed with a distinction but they are worth nothing and I am now at a point in my life where I regret it deeply and really need to get a decent qualification. There are lot's of music studies available, choose something with genuine prospects whilst you have the chance and as for your hair, just don't touch it at all, the odd wash here and there and you will have long rock god hair before you know it.
:lol:
P.S I know that I sound like a condasending old fart ( I am only 26) but it is all so fresh in my mind.
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Oh right. Well I was actually having second thoughts any way, before I read this. As I dont think I am good enough a player, and I just dont have the confidence to sing infront of ANYONE, not even good friends or family, which means I will do badly on the course I guess. This thread has been helpful nonetheless, I guess I will have to plod on with IT and business :lol:
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:D I`ve been wanting to reply to this thred but i`ve held off from doing so as i`ve not wanted to offend anyone. But to be quite honest all of these courses are uterly worthless in the real world. These courses should be treated by the pupils as personnal development not as enhancing job prospects. These courses are as worthless in the real word as Media studies !!! As much as i hate to say it & i do Stick with the IT & Business studies. At least if you don`t make it in becoming a rock god you`ll have some marketable skills in the real world.
:D 8)
Sorry for the reply being such a bummer !! :P
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I'm sure your playing is more than good enough, it's the course that's not good enough. :shock:
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These courses are as worthless in the real word as Media studies
They are totally worthless unless you are determined to make a living out of music in one way or another.
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I wasn't going to say anything on the value of these courses, but hey...
10 years ago there weren't many courses about, 15 years ago there weren't any...in the mean time hundreds of ex-players, engineers and producers have turned to teaching music and music technology, fuelled by the fact that a lot of young people want to make music, and parents are happy for them to pursue their interests.
The problem is there's very little work out there, and what work there is tends to be low paid. The last 15 years have seen a shift from live musicians to synths, from large scale to small scale studios. The technology has changed – the tape op, the old first job after tea boy, isn’t needed in a digital age. The work has changed too - gone are the record companies who would develop a band and pay for studio time, gone are a lot of the bands who want a demo as most people have a PC that is capable at home. (most of the studios I've worked in recently have been getting more work from companies like Alpine doing the voiceovers for sat nav systems...not music!).
So the education system is churning out musicians and engineers who have nowhere to go. I was lucky and fell into education after a stint as a touring sound engineer, but my BA in Popular Music Studies is only worth anything because it has the University of Leeds on the top. Still, and like many graduates of all disciplines, I would have to seek further training to find a different career.
The old school History/English/science degrees have the best success, as they open up many career paths, but do you want to study them?? The problem with media studies in particular is, if you want to work in media a degree in History of English is a much better option! Music tech, if you’re willing to work for probably nothing (although I do know one guy from the year above myself who earned £80k on his last contract…) or go into teaching, then pop music studies/tech is fine. Plain vanilla music degrees are a good option, as long as they come from a good university they are valued in the real world to get onto graduate training programmes.
I’d be very careful of selecting BTEC, a lot of Russell Group universities won’t even entertain you if you have a BTEC, despite the fact they are supposed to be worth the same as A-Levels. Try an A-level in Music Technology instead.
Rant mode off….
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Hmm ok it seems like a total waste of time then really. When I was at music live, I got a little prospectus thing from Coventry and also Staffordshire Uni's for Music Technology BSc (Hons) which sounds like a good course but will that even be useful? I still dont even know what kinda career I want so its hard to choose courses :lol:
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If you're not sure think about the more traditional subjects, that will leave your options open!
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hmm yeah, only trouble is they are so boring :lol: Would music tech at Coventry be worth considering then? I dont have any music qualifications atall such as grades, gcse, a level etc. so I dont think I could do just a plain music course :cry:
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hmm yeah, only trouble is they are so boring :lol: Would music tech at Coventry be worth considering then? I dont have any music qualifications atall such as grades, gcse, a level etc. so I dont think I could do just a plain music course :cry:
You could, but you'd have to work your butt off. I did all the official music grades in a few months in order to get work once. You can buy a few books of "official" graded theory and see how you fare. Also, you might be able to go to a local university and check out what the subjects for first year students would be, then head to the university bookshop and take a look at the books you'd have to buy. If they look way over your head, at least you'd know what you're in for.
Research, man. 8)
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aaah, bollocks!
time to think of a new career path!
so is there really no point in doing these courses, even if you intend to take them seriously? i know many people go for them because they like playing guitar, and they also like skiving off the tutorials to go and smoke weed in the park...
what about BIMM? any use? degree in music technology? no?
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aaah, bollocks!
time to think of a new career path!
so is there really no point in doing these courses, even if you intend to take them seriously? i know many people go for them because they like playing guitar, and they also like skiving off the tutorials to go and smoke weed in the park...
what about BIMM? any use? degree in music technology? no?
Oh yeah, I was also looking at those "proper" music colleges/unis like BIMM, ACM etc.
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All of these careers are based on talent and ability, not grades and qualifications. If you want to be a producer or sound engineer then get used to what you will be dealing with, most studios nowadays will be using computer based tech , so get some experience under you belt of that kind of thing and then maybe if you land the role of T boy in a half decent studio you can work your way up. MOST IMPORTANT.. Choose what you want to do first and then look at how you get there.
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Hmm yeah thats a good point, I still have no idea what I even wanna do with my life :? I mean, all I wanna do on my school days is stay home playing guitar and listening to music :lol: Thats only for my own pleasure though I guess, I'd be a useless teacher. Why cant I get payed for sitting around playing guitar on school days!? :lol:
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I think the best idea for most people who dont know what they want to do with their lives is to take a year out ( im talking about people at college : ) In the year out try and get some work experience in as many different jobs as you can. This will give you some idea of what you want to do.
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yes, but you can't just walk in and get experience on the kind of jobs you'd want to consider as your life's work...
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no you cant just walk in. but you can make the chances of something happening higher by preparing.
Im working at Sony/Bmg Records right now. Never did i think i would get a job like this. Im doing things which i never imagined i would be doing like being commisioned to build a studio.
Just go for it and make sure your behind it.
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no you cant just walk in. but you can make the chances of something happening higher by preparing.
Im working at Sony/Bmg Records right now. Never did i think i would get a job like this. Im doing things which i never imagined i would be doing like being commisioned to build a studio.
Just go for it and make sure your behind it.
Oooh how did you get that kinda job?! Sounds like fun!
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i nearly did one of the ACM courses, but it was gonna be too much money (i live milllllllllllles away from the actual academy..)
i always fancied being an IT tech, but once id done half my A levels (computing\media\business studies) i hated it.. after college i did nothing for a bit, just aimlessly floundering around from a dead end factory job to a shop job to just sitting at home doing NOTHING :/
So i went self employed like my dad, but it didnt work out so i had to give it up... now i work in a call center for shite money, its hard to progress to earn MORE money, and internal politics make it hard to move between posts in the company :(
So now i'm 23,tried every job i can think of,i'm bored shiteless and still with no idea what i want to do with my life.... and everywhere i look theres nothing but more shitety jobs for peanuts, or ones that need loads of qualifications to get!
I figure i should try Uni, but i can never focus myself onto learning stuff, i may just go for the experience and to meet new friends :/
Incidentally, i work with someone who has a degree in criminal physcology, and someone with a maths + mechatronic engineering degree, and they cant find jobs either (one has to do a couple of years in the police force or spend a few thousand on another course before they can get anywhere...)
REALLY rambling here sorry, but choosing what you wanna do in life is one of the hardest things, and plus you never know if you can do it\will like it until you get there...
id say just go ahead and do what will make you happy while your young and you can... before you get stuck in the rat race :)
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I figure i should try Uni, but i can never focus myself onto learning stuff, i may just go for the experience and to meet new friends :/
yep I'm exactly the same. I just dont want a cr@ppy boring job :(
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I also dont want to sound like Grandad, but you'd be better off with a straight pratical degree like IT or Business and Finance and then do the extra course afterwards. That way you get to go to university, join university bands, get the best opportunity to play live you will ever get (i.e. University student unions) and a 'proper' degree which will be respected in the business. The 'practical' courses like BTEC are just icing on the cake compared to that.
Well thats my 2p's worth of thoughts.
By the way lawyers do play guitar, if badly :D
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hmm yeah good idea I guess. That kinda stuff is just so boring to me though :(
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Boring now maybe, but not nearly as boring as the factory job you might end up with if you don't take these options whilst they are available. :(
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That way you get to go to university, join university bands, get the best opportunity to play live you will ever get (i.e. University student unions)
i can't help but disagree with you there, i played as a stand-in memner a while ago with a band who are in university, (doing law etc) who have been playing the odd gig for about 3 years already, and they laughed off the prospect of a gig in the student's union.
but let's keep this thread in focus, some kids' futures are at stake!
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Boring now maybe, but not nearly as boring as the factory job you might end up with if you don't take these options whilst they are available. :(
Yeah thats true I guess. I just have to decide which I find more interesting I guess, IT or business :? They are both cr@p :lol:
I wish I chose physics, so I could do this Sports Engineering course thing at uni, according to my brother I'd like it coz its all to do with bikes and stuff so it sounds pretty good.. shoulda thought things out better :roll:
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How old are you Tom? You sound quite young to me, not in any sort of bad way just use it to your advantage, drop IT and business studies, you sound young enough to start affresh, this goes back to what I said about working out what you want to do first, take a bit of time out for you, go wild and get your life back into focus and when you reach that point you will know what you want to do and start making positive steps into making it a reality! :D
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I'm 17 a week on sunday. I just dunno what to do atall hah I just dislike anything thats good for me! I probably woulda hated physics aswell I guess.
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So now i'm 23,tried every job i can think of,i'm bored shiteless and still with no idea what i want to do with my life.... and everywhere i look theres nothing but more shitety jobs for peanuts, or ones that need loads of qualifications to get!
i`m in my 40`s [ yep i`m an old fart !! :P ] You might be only 23 but let me tell `ya right now If you don`t get descent well respected qualifications then your chances of not spending the rest of your life Poverty struck & destitute are very remote espiecially in this day & age [ Why do you think so many of us don`t vote ? ] i speak from experience yes there are some people who get lucky & find there niche & yes they will argue that they didn`t get lucky they worked hard in most cases it`s a situation that they where in the right place at the right time.
Unfortunatley in my life i`ve had a tendancy to end up in the wrong place at the wrong time !! :roll:
As Chrisola has said Poverty wage is now the norm in this country Even here in London it`s become the norm, if you don`t want to be poor for the rest of your life or taking a HUGE chance on getting lucky, then get some usefull qualifications :D
Sorry for another Rant !!!
:D 8)
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Hmm yeah thats a good point, I still have no idea what I even wanna do with my life :? I mean, all I wanna do on my school days is stay home playing guitar and listening to music :lol: Thats only for my own pleasure though I guess, I'd be a useless teacher. Why cant I get payed for sitting around playing guitar on school days!? :lol:
yeah, i wish i could get paid for that too...
as someone else said, you're only 17, you're young enough to start over
i've done a degree in chemistry, i've been doing a phd for 2 years, and i've switched to an mphil because i just plain hate it, and i'm seriously considering just jacking the whole thing in because i hate it, it's just not me at all, and i don't want to get a job in anything to do with chemistry, and don't know what to do. Consider yourself lucky... i'm 24 and have no clue what career i want :cry:
EDIT: i am in no way saying you shouldn't go to university, at least i have my degree to fall back on, so shoul dbe able to get a job in the civil service or something like that if there's nothing better available
i second what the other guys said about getting a degree in a widish subject, that dosesn't necessarily lead straight to a job, but sounds good because you have a degree. Something like physics, history, that kind of thing (i.e. dont' go for one in dentistry, since if you dont' want to be a dentist after you've done it, you're kind of screwed)
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I did Business Studies at A-Level as I wasn't sure what I wanted to do after school and thought the subject would leave my options pretty open, which it has done. It's interesting and the stuff you learn is very useable. Just as long as you don't assume you know everything about business after it :)
As for IT, there are plenty of independant qualifications floating around which you could do while you're on the business course.
what about BIMM
I'm at BIMM now, and I'd definately recommend the course. They've really covered all the bases much better than I thought they'd be able to. Plus I think they're pretty realistic - for example, they're putting equally as much emphasis on very accurate simple rhythm playing as on lead playing, as I suppose the former is what gets you sessions. Unless a machine gets them first :roll:
I do think the scope for well paid session work must be very limited these days, but there are a million and one bands starting up who might not have access to the best studio gear - the stuff that I suppose is putting session players out of work - and are therefore willing to pay (badly) some guy to do it the old fashioned way.
And there might be more competition from other new bands nowadays, but the opportunities for getting your band heard and signed are, so I'm told, greater than ever if you know how to do it.........
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Just make sure what you choose to do is worth the £££££££££££££ it wil cost you to get through the degree - you'd earn more training as a plumber.....or a joiner (the last joiner I had did a loft conversion - and he turned up for his last cheque in a TVR....)
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Just make sure what you choose to do is worth the £££££££££££££ it wil cost you to get through the degree - you'd earn more training as a plumber.....or a joiner (the last joiner I had did a loft conversion - and he turned up for his last cheque in a TVR....)
Yeah I was thinkin of getting an apprenticeship of all things, in carpentry or something, as I like actually making stuff more than office based work, but I hear its too late now as college has started ages ago. I can still try next year though but business wasnt actually that bad today :lol: I'll see how it goes I guess, at any rate it looks like music is out of the question really.
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Carpentry is not a bad option - just be prepared for some hard physical work! I spent 12 years as a carpenter/ semi pro musician and the two jobs worked quite well together. Now that I'm a bit old to play in a serious band I'm thinking of putting my carpentry skills to good use and enrolling in a part time guitar building course at Merton College.
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Ah right. I think even though it may be hard work, people always want joinery and stuff, so it seems a good option really. I'll still get my A levels first though (or at least try)
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I am going to do either joinery or domestic electrics( I will be doing both at some point), They pay well and will benefit me in my private life.
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I am going to do either joinery or domestic electrics( I will be doing both at some point), They pay well and will benefit me in my private life.
Sounds good. I'll have to see whats available after A-levels :lol:
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I'm at BIMM now, and I'd definately recommend the course. They've really covered all the bases much better than I thought they'd be able to. Plus I think they're pretty realistic - for example, they're putting equally as much emphasis on very accurate simple rhythm playing as on lead playing, as I suppose the former is what gets you sessions.
where do you see yourself going after BIMM? what course are you doing?
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hes going career, BKP, Encore guitars and Squire 50 amp endorsements, MTV reality tv show, then drugs and booze will cripple him, and he'll end up on a Z list celebrity show co hosting it with his lover Anna 'who ate my pies??!' Nicole Smith 8)
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Thanks chrisola
Well a record deal is the ultimate, then session work (if there is any), which is what I had in mind originally. I'm doing the Diploma course this year, and probably starting the degree after that depending on how the (very) new band goes.
I know its a huge risk to spend four years doing this stuff. Maybe 95% of the guys on the Diploma course at least will be working in Tesco after BIMM, and all I can say is I'm determined not to be one of those guys.
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totally. i mean, there are a lot of guys doing music at my local tech who just skive off the classes to go and smoke weed - i doubt they will go far with their musical careers....
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Nice bit of spam :lol:
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Nice bit of spam :lol:
So who are they targetting the big frilly dress sales at? shob I reckon! ;)
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bloody hell - bet thats a blast from the past for you