Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: big steve on November 14, 2005, 09:37:33 AM

Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: big steve on November 14, 2005, 09:37:33 AM
ok, i'm now on the hunt for a japanese LP replica (very high quality, many have long tenon neck joints etc). one that I'm interested in has "orville kluson style tuners". will i be able to replace these for grovers?
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: Skybone on November 14, 2005, 10:04:26 AM
Doubt it, as Orville is basically Gibson, Japan. They also make the Epiphone Elite's (I think, as they're MIJ as well, and Epi being owned by Gibson etc)...

Most MIJ LP "replica's" are pretty spot on. I have 2 MIJ Tokai Love Rock's, which are both loaded with BKP's o' course! ;) They are both solid, well built guitars, and other than the usual unwound 3rd problem, I don't have any tuning problems (main guitar is down half a step, the other is drop tuned half (C# 6th) with 9-46's). Hardware on Tokai's is made by Gotoh, unsure of the origin of Orville hardware, though I'd guess at Gotoh as well (being another Japanese manufacturer).

IMO, Grover's suck, they're heavy and you can't "feel" the string as you wind it. The Kluson-a-like's give you that feel.

Hope that helps...
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: big steve on November 14, 2005, 10:10:41 AM
ok, thanks much for that! i think i'll go for this.
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: big steve on November 14, 2005, 06:17:10 PM
i hope it's good! i just ordered it off ebay :P i'll keep y'all updated...
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: Skybone on November 14, 2005, 07:07:16 PM
If it's anything like my Tokai's, I'm sure you won't be disappointed. ;)

I've not tried any of the Epi Elite's, but they're supposed to be pretty darn good as well, and all the guys that post on the Tokai Forum (http://www.tokaiforum.com) that have any experience with any of the other MIJ replica's (Orville/Greco/Edwards/etc) really rate them as well.

At least actually IS a Gibson...but with good quality control. ;)
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: big steve on November 14, 2005, 09:43:31 PM
yeah! good call

and it cost £500 instead of £1500
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: indysmith on November 14, 2005, 10:20:39 PM
Congrats steve! i really want one! :x
Be sure to tell me how it sounds/feels compared to a gibbo
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: big steve on November 14, 2005, 11:52:54 PM
well, i have a modification in might that i am confident will improve the sound...  8)
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: willo on November 15, 2005, 01:43:17 AM
where you getting this from, steve?
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: Skybone on November 15, 2005, 08:04:47 AM
Modifications sound-wise? Surely not! ;)

I've got a set of Black Dog's in my main Love Rock, and a set of Emerald's in my "new" one, and both guitars sound absolutely fantastic. Depends on what sort of sound/style you have in mind for it of course, but I can really recommend these.
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: math2014 on November 15, 2005, 12:59:16 PM
As skybone said, Orville, Edwards, Tokai all MIJ (some share factories cant remember which), are spot on instruments (i got a Tokai MIJ LP).

Only problem is.... i cant decide between Mules and BlackDogs  :shock:
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: Skybone on November 15, 2005, 04:54:41 PM
LOL!

I think that:

Orville is made by Gibson Japan, where (World Market) Epiphone Elites are built.

Greco, and Edwards are made by Fernandes.

Tokai and Burny are made by Tokai Gakki.

Not 100% sure though, as the whole MIJ thing is a bit of a grey area.
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: dave_mc on November 15, 2005, 04:59:05 PM
i always heard edwards were esp-made, but that's only hearsay...
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: math2014 on November 15, 2005, 05:20:22 PM
Quote from: dave_mc
i always heard edwards were esp-made, but that's only hearsay...


www.espguitars.co.jp , its in there ;)
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: dave_mc on November 15, 2005, 05:22:19 PM
^yeah, thought so!  :lol:
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: Johnny Mac on November 15, 2005, 05:41:25 PM
Look at this baby! http://www.espguitars.co.jp/navigator/index.html

Some Warpigs in this would be cool!

Is 399 yen £1,930???
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: big steve on November 15, 2005, 05:46:32 PM
willo, i got the guitar from ebay. a bit of a risk? well... yeah

AFAIK, all the well known 80s/90s MIJ guitars (greco, tokai, orville, others) were made in th Fuji Gakken factory.
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: indysmith on November 15, 2005, 05:53:13 PM
Quote from: Johnny Mac
Is 399 yen £1,930???

399 yen is £1.93 :?
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: Johnny Mac on November 15, 2005, 06:03:00 PM
Quote from: indysmith
Quote from: Johnny Mac
Is 399 yen £1,930???

399 yen is £1.93 :?


 :?  :? Well thats a cheap LP!
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: Ratrod on November 15, 2005, 07:53:23 PM
Quote from: Johnny Mac
Look at this baby! http://www.espguitars.co.jp/navigator/index.html

Some Warpigs in this would be cool!

Is 399 yen £1,930???


Thanks for that link. I'm drooling over this:

(http://www.espguitars.co.jp/navigator/images/nex300ltd_bk.jpg)
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: dave_mc on November 16, 2005, 11:32:10 AM
Quote from: Ratrod
Thanks for that link. I'm drooling over this:

(http://www.espguitars.co.jp/navigator/images/nex300ltd_bk.jpg)


you know, it's really surprising that gibson sued guys like esp, with original models like that being made by them... :roll:   :twisted:
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: Ratrod on November 16, 2005, 01:30:09 PM
If Gibson made them like that for a decent price, there would be no reason to make copies.
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: willo on November 16, 2005, 01:38:47 PM
I know this is heading completely off topic - and I'm looking forward to seeing your Orville, steve :wink:  - but I can't work out how to convert the Yen prices to pounds on that ESP website...either it comes out really cheap, like £1.93, or at the same price, if not more than, a normal Gibson, i.e. £1,930. Am i right in saying that the ESP's cost around £2000?
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: Bob Johnson on November 16, 2005, 02:18:16 PM
just put "exchange rate calculator" into Google and you'll have a shed load of them.
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: willo on November 16, 2005, 02:23:53 PM
Quote from: Bob Johnson
just put "exchange rate calculator" into Google and you'll have a shed load of them.


yeah, ive been doing that....the thing thats confusing me is where the '.' is present in the price - and if it is substitutable for a ',' - in other words, is 399.000 Yen the same as 399,000 Yen?
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: Bob Johnson on November 16, 2005, 02:29:57 PM
I see what you mean. It's got to be £1930 then hasn't it?
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: willo on November 16, 2005, 02:34:59 PM
Quote from: Bob Johnson
I see what you mean. It's got to be £1930 then hasn't it?


I guess so!  :o
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: dave_mc on November 16, 2005, 03:09:36 PM
Quote from: Ratrod
If Gibson made them like that for a decent price, there would be no reason to make copies.


i know, i'm not defending gibson (i was pissed when they sued prs)
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: chrisola on November 16, 2005, 03:17:32 PM
www.xe.com for currency stuff.

ESPs are pretty high end and expensive...

also they may not ship outside Japan... theres no laws in japan concerning 'copying' designs, hence they can rip off gibsons designs, and sell a better product (well, allegedly), for cheaper (in the old days)  to the same market(which is how all the law suits came about afaik).

Law suits mean = cant do this outside japan anymore, hence the UK\USA esp catalogues are a fair bit smaller than the Japan one!
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: xlr8 on November 16, 2005, 03:58:52 PM
'Orville' and 'Orville by Gibson' are both made in Japan to very high standards, the difference being that 'Orville' has Japanese electrical components and 'Orville by Gibson' has the very same American electrical components as their US counterparts.

Navigators are the very best of ESPs range and are made to a quality that that Gibsons custom shop can only dream of. £2000 for a Navigator is cheap.
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: Ratrod on November 16, 2005, 04:45:27 PM
It's too bad ESP doesn't make the EXP anymore and those Ken Lawrence EXP's aren't affordable either. Brands like Orville and Grecko or impossible to find here in Holland, I'd have to import one myself.
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: Johnny Mac on November 16, 2005, 06:07:07 PM
http://www.espguitars.co.jp/edwards/index.html

This ones cheaper and looks as good at 94,000 yen. At £2000 for the other one you could get a Gibson LP Custom. How much would you charge for a LP of these specs Bob?
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: xlr8 on November 16, 2005, 09:34:00 PM
Quote from: Johnny Mac
http://www.espguitars.co.jp/edwards/index.html

This ones cheaper and looks as good at 94,000 yen. At £2000 for the other one you could get a Gibson LP Custom. How much would you charge for a LP of these specs Bob?



Missing the point really, Edwards are ESPs 'Epiphone' and Navigator are way beyond Gibsons custom shop.
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: indysmith on November 16, 2005, 10:46:49 PM
Quote from: xlr8
Missing the point really, Edwards are ESPs 'Epiphone' and Navigator are way beyond Gibsons custom shop.


Sorry but why do we want 'replica's made by ESP (specifically) anyways?
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: xlr8 on November 16, 2005, 10:53:57 PM
Quote from: indysmith
Quote from: xlr8
Missing the point really, Edwards are ESPs 'Epiphone' and Navigator are way beyond Gibsons custom shop.


Sorry but why do we want 'replica's made by ESP (specifically) anyways?


Don't know that you do, but as I spend a lot of time in Japan I thought  I'd be helpful and point out the differences in the Models and specifications for those that are interested in Japanese 'replicas'. As Mr. Caine would say 'not a lot of people know that'  :D
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: willo on November 16, 2005, 11:16:26 PM
So how good are the quality of parts on, say, on Edwards LP? If you replaced the pickups with BKPs or your pickups of choice, how close would it be to a full on Gibbo?
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: indysmith on November 16, 2005, 11:18:36 PM
Hehe, alright then man! I'm quite interested in the MIJ guitars lately. I thought i knew a fair bit about guitars, but until the other day i'd never even heard of Orville, Greco etc... I'll be doing some research 8)
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: xlr8 on November 16, 2005, 11:54:50 PM
Edwards are about on par with the Epiphone Elitist range, just a little better. The advantage they have over Gibson is quaity control. Gibsons can be a bit hit and miss, a good one is great but most of the standards you'll try just don't cut it for the price their asking.

I have never yet seen a poorly made Japanese Greco, Burny, Tokai, Orville, Edwards, and a whole host of other japanese market only guitars.  A good used Burny or Greco can be had for around £300 - £350, put some BKPs in it and you'll have a guitar that feels, plays and sounds like it cost twice as much.


Here's a Burny I picked up for a friend a little while ago

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/xlr8shun/GAS/P1010019.jpg)

Not a great pic but you get the idea



Cost £350 into the UK with all customs paid.
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: willo on November 17, 2005, 12:56:58 AM
Thanks for that.

So how do you get hold of them? Do you pick them up in Japan yourself, or through a company? Know of any companies that could do such a job?
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: HJM on November 17, 2005, 08:16:51 AM
I wish you would all stop tempting me with this thread...I'd really like an Edwards Les Paul....
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: xlr8 on November 17, 2005, 08:53:16 AM
Quote from: willo
Thanks for that.

So how do you get hold of them? Do you pick them up in Japan yourself, or through a company? Know of any companies that could do such a job?



I normally pick them up whilst I'm there. There are companies who bring them in but obvioosly they have to make a profit so they're a little more expensive.

http://www.japanguitars.co.uk/


Has some good information plus guitars for sale.
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: Ratrod on November 17, 2005, 10:18:33 AM
Quote from: HJM
I wish you would all stop tempting me with this thread...I'd really like an Edwards Les Paul....


It drives me mad too. Those Edwards Explorers look great.
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: Bob Johnson on November 17, 2005, 10:23:03 AM
Quote from: Johnny Mac
http://www.espguitars.co.jp/edwards/index.html
This ones cheaper and looks as good at 94,000 yen. At £2000 for the other one you could get a Gibson LP Custom. How much would you charge for a LP of these specs Bob?


Johnny, I'm assuming this question is aimed at me.

I don't really like making copies although from time to time I do. A LP replica of similar spec would cost around £1800 from me.
Frankly I really find it hard to understand why, when there are so many really cool custom guitars out there, that copies have the allure that they obviously do. I guess if I thought differently I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now.

This was made by Dan McPherson a luthier friend of mine. If you're looking for a Les Paul Look-a-like but with some individuality, this is what you call quality.

http://www.dm-guitars.co.uk/custom_made/custom_MacLester.htm
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: Skybone on November 17, 2005, 11:01:15 AM
Japanese guitar shops that ship internationally (just for Hayden! ;) ).

Guitargai: http://www.guitargai.com/html_folder/homepage.html

Ishibashi: http://www.excite.co.jp/world/english/web/body/?wb_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.excite.co.jp%2Fworld%2Fenglish%2Fweb%2Fbody%2F%3Fwb_url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ishibashi.co.jp%252Fwebshop%252Fguitar%252Findex.htm%26wb_lp%3DJAEN%26wb_dis%3D2&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2

Katana: http://www.katanaguitars.com/main/top.html

The Japanese Yahoo auction site is great, but you either need to know how to read Japanese, or rely on Babel Fish at Alta Vista.

A great knowledge site about MIJ guitars is: http://www.tokairegistry.com, and their forum is pretty good too (http://www.tokaiforum.com). Another good MIJ site is http://www.therathole.org/guitars/guitars.html, which mainly focuses on older Aria/Aria Pro II/MIJ Westone/and other Matsumoku makes. Pretty informative.

Then there's good old Ibanez dedicated sites (their late 70's/early 80's MIJ guitars were excellent, and really sought after now). A couple of informative sites are:

http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/
http://www.speakeasy.org/~sven/site/ Artist AM - Small bodied semi's.
http://www.ivc.ca/misc/artist/ Ibanez Artist - Solid Body
http://216.250.245.172/vintagepage/index.html Ibanez Vintage Pages - Great info site!
http://www.ibanezrules.com/ Ibanez Rules

There's loads more as well, but most of these (except the Ibanez ones) have info on most of the Japanese manufacturer's, body styles, serial no. issues etc, etc, and they tend to be quite a fanatical, but highly knowledgable bunch. ;)
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: chrisola on November 17, 2005, 02:38:57 PM
(http://www.espguitars.co.jp/artist/alexi_laiho/eal120sawtooth.jpg)

i want one!!!

$925 inc case + USA shipping.. basically Alexi Laiho from Children Of Bodoms sig model 8)

That + a black warpig = ohh yeah!

edwards guitars look v. nice!
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: dave_mc on November 17, 2005, 02:58:17 PM
^are you sure you wouldn't rather have the ESP model? only an extra £2000, and you get the joy of an emg HZ as well...   :roll:
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: chrisola on November 17, 2005, 03:06:08 PM
hehe £2k extra plus a huge waiting time...

Laiho uses the HZ pickups, hence his poorish live sound  :x
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: big steve on November 17, 2005, 06:01:30 PM
hehe look at what i've started here
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: Johnny Mac on November 17, 2005, 07:53:36 PM
I'd be into getting one of those Burnys second hand! How much would you charge me for a black one with an ebony fret board?  :P
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: Johnny Mac on November 17, 2005, 07:54:23 PM
Quote from: Bob Johnson
Quote from: Johnny Mac
http://www.espguitars.co.jp/edwards/index.html
This ones cheaper and looks as good at 94,000 yen. At £2000 for the other one you could get a Gibson LP Custom. How much would you charge for a LP of these specs Bob?


Johnny, I'm assuming this question is aimed at me.

I don't really like making copies although from time to time I do. A LP replica of similar spec would cost around £1800 from me.
Frankly I really find it hard to understand why, when there are so many really cool custom guitars out there, that copies have the allure that they obviously do. I guess if I thought differently I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now.

This was made by Dan McPherson a luthier friend of mine. If you're looking for a Les Paul Look-a-like but with some individuality, this is what you call quality.

http://www.dm-guitars.co.uk/custom_made/custom_MacLester.htm


Ok thanks Bob!  :D
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: Bob Johnson on November 17, 2005, 08:11:40 PM
J M, What did you think of the DM guitar I linked in my last post?
Title: orville MIJ anyone?
Post by: dave_mc on November 18, 2005, 11:21:31 AM
Quote from: big steve
hehe look at what i've started here


i think it's fair to say that your thread has been well and truly hijacked...  :twisted: