Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Prawnik on December 01, 2009, 05:19:34 PM
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Everybody else seems to regard them as the sort of holy grail, but I can't seem to get a sound that I like from any cabinet loaded with Celestion V30 speakers. To me, they sound thin, tinky, no bass, no balls. The amp has to do all the work and even then they sound "generic."
When I say things like this, guitarists look at me like I have grown hooves or have denounced peanut butter as a demonic conspiracy. Not only that, but you see V30 speakers in enough cabinets from the most expensive to el-cheapo, and the speakers themselves are not cheap, so a lot of somebodies somewhere must like them.
So where am I going wrong?
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There is no right or wrong when it comes to personal taste mate. :wink:
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I was having this discussion with JPF the other day in his place of work.
In all my experience playing live, ive played through countless cabs, from custom 2x12s to Harley Benton 4x12's to Mesa Oversize cabs.
My favourite has actually always been the marshall 1960A with G12T-75's, and my least favourite cabs are fully loaded with V30's. I don't know why, its like you say, they just seem hard work.
Although now i use a mix of V30 and T-75, i still prefer that to the fully loaded V30 4x12.
I just got some Classic Lead 80's, and mixed them with my V30's, and I was playing today, A/B'ing with my V30+T-75 cab, and i prefer my V30 + T-75 cab to the one with the V30s and CL80s.
I might try the CL80 + T75 mix tomorrow, failing that, i might my classic leads and go back to what i had in the first place.
anyway. yeah, It seems like a bunch of somebodys must dig them. I don't mind them, just not by themselves.
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You are right.
Peanut butter is a demonic conspiracy and V30s are not the holy grail.
They are just average speakers to me.
I think a lot of people around here think the same.
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I don't like them either, for exactly the reasons you state above.
The original marketing from Celestion was that the V30 were a high power ceramic speaker that sounded identical to the Celestion Blue!! This was at a time when Celestion weren't making alnico speakers.....
One of the reasons I think that they have become ubiquitous is that it is cheaper to order large quantities of one type of speaker rather than smaller quantities of a variety of speakers. If you happen to have a 40-50 W 1 x 12 combo in your range then the V30 will be the only "prestige" Celestion speaker that will be up to the job, so it makes financial sense to use it in all your amps.
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what are those taydens you had made that you were telling me about Frank? did you say they are good alternative to V30's or am i totally forgetting something?
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Paul at Tayden makes a V30-style speaker (the Brit 60) on request from several customers (not us I might add). This has worked in our favour though as it uses the same motor unit as a G12H, which we are very much interested in.
We had a Brit 60 to test but sold it before I had a chance to do anything with it. Interestingly when Paul has sent samples out to people they prefer his other speakers rather than the Brit 60....
We've had some speakers made with a 2" VC with a larger magnet than the V30 with curvilinear cones a la JBL D130. These sound very good, with a much better bass response than a genuine JBL (probably due to differences in the magnetic circuit).
We've also got a Retro 55 to try which also has a 2" VC. I'm quite interested in this speker but haven't got around to trying yet (I think you can understand why!!).
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On the other hand, I find they record really well.
YMMV.
(Playing br00talz)
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I had a long discussion with a speaker guy when I bought my Eminence Wizard - his view was that Celestion had cornered the speaker market but that the production from China was not as good as the original UK-sourced stuff.
Trouble is that it is quite hard to source any alternatives - not many places stock them and it can just be easier to plump for a Celestion and the V30 tends to be the obvious 1 x 12" choice...
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There is no right or wrong when it comes to personal taste mate. :wink:
+1
I like v30s for certain tones, but for other things they're horrible.
If you happen to have a 40-50 W 1 x 12 combo in your range then the V30 will be the only "prestige" Celestion speaker that will be up to the job, so it makes financial sense to use it in all your amps.
that's probably it. :lol: Probably the same reason why so many guitars come loaded with Duncan JBs, even if they're not suited to the style of music at which the guitar is clearly aimed.
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peanut butter as a demonic conspiracy
How dare you!
And as above, it's personal taste. I was lucky enough for Martin from MJW to fit speakers to my style of playing. Maybe its time for new speakers?
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Everybody else seems to regard them as the sort of holy grail, but I can't seem to get a sound that I like from any cabinet loaded with Celestion V30 speakers. To me, they sound thin, tinky, no bass, no balls. The amp has to do all the work and even then they sound "generic."
FWIW, when I bought my blues junior, I A/B tested the stock black tolex model (Eminence Fender Design speaker - doesn't sound great in the bjr) and the Texas Red "Limited edition" (lol) that shipped with a V30. An interesting moment. My conclusion was that neither was the right speaker, so I bought the black tolex (100€ cheaper - about the price of a V30), and swapped the stock speaker for an Eminence legend GB 12/8 (think of a tighter and more powerful greenback) I found for 59€ at thomann. Saved 40€ - more if I manage to sell the stock speaker, and couldn't be happier - anyway, I just HATED this red tolex :lol:
When I say things like this, guitarists look at me like I have grown hooves or have denounced peanut butter as a demonic conspiracy.
Peanut butter is definitly a demonic conspiracy :twisted:
Not only that, but you see V30 speakers in enough cabinets from the most expensive to el-cheapo, and the speakers themselves are not cheap, so a lot of somebodies somewhere must like them.
So where am I going wrong?
Mmm... What makes you think that trusting your own ears should be "wrong" ?
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I had a long discussion with a speaker guy when I bought my Eminence Wizard - his view was that Celestion had cornered the speaker market but that the production from China was not as good as the original UK-sourced stuff.
Trouble is that it is quite hard to source any alternatives - not many places stock them and it can just be easier to plump for a Celestion and the V30 tends to be the obvious 1 x 12" choice...
I've had a chat with a few people about this too. Certainly on the standard ranges they are using Chinese-made cones. The Heritage and Alnicos are supposed to be using UK-made cones. Whether these are still made in the UK is uncertain.
Take the Alnico Blue for example. This is fitted in the VOX AC30CC which is made in China. Celestion baskets are stamped in China, the Alnico magnets are made in China, and I think that the motor units are too. Now do you think it makes good business sense to ship all the Chinese-made parts for a blue to the UK for it be assembled and then ship it back to China so that it can be installed in a VOX AC30 and then shipped Worldwide? Don't think you need an MBA to answer this one......
Celestion obviously have a very dominant market position, and have a lot of the OEM market sewn up: people want Celestions in there AC30s Marshalls etc.
I have to admit that, optimistic power handling notwithstanding, I've generally had good results with Eminence speakers.
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the vintage 30 isn't at all bad, but you can get better speakers for the same wedge
IMO the v30 can be cool mixed with other drivers though - v30 and g12h30 is classic for example
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never been a fan of V30's, much prefer G12-65's or greenys
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In my opinion its a very midrangey speaker = so for music that likes drive in that range, or to balance out a bright speaker it works great - it also goes fab with the G12H30 as it can help balance out the bottom E boom those speakers have.
But obviously not all music demands that type of eq range. Its horse for courses, but personally I prefer the CL80, the Eminence GB 12/8 (if only they still made the 16 ohm version!) or the Eminence Texas Heat.
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On the other hand, I find they record really well.
YMMV.
(Playing br00talz)
Axually, I have used V30s for recording as well (they were all I had) and I find you are right.
I don't play much br0Otalz, but they stay in their place and not muddying up the mix.
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Well I love my V30s, so nyah! :P
Seriously though, the previous G12T-75s I had in the cab had real problems cutting through the mix and were overly bassy/boomy, possibly exagerated by the fact our second guitarist had G12T-75s in his 2x12 as well, and so things kinda blended together into a bit of a mush. After I switched to V30s I was far happier with my sound, and the overall sound of the band felt bigger as well, which was a great bonus.
Anyway, I prefer a brighter/middier guitar sound than the current metal fad of low and boomy. if I wanted low and boomy I'd switch to playing bass guitar. ;)
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Maybe if I had a 2x12" with one V30 and one Greenback or Eminence V12 I would get the hype.
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As others have said, it's a matter of taste, but also the rest of your gear.
I loved the V30s in my Mesa 2x12" when I had a Mesa Recto head, but once I got my Engl Savage I went right off them. Combined with the Engl I struggled to tame a really "hard" top end.
Eventually I bought an Engl 4x12, swapped the stock V60s for a pair of Classic Lead 80s & a pair of G12K-100s & haven't looked back since...
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I like the V30 in my 2x12 mixed with a G12H or Greenback.
In the 4x12 I wonder if an X-Pattern would do as good.
Alternatively I am quite interested in Scumback speakers, quite some guys whose opinion I value swear by them.
http://www.scumbackspeakers.com/
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Can you give me a report on the Scumbacks if/when you get the chance?
They sound more or less like what I am looking for, although getting a set into Ukraine and having to pay off Customs would be a right (expensive) pain. No, I am 169% sure noone here sells them.
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Can you give me a report on the Scumbacks if/when you get the chance?
They sound more or less like what I am looking for, although getting a set into Ukraine and having to pay off Customs would be a right (expensive) pain. No, I am 169% sure noone here sells them.
Well I know Pete Thorn is using the M75s and they become more and more popular in the boutique world. I think you'll get more information about these if you register and post on thegearpage or hugeracksinc.
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I had a Scumback for a time. It was a quality item, but I didn't much care for it. I was still experimenting with speakers at the time and didn't really know what my preference was. Its clear to me now I like the heavy magnet tone, the Scumback I had was a medium weight magnet, and not my preference. However it did sound very 'creamy' and was very well made.
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have had them in a few cabs..don't own any now just don't like them